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fourth season Stargate SG-1 (spoilers)
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Posted by: murgatroyd

Warning: I'm using spoiler tags for the benefit of anyone who wanders into this opening message by mistake. If you aren't caught up to episode 4 x 05 "Divide and Conquer", be warned, untagged spoilers may follow this initial post.

I'm more or less a a newcomer to Stargate, having seen an episode here and an episode there over the last few years; my husband had been watching it more than I was.

Lately we've been making an effort to watch the new episodes on Fridays, and we've been watching big gulps of third and fourth season, especially on Monday nights when they have it all night long, and all the stuff that we used to watch on Monday has been moved elsewhere. TiVo catches some of the episodes due to Season Pass problems, and sometimes we play buffer leapfrog, watching the 7:00 PM episode via TiVo, catching the 8:00 PM episode (not recorded due to padding) out of the buffer, then watching via TiVo again at 9:00 PM.

So forgive me, because after a while all these episodes start to blur into one big super-sized lump o' Stargate. :)

The episode I want to talk about (I think) was "Divide and Conquer" (4 x 05) which epguides describes like this:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
quote:
71. Divide and Conquer
gs: JR Bourne (Martouf/Lantash) Vanessa Angel (Anise/Freya) Teryl Rothery (Dr. Fraiser) Andrew Jackson (Per'sus) Kirsten Robek (Lt. Astor)

During a meeting with the Tok'ra high council, Major Graham of the SGC goes berserk, firing uncontrollably upon the Tok'ra before taking his own life. The SGC is stunned to discover that Graham is a Zatarc, the victim of Goa'uld mind control technology. According to Anise, its victims are subconsciously programmed to kill, their recollection of the procedure covered by false memories. Anyone who has come into contact with the Goa'uld could well be a Zatarc - and wholly unaware of the fact. Through the use of an experimental testing device designed by the Tok'ra, Anise sets out to determine who, at the SGC, has been programmed. The test proves successful in uncovering a second Zatarc - Lieutenant Astor, a former teammate of Graham's, who also goes berserk, shooting up the SGC before turning the gun on herself. But subsequent testing uncovers false memories in two more members of the SGC: Colonel Jack O'Neill and Major Samantha Carter.

b: 28-Jul-2000 pc: 405 w: Tor Alexander Valenza d: Martin Wood

NOTE: Syndication airdate: October 8, 2001.

In the end of this episode, if I've got the right one, Jack (during some of the testing) reveals something that ordinarily he wouldn't say out loud.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
He says (can't remember the exact quote, rats) something to the effect that he cares about Carter 'a lot more than anyone would believe' or something like that. Anyhow, lots.

And I had to wonder -- what is it about certain writers that they can't leave subtext as subtext? Why is it that they have to destroy any ambiguity, drag stuff out into the cold light of day, rub it in the faces of the few viewers who might not have thought about it before, etc. etc.?

Folks, actors exist so you don't have to write this lame stuff -- you let the implication lurk in the story, maybe talk about it in story conference, let the directors whisper sweet nothings into the actors' ears and say, "try playing this as if...."

Is this yet another guy thing, where somebody felt that if we didn't all get told, nobody would notice? Or what?

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Maybe it's more obvious watching 'backwards', when you've seen some of the fifth season episodes where Carter is wearing her heart on her sleeve, but it stands to reason that if Jack did feel something for her, he would never own up to it, first, because he's a reserved kinda guy and it would go against the grain, and second, because he's a good commander and it's bad for morale for a commander to play favorites with one member of his team over the other. So why did they feel it necessary to deliberately rip off the mask and destroy all doubt? I don't get it.

It's also on my mind because it ties into several of the Happy Hour threads we've been talking about this month. So. Discuss.

Jan

Posted by: Zixar

I've only recently started watching SG-1 by buying the 1st two seasons on DVD. I didn't want to start in the middle of the other seasons, but I just keep stacking them up on the Tivo.

Thank God that the numb-skulled evil that is NewTrek™ hasn't spread to all televised sci-fi. It looked very bleak there during the late 80s/early 90s.

I'm amazed at how much SG-1 simply does not suck. I credit a wonderful team of savvy writers and talented cast with making the show a treat instead of a chore to sit through. I haven't been this happy with SFtv since Babylon 5.

I love the way the writers pay attention to continuity and believability. If there's an obvious way out of the problem, the characters most always bring it up first. No more "whee! Let's remodulate the shield frequencies and overambiate the klongdorker, even though it wasn't designed to do that. Take me about 20 seconds. Trek r00lz!"

Posted by: Thom

The Zatarc machine could only detect if what the person was saying did not match what was in their mind/brain.

When it detected that Jack and Sam weren't being fully forthcoming, whatever it was that they were hiding was still unknown.

It was only by stating it explicitly, and having the machine confirm nothing was hidden, that they could pass the test. Thus, it had to be explicitly stated during this episode. And even then, what Jack said was that he cared for Carter more that he should. Or perhaps it was more than he probably should. Which still gives a lot of leeway as to strength of feeling.

And after four years, it was probably time to acknowledge it openly, if only for a brief moment during one episode.

- Thom

Posted by: JYoung

besides, it sets up for a great bit in "Window of Opportunity"..... ;)
But I have to agree with Thom, it wasn't that O'Neil said that he was truly and deeply in love with Carter, just that he cared for her more than he should. A bit more ambigious, I think....

Besides, SG-1 certainly has smarter writing than what passes for Star Trek these days....

Posted by: MikeHerbst

quote:
besides, it sets up for a great bit in "Window of Opportunity".....

That episode killed me! The whole "Goundhog Day"/No Consequences montage had me in stiches!

Posted by: rbird

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
besides, it sets up for a great bit in "Window of Opportunity"..... ;)

Best. Episode. Ever!!!!

Bob

Posted by: murgatroyd

My problem with the scene is persnickety, I grant you, but here it is. It is forced out of them.

Contrast the scene in Babylon 5 (I think the episode is "Ceremonies of Light and Dark") where they have the Minbari rebirth ceremony that asks the participants to reveal something they've never told anyone before.

None of the things the characters reveal is really a surprise unless the audience has not been paying attention. The thing that makes the scene moving is that the the characters, in telling the hidden stuff to someone else, can no longer hide these things from themselves. They choose what they get to reveal about themselves.

So the sequence of characters and their revelations was like a series of flares being set off in the night, one illumination of character after another. Very moving.

Of course I have been known to like subtle stuff. ;)

Anyhow, it was at that moment that I kicked myself for not having recorded B5 all along. My exact thought: Whoa! You'd never see this on Star Trek.

There are moments here and there in the newer Trek shows that are good, but for the most part, all the guys doing the various New Treks have never understood what made the old Star Trek good.

There are things about SG-1 I don't care for, but for the most part I do like the cast and the characters. They're doing a good solid job. I thought the writing in that particular episode did them all a disservice.

P.S. I must have missed "Window of Opportunity" that day -- saw the other two episodes on either side of it. :(

Jan

Posted by: Ereth

Ah, but see, for those of us who were watching when the show originally aired, the fun came in watching Jack and Sam squirm as they tried to find a way out of admitting what we all knew. Like your B5 scene, they had to admit it, and they hadn't, even to themselves. It's there all along, its in the ice cavern with the second gate, it's in the episodes with alternate universes, it's in looks between them, but it's never, ever mentioned, even in an "I wish..." sort of way. And here they were forced to admit it openly, and to know they had to admit it, but STILL couldn't act on it.

Posted by: murgatroyd

Yeah, sometimes it's very interesting to come into a show during third season and then watch it all the way around to end and then start from the beginning and back again to where you started (I got into Xena that way), but this may be a case where it is better to start at the beginning and go through in order. :(

Oh well, maybe someday I'll get to see SG-1 in order.

Anybody who wants to discuss other fourth-season stuff, carry on....

Jan

Posted by: JYoung

you missed "Window of Opportunity"?????? :eek: :eek:

For that Jan, you must buy another TiVo and set it up with just an AR/WL for "Stargate" until you see that episode.

Did you also miss the 3rd season episode "A Hundred Days"?

I'm psyched that the local Fox affiliate is finally getting around to showing Wormhole X-Treme this weekend. I've heard good things about this one...

Posted by: whoknows55

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung

I'm psyched that the local Fox affiliate is finally getting around to showing Wormhole X-Treme this weekend. I've heard good things about this one...

I hope that is sarcasm I did not get.

Posted by: murgatroyd

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
you missed "Window of Opportunity"?????? :eek: :eek:

For that Jan, you must buy another TiVo and set it up with just an AR/WL for "Stargate" until you see that episode.

Did you also miss the 3rd season episode "A Hundred Days"?

I'm hoping for a 2nd TiVo for my birthday. We'll see.

Yes, I saw "A Hundred Days", which is part of the reason I was annoyed by the stuff I posted in the beginning of this thread. If you see what I mean.

What usually happens is that my SP for Stargate picks up the 7 PM and 9 PM episodes (we lose 8 PM due to padding). If we come home in time, we watch 8 PM out of the buffer. Window was one of the episodes that got skipped. Either that or we had a conflict. :(

Jan

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by whoknows55
I hope that is sarcasm I did not get.

Noooo, why would I be sarcastic about this?
:confused:

Posted by: murgatroyd

On the other hand, the scenes with Jack and Sam in "Beneath the Surface", which I'm watching right now, are better written, I think, and better played.

Posted by: whoknows55

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Noooo, why would I be sarcastic about this?
:confused:

I am a fan of Saturday morning cartoons and I have many of them on my wishlists(Jackie Chan Adventures,Batman, Justice League, X-men etc..) and i think Wormhole extreme is one of the worst I have seen. But "that's just my opinion I could be wrong"

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by whoknows55
I am a fan of Saturday morning cartoons and I have many of them on my wishlists(Jackie Chan Adventures,Batman, Justice League, X-men etc..) and i think Wormhole extreme is one of the worst I have seen. But "that's just my opinion I could be wrong"

Ok, I had to figure this out but now that I have, I realize that you must be refering to the animated Stargate: Infinity series which most agree isn't very good.
"Wormhole X-treme" refers to a 5th season episode of the live action SG-1 series. For some reason, the syndicators seem to have held this one back for a while.

BTW, the Justice League is appearing on Saturday's episode of Static Shock (sans Superman, I think)