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TiVo article in the NY Post business section - Monday March 10, 2003
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Posted by: ElVee

TiVoLution Takedown

Word of Broadcast TV's Demise is much exaggerated

http://www.nypost.com/business/70273.htm

Posted by: Mr. Righteeo

In a word, distorted and shallow.

Sorry, that's 2 words. :D

It seems as though he made up his mind what he wanted to say, and didn't bother to educate himself about the product or service before writing about it.

Posted by: Cary B

All I have to say is, I wish that reporters would actually research a product before they write the article.

Posted by: Jabberer

And somehow you thought the New York post would actually have some information in it? ;)

I love his self-named law of "If you have to reach behind the TV to hook the thing up, the product's a loser" This must explain why VCRs and then DVDs have been such marketing disasters. As well has other home theater options such as amps, speakers, etc. After all, that big black boxy thing that shows the magic images has scary little holes in the back that we'd never want to touch - they might bite!

And, did you guys know that "Tivo's big selling point is supposedly that it lets you cut out all the commercials from your favorite shows"? I didn't. Here, I've been using Tivos for years and always thought that the main selling point was time shifting my programs so I never have to worry about missing them. Silly me.

And the whole Tae-bo/Billy Blanks thing is just surreal. Somehow, I suspect the ghost of Salvador Dali was perched on this guys shoulder when he wrote those 3 paragraphs...

Anyway, after reading the entire article, I've got to wonder if this guy has some specific axe to grind (like, maybe he invested when the stock was at it's high?) or he somehow has some connection to the broadcast industry (maybe his brother-in-law cleans offices over at Turner?). This article didn't just come out of nowhere - this guy has a serious dislike for Tivo specifically and is using the New York Post to vent. 'Course, that's kinda like using the Weekly World News to vent, so ultimately, I guess no harm done. :)

Posted by: ElVee

At the bottom of the page it says:

Please send e-mail to:

cbyron@nypost.com

Posted by: MikeCG

What gets me, aside from the patent inaccuracy about Tivo and the "back of the box" BS, is his contention that the public doesn't want Tivo-type timeshifting, and the NY Times article that AOL is secretly developing a "Tivo-killer." The NYT article is now a few posts below this one, but in case the two get separated, the URL is http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/10/t...ll&position=top

Let's see, either Tivo dies because no one wants it or because so many people want what it offers, there is too much competition. Hmmmmm.

Posted by: LinOz

Haven't read the article, but from the posts here it seems that the reporter's views may reflect the ignorance of mainstream America on the whole DVR phenomenon.

I'm amazed how my patient explanations fall on the deaf ears of my friends. It seems that the only way to see the light for those who are not adventuresome is to have a friend or someone to install it for them so they can see first-hand what DVRs are all about.

Sometimes, too, I confess to having thoughts that if people are so dumb that they can't see it, they deserve to be deprived. O dear, I must get my attitude straightened out!

Posted by: PrimeRisk

Well, the article is load of horse-pucky, but most of the wall street analysits talk out of the same orifice that the horse-pucky comes from. I did send him a polite e-mail suggesting that he try a TiVo out so he could figure out what the TiVo corporation does before dooming it to oblivion. If we can all encourage him to try one out maybe he will. Then he'll be another TiVo addict and won't be able to deny it.

Posted by: LooseWiring

I think the article was DEAD ON accurate.

Oh, he/she got so many details about what TiVo is all about all wrong that I am sure it is infuriating.

But, I believe, the general thrust of the story was that TiVo's marketing is so poorly done that the misconceptions in the article are COMMON.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE TiVo and I honestly couldn't imagine someone who has actually used one(properly) that didn't feel the same.

But the problem is that TiVo has yet to make even a minor dent in the consumer electronics business because it is so heavily misunderstood.

And that is why most companies have a Marketing department. Their job is to get the average person(read: Little-Brain) to not only know what a TiVo is but convince them that they can't live without it.

I have heard many testimonials from people who didn't know what Tivo was or how it worked and had no interest in owning one UNTIL someone came over and hooked the unit up for them and almost forced them to use it.

I understand TiVo isn't in the best shape financially and may consider marketing to be a non-essential expenditure but I believe they are mistaken.

Posted by: steuert

Half way through the article the author asks himself "What is TiVo and what does it do?" and answers, "Frankly I don't know." Then he proceeds to write an entire column on the subject. Among many omissions, he nowhere mentions DTiVo, which IMO may yet become the saviour of the company. Apparently, at the NY Post ignorance is not only an excuse, but most likely a prerequisite for their columnists when discussing anything technical.

However, he does make the point, simple as it is, that TiVo's financial results have yet to reflect the merits of the product. I don't know if this is a result of the public's apathy and ignorance, or of TiVo's inept advertising and marketing strategy, but I hope this reporter turns out to be as ignorant about the company's future as he is about how its product operates.

Posted by: AirShark

Wow.....just.......WOW, what an ignorant jerk that reporter is. Unbelievable.

Posted by: BBQ Chicken

quote:
Originally posted by LooseWiring
I think the article was DEAD ON accurate.

Oh, he/she got so many details about what TiVo is all about all wrong that I am sure it is infuriating.

But, I believe, the general thrust of the story was that TiVo's marketing is so poorly done that the misconceptions in the article are COMMON.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE TiVo and I honestly couldn't imagine someone who has actually used one(properly) that didn't feel the same.

But the problem is that TiVo has yet to make even a minor dent in the consumer electronics business because it is so heavily misunderstood.

And that is why most companies have a Marketing department. Their job is to get the average person(read: Little-Brain) to not only know what a TiVo is but convince them that they can't live without it.

I have heard many testimonials from people who didn't know what Tivo was or how it worked and had no interest in owning one UNTIL someone came over and hooked the unit up for them and almost forced them to use it.

I understand TiVo isn't in the best shape financially and may consider marketing to be a non-essential expenditure but I believe they are mistaken.

I agree

Posted by: JStoneRail

I agree with the article that set up is complex and without a clear understanding of the benefits only early adapter technophiles will give Tivo a try. Even though I have four PVRs and pay $26 a month to Tivo, my current system works with analog Comcast cable. I won't try digital cable based on comments in this Forum. When Comcast goes High Definition my PVR's may go into the closet due to incompatibility [probably designed that way by Comcast]. I would also agree with the article that the long term future of Tivo is clouded at best.

Posted by: sneagle

I am sad to think that this great product & company may be doomed. Though I agree the reporter is an idiot.

Another path that Tivo should investigate is cable boxes with Tivo built in, much the way they have DirecTivo. This could be the way of the future. Then the cable companies can charge the home user $10/mo or more for the box and give half to Tivo. Keep in mind that cable companies already charge for cable boxes.

And, by the way, I tried to explain Tivo to my wife before we got my HDVR2. She thought I was wasting my, er, her money. One day after I set it up, she was in love with it. Now we almost never watch live TV and even the kids watch recorded shows.

Posted by: LooseWiring

The above poster is on the right track in my opinion.

The integration with Cable will not only bring us a better/more efficient piece of hardware(2 tuners!) but the customers will get the service that only a local CableCo could provide.

I myself recently asked for another cable box and not only did a guy come out to install it but went through a whole tutorial on how to use it despite the fact that I already owned another Explorer 2100.

Personally, I am hoping Tivo can get together with SciAtl and hammer out a deal to put Tivo software on the Explorer 8000's.

Posted by: freddyf

quote:
Originally posted by LooseWiring
I think the article was DEAD ON accurate.

Oh, he/she got so many details about what TiVo is all about all wrong that I am sure it is infuriating.

I've read many articles over the years by this reporter, while he wrote for MSNBC, the Observer, Red Herring. One thing he knows how to do is to read a company's financial statements and spot problems. He's usually correct when he says a company is in trouble.

Posted by: Ekims

This reminds me of the old adage. Stand silent and be thought a fool, open your mouth and remove all doubt. This guy is an idiot! I challenge anyone that has misgivings about the TiVo to try one out for one week. My wife hates anything electronic. She has already said that the TiVo gos with her in the event of a divorce (my only reason for staying...jk)..

Posted by: MighTiVo

Perhaps TiVo should change their tag line from
TiVo, TV your way!
to
TiVo, low consumer demand, high consumer satisfaction!

Posted by: Ekims

At one time Microsoft was considering giving away XBOX's to ensure a viable market for their games. All platform game companies have considered this at one time or another. Has TiVo corp.? Perhaps a whole new game plan, A free TiVo for one year. At the end of the year, consumer has a the option to keep for a fee or return. How many do you think would return it? I believe the return crowd would be small. How many people would try this option? my answer... A bunch!

Posted by: meridian

The guy is pretty clueless -- sounds like he's never even tried the product!

He raises some salient points about marketing, though which really do need to be addressed IMO.

Posted by: sneagle

If you read the NY Times article, AOL's product is very different than Tivo. Rather that the user recording the shows for his/her use later, the cable companies would keep copies. Then the user could watch 'on-demand' a show.

The advantage for the cable company:
- They control what can be recorded. If Hollywood says No, then it's not available
- They can control whether or not you can skip ads
- They can control for how long a show is available

Disadvantage for the user
- Limited availability. How much video can the cable company really stream to users?
- Loss of control
- Can't save favorites
- Can't upgrade to a larger drive!

I'll keep my Tivo and continue to shun AOL.

Posted by: island1

LooseWiring

"Personally, I am hoping Tivo can get together with SciAtl and hammer out a deal to put Tivo software on the Explorer 8000's."

I don't see TIVO tanking, LooseWiring's scenario is the basic direction I see it playing out also. Wont make me rich but I just bought another 50 shares. Thats why they call it gambling.

Posted by: raitchison

Is it any more obvious that this guy doesn't have a clue about how TiVo works??

Still, I see glaring problems with the way TiVo it marketed.

I recently was interested in a TiVo, in fact the reason I was leaning towards TiVo was due to a commercial I saw MORE THAN THREE YEARS AGO. I haven't seen any commercials in recent memory.

I also wanted to "try out" the TiVo to get an idea of what it was like before I plunked down the cash, I couldn't find a dealer ANYWHERE (tried 4 or 5) that has a TiVo up and running for customers to play with. How exactly is a grey box sitting on a shelf not hooked up to anything supposed to sell units?

Going with the $299 lifetime fee is a good thing, since effectively all of TiVos revenue comes from service they need to make sure they get enough of it.

Another idea that could make some revenue and add value, what about a "Featured Commercial" in the TiVo showcase where commercials will actually be fed to your box (probably only practrical for broadband customers). Advertisers can pay TiVo to feed the commercials and customers can watch commercials they want to when they want to. Theres definitely a market for this kind of thing, there used to be a commercial site (adcritic.com) that ended up closing because they couldn't handle the demand (bandwidth). I believe they were going to re-open as a pay site.

Posted by: chh1

Well I just sent him the link for this thread. Hope he could learn something from this forum.

Posted by: CrispyCritter

quote:
Originally posted by freddyf
I've read many articles over the years by this reporter, while he wrote for MSNBC, the Observer, Red Herring. One thing he knows how to do is to read a company's financial statements and spot problems. He's usually correct when he says a company is in trouble.

You must be kidding! He says
To grow this or any business, you have to promote it. But the company is saving its cash by slashing marketing outlays. And that, in turn, helps explain why revenues look to have peaked in the October quarter at just a hair under $25 million, and have actually declined by 8 percent during the three months since then.
Service income went up by 8% to 20% ( depending on what you're looking at). But the amount of rebates for the hardware went up by 30%, and those directly reduce revenue. So simply because TiVo had a good quarter and had to send out lots of rebates (or rather, account for the rebates now), they end up showing less revenue now. All that rebate money will come back to TiVo in the form of increased subscription income in the upcoming months. (Note that the better the quarter TiVo had in terms of getting new customers, the worse their revenue for the quarter would be!)

TiVo is in a rather strange position accounting-wise given they're a service company that at the moment is selling hardware. But for an experienced financial person to make that kind of blunder is ridiculous. The key for future of TiVo is subscriber growth, and that went up by 21% during just the last quarter.

Posted by: TivoPip

I may be preaching to the converted, but:

The guy must think his readers and the average consumer are really stupid.

His message of lost marketing opportunities and financial woes are lost in misinformation.

"... a thought or two regarding what this Tivo company actually is, and what it supposedly does. And that's just it: I frankly don't know. "

You'd have thought a reporter could read.

"Tivo's big selling point is supposedly that it lets you cut out all the commercials from your favorite shows. But can't you do the same thing with a VCR already? "

The commercial skip controversy would have more to do with Replay.

"So what if VCRs are hard to program. A Krups coffeemaker is hard to program, too, but if you want a cup of coffee badly enough, you'll figure out how to get the job done. "

Duh.

"Like, what's with that name? Does Tivo say "VCR for Dummies" to you? "

It does to me. However, probably not to most people. The lack of marketing and public awareness IS a problem.

"Well, to me it says, Billy Blanks, ..."
"Eventually, of course, I realized that Tae-bo and Tivo are not the same thing."

He'll never make it as a comedian.

"But when I went to the Tivo Web site to get the lowdown on what this product really is, I saw soon enough why I was confused: Even Tivo doesn't seem to know what it is. "

Makes me wonder if he actually went to the website, seems perfectly clear to me.

"With Tivo, you can, I think, somehow watch a TV show before it's on. Or rearrange things so that the end comes at the beginning."

Maybe I ought to add the time travel feature to the recommendations page?

" Or watch only the commercials - or only the shows - or edit out all the boring parts. In fact, as I understand it, you may even choose to go for the gold and program an entire lifetime of viewing pleasure for yourself, featuring nothing but hour after hour of King Tae-Bo getting loose. "

Now he's getting close...

"Click that "Order Now" button and you may be embarking on a land war in Asia."

Sounds like he recorded Wargames and played it a few too many times.

"For starters, Tivo violates that infallible rule of consumer marketing known as Byron's Law ("If you have to reach behind the TV to hook the thing up, the product's a loser")."

So the PC, VCR, DVD, Cable/Satellite box and HiFi are all losers?

"And when it comes to hooking up Tivo, the phone company has to get involved - and you may even need to move your TV into a different room or run black cabling all over the house."

No.

"In addition, you may need a "wireless telephone jack," which will set you back another $69.95."

He may have had a quick look at this forum then. This contradicts his previous statement about cabling.

"And if it turns out that you need some "right and left RCA composite cabling," well, too bad - because the stuff is on back-order, and none of what you've bought may work with it"

There are so many stores stocking the cables he's talking about that I don't know where to start...

He could have made his points (and they are valid) without being such an ass. :rolleyes:

Posted by: JuryDuty

quote:
Originally posted by LooseWiring
I think the article was DEAD ON accurate.

Oh, he/she got so many details about what TiVo is all about all wrong that I am sure it is infuriating.

But, I believe, the general thrust of the story was that TiVo's marketing is so poorly done that the misconceptions in the article are COMMON.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE TiVo and I honestly couldn't imagine someone who has actually used one(properly) that didn't feel the same.

But the problem is that TiVo has yet to make even a minor dent in the consumer electronics business because it is so heavily misunderstood.

And that is why most companies have a Marketing department. Their job is to get the average person(read: Little-Brain) to not only know what a TiVo is but convince them that they can't live without it.

I have heard many testimonials from people who didn't know what Tivo was or how it worked and had no interest in owning one UNTIL someone came over and hooked the unit up for them and almost forced them to use it.

I understand TiVo isn't in the best shape financially and may consider marketing to be a non-essential expenditure but I believe they are mistaken.

I wish this weren't the case, but I think you're dead-on right about this. The problem is, there isn't even a very stroung "buzz" out there about what TiVo is. Sure, you SHOW someone TiVo and they're sold. But you ask them what it is and they say either they don't know, or it's a commercial skipping device. The public needs to be educated. And most certainly this reporter does.

Posted by: hanumang

I dunno people, I'm not sure a 30 sec commercial can really do TiVo justice.

Yes, public awareness needs to improved, but I think TiVo - in the way that it shapes your life - is analogous to the personal computer.

How exactly, do you encapsulate what a PC can do for you in 30 sec? For most people in the 80's, it probably meant making the inevitable comparison with typewriters. And, hence, TiVo gets compared to VCRs.

Also, there has to be some inherent desire in the public-at-large to timeshift. Since most people, IMHO, view TV as fairly disposable (watch it when you've got time to kill), timeshifting doesn't seem like such an enticing proposal. To put it another way, TV just isn't that deep for most folks.

To revisit the PC analogy, I'd say PC's only became ubiquitous once the internet grew popular. Once people could chat, email, write blogs, surf for pr0n, they decided they need to get a computer (at least I've seen this first hand).

Once people come to appreciate the benefits of timeshifting and it costs less to do so, TiVo should be an attractive option. Or so we should hope.

Posted by: Writer@Large

quote:
Originally posted by raitchison
Still, I see glaring problems with the way TiVo it marketed.

I recently was interested in a TiVo, in fact the reason I was leaning towards TiVo was due to a commercial I saw MORE THAN THREE YEARS AGO. I haven't seen any commercials in recent memory.

I also wanted to "try out" the TiVo to get an idea of what it was like before I plunked down the cash, I couldn't find a dealer ANYWHERE (tried 4 or 5) that has a TiVo up and running for customers to play with.

I had a similar experience when I recently took the TiVo plunge. I haven't seen a TiVo ad in years. In fact, the only reason I even thought of TiVo when my VCR went wonky was *not* because of TiVo advertising, but because news reports about TiVo being like stealing from the networks were still in the back of my mind, and that dumb comment Kellner made about "having tolerance for those who go to the bathroom." Honestly, it was in a report on that comment that I got the clearest description of what a TiVo *was*, and hey, if it pissed off a network exec so much, I had to look into it!

And, when I finally wanted to try it out, I went to ABC Warehouse (they didn't carry TiVo, and their ReplayTV wasn't hooked up), Best Buy, and Circuit City, and no one had a running unit. I was finally told at the second Best Buy I went to that they didn't have one up and running because the store didn't want to subscribe to the service that they would never use [which was IMO a valid point, even though more TiVo sales would mean more sales for them, and a demonstration would sell more units]. I also found the TiVo website horribly inefficient in answering questions, and I agree with the NYPost article author on one point: the website doesn't do a very good job of explaining what a DVR is, how it works, and what seperates a DVR from TiVo service.

If a friend over at the Internet Infidels hadn't pointed me here, I might not have a TiVo today!

--W@L

Posted by: pv

quote:
Originally posted by JuryDuty
The problem is, there isn't even a very stroung "buzz" out there about what TiVo is.

On your planet, there aren't fairly constant references to tivo on just about every program in existence?

Frankly, I think TV ads is the last place tivo should advertise, since its subscriber base is largely people who hate TV ads. With all the word-of-mouth that's out there, why spend money on ads? PV

Posted by: smak

Maybe my math is wrong, but didn't Tivo sell 20% of all Tivo's in use in the last quarter?

In 3+ years they sold 500,000 and in 3 months they sold 120,000!

Somebody seems to be getting some info on Tivo from somewhere.

-smak-

Posted by: kendee1

Folks, Let's face it....How many Tivos have been sold with word of mouth. I was one of the first people I know to have Tivo. After a few personal demonstrations when folks come over for a game or something, or typical coffee talk, no :30 second commerical would ever do Tivo justice!

Posted by: PeteyBoy23

quote:
Originally posted by Jabberer
I love his self-named law of "If you have to reach behind the TV to hook the thing up, the product's a loser" This must explain why VCRs and then DVDs have been such marketing disasters. As well has other home theater options such as amps, speakers, etc. After all, that big black boxy thing that shows the magic images has scary little holes in the back that we'd never want to touch - they might bite!

My sincerest apologies... this was so funny, I had to steal it in my response to this guy. I gave the guy my $.02 as well. Let's see if he responds.

Posted by: trainman

Hmm, I'm surprised no one has yet suggested that there's a conspiracy at work here, since the New York Post and the Fox network have common ownership in the form of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.

Posted by: sabowin

quote:
Originally posted by JStoneRail
I agree with the article that set up is complex

I don't. I know next to nothing about setting up AV (or computer) equipment, but with the manual, I had it figured out in no time, ran the guided setup and played around with it a bit. Then we discovered that we couldn't watch videos (or play the PS2), and my husband (also non-technical) figured out a way to reconfigure it, and now it all works just fine.

sabowin

Posted by: smak

I just e-mailed him and told him there's a reason he works for the Post.

-smak-

Posted by: FzyLgic

Even my mother - who has never been able to get that flashing 12:00 off her VCR - was able to set up her TiVo, activate and pay for her lifetime sub, and get SPs organized in a Saturday. Hard to setup it ain't.

Posted by: phone1

Sorry, but statements like this:

quote:
And if it turns out that you need some "right and left RCA composite cabling," well, too bad - because the stuff is on back-order, and none of what you've bought may work with it.

which is just total BS, totally destroy his credibility.

Is this guy so stupid that he can't match up red, white and yellow RCA cables? Is he so misinformed that he doesn't know that EVERY TiVo ever shipped came with these or that they are available at Wal-Mart for $2.99?

:rolleyes:

Posted by: rogo

Certainly, the fact that the DVD player is the single fastest-growing CE product ever and requires you to go to the back of the TV belies this guy's lack o intellect. This doesn't even mention game players, VCRs, cable television, satellite television, etc.

Who is this idiot Byron?

So much of the rest of it was equivalently moronic. For a financial analyst, perhaps he could've discerned that there has been a massive slowing of the cash-burn rate?

And 1000 other things....

Posted by: bookrats

So....

Do all NY Post articles come across as if they've been written by belligerent drunks?

Just curious.

Posted by: PrimeRisk

quote:
Originally posted by pv
On your planet, there aren't fairly constant references to tivo on just about every program in existence?

Frankly, I think TV ads is the last place tivo should advertise, since its subscriber base is largely people who hate TV ads. With all the word-of-mouth that's out there, why spend money on ads? PV

Isn't that kind of a selling point "Hey, if you'd rather be watching your favorite program rather than waiting for this stupid commercial to get over, buy a TiVo and skip the stuff you don't want to see" Followed by 20 seconds of the fingernails on chalkboard sound.

Posted by: ourdoc

I also wrote an email to him. I pointed out that his law, was not only flawed, but very flawed. Including things into his "Byron's Law", you would have to not only include DVD, VCR, and A/V systems, but also things like Xbox, PS2, (and all the game machines), but also things like, satellite, cable, and gee.. even TV, because you have to go behind the TV to plug in the TV power cord. Kinda makes his "law" really flawed!:rolleyes:

Maybe he's a vegetarian and will be doing a story about how bad beef tastes these days....

Posted by: kitsap

Well yeah, that has got to be the stupidest law ever ... I mean, if you don't plug anything into the back of the TV, you aren't going to see much on it!!!