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Six Feet Under - 3/16 (SPOILERS)
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Posted by: DLiquid

So what did you guys think of this episode? I thought it was pretty boring. The Nate/Lisa, David/Keith, and Ruth/Kathy Bates storylines are just not that interesting to me. I did like the "cool art teacher" thing with Claire, and also Rico's struggles with being a people person. This is weird for me, because I usually think Claire and Rico are so predictable and boring. They're still predictable, but less boring than the soon to collapse horrible relationships of Nate and David.

Brenda, where are you? I was hating Brenda last season and was glad when she drove off, but now I want her to come back to shake things up. I hate the Lisa character even more than Brenda. I think Nate needs to get a new hairdo, stop pleasuring himself in his car, and try to find a better woman. :D

It looks like earlier speculation about Ruth hooking up with Kathy Bates was right on target.

Posted by: WinBear

Nate: Are we supposed to take this "self-pleasure" thing as an indication that he'd rather do it alone than with Lisa?

David: The gay men's chorus was ok, but I guess I'm spoiled by the Turtle Creek Chorale here in Dallas. They are easily 225 members and I can't imagine LA's chorus being that much smaller.

Keith: If he's controlling carbs, shouldn't we, or at least David, be seeing some hormonal effects from that? There's a huge range of things that can happen when insulin and other hormones are being regulated somewhat.

Ruth: I was really expecting them to get caught shoplifting right away, but I liked that Nate noticed that Mom had on new lipstick.

Claire: The new teacher is interesting and I like that he's been focussing on Claire just for us. :-) I also liked the way she handled the two-timing boyfriend, but kind of expected her to be more free about the whole arrangement.

Who is Phil? Is that Claire's gay friend at school? I noticed him in the credits this week as played by "J.P. Pitoc" who was one of the stars of 1999's gay comedy of errors, "Trick!"

Posted by: zaknafein

I agree with DLiquid, that last two episodes really haven't been interesting at all.

Posted by: Spire

On a side note, I believe this episode marked the debut of sallypnut's Harry-Shearer-lookalike friend (photo) playing the chorus director.

Posted by: woyton

quote:
Originally posted by WinBear
Who is Phil? ... I noticed him in the credits this week as played by "J.P. Pitoc" who was one of the stars of 1999's gay comedy of errors, "Trick!"

JP Pitoc is the crematorium boyfriend, not Claire's gay school chum.

Posted by: brahamt

Ben Foster was billed as Russell. Was that the gay friend?

Posted by: DLiquid

I liked the chorus director. He was funny.

So the art school friend is gay? He obviously has a crush on Claire.

Posted by: ClutchBrake

Claire has said that Russell (Ben Foster) is gay. I don't think we have heard Russell say he is gay.

I found Kathy Bates' character and Nate to be interesting in this episode. Everyone else sucked.

Posted by: Spire

quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
Claire has said that Russell (Ben Foster) is gay. I don't think we have heard Russell say he is gay.

I was thinking the same thing. He's probably not gay, and he and Claire will eventually hook up.

Posted by: firkat

The Nate masterbation thing stumped me. What is going on with that? I am a new viewer this season (since TiVo). Am I missing something?

Posted by: DLiquid

quote:
Originally posted by firkat
The Nate masterbation thing stumped me. What is going on with that? I am a new viewer this season (since TiVo). Am I missing something?

It's just one of the many hints we've been getting that Nate isn't satisfied or happy in his relationship with Lisa, no matter how many times he tells people how happy they are together and how great the relationship is. It's like him sitting on the couch at mom's house watching TV, telling Lisa he's working when he really just doesn't want to be around her. But now he can't even do that in peace, 'cause she'll come in and bust him. Having to pull over on the side of the road was pretty drastic, it's like now that she lives at his workplace he has no escape from her other than a random Brenda fantasy in his car.

Posted by: sallypnut

quote:
Originally posted by Spire
On a side note, I believe this episode marked the debut of sallypnut's Harry-Shearer-lookalike friend (photo) playing the chorus director.

So many links! Yes, that was my friend Jason. He's on another episode in a couple of weeks. It was fun to see him. :)

Posted by: hawkamer

I agree, this show is getting boring. Obviously, they are trying to gently lead up to the reintroduction of Brenda, but come on, throw us a bone once in a while! The current supporting cast isn't doing much for me, either. They need to get back to the Six Feet Under basics: focus on the main characters! Also, they need more interesting dead people. Remember the biker? That was a great episode, especially how the story line affected Nate's character. None of that yet this year. Just a lot of whining from Rico.

Posted by: Haps

quote:
Originally posted by sallypnut
So many links! Yes, that was my friend Jason. He's on another episode in a couple of weeks. It was fun to see him. :)

As soona s I saw him I thought wow he looks like Harry Shearer. Then on second look he's skinnier but there is still a big resemblance.

Posted by: KRS

I liked the alternate reality they showed when David and Keith arrived at the pool. All the horrified reactions and the guy puking when he saw them was great, and showed David's mind working overtime. Other than the first ten minutes of the season premiere, it seems like it has been awhile since they showed a moment like that. I always loved seeing those scenes, like when David would (internally) scream at the psycho chick who was stalking him by going to lots of funerals. Hopefully there will be more moments like that this season.

I also found the Nate self pleasure moment to be bizarre. Was it spur of the moment or premeditated? Why would he do that in his car in broad daylight with the windows down when he could get caught so easily? Obviously it is a sign of his not being "into it" (as Rico said), but why not use a bathroom or something? I was half expecting Brenda to show up and catch him (that would have been great)!

Also, I thought the Ruth "asking out" Kathy Bates thing to be weird. Ruth is so conservative - why would she be so immediately ready to jump into a lesbian relationship? Her character would likely need to go that route more gradually than that (IMHO).

Posted by: DLiquid

quote:
Originally posted by KRS
Also, I thought the Ruth "asking out" Kathy Bates thing to be weird. Ruth is so conservative - why would she be so immediately ready to jump into a lesbian relationship? Her character would likely need to go that route more gradually than that (IMHO).

And has the Kathy Bates character given any indication that she's a lesbian or that she's interested in Ruth in that way? I missed it if she did.

Posted by: KRS

quote:
And has the Kathy Bates character given any indication that she's a lesbian or that she's interested in Ruth in that way?

Good point - maybe that's how it will play out. Ruth will get all into the idea and then get spurned.

I did like Kathy's "Not the hair on your head" comment.

Whatever happened to the apartment that Nate Sr. owned? I think they cleaned that out and dropped the lease...but if not, Nate Jr. could go there and get his groove on (perhaps that's another thing his dad did there).

Posted by: firkat

quote:
Originally posted by KRS
I liked the alternate reality they showed when David and Keith arrived at the pool. All the horrified reactions and the guy puking when he saw them was great, and showed David's mind working overtime.

I absolutely agree with KRS. I thought that technique was fantastic and right up there with Ed's Active Dream Episode.

As for Nate's masterbation scene, I just did not get it. When American Beauty opened with Kevin Spacey in the shower, it made sense. It gave you a peak into his inner self. With Nate, though, it is so weird to have this guy pulled over on the side of the road. I have to agree with DLiquid's point about how Nate is being edged out of any private space. That theme seems to follow with them moving back in with Ruth. Something is going to explode soon with that.

Posted by: KRS

quote:
As for Nate's masterbation scene, I just did not get it. When American Beauty opened with Kevin Spacey in the shower, it made sense. It gave you a peak into his inner self. With Nate, though, it is so weird to have this guy pulled over on the side of the road.

Exactly - why the side of the road? Get a room! I found it odd - but perhaps the writers figured that this weirdness would really make the point that Nate was not into Lisa in a physical way. His conversation with Rico seemed to underscore this point - he only half heartedly said that his wife was "hot."

I guess that just goes along with Rico being too emotional to deal with the mourners while Nate is so detached that it doesn't even phase him.

Posted by: RexTrout

I think the masturbation thing, TV watching (and lying about it) are as someone else said just more indications that there are problems w/Lisa and Nate. In the previous episode, Lisa and Nate were adamant that they "never" argue, but there was clear evidence that they do.

I'm not disappointed in this season. Acting is great, stories are building. I can't wait to see what happens.

Posted by: meridian

quote:
Originally posted by sallypnut
So many links! Yes, that was my friend Jason. He's on another episode in a couple of weeks. It was fun to see him. :)

Such a small world!

Sally, point Jason to www.musicandlight.com

It is a tribute to my late partner, Bruce Detrick. Bruce cast Jason in a workshop of his musical "Crosstown Bus" 20 years ago.

Posted by: David Platt

quote:
Originally posted by RexTrout
I think the masturbation thing, TV watching (and lying about it) are as someone else said just more indications that there are problems w/Lisa and Nate.

I think that it also might be the beginnings of Nate realizing that he is more like Brenda than he ever realized. Their big fight stemmed from her kinky sexual exploration, and now he's starting the same things himself.

Posted by: Yellowfin

quote:
Originally posted by DPlatt
I think that it also might be the beginnings of Nate realizing that he is more like Brenda than he ever realized. Their big fight stemmed from her kinky sexual exploration, and now he's starting the same things himself.

Since when does a little masturbation, even if done in an unusual time or place, qualify as "kinky sexual exploration"?

I just hope he had some tissues in the car....

JK

Posted by: David Platt

quote:
Originally posted by Yellowfin
Since when does a little masturbation, even if done in an unusual time or place, qualify as "kinky sexual exploration"?

I'd say that public masturbation, knowing there's a possibility of getting caught, is starting down that road.

Posted by: KRS

Here's hoping that this "sexual exploration" doesn't lead to a necrophelia storyline!

Posted by: ClutchBrake

quote:
Originally posted by KRS
Here's hoping that this "sexual exploration" doesn't lead to a necrophelia storyline!

I think it was Alan Ball who said in an interview (before SFU premiered) that as soon as they had to resort to a necrophelia storyline the show would be over. ;)

Posted by: ReenieS

I'm still waiting to see if the first few episodes are a part of Nate's anesthesia. There have been some 'blips' in the continuity to suggest that maybe this 'lifeline' is still not the real one. I've had this feeling since the second episode, but I'm not sure how it would affect the other characters' storylines if the 'marriage to Lisa' story is only a dream.

Posted by: Spire

quote:
Originally posted by ReenieS
Is it all an anesthesia dream?

I have a feeling we're all going to find out this Sunday.

Posted by: firkat

quote:
Originally posted by ReenieS
I'm still waiting to see if the first few episodes are a part of Nate's anesthesia. There have been some 'blips' in the continuity to suggest that maybe this 'lifeline' is still not the real one. I've had this feeling since the second episode, but I'm not sure how it would affect the other characters' storylines if the 'marriage to Lisa' story is only a dream.

Wow! Good point. That would be very interesting if it went that way.

Posted by: Spire

quote:
Originally posted by firkat
That would be very interesting if it went that way.

Also, in the series finale in 2006, Nate Sr. wakes up from a "really bizarre dream", and decides to lay off the weed a bit.

Oh, and, throw in something about an autistic kid and a snow globe, for good measure.

Posted by: KRS

quote:
Spire
Also, in the series finale in 2006, Nate Sr. wakes up from a "really bizarre dream", and decides to lay off the weed a bit.

Heh heh - good one Spire.

ReenieS - what continuity "blips" are you speaking of exactly? I can't think of any myself, but the surreal party scenes from the 3.23 episode do look suspicious.

Posted by: jradosh

Nope, I don't buy the 'just a dream' deal. Why would Nate be dreaming up shoplifting adventures for mom, art school stuff for sis and a banal vacation for little bro? Doesn't seem too likely...

Posted by: Yellowfin

quote:
Originally posted by DPlatt
I'd say that public masturbation, knowing there's a possibility of getting caught, is starting down that road.

Remember we live in a country where:

* Drive In theatres (those that remain), parking lots, and country roads serve as convenient places for sex in cars.

* Hookers turn tricks on the streets, in alleys, and in local parks.

* The porn industry has a thriving "sex in public places" sector.

* Woody Allen made a movie dealing with the risk of discovery of sex in public places in 1971 ("Everything you always wanted to know about sex...")

* A pair of NYC radio jocks finally got thrown off the air for inciting a couple to have sex in St. Patricks Catherdral, during Mass. (These same DJs had countless of bits where people had sex in public places; this was just too much and finally put them over the edge.)

* Hookers patrol truck stops to keep the wheels of commerce grinning.

In short, sex in public places is, alas, neither new nor uncommon. I may not like it but I won't deny that it exists in abundance. (Then again, I may like it. But that's for another forum I suspect.) We are not starting down that road, were well along it. Thankfully not as far as ancient Greece or Rome....

I'm not condoning any of the above, just noting them.

My comments are intended to simply illustrate that Nate's behavior MAY (i.e. "possibly" not "certainly") in fact be an undistorted reflection of some of our friends, neighbors, countrymen, and selves.

Just my 2�.

JK

Posted by: ReenieS

quote:
Originally posted by KRS
Heh heh - good one Spire.

ReenieS - what continuity "blips" are you speaking of exactly? I can't think of any myself, but the surreal party scenes from the 3.23 episode do look suspicious.

I'm mainly referring to the "deja vu" incidences when Nate does somewhat of a double-take now and again when Lisa says something, and sometimes it happens when a audio phrase repeats just briefly like he's heard it before. I didn't see one in the last episode, but sometimes they are only half a second. I had to pause and rewind TIVO a couple of times. Sometimes you can see the same "lisa" scene with Brenda overlayed onto it. There were a couple of Nate, Sr. scenes that were like that with words repeated by David or Rico.

Weird note: remember the green goop that Nate, Sr. was eating in the cafe? the "fenugreek"? and then later Lisa said she was eating fenugreek to help her milk supply? I looked it up, and fenugreek IS an herb to help nursing mothers. I had never heard of it before.

I still think there are too many surreal things about this marriage storyline that don't ring true.

Posted by: KRS

Hmmm...interesting observation Reenie. Since the anesthesia dream sequence took place before some of those things happened, it may well be a valid theory. It does seem weird to have him dreaming all the plotlines for the rest of his family, though, so who knows.

Some of the things Lisa says to Nate are pretty naggy, but there are times where she is right or deserves a little more sympathy.

Like when she asked Nate to pick some stuff up at the store for the baby and was like "Are you going to try or are you going to do it?" Definately a b1tchy tone, but on the other hand, Nate is a bit of a flake and could easily forget.

And when she quit her job and they had to move out - you can completely see why Nate was annoyed that he wasn't consulted, but on the other hand, he knew that Lisa's boss was riding her pretty hard. He would have done the same thing (probably with more colorful language) much earlier.

On the other hand, her attitude when Nate did the laundry with Tide instead of Dreft was pretty out of control. Something's Got To Give!

Posted by: CraigEagle

I found it interesting that in the Anesthesia Dream Sequence where he was with Lisa it was with a baby but in the scene with Brenda it was a toddler. Maybe they will both happen?
- Craig

Posted by: BobB

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, I Tivoed the series and just this week had a chance to watch all three new episodes, but it strikes me that the point of the season opener, underscored by the "flashbacks" since then, was to show that:

A. All possibilities are equally real (a traditional sci-fi theme, though rarely so well conveyed as in that opening sequence);

B. Nate can only have consciousness of those in which he continues to exist;

and that therefore

C. Of those possible outcomes in which he survives the operation, it is (perhaps) arbitrary that he (and therefore we) get to see what happens in this one, while all the others are happening simultaneously in parallel universes.

If this has come up before, could someone point me to the thread please?

Posted by: DLiquid

BobB, I totally agree with you, but this isn't Star Trek or other sci fi, so it's hard to imagine them trying to snap us over to one of the alternate timelines/realities/universes. And IIRC even in Star Trek they never let those alternate universes last for multiple episodes.

Still, I'm hoping they do something with the deja vu stuff from the season opener. If they don't ever mention it again, I'll feel kind of like it was just a gimmick for that one episode.

Here's an idea. Is it possible Nate's reality could change but that David, Claire, and Ruth's reality could remain the same? Nate could be asking them, "Don't you remember I was married to Lisa?" And they would look at him like his brain surgery was causing delusions. "Oh Nate, don't you remember Lisa died in a car accident? You're married to Brenda, dear." LOL! I hope they do something crazy like that.

Posted by: mrboo

An admittedly slow story arc going on here. I think it's just a lot of character stuff--interesting, especially if you've ever experienced any of the situations they're going through.

I for one don't buy any of the theories about dream sequences (too Dallas) or lesbian love affairs (too Murphy Brown or Ally McBeal). Those kinds of things are "cheats" imho. I give Alan Ball and the writers much more credit than that.

I liked how Clair laid it out to her dopey boyfriend. How many of us wished we had the guts to just say what we felt and risk losing a partner? Good for her.

Ruth and her friend. It seemed they were trying to draw some parallels between their friendship and that of 2 teenage girls. There was talk about age and the clothes and the shoplifting.

Nate. I actually like his relationship with Lisa. She's good for him. He's just having buyer's remorse. And all I could think about while watching the masturbating scene was how the poor actor was trying to muster all the concentration it must have took to pull your pud (albeit simulated) in front of an entire crew in the daytime. And what guy would make his "mess" in a car? yeck.

David/Keith. The illusion of straight Matthew St. whatever, a straight actor, playing a gay guy is slowly wearing off for me. I'm just not buying it (and what about that gut when he had his shirt off? Talk about carb abuse...). The other actor works perfectly for me. Even his less than perfect voice when he sings--I read that the actor played the emcee in Cabaret on Broadway so he must have chops.

I liked how Frederico had to backpedal a little when Nate spoke about his wife being "hot". Ha.