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Farscape vs. Babylon 5
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Posted by: rickertk

At the end of the month, Sci-Fi is running both of these, from the beginning, in a strip format. (i.e. roughly 1 episode a weekday). Both of these are series that I haven't seen, but have heard enough that I'd be interested, and for which it's been my understanding that there's enough long-term story arcs that watching from the beginning is at least preferable.
The problem is that I don't think I have the time to keep up with both. I'm sure that each show has it's supporters and detractors. But rather than (or perhaps in addition to) a discussion of the merits and flaws of each show, I'm looking for other things that could help me decide. Is one or the other more likely to be run through again sometime in the near future? Was either of these shows a little rough getting started, such that I would need a longer time frame of episodes to judge how I like it, or the opposite, i.e., I would know in an episode or two if I'd like it or hate it?

Keith

Posted by: lachacg

I recommend them both, archive one to tape.

Bab5 doesn't start cooking until way into the first season. I think Farscape catches you a bit sooner, the character interaction is better and more interesting IMHO.

You can skip the fifth/last season of Bab 5. I wish I did.

Posted by: ronsch

Make the time to watch both even if you have to dump something else.

B5 probably started a little slower than Farscape. SCIFI has run B5 all the way through several times so there may not be many more complete cycles left.

Posted by: ronsch

quote:
Originally posted by lachacg
You can skip the fifth/last season of Bab 5. I wish I did.

There are some very good episodes in S5, just a lot of so-so ones with one particularly annoying story arc.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Farscape has better episodes, B5 has a bvetter overall storyline (which, as has been mentioned, only becomes visible towards the end of the first season, although in subtle ways it is there from the beginning).

Posted by: Big_Daddy

Despite multiple efforts, I could never get interested in B5 - and this was watching various episodes in both first and second season. I felt the characters were unidimensional and acting amazingly bad.

Loved FS. Stories more engaging, characters much more complex. IMHO, one of the best scifi shows EVER.

Others may feel the opposite; everyone has personal likes and dislikes. Agree with the archive idea.

Posted by: Chris Roberts

Babylon 5 is better in my opinion. I like both shows and the acting/characters are good in both, but B5 had a better story arc overall with more mini-arcs going on and more depth to its main ones. Plus...B5 got to finish its story. So if you want to see the beginning, middle, and end of a story you should watch B5. :p

Posted by: Vesper

Babylon 5 by far. I like Farscape, but it often delves far too deeply into "silly" and "goofy" territory. They try to introduce a humor element sometimes that just doesn't work for me. Babylon 5 is 5 year arc goodness. First season is good, 2-4 are fantastic, 5 is soso.

Posted by: JMikeD

Yeah, my thoughts, also. Liked both of them a lot, but Farscape got a bit goofy too often for my taste. And I agree that some of the actors on B5 were a bit wooden, but on the other hand, Ben Browder goes over the top way too frequently.

Overall, I'd pick B5 because of the story arc. It didn't pull fast ones like the unveiling of new powers for the sake of one episode, as in the next to the last Farscape.

But I did watch and enjoy both.

Posted by: Sinuralan

I'd definitely go with Babylon 5. While Farscape was great, Babylon 5 was a full story told for the most part as it was intended, and is very consistent and deep in its details, characters and foreshadowing.

Some people don't like the acting. I don't really understand it but I can't help them. There were a few guest characters who I thought were terrible now and then, and I never liked jeffrey sinclair, but he's gone after the first season and is bearable before then.

babylon 5 will definitely take some patience if you want to see it from the beginning, as the first season gets rolling a bit slowly. but it's absolutely worth it.

Posted by: jchan

I personally like Farscape. It's like watching a pulp sci-fi book come to life with all the weirdness. B5 while it has a good over-reaching storyline and some decent alien stuff going on..well I can't explain it...good, yet boring....

Basically Farscape = action
B5 = drama

Posted by: MikeSh

I always liked B5 and really enjoyed it when SciFi played it all in order a couple years ago. Even The Wife liked it. I watched FS for 2 or 3 seasons then lost interest, it lost me. Like some here have said it got too silly at times. Although I have watched the last few episodes and have the finale Tivo'd for later enjoyment. If they do run it complete I'll Tivo it and try to watch the whole series. B5 gets my vote as the better of the 2.

MikeS.

Posted by: brahamt

I loved both of these shows, and would recommend both. However, if you are short on time, and may need to skip or miss epsiodes, Farscape is better suited for that. In B5, there were times that if you missed episodes, you got a little lost.

In my humble opinion, these are Science Fictions Number 1 and 1a series, though I give the slightest of all edges to Farscape.

If you need on-line reference information on either series, especially episode guides and other backstory here are two sites you can view:

Lurkers Guide to Babylon 5

Farscape World

Both are excellent sites, but the Lurkers guide is extremely comprehensive.

Again, try both if you can.

Posted by: jmoak

I have to lean towards Bab5, but both are excellent.

To tell you the truth, I own the first season dvd boxed set of both. Worth every penny!:)

Posted by: VinceA

I also lean toward Babylon 5 but I like both series. B5 gets my money in the way of DVD sets (have S1 and S2 is on pre-order). Maybe I'll get Farscape sets when ADV releases them in lower priced collections

Posted by: laria

Drive space is cheap these days. Go get a big one before 3/31 and record both. :)

Kidding aside, they are both very good shows and I would try to find some way to watch both if you can. Babylon 5 has some rough points in the first and last seasons but overall it's great. Farscape had some extremely rough points at the beginning of this last season and it was enough to make me stop watching. The 3 episodes before the long break, and then all the episodes from January on built up on my Tivo, but I started watching them again last week for lack of anything better to watch and I must have stopped watching right when it got good again.

We have the Babylon 5 first season DVD, and the second one soon, as it's coming out in April. There's also some of the first season of Farscape on DVD I think (I don't think there's an entire boxed set). So there's always those options too, if you have Netflix or something.

Posted by: Hunter Green

My vote is for Babylon 5. It was a story being told by a storyteller, not a hodgepodge of bits that didn't fit together, or were made up as they went. It respected its audience and pursued the implications of the things in the world and the story instead of handwaving over them.

That being said, I didn't see that much Farscape. I watched about the first third of the first season, then I "dropped in" now and then to see if things had changed interestingly, and I never liked what I saw. But maybe there was something there I never caught. I can certainly imagine someone who only saw selected episodes of B5 (though they'd have to be very carefully selected) could come to the same conclusion about it.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Well, the first half of the first season of B5 was almost unmitigated crap; it took years for a friend to convince me to give it another try, and he only succeeded because he had the whole series to date (this was the end of Season 3) on tape, and I was supposed to be writing my dissertation but wasn't in the mood, so I had tons of time on my hand.
There was a brief moment (end of third, beginning of fourth) when B5 was almost half as good as Farscape in terms of production values, acting, and dialog. But episode for episode, Farscape blows B5 away.

That having been said, B5 has a far greater cumulative impact, as the sheer scope of the story sinks in. And JMS did a pretty good job of overcoming the obstacles of low budget, B-level cast, and cheesy dialog. Overall, I'd have to call it pretty much a draw.

(And Farscape is far more cohesive than you give it credit for; while it doesn't have the single compelling overall arc of B5, things do unfold, often very cleverly, over time.)

Posted by: hughvh

A lot people here already mentioned that the story line is good, but I what I like the most is the story telling. The first season is slow because its laying down the ground work the next three seasons. Setting up the political background, show how the B5 universe works, etc. There is also a lot of foreshadowing too in the first season.

I also like the character development throughout the show. One character (through a chain of events and decisions) starts off good, turns evil, and redeems himself at the end. I've never see character development like that in any Sci-Fi show.

I believe that B5 is the best written Sci-Fi show out there. You will not be disappointed. (If you can make through the first seven shows. Do not miss the eight episode, "And a Flag Full of Stars". That's the one that will hook you.)

Posted by: Big_Daddy

quote:
Originally posted by JMikeD

Overall, I'd pick B5 because of the story arc. It didn't pull fast ones like the unveiling of new powers for the sake of one episode, as in the next to the last Farscape.

I'm not qualified to make more definitive comparisons (not a B5 fan), but I'm not sure this is a valid criticism. Sure, they did reveal a lot more about Sikozu in the next to last episode, but I think this should be viewed in context of the now not-to-be-told future storylines. David Kemper has stated he had season 5 mostly scripted, and plot outlines for season 6.

One relatively non-spoilery example is some comments Starke makes when he first appears in Season 1 directly ties into recent events in the last several episodes with the location of Katratzi.

Posted by: DLiquid

quote:
Originally posted by laria
There's also some of the first season of Farscape on DVD I think (I don't think there's an entire boxed set).

The full first season boxed set came out a few months ago. I have it, but I haven't started watching yet. It's been a long time since I watched the first season, so it should be fun.

As for B5, I could never get into it. Because I had a friend that loved it, I forced myself to watch probably 10 episodes at various times during the first three seasons. Although I enjoyed some of those episodes, the acting and dialog were just painfully bad to me. I've heard so many people rave about this show, that I don't doubt that it's good if you watch from the beginning, I was just never able to break the barrier of not liking it.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I had the same problem with B5. What "converted" me was watching the entire first three seasons within a span of about a week and a half. It was about two-thirds of the way through the first season that I started catching on to what he was doing; watching it all again a couple of years later on the Sci-Fi daily strip, I got into if faster because I understood the set-up better (although the first third of Year 1 is still barely watchable).

But it's one of those shows where you either have to really buckle down and give it a chance to work on you (like me), or you have to have a really high tolerance for bad television (like my friend, who liked the show from the beginning).

Posted by: ZikZak

quote:
Originally posted by hughvh
(If you can make through the first seven shows. Do not miss the eight episode, "And a Flag Full of Stars". That's the one that will hook you.)

I believe you mean "And The Sky Full Of Stars." One of my favorites as well--- because that was the episode in which the overall storyline really got started.

I love B5 and Farscape both. It's hard to compare them side by side, though.

B5 is a thick, 900 page hard SF novel with a fantastic overall plot, multiple subplots, twists, turns, red herrings, and excellent character development. I often hear complaints about the wooden acting, and the human characters *are* occasionally a bit wooden, but Peter Jurasik as Londo and Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar are OUTSTANDING. They steal the whole series. (And as for humans, Claudia Christian and Patricia Tallman aren't difficult on the eyes at all!) Of all the SF TV out there, I think B5 is the only one that even comes close to the experience of curling up with a good Sci Fi novel. Summary: Don't miss it.

Farscape is more like a SF pulp magazine serial. It's a LOT of fun, has a LOT of action, and has intersting and *ahem* stimulating characters. It even has an overall storyline, but one which is less at the heart of the show than B5's. The last half of the fourth season, just now over, was the best SF on TV ever, bar none. But I think that in large part, that was because the show was just becoming arc-centered... and now we'll probably never see the end of the story. Even so, I thought the existing ending was very good--- exactly what you would expect from a serial. Summary: Don't miss it.

If there is any feasible way for you to watch both, you should do it. There's no better TV out there. You can probably decide whether you like "Farscape" after a few random episodes. If you're too time constrained to give B5 the entire first 2/3 of season 1 to get started, I'd recommend watching the first three or four season one arc episodes to see if you like the program. If you like those eps, go back and fill in the gaps before moving on to "Signs and Portents." I would recommend:

Midnight on the Firing Line
Parliament of Dreams
Sky Full of Stars, and
Deathwalker.

Never, ever, EVER, watch "Infection" or "TKO." Without those two episodes, B5 Season 1 becomes 200% better.

Posted by: laria

quote:
Originally posted by DLiquid
The full first season boxed set came out a few months ago. I have it, but I haven't started watching yet. It's been a long time since I watched the first season, so it should be fun.

Doh! I thought, hey cool, and went to go see how much it was so I could buy it...and then I saw the price.

Posted by: omv

To oversimplify: Farscape is more of a good-fun series focusing on a smaller set of characters. It does have a story arc, but you don't miss a whole lot seeing episodes in isolation.

B5 is way more serious, and deals with a *lot* of different characters and governments. S1 episodes were not particularly great in isolation, but decent when considered as a sum. S2 is significantly higher quality (imao), and by the season finale of S2, things are *really* getting interesting.

If you get serious into B5, you might want to check out the Lurkers Guide website if its still around - there's a staggering amount of info about each episode, but *lots* of spoilers if you haven't seen episodes yet.

Posted by: DLiquid

quote:
Originally posted by laria
Doh! I thought, hey cool, and went to go see how much it was so I could buy it...and then I saw the price.

Yeah, average price is $99 ($16.50/DVD) just like the Star Trek box sets. They should really lower these box sets to something like $60, I know I would buy more at that price.

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
But it's one of those shows where you either have to really buckle down and give it a chance to work on you (like me), or you have to have a really high tolerance for bad television (like my friend, who liked the show from the beginning).

That's interesting, your friend sounds like my friend, and I sound like the guy that just never buckled down with B5. I always had the feeling I could grow to like it, but those days were pre-TiVo so it was more of a commitment to buckle down. It's tempting to watch the whole thing on Sci Fi now, but I need to take a hiatus from that evil channel.

Posted by: laria

I never watched it when it was being broadcast, but my SO raved about it, so I buckled down the last time SciFi ran them all at once. It was worth it, and I didn't have to stew for an entire week over the weaker episodes. :) He was constantly reminding me how lucky I was to be watching them all at once and not having to wonder if it was going to be cancelled or not before it was finished.

Posted by: Vox Acerbus

i never watched "farscape". all i can say is that i was not a scifi fan until i got into babylon 5. i originally watched midway through the 1st season through the 3rd season. then later caught it from beginning to end on the scifi channel a few years ago thanks to tivo.

i will record it again in a heartbeat. yes, b5 has some faults, but it was one of the most gripping shows i've ever watched. the storytelling element is truly, overwhelmingly there. i loved it.

Posted by: brahamt

Season 2 of Farscape is available on DVD as well, though not in one complete boxed set. There are five individual 'sets' that contain 4-5 episodes and extras. They are named something like Farscape 2.1 through 2.5.

Posted by: rhuntington3

Both are excellent. Watch both. Enjoy.

Posted by: dmdeane

How can one chose? Both are excellent; each has different strengths and weaknesses, and will not appeal always to the same tastes, but if one has the will, one may find that they may be an acquired taste, with a minimum of effort.

Both have strong story arcs. B5 is the more heavily story-arc driven, but Farscape does have a well thought out story arc that become apparent after a few seasons. Both have strong character development. The characters at the end of the series have definitely grown and changed by the end of the series.

B5 is more traditional "hard" science fiction, albeit with a bit of "psionics", and "hyperspace", and other highly speculative things thrown in. It is "big idea" driven: War, Peace, the evolution and ultimate fate of humanity and other intelligent species, Death, Immortality, etc.

Farscape is more fantasy oriented; don't try to take the "science" seriously. It is more "little idea" driven - by which I don't mean they are not important or central ideas, but rather that they concern the interaction of a small group of people, and the greater world around them is secondary. It's more about how people learn to get along with each other and grow, rather than being concerned with the fate of Life or the evolution of the Universe, etc.

If people don't like B5, it is often because B5 gets too serious for them, too "big ideas" for them, and thus appears "wooden", "plodding", "pedantic", "ponderous", etc. If people don't like Farscape, it is often for the opposite reason: it does not seem to them to be serious enough, too "frivolous", too "weird", too "out there", etc. If you can get over these initial reactions, however, you may find that there is much in both series which is worthy of your attention.

Posted by: jmoak

quote:
Originally posted by DLiquid
Yeah, average price is $99 ($16.50/DVD) ...

HOLY FREAKIN' MOLEY!!!!!:eek:

I swear guys, I paid $60 for B5 1st season set and $65 for the Farscape 1st season set at my local BB.

...and I fussed about them being that high priced!!!

how much should they be? $49.95, msrp!

Posted by: 1badv6

I've got all of the farscape season 1 and 2, I'm starting on three, preorder is the key to my savings. B5 I have the 1st and the second is on preorder. Deepdiscount DVD helps alot. Also I just found a new program called DVD profiler and you can use it to find the best price out there and I tell you what it works. You can check out my list and the files at http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollec...?alias=onebadv6

It shows the first season of B5 at 67.87 including shipping

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I prefer www.dvdpricesearch.com, which currently has B5 S1 for $59.55 including shipping...

Posted by: Crrink

I was a big fan of B5, but couldn't get into Farscap - not that that helps very much...
Maybe the best idea is to watch the first 5-7 episodes of each, and then decide which one to continue with...yeah, it's going to be a pain squeezing all that TV into a short amount of time, but then you can go with the one you like more, and odds are pretty good, I'd think, that you'll be able to catch the other one later on, when you're done.

So many fans of both shows, either way, you'll probably enjoy the one you choose.

Posted by: dcheesi

Well, not that we need yet another opinion, but:

B5 is better sci-fi, Farscape is a better TV show. B5 is more "love it or hate it", whereas Farscape is sure to entertain almost anyone (as long as you don't dismiss it 'cause it's got "Muppets" :rolleyes: ). Farscape has better production values and more consistent acting, while B5 has better writing (overall) and a deeper storyline.

Posted by: dcheesi

quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
Maybe the best idea is to watch the first 5-7 episodes of each, and then decide which one to continue with...

As previously noted, the first 5-7 episodes of Babylon 5 are not its strongest... A better idea might be to concentrate on Farscape for the first few episodes, then switch over to B5 for a couple of the key early eps and decide from there.

Posted by: Crrink

I know the beginning of B5 isn't the greatest (neither is the end, unfortunately), but it was good enough for most of it's fans, so in order to not miss anything, I still think watching the first few is a good idea - if the OP likes it as much or more than Farscape, then he can continue knowing it's only going to get better.

If not, stick with Farscape.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Oh, I disagree--it was watching the first few episodes of B5 that made me swear it off forever when it first aired, and it took years for a friend to convince me to try it again. And once I got past the first 2/3 season, I became one of the show's biggest fans.

Posted by: rickertk

I just wanted to post a thank you to all the posters for their thoughtful comments. I still haven't decided what I'm going to do, but with so many enthusiastic people, trying to watch both has become a more viable option.

Keith

Posted by: IndyJones1023

I dabbled in B5 for a while, and it got exceedingly good up to the resolution of the Shadow Wars. I wasn't keeping track of seasons and thought that was the end of the 5-year arc. Then it came back with more story and got too political for me. It felt like they were going back to the well, trying to cash in on popularity when the story was supposed to be over. Everything after the Shadow Wars I didn't like. Was that the end of season 4?

As for Farscape, I didn't watch it from the beginning, and when I tried to check it out, it was an episode where everyone's personalities were switched with other bodies. So not only do I not know the characters, but the characters are all switched up. So I neglected to watch it for a while. Then I started in again out of lack of any good sci-fi (theses were the lean Voyager years) and really started diggin' it.

B5 is more cerebral, then sucks towards the end (IMHO), and Farscape is more of an action-packed rollercoaster ride.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

The Shadow War ended more or less on schedule, in the middle of the 4th season. But when they started the fourth season, there was some indication that the show would not be renewed for a fifth. So JSM took the storylines for the last year and a half, and divided them; some he rushed to fruition in the fourth (which would have run into the fifth), and others (which would have started in the fourth) were held back for the fifth. As a result, the flow between the fourth and fifth seasons was pretty jarring, and the show never really regained the momentum.

(Also, the series finale, at the end of year 5, was actually filmed at the end of year 4, in case 4 was the last season. If you drop the last episode of season 4 [which was filmed as the first of season 5, are you paying attention? :D] and replace it with the series finale, you'll have the swhole series as JMS intended it if it weren't renewed for season 5.)

And now, I'm starting to confuse myself...