TiVo Community Forums Archives - DVD+R/RW vs DVD-R/RW

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

DVD+R/RW vs DVD-R/RW - Need Advice
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: tanstaafl

OK, so I'm looking at DVD R/RW drives with a thought to converting the remainder of my VHS collection to DVD. Looking around, I notice that there seem to be two different formats of DVD drive out there; DVD+R/RW and DVD-R/RW.

What is the difference between these two formats? Is one more "compatible" than the other? Which one will work in my standard DVD player?

I notice that Sony has an all-in-one unit that covers both formats (which also comes in an external USB version) but they are a bit more expensive that units that are just one or the other.

Any advice or suggestions appreciated. TIA.

Posted by: stevel

Well, you'll get different explanations depending on whom you ask.

Both formats MAY work in your standard DVD player, but the "plus" format was designed specifically to be compatible with video DVD players whereas the "minus" format was designed more as a data format. An advantage of the "plus" format is that the rewriteable discs do not need "finalizing" and can be played on a normal DVD player immediately after recording. You can also edit titles and chapter marks and maintain player compatibility. The "minus" format can't do that.

The Sony drive is an excellent all-around drive (I have one), and is fast too, even at CD-R and RW. It also includes a good software bundle and can write to DVD-R at the new 4X speed.

If you want the "plus" side of the comparison, see the Format Comparison links at http://dvdplusrw.org/

For the record, I have a Sony DRU-500A and a Philips DVDR985 (standalone DVD+RW/R recorder) and like them a lot. I have not had problems playing discs on DVD players or PC DVD-ROM drives.

Posted by: grecorj

What Steve said. :)

Plus, you may want to check out http://www.dvdrhelp.com/

I bought a Sony VAIO desktop with a built-in version of the Sony DRU-500. Dual format flexability is important if you're going to be distributing those home movies to family members, all of whom probably have different DVD players.

A good source for blank media is http://www.meritline.com/ They even market a "sampler" pack of + and - media for Sony DRU-500 owners (not all media brands are created equal, so yes, you have to worry about that sometimes...).

Posted by: Mike Lang

quote:
Originally posted by grecorj

A good source for blank media is http://www.meritline.com/ They even market a "sampler" pack of + and - media for Sony DRU-500 owners (not all media brands are created equal, so yes, you have to worry about that sometimes...).

Another is http://www.shop4tech.com I'm using their house brand DVD-R discs (very inexpensive) with the Sony and have had no problems.

Posted by: IndyJones1023

I have an HP DVD+R/+RW burner and have found great compatibility with the +R discs. They even play on my mom's PlayStation2. And, checking a disc is properly digittized using +RW discs is wonderful! I've probably saved over a dozen DVDs from coasterdom that way.

Posted by: bobcarn

quote:
Originally posted by IndyJones1023
I have an HP DVD+R/+RW burner and have found great compatibility with the +R discs. They even play on my mom's PlayStation2. And, checking a disc is properly digittized using +RW discs is wonderful! I've probably saved over a dozen DVDs from coasterdom that way.

That's what I do too. I burn a DVD onto the +RW media (which doesn't have as wide compatibility as the +R media when it comes to DVD players) first. After I've played it for a bit and am sure that it's the way I like it, I then just do a copy of it to +R media so it's permanent. I only have one DVD player that accepts the +RW media, so I do my testing with that one. Once it's copied to +R though, all my players take it.

Posted by: IndyJones1023

quote:
Originally posted by bobcarn
That's what I do too. I burn a DVD onto the +RW media (which doesn't have as wide compatibility as the +R media when it comes to DVD players) first. After I've played it for a bit and am sure that it's the way I like it, I then just do a copy of it to +R media so it's permanent. I only have one DVD player that accepts the +RW media, so I do my testing with that one. Once it's copied to +R though, all my players take it.

We're so much alike, Bob! Well, ummm, except. Oh, oops, wrong forum. :D

Posted by: Hoffer

Get the Sony drive that burns both - and +. I've had it for a couple months and it works great! :)

Posted by: henryhank

The link above (http://dvdplusrw.org/pc/pccomparison.html) is a great comparison of +RW and -RW from the +RW side. Is there a similar page touting all the pluses of -RW over +RW? I want one of these (UMF) drives, but can't decide which format to go for? (I also want to archive lots of VHS tapes to DVD). Thanks.

Posted by: BattMan

<-- holds out for a consensus. Doesnt want another BetaMax.

Posted by: stevel

Well, if you want a PC drive, the Sony plays both sides of the fence, so you can't really go wrong. I do note that future Windows support for Mt. Rainier, where the DVD drive operates as a read-write disk without any special preparation, is for DVD+RW only. (DVD-RW can't handle it.) More and more +RW drives are coming out, but there are also several dual-format drives.

Note that whichever you choose, you should be able to READ the discs on current and future DVD players and recorders.

Posted by: grecorj

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
I do note that future Windows support for Mt. Rainier, where the DVD drive operates as a read-write disk without any special preparation, is for DVD+RW only. (DVD-RW can't handle it.)

Steve, when is that standard suppossed to become....well...standard?

Posted by: Raj

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
Well, you'll get different explanations depending on whom you ask.

Both formats MAY work in your standard DVD player, but the "plus" format was designed specifically to be compatible with video DVD players whereas the "minus" format was designed more as a data format.

Steve, I respectfully disagree. The first ever recordable DVD format was DVD-R for authoring. This was used by the studios to produce proof discs. It's very expensive, but I believe it was compatible with nearly all DVD players. It also used a different wavelength laser than the DVD-R format we know, which is DVD-R general. DVD-R(W) (the minus format) was designed by the DVD Forum. This is, incidentally, why only DVD-RW drives can carry the official DVD logo. DVD-R discs work on nearly all DVD players, except a very few which probably won't even play CD-R's. DVD-RW on the other hand, was completely different. Many DVD players could not play DVD-RW, even though they played DVD-R.

A few companies (Primarily Sony and Philips), formed the DVDRW Alliance. Out of this was born DVD+RW (the plus format). DVD+RW was initially touted as "the compatible rewriteable format". This simply meant that DVD+RW was more compatible with set top players than its minus counterpart, DVD-RW. As a matter of fact, in the early stages, write once DVD+R wasn't even released yet, and drives would only write to $15 DVD+RW discs. The drives were sold by some of the companies as being able to upgrade to write DVD+R discs by means of a firmware upgrade. This never happened, due to technical limitations, and the threat of a class action suit forced Philips to recall DVD+RW drives and replace them with DVD+RW/+R drives.

Furthermore, I believe DVD+R/RW is better for data, since it incorporates defect management, and has been touted as more of a consumer product. (Professionals don't use DVD+R/W format).

Anyway, in actual experience, people have been having mixed results. On all my friends' DVD players, I have had 100% compatibility with DVD-R, when it's recorded on good, name brand media (Sony, TDK, Memorex). Some people reported having compatibility problems with DVD+R as well as DVD-R discs. It's known for a fact that DVD-RW doesn't work on very many players. DVD+RW is slightly more compatible, but it doesn't have as high a compatibility rate as the regular write once media.

Posted by: BattMan

Is there a chance of dual-layer home DVD-R or +Rs coming out? I want to back up my DVD collection.

Posted by: stevel

That DVD-R/RW can carry the DVD logo and DVD+R/RW can't isn't particularly meaningful. What matters is real-world compatibility and features. And you're wrong about the firmware update at least in general. Some Philips recorders did have it. I know that some early recorders couldn't be upgraded to support DVD+R, but that's not an issue today.

DVD-R for Authoring is an entirely different beast from DVD-R for General Use. And what's with DVD-RAM being an "official" DVD Forum format, despite not being compatible with anything?

Posted by: Kablemodem

Is there a maximum number of optical drives you can have in a PC. I have a DVD-ROM and a CD-RW, but I was considering a Sony DRU-500AX. Do I have to remove one of my other drives first?

Posted by: pendragn

quote:
Originally posted by Kablemodem
Is there a maximum number of optical drives you can have in a PC. I have a DVD-ROM and a CD-RW, but I was considering a Sony DRU-500AX. Do I have to remove one of my other drives first?

As long as you have enough IDE connections, you should be fine. Your computer, or Windows doesn't have a hard set limit on how many optical, or removable drives it will support. I used to work with servers that served out CD and had 8 CD-ROM drives attached.

I've got a Pioneer 104 DVD-R drive and I've had no compatibility issues, and the -R media cheap. However, if I buy a second DVD burner, it'll be one that does +R and -R.

tk

Posted by: henryhank

Boy, you guys sure don't make it easy to decide on which format to select (and I don't want to spend the $$$$ for a combo drive). It's turning into a PC/Mac war.

Posted by: tanstaafl

Thanks for the info everyone... It looks like the more I research this the less obvious the choice becomes.

My main concern, as BattMan alluded to, is avoiding another VHS/Beta situation. It looks like if I am going to get a unit now I should spend the extra few bucks and pick up one of the multi-format units, probably the Sony. Oh well, I gotta do something with that tax refund anyway, don't I? :)

Posted by: Raj

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
That DVD-R/RW can carry the DVD logo and DVD+R/RW can't isn't particularly meaningful. What matters is real-world compatibility and features.

Again, as I said, people have been having mixed results. The compatibility with the write once discs is about even, but I prefer to stick to an official standard. That's just my preference.

quote:
And you're wrong about the firmware update at least in general. Some Philips recorders did have it. I know that some early recorders couldn't be upgraded to support DVD+R, but that's not an issue today.

According to DVDplusrw.org, set top recorders could have been firmware upgraded, but not PC drives. I was an early adopter of the DVD+RW standard, I bought a Philips DVD+RW through DELL. As much as I looked, and spoke to DELL and Philips, I could not get an update to go to DVD+R. Others on the DVDPlusRW.org had the same problem, and it was identified as a problem with the laser. With the threat of class action, Philips recalled the early non-OEM drives. I was stuck with mine, sold it on eBay and got a Pioneer DVD-RW drive. I have never looked back.

quote:
DVD-R for Authoring is an entirely different beast from DVD-R for General Use. And what's with DVD-RAM being an "official" DVD Forum format, despite not being compatible with anything?

What do you mean it's not compatible with anything? There are drives and set top players that will read it. Just check out the compatibility list at www.dvdrhelp.com.

Posted by: Raj

Here's an overview of both formats:

http://www.dvdrhelp.com./dvd

Posted by: stevel

DVD-RAM is compatible with drives and players that explicitly support DVD-RAM. That means selected Panasonic models. Just try reading a DVD-RAM disc on an ordinary DVD player that doesn't explicitly claim to support DVD-RAM. Your success rate will be zero. At least DVD-RW and DVD+RW are readable on at least half of such players (newer models are more likely to work.)

Posted by: logic88

I bought a Sony DRU500a combo unit for work but I'm waiting to see how LiteOn's combo unit is like before I buy one for personal use. I burn enough DVDs that the current difference in cost between DVD-R and DVD+R is sufficient to make me want to use a combo unit only since I don't want to be stuck with a DVD-R only unit when DVD+R overtakes DVD-R (yes, I'm predicting the demise of DVD-R. :) ).

Posted by: DanT

Do you know when the LiteOn combo drive will be out? I suspect it will drive the prices down.

Posted by: MikeekiM

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
The Sony drive is an excellent all-around drive (I have one)

Steve,

So based on your experience, which format do you usually burn? And is it 100% of the time, or do you choose the format based on your need?

Thanks!

Posted by: stevel

Since I have a bunch of +R and +RW discs, I haven't had the opportunity to try -R discs. People on the dvdplusrw.org forum often use -R with this drive and have no problems.

Posted by: Bryanmc

I've burned +R, -R, and +RW with the Sony drive.

I've probably burned about 50 discs so far and have only had no coasters.

The majority of my burning is with -R.

Posted by: Ereth

Bryan, You would be a good one, then to answer the other side of the question. Stevel has, rather eloquently I think, made the case that +R/+RW is superior. Since you mostly burn -R, I would be curious as to your reasoning? There must be a reason for -R, given all the good things +RW has going for it?

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
Bryan, You would be a good one, then to answer the other side of the question. Stevel has, rather eloquently I think, made the case that +R/+RW is superior. Since you mostly burn -R, I would be curious as to your reasoning? There must be a reason for -R, given all the good things +RW has going for it?

Well, I'm afraid I'll never be as eloquent as Stevel.

I do most of my burning for video work. I've found that, percentage wise, +R and - R are going to have the same non-play rates on DVD players. So I just burn -R because it's a bit cheaper and I think it works just as well for DVD playback as +R.

I tell everyone I burn disks for (-R or +R) that it really needs to be played on a player that's within 2 years old to ensure compatibility.

Although, I've got a 5 year old player that I test all my disks on.

The only times I've burned +R disks are when clients specifically request them. And in those cases it's usually because they have access to a +R burner themselves or have only ever used +R.

I think both sides of the fence are good. I've had need for both formats so I really like the combo drive.

Posted by: stevel

Please note that for write-once formats, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference between -R and +R. It's the rewriteable formats where the differences show themselves.

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
Please note that for write-once formats, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference between -R and +R. It's the rewriteable formats where the differences show themselves.

Yeah, I don't do any rewritable except for DVD testing before I burn a -R/+R.

And for that I just use the +RW disk that came with the drive. It's worked great time and time again.

Posted by: Ereth

Is there an .iso-like format where you could (for example) use a standalone recorder (say, the DVD-R985) to make a DVD+R, then copy that to a file on your hard drive, which you could then burn back to either a DVD-R or DVD+R (assuming a combo drive) based on the compatibility where you are going to play it?

I ask because I have no video input to my computer. So I am going to record TV onto a standalone unit (probably the DVD-R985, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet). However, this conversation reminds me that just maybe I couldn't loan that DVD to my sister, because her player might not do DVD+R, and I haven't seen anything remotely resembling a combo standalone player.

Posted by: Bryanmc

Yes.

You can make a copy of one disk onto another format.

I do this when I author DVDs. My DVD authoring program doesn't write to DVD+R.

I've had the best success by creating a -R disk, then using a disk copy tool I make +R copies from that.

Now, I'm not 100% certain as to what a standalone DVD recorder does to a disk, but if you get a working disk from it you should be able to make copies of it to any format you like.

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
and I haven't seen anything remotely resembling a combo standalone player.

Remember, it's not an either/or thing. This is where the VHS/beta argument breaks down.

Most players (if not all the newer ones) will play both formats.

Again, I'm not sure if a standalone DVD burner makes some weird thing that is only played in like units.

For the money, why wouldn't you look into getting a video capture solution for your PC?

Posted by: Ereth

Well, yeah, but I want an intermediate step of copying it to my hard drive. I don't want two DVD players in my computer. :)

I can download .iso files that turn into CDs simply enough. I didn't know if .iso handled a full DVD and if it did, if it also specified the format somehow (ie, you could only make a DVD+R from an .iso generated from a DVD+R).

Posted by: Ereth

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
For the money, why wouldn't you look into getting a video capture solution for your PC?

Three part answer:

1) I have 3 TiVo's (2 of which are combo units), 2 VCRs, a DVD player and a Laserdisc player in my entertainment center. There are no computers anywhere near it. I'd have to build a new computer to put in the living room. Then I have to deal with 20-foot keyboard extensions and power and lots of issues I'm not ready to deal with.

2) I looked and didn't like any of the choices I saw. Can't record HDTV worth a damn yet (well, you can with some capability, but not from DirecTV at all, and you have to jump through serious hoops).

3) No video source near the computer, and besides I use the computer for playing games. I don't want to have to stop playing Asheron's Call just because some TV show I want to record to DVD is coming on. That's why I have a TiVo, after all.

Posted by: Metaluna

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
Well, if you want a PC drive, the Sony plays both sides of the fence, so you can't really go wrong. I do note that future Windows support for Mt. Rainier, where the DVD drive operates as a read-write disk without any special preparation, is for DVD+RW only. (DVD-RW can't handle it.) More and more +RW drives are coming out, but there are also several dual-format drives.

Unfortunately most +RW drives (including the Sony) don't support Mt. Rainier currently so it's something of a moot point if you're buying a drive today. It's possible that some manufacturers may add support later in firmware but I wouldn't base a buying decision on it.

Posted by: Metaluna

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
Is there an .iso-like format where you could (for example) use a standalone recorder (say, the DVD-R985) to make a DVD+R, then copy that to a file on your hard drive, which you could then burn back to either a DVD-R or DVD+R (assuming a combo drive) based on the compatibility where you are going to play it?

Yes, there is an .iso format for DVD's, though I don't know if you can use it to transition between + and -R. I have seen some DVD-ripping software that will do it but I don't know if it's okay to name them in this forum. You might be able to do it for non-encrypted DVD's using common CD/DVD burning software like Nero as well, though I've never tried it.

Posted by: logic88

In addition to .ISO, like in the CDR world, there are a few other DVD image standards. I use 120% Alcohol for .MDS images, RecordNow Max for .GI and .IMG images, and finally Disc Juggler for .CDI images.

I haven't seen a release date for the LiteOn combo drive yet but IIRC, it was suppose to hit the market in late-Q1 or early-Q2 so I guess it should be "real soon now".

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
Well, yeah, but I want an intermediate step of copying it to my hard drive. I don't want two DVD players in my computer. :)

Sorry, I guess I didn't really understand what you were wanting to do.

You don't need 2 drives on your computer if you've got a dual format drive like the Sony. You just put your disk in, tell it to make a copy and it copies the info to you hard drive (in a temp folder) and then you swap out disks and write to the new format.

I use RecordNow to do this.

Posted by: Ereth

Thanks Bryan, that is the info I was looking for!

Stevel, I am looking at the DVD-R985, and I don't see any speed info on it. Is it a 1x burner? I ask because I'm buying media for the first time and want to get the right stuff, obviously. I've been to Meritline and I see prices for 1x, 2x and even 4x media, which should I use in the DVD-R985?

Posted by: stevel

The Philips DVDR985 is a standalone DVD video recorder, not a PC drive. It supports recording on DVD+RW and DVD+R discs, and since it records in "real-time", the speed doesn't matter. I would recommend using DVD+RW discs in the 985 - I see little point to using +R discs there. There is currently only one "speed" of +RW discs, 2.4X, I think.

As for copying discs - I have made several DVD+R copies of a DVD+RW disc I initially recorded on the 985. The DRU-500A's bundled software includes a disc copy feature that uses a disk file as an intermediate (and you can save it for reuse later.)

Posted by: Ereth

Ah, too many pages open at once. I see that now. I was looking at DVD-R to have around just in case I ran into compatiblity issues (for that loan to my sister), and got disoriented. Yup, all the DVD+RW is 2.4x. Thanks.

Posted by: stevel

Note that the 985 does NOT record DVD-R!

Posted by: Ereth

quote:
Originally posted by DanT
It seems to me that if it's a standalone burner, it HAS to be 1x. Well, at least it has to record at 1x anyway. Can't record faster than realtime.

Actually, I wasn't certain of that. There are consumer tape decks that CAN record faster than realtime, when used for dubbing. But given that my TiVo is likely the source, yeah, realtime is the best I'm going to get.

Some days I'm just dense. :)

Posted by: Bryanmc

Ereth,

There are sites (and I'm sure someone knows them off the top of their head) that will let you check and see if a DVD player is compatible with a certain format.

You could check your sister's player and see if +R/+RW works for her. You might be able to just let her use the disks right from the burner.

Again, I don't know anything about standalone burners so I may be mistaken.

Posted by: Ereth

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
Note that the 985 does NOT record DVD-R!

Yeah, I already have the Sony (still in the box, unopened). I was simply thinking ahead, on the off-chance that my sisters ancient DVD player won't play a DVD+RW or DVD+R then I could make a DVD-R instead on the Sony.

It's kind of a "covering my bases" thought process. Everything you've said makes perfect sense and I've no doubt I'll just use DVD+RW for most of my own stuff, but was thinking about what to do if I made a disk for her, or my parents, the kind of people who won't replace their DVD player until it completely fails, so probably have old ones (heck, I have a Panasonic A110 in my bedroom for that matter).

Posted by: Ereth

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
Ereth,

There are sites (and I'm sure someone knows them off the top of their head) that will let you check and see if a DVD player is compatible with a certain format.

You could check your sister's player and see if +R/+RW works for her. You might be able to just let her use the disks right from the burner.

Again, I don't know anything about standalone burners so I may be mistaken.

According to www.dvdrhelp.com my own (bedroom) player (Panasonic A110) won't do either RW format, but will do both R formats. The Panasonic RP56, which I have in the living room will do all 4. I'll need to find out what my sister has, I don't know. Something inexpensive, I'm certain.

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
(heck, I have a Panasonic A110 in my bedroom for that matter).

That's my old reliable that I use for checking my disks!

She's a great unit.

Can't believe how much I paid for it....

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
According to www.dvdrhelp.com my own (bedroom) player (Panasonic A110) won't do either RW format, but will do both R formats.

Huh. I'm almost positive that I've used my +RW disk in my A110.

I'll try tonight and see.

I've got an RP82 in the living room that plays everything.

Posted by: Ereth

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
I've got an RP82 in the living room that plays everything.

Between that and the 8 foot TV, just gotta have one better than anything I have, don't you? DON'T YOU?

:D

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
Between that and the 8 foot TV, just gotta have one better than anything I have, don't you? DON'T YOU?

:D

It's 9 feet thank you very much. ;) I've just got more to compensate for, I guess.

But while it's bigger than yours :eek:, your DLP blows it out of the water with PQ. You've got me there.

However, I'm willing to bet my sound setup will be superior. :D I'm pretty proud of it.

Posted by: Ereth

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
However, I'm willing to bet my sound setup will be superior. :D I'm pretty proud of it.

Yeah? I've got a new Pioneer VSX-49TX THX Ultra 2 on order, to replace my aging Kenwood KR-X1000 THX Receiver, though I'm keeping the 5 Infinity speakers I'm using.

And, can I get a job like yours that pays a bunch more so I can have bigger toys, too?

:D

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
Yeah? I've got a new Pioneer VSX-49TX THX Ultra 2 on order, to replace my aging Kenwood KR-X1000 THX Receiver, though I'm keeping the 5 Infinity speakers I'm using.

And, can I get a job like yours that pays a bunch more so I can have bigger toys, too?

:D

Dang. None of the pics I've seen of your living room showed the audio stuff. At least that I noticed. I guess Ereth is better than me in everything. :( :D

And all of my toys were bought year before last when I did have the bucks rolling in.

Nowadays, not so much. Stick with what you've got.

Posted by: Ereth

Well, the KR-X1000 is about 8 years old, it was pretty nice when it was new (still is, really, but technology has pass it by. I have to have an external AC3/DTS decoder because those are newer technologies). The Pioneer isn't here yet. I was going to get the 47, because the 49 is just too expensive, but found it refurbed for barely more than the 47, so how could you say no?

The speakers are almost as old, but I like them, they sound good. (Oh, wait, 6. I forgot the SubWoofer is an Infinity, too).

And I'm not better than you in Halo. :)

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
And I'm not better than you in Halo. :)

Until it comes out for the PC, that is....

Posted by: Ereth

You'll appreciate this, Bryan. Years ago I went into Radio Shack looking for some cables, or something, I don't even remember what now. The sales drone starts trying to sell me some of their "Optimus" or whatever they were speakers, and I just looked at him and said "I have Infinitys". He kept going on and on and one of the more senior guys came over and touched him, said "He has Infinitys", and the first drone said "I don't know what that is", so the senior guy simply says "They are more advanced than anything we sell. Someone with those doesn't need your advice, just get him what he wants".

:D

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
You'll appreciate this, Bryan. Years ago I went into Radio Shack looking for some cables, or something, I don't even remember what now. The sales drone starts trying to sell me some of their "Optimus" or whatever they were speakers, and I just looked at him and said "I have Infinitys". He kept going on and on and one of the more senior guys came over and touched him, said "He has Infinitys", and the first drone said "I don't know what that is", so the senior guy simply says "They are more advanced than anything we sell. Someone with those doesn't need your advice, just get him what he wants".

:D

Ha! Great story. I am surprised that there was even one guy there who was in the know. Of course, you did say years ago...

Posted by: Ereth

Ok, Bryan, just for you. In this pic, if you ignore the beautiful DLP television, you can see one of my Infinity RS 4b's to my right (wood grain, stands about 4 feet tall). To the left of the tv, standing vertically you can see my center channel, and the KR-X1000 is on the top of the entertainment center to the left.

Not that I'm bragging or anything. Lots of guys in the AVS forum have systems that blow mine away.

http://users.ilnk.com/ereth/TV2.jpg

Posted by: Bryanmc

Well, it's just about impossible to not look at the TV.

<drool>

Here are a few I just snapped. Don't tell my wife I posted pics of the living room messy. I'll be in big doo doo.

Here are the mains and front. When the TV is moved for the projector, the front gets set up on a stand right below the screen.
http://www.bryanmc.com/images/mains.jpg

My rears are in corners. Not the best placement, but the best I could negotiate with my wife.
http://www.bryanmc.com/images/left_rear.jpg http://www.bryanmc.com/images/right_rear.jpg

All the speakers are from the PSB Image line.

I've just got a simple Yamaha V620 pushing the speakers. That'd be the first thing to upgrade when I get the dough.

Posted by: Ereth

Some day I'll get a digital camera and can do such things. You'd think a geek like me would have one already.

Something unusual about my system, I actually have full-fledge 3 ways for my rears, instead of "surround speakers". Infinity RS 4000s to be precise. Had them, figured why not use them?

Posted by: Raj

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
Please note that for write-once formats, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference between -R and +R. It's the rewriteable formats where the differences show themselves.

Apart from the slightly lesser compatibility of the +R format, CDRecord in Linux currently does not support DVD+R/RW. If you're using Linux, you have to use DVD-R/RW.

Posted by: Ereth

Ok, I installed my Sony DRU-500AX today. Guess what? RecordNow generates a Dr Watson error and will not install. How useless is that?

So, what software would I want to be able to take DVDs made in that standalone recorder that isn't here yet, and put chapter markers in them (and do that trick to make chapters disappear so I can throw away commercials, for example)?

Also, is there a maximum number of chapters on a DVD? I have "AL TV" and would love to give each video it's own chapter marker, so jumping to, say, "Dog Police" would be easy.

Posted by: Raj

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth
Ok, I installed my Sony DRU-500AX today. Guess what? RecordNow generates a Dr Watson error and will not install. How useless is that?

Don't use that POS. Get Nero.

quote:
So, what software would I want to be able to take DVDs made in that standalone recorder that isn't here yet, and put chapter markers in them (and do that trick to make chapters disappear so I can throw away commercials, for example)?

That's pretty complex. You can get a ripper like SmartRipper and rip the files to M2V's and then edit them in Premiere or any video editing program. YOu can then use a real DVD authoring package like DVDIt and add your chapter markers.

quote:
Also, is there a maximum number of chapters on a DVD? I have "AL TV" and would love to give each video it's own chapter marker, so jumping to, say, "Dog Police" would be easy.

I think it maxes out at 999 chapters and 511 titles or something of the sort.

Posted by: stevel

Pull out the instruction sheet that came with the drive (pink or yellow, I don't remember). There's a link on it to get an updated version of RecordNow (RecordNow DX.) I've used this and it works ok, though I tend to use Easy CD Creator for the most part.

For adding chapter marks on +RW discs, there's Ulead's DVD Movie Studio. I have this but haven't been able to get it to actually function yet... I do the chapter marking and "set invisible" on my DVDR985.

Posted by: Ereth

Interesting. The pink sheet that came with mine only tells me that I won't be able to install PowerDVD XP if I install DLA first. RecordNow DX is on the CD, and it's installer won't work.

I have a copy of Nero that came with my Yamaha CD-RW drive, but it turns out it only works with that drive. I went to Aheads site, but it looks like you have to buy Nero 5.5 and then a $31 plugin to do DVDs, so before I dropped $100 I figured I'd check to see if there was a better choice.

Posted by: stevel

Well, Roxio Easy CD and DVD creator is only $50 after rebate at Costco - and I've seen that price elsewhere on occasion.

What OS do you run? What happens when you run the RecordNow installer?

Posted by: Ereth

Windows 2000. When I run the installer a little dialog box pops up that says "SETUP.EXE has generated an error and will be shut down. A log is being created". After a few seconds, it goes away.

My Event Log contains:

The application, , generated an application error The error occurred on 03/28/2003 @ 18:06:50.718 The exception generated was c0000005 at address 77F8EE03 (RtlInitializeCriticalSectionAndSpinCount)

though the address isn't consistent every time.

I'd rather run Nero than Roxio, I was just curious if there was a special "DVD" package I should be looking for, rather than the CD package I'm familiar with. Looks like no.

If you set all the chapters and stuff in the DVD-R985, what is it that you do on the PC afterwards?

Posted by: logic88

quote:
Originally posted by Ereth

I have a copy of Nero that came with my Yamaha CD-RW drive, but it turns out it only works with that drive. I went to Aheads site, but it looks like you have to buy Nero 5.5 and then a $31 plugin to do DVDs, so before I dropped $100 I figured I'd check to see if there was a better choice.

Weird. The OEM version of Nero that came with my LiteOn works fine with the 5.5.10.17 updater that Ahead has on their site. I don't remember precisely when DVDR support was added but I think v5.5 was the initial version with DVDR support.

So I would definitely look into one of those $10 OEM copies of Nero available online.

Posted by: Ereth

I ran the updater just fine, it's just that there's a big red circle with a line through it over the Sony drive and when I try to click it a dialog box pops up that says "This version of Nero only works with Yamaha drives. Please buy the full version to use other drives" or somesuch.

Are you telling me that the "plugins" listed on their order page are not extra?

Posted by: logic88

I guess there are OEM versions and then "crippled" OEM versions since my copy of Nero states "Version: OEM 5.5.10.17" right in the About Box and it works fine with the Sony DRU500a.

Those plugins are extra but I never use them. I believe those plugins are only if you want to convert non-compliant video (ASF/WMV/AVI/etc.) to compliant MPG2 files for burning to DVD. I usually have compliant VOBs already (from SmartRipper, TMPGEnc, etc.) so I just dump them into Nero for burning.

Posted by: Hockey9

As long as you guys are talking softwware. I have 2 questions .I just got a +rw with my new dell (Only $100 extra). I would have opted for the Sony but for a $100 I am game. Anyway I understand from what I have read that DVD X Copy is sorta of a DVD Copier program for dummies. Which is what I want at this point. With +r blanks hard to find under $2 I dont want to try to learn while I waste money. I will admit that it has its illicit uses so my 2nd question is since you can buy it from a brick and mortar do you think you would get into any trouble by using it when they lose their lawsuit and get shut down. In other words will they come after end users that have registered on their website when you get the updates.
Thanks

Posted by: Ereth

I doubt it, but if you worry about that, simply don't register. The software will work just fine.

Tracking individual users is probably more work than it's worth.

Posted by: Hockey9

It appears that with their reverse lawsuit they are now offering $10K to anyone who turns in a pirate using their software for copying anything that they do not own. They want to prove to the studios that they are all for the backup exclusion of the copyright act. DVRhelp.com has other options . 321 Studios is getting desperate.

Posted by: Ereth

Stevel,
I was curious if you knew what the SP+ and EP+ modes in the DVD-R985 are? My manual only lists HQ, SP, LP, and EP, but when I go to choose quality, there's also SP+ and EP+. I don't know if they hold more time, or have higher quality or what.

Posted by: stevel

Ereth, the SP+ and EP+ modes give somewhat longer times, with minimal reduction in quality. SP+ is 2.5 (vs. 2) hours and EP+ is 6 (vs 4) hours. SP+ is good for material that goes just over the 2-hour time of SP, without having to go to the lower quality EP (4-hour) mode.

www.dvdplusrw.org is a good reference for such things.