TiVo Community Forums Archives - HMO Scheduling w/ web-enabled phone

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HMO Scheduling w/ web-enabled phone
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Posted by: NeoStrom

Does anyone know if Remote Scheduling will be possible from web-enabled phones?

Posted by: jlharing99

I hope so!!!! That would be great because I just upgraded to the Motorola T720 with wed access.

I would give up my Pony for this. (Not TivoPony but my real one)

Posted by: d_anders

By that do you mean, will the site be WAP enabled?

Most cell phones have issues with standard web sites, but enabling a WAP view would possibly do the trick...and quite honestly that's where the remote scheduling would prove to be the most powerful...

It was funny that the TiVo blurb on our units recently featured a young woman on a airplane that wanted to update her TiVo schedule to record a food show....it made me wonder how she would get that accomplished (assuming it's before take off) without an internet connection and have the time to pull out the laptop, boot-up, and make the changes in time before they restrict usage during takeoff?

Most people don't have that type of wireless capability...but there are certainly a larger number of people (likely the a good portion of the sane audience of TiVo owners) that have cellphones...most of which that have some type of web based access...

Posted by: zaknafein

TiVoWeb works pretty well over an HTML->WAP gateway. :)

Posted by: Riggstonia

does the phone support java? i thought i read something about the tivo needs java support.

Posted by: mikedaly

quote:
Originally posted by Riggstonia
does the phone support java? i thought i read something about the tivo needs java support.

If anything, I would imagine it might use Javascript, not Java. The current "Manage Account" uses Javascript.

Posted by: Riggstonia

that's it... java script...

Posted by: alansh

Their site is picky about browsers. It tries to redirect my Opera browser to an error page, claiming it doesn't support Javascript. However, if I prevent the meta-refresh, it works fine. :mad: Also, the page it redirects to doesn't exist. :down: :down: :down:

Posted by: TiVoOpsMgr

Alansh, thanks for making us aware of the problem. We will fix the error page so that it exists.

We don't have the staff to certify every browser, so we haven't seen the Opera problems ourselves. However, we only redirect browsers that say they don't support Javascript, so Opera must be telling us that it doesn't support the level of Javascript we use. We're a bit busy, but we will look into Opera support in the future.

You call us "picky" and I can't really argue; it's a fine line we have to cross between supporting everything and then getting support issues because the UI is not as simple or there are browser compatibility issues, versus supporting a specific set of browser requirements at the risk of locking out some of our customers.

As for WAP, no promises, but we're definitely aware of the interest. The initial launch of Home Media Option will not support WAP.

Best regards,
Stephen

Posted by: hawkamer

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
Alansh, thanks for making us aware of the problem. We will fix the error page so that it exists.

And now lets all take a moment from our busy schedules to ponder the metaphysical implications of making something "exist." :D

Posted by: Hunter Green

Well, for what it's worth, Manage My Account now lets me in with Opera 6. I don't have 7 to try with there, but I bet it was the same problem that fixes it in both.

Posted by: JolDC

quote:
Originally posted by d_anders
<SNIP>
It was funny that the TiVo blurb on our units recently featured a young woman on a airplane that wanted to update her TiVo schedule to record a food show....it made me wonder how she would get that accomplished (assuming it's before take off) without an internet connection and have the time to pull out the laptop, boot-up, and make the changes in time before they restrict usage during takeoff?
<SNIP>

They solved that problem. In the video, she schedules the recording after reaching her destination.

Posted by: MikeRadio

With my Treo I can get to just about any website, and if it is secure I get the lock icon.

Therefore when Home Media is out, I am counting on being able to program my Tivo remotely from ANYWHERE.

Now How cool would that be??

In the park.. in the movie theatre in the dark... at the mall... in a wedding hall.... on the roller coaster... while shoping for a new toaster... at work.. in an elevator or at a picnic

If this is the case, you can be eating out with a friend who says.. you gotta check out this new show bla bla bkla and you just go to your tivo online and program bla bla bla...

How imporessive is that!

Posted by: npresley

I've been waiting on HMO for this very reason (well, one of the reasons). But if it uses javascript, I'm out of luck with my Danger Sidekick for the moment. It has a fully functional HTML browser, but no javascript support. Here's hoping...

-Nick

Posted by: alansh

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
Alansh, thanks for making us aware of the problem. We will fix the error page so that it exists.

We don't have the staff to certify every browser, so we haven't seen the Opera problems ourselves. However, we only redirect browsers that say they don't support Javascript, so Opera must be telling us that it doesn't support the level of Javascript we use. We're a bit busy, but we will look into Opera support in the future.

The future is now, I guess -- Opera now works. I'll bet there were bugs in the browser detection as well as the missing error page. Thanks for fixing it.:up: :up: :up:

Posted by: MikeRadio

quote:
Originally posted by npresley
I've been waiting on HMO for this very reason (well, one of the reasons). But if it uses javascript, I'm out of luck with my Danger Sidekick for the moment. It has a fully functional HTML browser, but no javascript support. Here's hoping...

-Nick

I don't see why they would need Java... looking at those screen shots on the Remote Scheduling page of the HMO coming soon stuff, it looks like a basic pull down menu type thing.....

Mike

Posted by: npresley

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRadio
I don't see why they would need Java... looking at those screen shots on the Remote Scheduling page of the HMO coming soon stuff, it looks like a basic pull down menu type thing.....

Mike

That's what I'm hoping, it would work perfectly on my phone.

Posted by: smak

I too have a sidekick and am hoping it will work. I was trying to get pony to buy a sidekick so there'd be some incentive to get it to work with one :).

I don't think there needs to be any java stuff, it's basically going to be a big search engine, maybe do a few check boxes, and submit.

-smak-

Posted by: esperantisto

HEY! I got TCO on my Treo today! Horay!

Now I can schedule things to record from my phone when I'm in Sweden this summer. How whiz-bang is that?

Posted by: npresley

quote:
Originally posted by smak
I too have a sidekick and am hoping it will work. I was trying to get pony to buy a sidekick so there'd be some incentive to get it to work with one :).

I don't think there needs to be any java stuff, it's basically going to be a big search engine, maybe do a few check boxes, and submit.

-smak-

It does in fact work on the sidekick. There's the javascript warning at the top of each page, but it still works fine. Now maybe we can convince TiVo to put out a mobile-friendly version of TCO... All they need to do is put up a page with just the main content, losing all the other menus and graphics.

-Nick

Posted by: PrimeRisk

I'm another sidekick owner. I'm pressing on both fronts:

1) A TCO interface that doesn't require JavaScript
2) Enabling JavaScript on the Sidekicks

Posted by: npresley

Don't think we'll see javascript on the Sidekick for quite a while, unfortunately. It looks very likely that there won't be a browser update until or after the color model is released sometime this summer (or later). And javascript may not even be in that update.

The remote scheduling parts of TCO work without javascript (from what I've tried so far), so that doesn't seem to be an issue on the sidekick yet. But a lean and mean version of TCO/remote scheduling without any javascript or pictures would be fantastic.

-Nick

Posted by: jakelambert

I tried to get into TiVo Central using my Verizon web enabled cell phone. Getting to TiVo.com is no problem. When I try to get into TiVo Central, I get a javascript error, though. Looks like it's a no-go for me.

Posted by: ashutoshsm

The subject says it all - get the JavaScriot error, and a list of all the left-form links - but all of them seem tor eturn me to the same left-form with the JavaScript error preceding the menu items.

Siemens S46 with ATTWS, FYI

Posted by: JWard

It does work with Blazer on my Treo 300. But not on my favorite browser (Xiino).

However the fact that the site doesn't work with plain HTML is dissapointing.

Posted by: PrimeRisk

I think the best we can do right now tell TiVo we would like to see a mobile-friendly website.

Posted by: nyy7

Remote Scheduling is working perfectly from my Handspring Treo 300 with Sprint and Blazer 2.0 browser. Couldn't be cooler!
Bruce

Posted by: doctorc

Yep it is working perfectly (remote scheduling, the whole deal) on my Treo 300 with SprintPCS as well.

TIVO -- hehe, please don't change your site around and 'break' this feature - I love being able to access my schedule from my mobile phone.

I'd encourage you to look into enabling this over WAP so that other users can have the same benefit. It is amazingly cool!

Posted by: doctorc

Well remote scheduling works on the Treo 300 -- sort of. It allows you to schedule everything but the only thing you cannot do is change the 'additional recording options' (e.g. alter the keep at most options etc). Not really a huge deal, but I think it could be fixed quite easily. The reason it does not support this is because I get an error about not being able to support javascript when I click the advanced record options.

TiVo -- it would be great if you could do a wap version of this site, or at least do a version that has no / very few images and no javascript (I woudl think that would not be hard to do at all). THat would allow > 90% of the existing mobile clients out there to access your site, and you wouldn't have to do WAP at all, just take out some images (or make them smaller / lower res) and don't use javascript (I don't think you're using it all that much at the moment anyway -- why not just get rid of it, seems kind of superfluous).

Thanks :))))

Posted by: alansh

From a quick look at the web code, TiVo is using

code:<noscript>
 <img BORDER="0" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1" SRC="http://statse.
webtrendslive.com/S126079/button6.asp?
tagver=6&si=126079&offset=-800&fw=0&js=No&">
</noscript>
<noscript>
  <meta HTTP-EQUIV="refresh" CONTENT="0; url=/tivo-com/noscript.html">
    We're sorry, but you are unable to use "Manage My Account".
    This is because you have Javascript turned off or you are using a
    Non-Javascript browser.  Please turn Javascript on or use a Javascript
    compliant browser.
</noscript>

to force you to an error page if you don't have scripting. And they seem to be using a 1x1 pixel web bug to log the access (however, the bug won't work on a browers that don't use images).

The only place scripting is actually used in the scheduling form is to refresh the page if you change the selected DVR.

Posted by: megazone

Yeah, and that's weak. Just put a damn 'GO' button next to the pulldown. You can do that AND script it - people with scripting get the automatic update, those without click the button. Simple.

Things like this just really bug me because it is bad web design - and I worked on the HTML, CSS, and WAI W3C specs so it is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Posted by: TiVoOpsMgr

Hi folks,

We cannot announce anything concrete about a WAP-enabled or slimmed down or non-Javascript version of TiVo Central Online.

I'm definitely sympathetic (and megazone, I'm familiar with HTML as well), but in talking to the developers and designers, we had some usability issues where a lot of folks had a hard time using the page without having the page automatically update. Note that we also use Javascript elsewhere to provide immediate feedback about data entry errors.

It is a complex balancing act we have to perform. We have seen that the vast majority of web users do have a Javascript-enabled client (although I know that's a bit of a circular argument); we do have to balance that (with the usability benefits that Javascript allows) versus making the page usable by a wider range of web clients.

Posted by: nyjklein

How about leaving the exitsing page intact for JS enabled browsers and having a separate "mobile" page for non-JS browsers? A bit more work for the site programmers but increased customer statisfaction for all!

Posted by: SteakMan

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
(and megazone, I'm familiar with HTML as well)

Damn! I have GOT to write a book, just so I can drop a bomb like that :D
-SteakMan-

Posted by: TiVoOpsMgr

Twice as much to QA every time we roll out a new version, twice as many URLs to support, and then the difficulties of explaining which page which people should use. We need to make things as simple as possible for the majority of our users.

But as I said, we're definitely aware of the interest and we'll see what we can do. I'm sorry that that's the best I can do for the time being.

Posted by: TiVoPony

Personally, I want a mobile page. And I didn't know that Stephen knew so much about html.

Hmmm...maybe there's a solution sitting right in front of me.

:)

Pony

Posted by: megazone

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
I'm definitely sympathetic (and megazone, I'm familiar with HTML as well), but in talking to the developers and designers, we had some usability issues where a lot of folks had a hard time using the page without having the page automatically update.

Two author credits? ;-)

Ok, cool - then you know you can do the JavaScript *and* just add a button that does the same thing.

Clients with JavaScript get the immediate auto-update. Clients without JavaScript don't, but they can still use the site by hitting the button. One page - works for everyone.

You could even detect JavaScript and if it is working use CSS to hide the button - so only users who need it will see it. Still the same page.

It isn't WML, but it would work for many people. WML would have to be a different solution for the WAP users.

I just don't like to see unnecessary reliance on JavaScript. There are handicapped users who use special user agents who can't use such sites, we've seen how it impacts mobile users, and you also have people who turn off JavaScript for security, or who just don't like it - and sometimes some of us still use lynx, etc. :-) It is such a minor issue on this page, nothing about the current functionality would need to change - just a button that does the same thing for those who don't have JS.

Posted by: megazone

quote:
Originally posted by SteakMan
Damn! I have GOT to write a book, just so I can drop a bomb like that.

You could always work on the guidelines or recommendations - or you could start bydoing something like technical editing a book. You might even get to propose a new feature to a standard. ;-)

Ok, seriously, the TiVo community is loaded with some cool folks - merlyn is around here, and as a perl hacker I think that's really cool. I've actually reconnected with a few people I used to work with because we all ended up buying TiVos and running into each other here or in other TiVo forums. :-)

I thought I recognized Stephen's name, I've seen the book. :-) It just shows that TiVo has some talented folks on board, so fixing the site should be a breeze. ;-)

Posted by: TiVoOpsMgr

Damn! Megazone's outdone me again!

I knew we had met before but couldn't place it. Fortunately Google shows me two places right off the bat:

http://open-systems.ufl.edu/mirrors...music.tori-amos

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public...ec/subject.html

Posted by: doctorc

All I can say that it's great to have you guys here actually listening to your customers. I don't know of many companies who do this anymore, and despite all the suggestions / requests / etc. we make on these boards, please don't forget how important it is to us that you are actually listening, providing feedback, and open to suggestions. We sincerely appreciate this. I have no doubts that if there is something that can be done you guys will do it. Personally, I'd put this feature in the 'nice to have' category, and other features like ability to have an online SP manager, ability to view ToDo list online, screensaver, etc would take a higher priority for me... but that's just my preference, since I can already work with this page using my Treo 300 I'm 99% of the way there in terms of mobile access -- just can't edit the advanced recording options, but not a huge deal there.

I was using HMO again last night (actually my WIFE was, which is a credit to how easy it is to use HMO, not that wifey is dumb, she's a scientist too, but she doesn't like using electronic gadgets) and was just appreciating the fact that it took me all of 2 minutes to set up (well after the long download) and worked perfectly 'out of the box' -- Granted it's a little slim on features for the time being, but I know that will change. Even though I have a whole house AV distribution system installed and can pipe my computer audio and video to every room, control my server with a remote, play my MP3's, DVD's and TiVo in all the bedrooms, living room, kitchen, and theater (and do it using any media player client on the PC that I want to, while viewing it on all the TV's in the house as well, including my 120" FP system) -- I still prefer to use HMO -- sure the features are not nearly as good / flashy as something like WMP9 or WinAmp or <insert favorite media player here> BUT -- it is very easy to use, works every time, doesn't crash, AND my wife can use it the exact same way she uses the TiVo. Bottom line -- if all software worked as advertised like this, so easily, and so flawlessly, I would be willing to pay more for it. I've seen people complain of the $99 price tag for HMO -- it may seem a little steep to some. But consider that the software actually works, it WILL be upgraded over time, and it's being supported with a degree of enthusiasm and efficiency that I've seldom seen (if ever) from any software company or hardware company. I think that even though HMO is not the best media player client out there right now I'm getting a lot for my $99 -- and I think that a portion of this $99 will go towards future enhancements of the product (and heck, if not sell me an upgrade, I'll buy it).

Keep up the good work TiVo. It's refreshing to see a company that still listens to customers and actually tries to implement their suggestions, even if it can't do it in some cases.

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
Twice as much to QA every time we roll out a new version, twice as many URLs to support, and then the difficulties of explaining which page which people should use. We need to make things as simple as possible for the majority of our users.

But as I said, we're definitely aware of the interest and we'll see what we can do. I'm sorry that that's the best I can do for the time being.

Posted by: FoxFireX

quote:
Originally posted by megazone
You could even detect JavaScript and if it is working use CSS to hide the button - so only users who need it will see it. Still the same page.

Heck, why go that far? Just use the exact same <noscript> tags they're using now, but use them for the forces of good. :)

Posted by: JWard

I just want an API that we can use to build our own search pages. (And that TV Guide, and Entertainment Weekly can use also).

Then we can write wap pages, Treo pages, etc.

I think all we really need is cookie uid/pw support and pages where all the links are html instead of javasript.

Posted by: JWard

But I want to add...
THANK YOU TIVO!!! I've been waiting for this since 1999. And I'm thrilled it's finally there.

I think you did the right thing by starting with the something that you were sure would work and keeping it simple.

I'm just lobbying for improvements in the next version. What we have is great.

Posted by: megazone

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
Damn! Megazone's outdone me again!

I knew we had met before but couldn't place it.

Small net. ;-) Yeah, I think we've run into each other in a few places. I dropped out of W3C activity in mid-1998 or so. I was working at GTEI and they started yanking my scheduling around, sending me on trips, etc, and I just couldn't reliably keep up with things. Prior to that I was with Livingston/Lucent and they encouraged participation in standards bodies, so they let me take the time I needed to keep up.

I've been thinking of trying to find a way back into the WGs, it was very interesting work.

I just wish NS and MS hadn't gotten the OPTGROUP watered down in the final drafts - I was really happy to see that when WML picked it up they reverted back to what I meant it to be in the first place. :-)