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Survivor 5/1 (spoilers)
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Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
Wow.
This is going to be the most interesting home stretch ever! For the first time, I have NO clue what ANYBODY is going to do...
Posted by: ufo4sale
twigs and sticks are just as bad as rob. If it is between Rob and one of them I would vote for Rob.
Posted by: scottjf8
I can't believe they voted her out.. She was my favorite to win the show.... Now I'm really fearing it might be Heidi or Jenna, but I think Butch is almost a lock... he hasn't scr*wed anyone over yet.
Posted by: cello
Same here.
And after seeing the previews, I hate them even more. They act all bitchy because others are being two faced, and look at what they're previewing for next week.
I think that Rob has a decent chance against either Jenna or Heidi. Unfortunately, that probably means that Butch or Matt won't make it to the final two.
Over the past few weeks, I've really started to like Matt. He's a good guy. And that's not just based on his reward decision tonight.
Posted by: ufo4sale
I don't care who wins as long as its not the the two girls
Posted by: cello
I think that the remaining players will be smart enough to get jenna or Heidi off next week, if they don't self destruct as the Bobsie Twins first. If it's J and H as two of the top 3, the only way for the last person to get to the top two would be to win that last immunity. The others have got to realize this.
Posted by: Turtleboy
It's her own fault.
All Christie had to do was say yes to Rob, that she would vote off Heidi (or Jenna as it turned out), and he wouldn't have turned on her. She ended up doing it anyway. But she made him have doubts, and he scurried to save his ass.
He's probably the best player since Richard Hatch.
Posted by: Family
quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
It's her own fault.
All Christie had to do was say yes to Rob, that she would vote off Heidi (or Jenna as it turned out), and he wouldn't have turned on her. She ended up doing it anyway. But she made him have doubts, and he scurried to save his ass.
He's probably the best player since Richard Hatch.
And Christy had to be the worst player to make it to the final six ever.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by Family
And Christy had to be the worst player to make it to the final six ever.
Yeah, and she was doing so well up to this week, keeping under the radar. Then, she got cocky and started shooting off her mouth...
I think Butch is the only sure thing to win the final election and everybody knows it, so unless he gets very lucky in the challenges, he's toast. Everybody hates Rob now, but if he can keep playing people off against each other, he might make it to the end--and he could conceivably win against a Bimbo Twin. Matt could probably win against anybody but Butch, and he would seem to have a challenge advantage (he's the only one who still seems to be in good shape). But as I said before, with the way people are shifting, there's no telling what's gonna happen. CBS has to be in heaven.
Posted by: jradosh
I still haven't stopped squirming since Matt said how the dinner with mom was going to be "romantic" :eek:
Christie's farewell speach was a bit revealing. For all her sweetness, she came across as a real nasty, vengeful b*tch in that clip. Again, :eek:
I doubt Butch makes the final two. He was the only one besides Christie that wasn't in on the decision last night. It's interesting that they (the producers) chose not to show how Matt was brought into the decision to oust Christie. Clearly he was or else he would have been voting for Jenna. But who approached him (have to assume it was Rob) and what was the rational used? I'm sorry we didn't get that insight.
Great ep. This should be interesting next week. :D
Posted by: Turtleboy
That whole thing where they said that anyone would have given up the meeting with their family member like Matt did is bullshit.
Jenna and Heidi clearly would not have. I wonder what would have happened it they won. But then again, the producers put forth a challenge where they knew it was impossible for either of them to win.
Posted by: jkeegan
This is one of my favorite seasons of Survivor so far. The only one my wife and I didn't watch was the first one.
It really sucked that Christie was voted off - I liked her a lot. I had a totally different reaction to her final comment than you jradosh, it hurt me that she was so sad she was crying. Argh!
I've also come to like Matt recently, and Butch hasn't hurt anyone so it'd be cool to see him up there too. But Rob deserves this, without a doubt. If Butch or Matt beat him, I'd still be somewhat ok with it because of the underdog factor, but Rob deserves it. Congrats Rob.
Jenna and Heidi..What is there to say? Well, I wish there were more ways on the show for someone to suffer. :) It would have been so sweet if Probost came out and said "Well, we have family members to see almost all of the rest of you.. Matt, go see your mother. Ok, for the rest of you, we had judges off-camera watching to see who reacted most gracefully when the winner won time with their family. Jenna, you cried as usual, using it like a dagger to try to cut Matt up with guilt. So, you can't see anyone. They're right over there though..
Gotta love how many times Heidi has complained about backstabbing, when she went against her whole group earlier in the show by siding with Dave there..
I'm starting to think they shouldn't give anything to people who come in 4th, 3rd, or 2nd. I think it encourages a "well, at least I made it this far" attitude. It should be all or nothing.
I didn't get what Rob was thinking when he held back some of the details from Jenna. Her going back with anything was just as bad.
Damn. I really really liked Christie. :(
Posted by: jeff125va
I agree, Christy totally blew it. How can she be mad at her alliance for turning on her when she was completely wishy-washy about her membership in it?
I was surprised that Rob's justification for why he turned on Alex had to do with Alex not being truthful. In reality, it was his honesty that he'd vote Rob off that prompted Rob to re-align himself with the others. Of course he could have said that, but I'd be equally surprised that they edited it out if he did in fact mention it. That seemed pretty key to me.
Jradosh, I think the reason that they didn't show Rob (or whoever, but I'm sure Rob) let Matt in on the Christy ouster was just to leave us in some suspense. If they showed that it would have been obvious that there were four solid votes for her. I don't even recall them showing Matt at all during the tribal council (aside from him casting his vote of course). I don't think there would have been much to it anyway, she was showing signs of a possible flip-flop and they just weren't gonna take any chances.
I think Matt sees that Rob knows how to play the game, and figures he can ride his coattails long enough to challenge him near the end. In other words, I think he'd take his chances trusting Rob and pretty much go along with whatever he said if he's including him in his alliances. And, it's not gonna hurt him that he's NOT the guy who's been screwing people over, rather the guy who let everyone see their loved ones.
So how many people have we seen so far declare their safety at tribal council then get voted off? Roger, Deena, Alex, Christy... And did anyone notice Christy telling her boyfriend that she's gonna be in the final four? I think she started enjoying her new "power" just a little too much for her own good.
Posted by: IJustLikeTivo
I am so tired of the twigs saying how hard they worked and they deserve to be where they are. In reality, never have two people made it so far while doing less of the work than they did. Even when they were rebuilding the shelter for the rain tonight, while Christy was out getting palm fronds, the twigs were standing and watching as usual.
As for the crying this with Jenna, that comment was right on. Never has someone used their sex more than she does. She plays the poor poor pitlful me card every damn episode and then claims she doesn't think she is. She has gotten her way with men her whole life that way and she damn well knows it or she wouldn't do it. Both of them are hypocrites of the first order and do not deserve to win a dime. Not one thin dime.
I was a bit surpised as what Christy said, but she was surprised so I would personally cut her a bit of slack. She got to big for her britches and she paid the price. She might have convinved Matt to change his vote right then, who knows.
In any case, great episode.
IJLT
Posted by: Chippy
quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan
I'm starting to think they shouldn't give anything to people who come in 4th, 3rd, or 2nd. I think it encourages a "well, at least I made it this far" attitude. It should be all or nothing.
Unless things have changed within the past couple of Survivors, IIRC, the 2nd place finisher gets $100,000. Third or fourth place gets nothing. At least, that's what I remember Probst mentioning. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
What was up with Jenna giving away immunity to Heidi? She said it was "strategy," but I don't see what the strategy was. The people who were going to vote for Heidi were obviously just going to switch their votes to Jenna.
I loved all those subliminal snake shots right before they cut away to scenes with Rob or Heidi! How appropriate!
As someone else mentioned, I'd be happy if any of the remaining players won the $1 million, except Jenna and Heidi. Next week's episode will be interesting, to see whether the preview of Heidi contemplating getting rid of Jenna is true.....especially since they were both so adamant tonight that they'd never backstab their friends to win the money.:rolleyes:
Can't wait till the finale on Sunday night! Speaking of which, anyone know why it's being aired on Sunday, instead of the usual Thursday?
Posted by: brianric
quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
Can't wait till the finale on Sunday night! Speaking of which, anyone know why it's being aired on Sunday, instead of the usual Thursday?
I just checked my To Do List, both are set to record. I got to check my Replay and ensure that is set to record, then program the VCR. Tivo and Replay on UPS. I take my Survivor seriously. Of all the Survivors I've seen (2 through 6) this one is the best.
Posted by: IJustLikeTivo
quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
Unless things have changed within the past couple of Survivors, IIRC, the 2nd place finisher gets $100,000. Third or fourth place gets nothing. At least, that's what I remember Probst mentioning. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't remember where I read it but around the time the first one ended, it was mentioned that they were each paid for their time. The longer you lasted, the more you made. I did a quick search and I could find was a mention that CBS confirmed that the first one voted off in survivor 2 got 2500 and the second place got 100K. Everyone else got something in the middle. From a labor perspective, they probably sign actors equity contracts which gaurantee a certain amount per day. (Around $400 minimum I seem to recall ) Based on that, they must be being paid some kind of graduated scale no matter what.
IJLT
Posted by: TeeSee
I read on alt.tv.survivor that they do indeed get a relatively small amount of money based on how long they stay in the game, starting on the first day.
Posted by: TeeSee
quote:
Originally posted by jradosh
Christie's farewell speach was a bit revealing. For all her sweetness, she came across as a real nasty, vengeful b*tch in that clip. Again, :eek:
I think she was mad at herself, and took it out on two very easy targets (the "evil stepsisters"). She was gold prior to her pulling the rug out from under the alliance at the last minute. I can imagine how dumb moves like that can lead to some very sour grapes.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
What I thought was interesting about all three women is that they all blew it badly (misjudged people, thought they were running the show, got arrogant), and then blamed everybody else for it. They all seemed to have a feeling of entitlement--that they should be allowed to control the game, and that it simply wasn't fair when they found out that they WEREN'T controlling the game.
I think it will be VERY interesting to see them on the finale, and see if they're at all embarrassed by how they came across.
Posted by: brahamt
Really loved this episode. I had no idea what was going on, and by the end was sure it was Rob that would be voted off. I thought he waffled on his decisions too much. I did know Christy would be in trouble for her waffling, but not this soon. Then when she made the comment about being in power, I said, OK, she's done.
Now, will everyone be smart and start voting out the people who are nice (e.g. Butch and possibly Matt). Clearly Rob has started thinking this way, but it might be hard to convince the others. I am consistently amazed at how stupid and arbitrary some of the decisions made on Survivor. That said, this group I think have made some pretty decent decisions so far. Other the Butch, no one is the clear favorite. Everyone has a reason to not like them, which is why this has been the most interesting Survivor since the 1st.
Posted by: jradosh
BTW, I just loved Rob's comment at the tribal council. Jenna and Heidi went on about how hard it was to get respect, and that they had to work twice as hard (!?!?) at it, just because they were attractive and people didn't take them seriously. So Rob sez "yeah, I didn't have to suffer through that problem like those two". :p Classic!
Posted by: Turtleboy
I really despise Jenna and HeDDi (TM TWOP). Rob is competely self aware of his deviousness and his evilosity.
J & H actually think that they are decent people, when in fact they are horrible despicable biatches.
Posted by: laria
This episode was great. I have loved Rob since the beginning, and he is just more entertaining as the weeks go on. :) I love Survivor, and I've watched every one since the beginning, but all these people who go on and on about how they played the game with integrity and yada yada yada...sorry, but that's boring TV! No one wants to see everyone give each other warm fuzzies for 39 days.
I think he has a decent shot if he can pull Jenna or Heidi in with him to the final 2. Sure, he screwed over Deena, Alex, and Christy, but he hasn't screwed over Matt or Butch really (yet). But Christy has said she will do what she can to keep Jenna/Heidi from winning, and I don't think Dave has any real personal beef with Rob.
Posted by: TreborPugly
I'm with jradosh on Rob's tribal council comment about not having the disadvantage of being handsome. That was definitely worthy of a replay or two!
And I thought it was amazing how Christy blamed all of this on the girls, when it should be obvious to her that Rob was the true betrayer. The other girls were only two, they didn't have the strength of position to betray anyone. However, Christy should also accept a fair amount of blame for not choosing clearly ahead of time. I think she'd already made up her mind since she voted so quickly for Jenna.
The other great thing is that Rob's original suggestion to Jenna and then her report about it to everyone else reminded everyone else that it is in their best interest to be with someone they can beat in the final two. After that display of his dishonesty, pretty much everyone is saying, "I can beat Rob in the final two!"
And he easily convinced Matthew to vote for Christy with that same argument probably. Christy in the final two would have been a very strong opponent.
Treb.
Posted by: pmyers
A few thoughts:
Great episode.
I'm not sure why Rob just didn't tell J & H that the reason he voted off Alex was that he told him that when it came to them being in the final 4 that Alex told him that he (Rob) would be the first to go, so what was he suppose to do? Seemed a good time to actually tell the truth.
Rob also should have just said that what he told Jenna was that the only person that he thought he could win against in the final 2 was Jenna...not that he wanted to take Jenna to the final 2.
I think Christy screwed herself. She got put into a position of power which she has probably never had in her life and got cocky about it. I think she knew all along she was going to vote for Rob but just wanted to stay in that power position as long as possible. So Rob just made other plans.
J & H just make me sick. Rob is hilarious!
Posted by: Chris Roberts
Why do people think Rob should win? He's not really a good player. Sure he can make alliances and get himself further in the game, possibly to the end, but part of winning is convincing the jury to vote for you over someone else (Probst even mentioned this). Rob was at the top of the alliances that voted out Dave, Deena, Alex, and Christy. He clearly betrayed Deena, and arguably betrayed Alex and Christy. He was at the head of the alliance that voted Dave out and I don't think he ever made friends with Dave at any point. The jury people talk to each other and once either Jenna or Heidi get onto the jury they will easily be swayed against Rob because they don't like his backstabbing and have realized what a dork and jerk he really is. So Rob has not played the game well because he has not made good relationships with people in order to get their votes at the end.
Jenna - won't vote for Rob
Heidi - won't vote for Rob
Deena - probably won't vote for Rob
Alex - probably will vote the same as Jenna or Heidi which means won't vote for Rob
Christy - won't vote for Jenna or Heidi, but may vote for Rob unless there is Matthew or Butch as choices
Butch - won't vote for Rob if there's a more honest choice
Matthew - would vote for Rob
Dave - ?
Posted by: laria
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
And I thought it was amazing how Christy blamed all of this on the girls, when it should be obvious to her that Rob was the true betrayer. The other girls were only two, they didn't have the strength of position to betray anyone.
I don't think Christy was upset that they betrayed her, she is upset at the way they treated her like dirt through the whole game and then only wanted to be her friend when they wanted something from her.
Posted by: Sarahbelle18
A lot of you have made some very good points. I'm so excited about the finale! I can't wait!
Posted by: Turtleboy
Rob can win, if they are honest.
All he has to to and get up and say, "Sure I lied. I deceieved. I backstabbed. I manipulated. But I played that game. That's how the game is played, and I played better than everyone else. Therefore, I deserve to win."
Posted by: keirgrey
Yep, TB has it right, IMO. Outwit, Outplay, Out Last. If he makes it to the end, he's done all three. If they're honest and not just eating sour grapes, he'll win.
Posted by: pmyers
ahhh...the great Survivor dicodomy (spelling?). Do you play "honestly" or do you do whatever you have to to get to the final two?
Personally, I take Outwit, Outplay, Out Last to mean do whatever you have to do to get yourself in the final 2 with a person you have a good chance of beating. I think Rob is playing that game very well.
Posted by: brianric
quote:
Originally posted by greykey
Yep, TB has it right, IMO. Outwit, Outplay, Out Last. If he makes it to the end, he's done all three. If they're honest and not just eating sour grapes, he'll win.
Ditto.
Posted by: Family
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Roberts
Why do people think Rob should win? He's not really a good player. Sure he can make alliances and get himself further in the game, possibly to the end, but part of winning is convincing the jury to vote for you over someone else (Probst even mentioned this). Rob was at the top of the alliances that voted out Dave, Deena, Alex, and Christy. He clearly betrayed Deena, and arguably betrayed Alex and Christy. He was at the head of the alliance that voted Dave out and I don't think he ever made friends with Dave at any point. The jury people talk to each other and once either Jenna or Heidi get onto the jury they will easily be swayed against Rob because they don't like his backstabbing and have realized what a dork and jerk he really is. So Rob has not played the game well because he has not made good relationships with people in order to get their votes at the end.
Jenna - won't vote for Rob
Heidi - won't vote for Rob
Deena - probably won't vote for Rob
Alex - probably will vote the same as Jenna or Heidi which means won't vote for Rob
Christy - won't vote for Jenna or Heidi, but may vote for Rob unless there is Matthew or Butch as choices
Butch - won't vote for Rob if there's a more honest choice
Matthew - would vote for Rob
Dave - ?
I agree that Rob probably won't win, but I think he has played the game as well as anyone. A lot of Survivor is luck. Remember Rob chose Deena to be his ultimate alliance. It wasn't his fault that she got power hungry and became pushy. In fact early Deena took a bit of a back seat... not wanting to be crowned leader of the female tribe early on. She just got caught up in the game... much like Christy did last nite. I think Deena was a good choice at the time... no one could foresee her personality switch. Rob only turned on Deena when he realized that he could not save her.
I can't recall another player who has survived the early loss of the person he/she has most aligned with and gone far, but Rob never missed stride. He's backstabbed people and that will likely cost him dearly, but really the challenge hasn't fallen the way he planned. If it did I think he'd be in total control. As it is Rob recognizes that the only chance he has in the final two is with Jenna and he has a shot to pull that off if he can convince Matthew/Butch to vote Heidi off next week. Against Jenna... Rob would get Matthew/Christy/Butch's votes and could conceivable get one of Dave/Deena. Remember it was Jenna who orchestrated Deena's ousting. Who do you think will do the better sales job on Deena between Rob/Jenna if they both have to explain themselves during the final two?
Posted by: Philosofy
I think Rob has a great speech already prepared if he gets to the final two. ie, explaining to Alex he betrayed him because Alex told him there was no way he could win. Only Matt and Butch can beat Rob at this point, and Butch definitely has a bullseye on his back for next week. I think Matt will do well in immunity challenges from now on, and besides, they need him for food.
Posted by: JFriday
I don't think Rob will make it to the finals. I think the girls will get
revenge for Alex. Rob has overplayed his hand. The girls aren't
smart enough to realize Rob should be the one to take to the final.
Posted by: TreborPugly
Okay here's my new endgame theory with respect to the major spoiler of CBS employees betting on the final two:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Rob manages to get to the final three with Jenna and Matthew because he is actually working on the Jenna in the final two with him, but telling Matthew that he's not. When it is down to the final three, Jenna wins immunity and votes Rob off because she hates him, not because she think she has a better chance with Matt. Or, (and this would be great) Matt wins immunity and makes the proper choice of going to the final two with Jenna who everyone except Heidi hates.
Treb.
Posted by: Chris Roberts
quote:
can't recall another player who has survived the early loss of the person he/she has most aligned with and gone far, but Rob never missed stride.
Matthew allied with Daniel early on and still got this far after Daniel was voted out. In my opinion Matthew has played the game better than Rob. He's gotten just as far in the game (and can go all the way), but not at the cost of his personal relationships with people. He may not be friends with anyone, but he hasn't pissed anyone off either. I think that is the biggest trick to Survivor. You can backstab and lie a lot, but you have to do it without making enemies. Rob has made enemies and pissed people off. Matthew and Butch have not really done that and have just as much a chance of getting to the final two as Rob does. So they are better players than Rob.
At this point I'm thinking that Jenna or Heidi will win the final prize. Somehow it just seems appropriate to the popularity contest that Survivor is for one of the two prom queens to win. Besides, you know that Jenna will cry at the end and Probst will say "We've never done this before, but I'm going to offer a chance for a jury member to win the final prize." or something since he always seems to fall for her whining. Either that or he'll just give her the final immunity when she cries. O_o
Posted by: jradosh
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
Okay here's my new endgame theory with respect to the major spoiler of CBS employees betting on the final two:
Thank you for using spoiler tags. But at the risk that someone might follow-up to this post without such tags, could we possibly move this (i.e. delete and repost) to another thread that isn't supposed to be about last night's show?
Thanks, :)
J
Posted by: pmyers
Treb...I think your 2nd scenario is how it plays out.
Posted by: ufo4sale
it it's between the girls and Rob then Rob will probably win. Rob defintly worked harder to get where he is then either one of them. The girls did nothing to help out the tribe. at least Rob did something
Posted by: pmyers
btw...I still can't get over the fact that Heidi bid against Jenna in the last episode where they did the auction for the letter from home.....what a great friend.
Posted by: jeff125va
I have to wonder (partially based on the previews, which I know can be deceiving, but even regardless of that) whether the girls' alliance will stand until the end. Christy seemed to realize that it would be pointless to be in the final three with them, knowing they'd try to keep her out of the final two. J or H might realize that being so solidly aligned with one other person makes them each a target for elimination. As we've been seeing, anything can happen.
I was getting sick of hearing the girls go on last night about Rob not caring about personal relationships and ethics and morals. They're playing a game. So if I'm playing basketball with one of my friends, and he fakes me out so he can score, I'm supposed to terminate the friendship? I see no difference between that and what Rob's been doing. Beyond voting against someone in the final vote, there's no justification for holding a grudge for being deceived or backstabbed or whatever. Anyone who isn't prepared to do that and have it done to them shouldn't be on the show in the first place.
I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Rob has lost Jenna and Heidi's jury vote. To go from the way those girls were so mad at him at the beginning, to getting them to align with him and vote for Christy, he's shown he is a master at this game. They might just have enough time to get over what he did to Alex, and realize that for $1M, Rob's way of playing might not be so bad after all...
Posted by: VegasVic
quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
I was getting sick of hearing the girls go on last night about Rob not caring about personal relationships and ethics and morals. They're playing a game. So if I'm playing basketball with one of my friends, and he fakes me out so he can score, I'm supposed to terminate the friendship? I see no difference between that and what Rob's been doing. Beyond voting against someone in the final vote, there's no justification for holding a grudge for being deceived or backstabbed or whatever. Anyone who isn't prepared to do that and have it done to them shouldn't be on the show in the first place.
Exactly. It's just like a poker game.
Posted by: Ebenezer
Did anyone read the transcript of Christy's last words at CBS's website?
From CBS:
I am pissed off--so pissed off! I didn't deserve to be voted out--I didn't! So, what goes around comes around? Is that what the case is? I developed trust, and I knew from day one, don't trust anybody. So if you're going to be on SURVIVOR, just don't trust anybody, and try to play the game however the game is supposed to be played.
Bravo, bravo! I made it 33 days: yay! That's a big accomplishment, a BIG accomplishment.
Didn't she make a comment about not letting the "evil stepsisters" win? Why would CBS edit this out? We block Real Audio at the office, so I can't play the video to see if this comment has been edited out of there too.
Posted by: Chris Roberts
quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
I was getting sick of hearing the girls go on last night about Rob not caring about personal relationships and ethics and morals. They're playing a game. So if I'm playing basketball with one of my friends, and he fakes me out so he can score, I'm supposed to terminate the friendship? I see no difference between that and what Rob's been doing. Beyond voting against someone in the final vote, there's no justification for holding a grudge for being deceived or backstabbed or whatever. Anyone who isn't prepared to do that and have it done to them shouldn't be on the show in the first place.
What about people like Tina who played honestly and still got to the end (and won in her case)? My point being that its been proven you don't actually need to lie and backstab everyone to get to the end. If that was the only way to win the game would suck because nobody would ever trust anyone else and we'd watch a damn boring show. There are multiple ways to play. The game is designed that way.
I do agree that people shouldn't hold a grudge, but I'm also not naieve enough to think they won't. The final two both were able to further themselves in the game somehow. The one who's done it while making the least enemies is the one who actually deserves to win in my opinion because Survivor is as much about getting the jury to vote for you as it is about making it to the end.
Posted by: laria
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
btw...I still can't get over the fact that Heidi bid against Jenna in the last episode where they did the auction for the letter from home.....what a great friend.
I got the impression that Heidi was trying to bid higher to keep someone else from winning, because Jenna didn't have much money left.
Posted by: phodg
As someone mentioned earlier, I thought the most amazing part of the night was Jenna's comment that she had to work twice as hard as anyone else to get anywhere because she was good looking. And she said that with a straight face - and a physically handicapped (hearing-wise) girl sitting right in front of her ! How self-centered can you get ?
I didn't like her before last night. Can't stand her now !!
Posted by: KRS
I liked Matt's "I felt like a God" comment (when referring to his letting the others see their families).
Rob is the best player, in my opinion, and continues the Survivor tradition of being upfront about playing the game. From Richard Hatch to last season's porno guy, most of the winners have come out on top at the final jury when the others saw how well the game had been played.
The only other way to win is to fly under the radar until the very end (V), or, in the case of Tina, have the game handed to you with a ribbon on top.
This is the best final 5 yet (even though I had hoped to see Christie in the group).
Posted by: jeff125va
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Roberts
What about people like Tina who played honestly and still got to the end (and won in her case)? My point being that its been proven you don't actually need to lie and backstab everyone to get to the end. If that was the only way to win the game would suck because nobody would ever trust anyone else and we'd watch a damn boring show. There are multiple ways to play. The game is designed that way.
I do agree that people shouldn't hold a grudge, but I'm also not naieve enough to think they won't. The final two both were able to further themselves in the game somehow. The one who's done it while making the least enemies is the one who actually deserves to win in my opinion because Survivor is as much about getting the jury to vote for you as it is about making it to the end.
You're right that it doesn't have to be played that way every season. But IIRC, at the end she and Colby said that they had had an alliance to get to the final two from the very beginning, and it seems that that was kept secret from the broader alliance. For example, she was never up-front with the third-place guy from that season (Keith? the chef I think?) that they didn't really like him, and were just stringing him along to their own advantage. She also simply wasn't put into a position where she needed to play it as aggressively as Rob. He's been seeing the writing on the wall with Deena, Alex, and Christy, and has done what it's taken to stay alive.
By looking at it from Colby's standpoint, I could use the same example to support the point that failure to back-stab can lose you the game. Colby decided to stay loyal to his alliance with Tina, instead of improving his odds tremendously by going against Keith with the jury. And he missed out on $900,000.
Either way, my main point is that it's a game. You should be prepared that deception might be part of it, and if you want to make some friendships along the way, keep in mind that they're also your opponents in a game, and don't hold it against them as friends for playing to win.
As far as trying to play the game the way Rob or Richard has, without making enemies, there have been plenty of people who have, as jurors, voted for someone who pretty much screwed them over. They realized it's part of the game and respected how well the person played it, even at the juror's own expense. The Susan Hawks have definitely been in the minority.
I'd much rather watch a game where someone plays aggressively to win than just watching a popularity vote week after week. This has been my favorite season to watch since the first, precisely because there's been so much strategic maneuvering. I don't think anyone would have predicted at the beginning of last week's show, that Alex and Christy to be the next two gone. And I think most people assumed either Heidi or Jenna would have been gone last night.
Posted by: pmyers
quote:
Originally posted by Ebenezer
Did anyone read the transcript of Christy's last words at CBS's website?
From CBS:
I am pissed off--so pissed off! I didn't deserve to be voted out--I didn't! So, what goes around comes around? Is that what the case is? I developed trust, and I knew from day one, don't trust anybody. So if you're going to be on SURVIVOR, just don't trust anybody, and try to play the game however the game is supposed to be played.
Bravo, bravo! I made it 33 days: yay! That's a big accomplishment, a BIG accomplishment.
Didn't she make a comment about not letting the "evil stepsisters" win? Why would CBS edit this out? We block Real Audio at the office, so I can't play the video to see if this comment has been edited out of there too.
I didn't see here words last night, but the video clip on CBS' website just shows exactly the words you posted. There does seem to be a section in the middle that looks as if something was cut out.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by cello
Same here.
And after seeing the previews, I hate them even more. They act all bitchy because others are being two faced, and look at what they're previewing for next week.
I think that Rob has a decent chance against either Jenna or Heidi. Unfortunately, that probably means that Butch or Matt won't make it to the final two.
Over the past few weeks, I've really started to like Matt. He's a good guy. And that's not just based on his reward decision tonight.
Rob hasn't got a chance against anybody, he's managed to screw over everyone in the jury.
Posted by: keirgrey
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
Rob hasn't got a chance against anybody, he's managed to screw over everyone in the jury.
But then again, no one thought Richard Hatch had a chance either. Not that this jury will swing the same way, but as it's been pointed out here, some people will come down on his side for his sheer gall.
Posted by: pmyers
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
Rob hasn't got a chance against anybody, he's managed to screw over everyone in the jury.
And Survivor history has already proved you wrong.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
Rob can win, if they are honest.
All he has to to and get up and say, "Sure I lied. I deceieved. I backstabbed. I manipulated. But I played that game. That's how the game is played, and I played better than everyone else. Therefore, I deserve to win."
And the other player get's up and says " I didn't have to lie. I didn't have to backstab. " Depends on if this will be a best player or best person year.
Me, I'm figuring it'll be best person, based on who will be in the jury.
Posted by: pmyers
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
And the other player get's up and says " I didn't have to lie. I didn't have to backstab. " .....
And then Rob says "yeah, you didn't do anything. You let everybody else do the work while you sat there and looked pretty or cried"
Frankly I'd like to see Rob Vs Jenna because I think Rob would out debate her in a heartbeat to get votes.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
And Survivor history has already proved you wrong.
More right than wrong, as I remember (but I'm old and my memory may be faulty). Vecepia didn't. Tina didn't. Ethan didn't. Hatch did but he won solely because of Susan carrying her grudge (I bet she still does). Brian manipulated but not to the same extent Rob has.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by greykey
But then again, no one thought Richard Hatch had a chance either. Not that this jury will swing the same way, but as it's been pointed out here, some people will come down on his side for his sheer gall.
Hatch won because Susan despised Kelly more than Richard. He also won because Kelly thought she had a chance against him, when she knew she didn't have a chance against Rudy.
Posted by: Crrink
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
I didn't see here words last night, but the video clip on CBS' website just shows exactly the words you posted. There does seem to be a section in the middle that looks as if something was cut out.
She also said something about being a role model - does CBS routinely edit the final comments??
Posted by: keirgrey
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
Hatch won because Susan despised Kelly more than Richard. He also won because Kelly thought she had a chance against him, when she knew she didn't have a chance against Rudy.
Exactly so. But the jurors (apart from Susan and the guy who asked them to pick a number) looked at who had played the game better and voted accordingly. Hatch told them from the beginning that he was going to do whatever it took to win.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
She also said something about being a role model - does CBS routinely edit the final comments??
Courtesy of my Tivo, she said
"I am pissed off--so pissed off! I didn't deserve to be voted out--I didn't! So, what goes around comes around? Is that what the case is? I developed trust, and I knew from day one, don't trust anybody. So if you're going to be on SURVIVOR, just don't trust anybody, and try to play the game however the game is supposed to be played.
I came in here knowing that I'm a role model and I can make a difference. I am going to make sure that those evil freaking step-sisters of mine are not going to win the million dollars."
She did not say (from the CBS site, mentioned earlier):
Bravo, bravo! I made it 33 days: yay! That's a big accomplishment, a BIG accomplishment.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by greykey
Exactly so. But the jurors (apart from Susan and the guy who asked them to pick a number) looked at who had played the game better and voted accordingly. Hatch told them from the beginning that he was going to do whatever it took to win.
The vote was 4 to 3. If the random vote (pick a number 1 to 10) went the other way, would every one still believe Richard deserved to win? Doubt it.
One vote decided the first game. Random or hatred aside, the game could've had a completely different outcome, no matter what the other players felt about how it was played.
Posted by: laria
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
She did not say (from the CBS site, mentioned earlier):
Bravo, bravo! I made it 33 days: yay! That's a big accomplishment, a BIG accomplishment.
They edit the final comments to fit within a certain length. Quite often there is more on the CBS site than they actually said on the show.
Posted by: DLiquid
Wow, this was a very good episode, I can't remember a better single episode from any season. Things have just gotten very unpredictable (whoever posted this season is predictable a few weeks ago has hopefully come to their senses). Every single booted player in the jury has been totally blindsided. Great stuff!
Rob is a true master of the game. He is playing the game the way many people try to play, but most who try to play this way get booted early. And I don't know that a lying, backstabbing player has ever turned on this many people. So far he's betrayed every single one of the jury members. Haha! Sure, that could lose him votes in the final two, but this strategy is what's been getting him closer to the final two. Most of the other players are there mostly because of luck, Rob is not. But I think he's shown his hand too much, and I can't see him surviving to the final two without some immunities in there.
That was classic how Matt was totally drunk when his mom showed up! :p
I can't wait for the final two episodes, I'm cool with anyone winning but Jenna and Heidi. I've never liked either of them, and they're getting more and more unlikeable every week. I'd like to see Matt win, since he's done a decent job of playing the game despite being very clueless. I wouldn't mind seeing Butch win it either, as he's played the "under the radar" strategy almost flawlessly. Of course, I'm really rooting for weasel Rob at this point, if for nothing else just to see the jury questioning for the final vote. :D
Posted by: Jayjoans
best part of the whole show:
At the start of the reward challenge, when Probst yells GO, all survivors take off running for the canoes, watch Matt stumble and literally fall on his face with his arms at his side into the sand. We rolled on the floor laughing, his face acts like a diesel snowplow ramming into a berm of newly fallen snow...
Oh yeah, and ditto on everything else everybody said above....
Posted by: keirgrey
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
The vote was 4 to 3. If the random vote (pick a number 1 to 10) went the other way, would every one still believe Richard deserved to win? Doubt it.
Probably not, but that's what makes the speculation such fun. I'm looking forward to next Sunday.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by greykey
Probably not, but that's what makes the speculation such fun. I'm looking forward to next Sunday.
The day someone gets all 7 jury votes is the day we get a true Survivor Master...
Next Sunday should be interesting.
Posted by: DLiquid
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
The day someone gets all 7 jury votes is the day we get a true Survivor Master...
Either that or the other finalist pissed off the the 7 jury members so much they all voted against him/her.
Posted by: Ebenezer
quote:
Originally posted by laria
They edit the final comments to fit within a certain length. Quite often there is more on the CBS site than they actually said on the show.
Exactly! This is totally why I went to CBS' site this morning so that I could read the entire transcript. It seemed like she was going to be on a roll and that the whole transcript would have been very entertaining to read. I'm very disappointed that they edited what is shown on their website. :mad:
Posted by: pmyers
Here is something I found on another board discussing Survivor. It's an interview done with Alex after he got booted off. I think it sheds a little light on the whole plan nice/do whatever debate going on. I'll put it in spoilers just to be on the safe side, though it doesn't give anything a way.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Alex too honest for own good
"Survivor: Amazon" 8 tonight Channel 5
HONESTY proved not to be the best policy for Alameda High grad Alex Bell.
Alex got the boot last week on "Survivor: Amazon," making him the last of the three Bay Area contestants to leave the jungle. The episode was the second-highest rated program for the week in the Bay Area.
Alex seemed to be a shoo-in for a final four spot with Jenna Morasca, Heidi Strobel and Rob Cesternino. The four had an alliance and could have easily picked off the other three: Christy Smith, Butch Lockley and Matthew von Ertfelda.
But then Alex told Rob that when it got down to the final four, Rob would be the first voted off. Rob decided to turn traitor.
Effervescent Alex called after the show aired to talk about his experiences. Even through the phone line, Alex puts out a personality jolt that makes a double-shot of Starbucks seem like a sleeping pill.
"Did we know (Rob) was a weasel? We had no idea. And it wasn't until I got back and watched the show that I realized he was a snake from the beginning," Alex says. "(Being honest) came back to bite me with Rob, but I have no regrets. I wake up every morning knowing that I don't have to apologize. I'm the one who told Matthew we were voting him out, the one who told Dave (Johnson) he had three more days ... I've always been honest. "
Well, except when it comes to a fellow East Bay guy, Skyline High grad Roger Sexton. Roger thought he had an unbreakable alliance with the men and that they would slowly pick off the women. But Roger underestimated how much he had irritated his fellow players. Smug Roger never saw the ax coming down until the final vote was counted.
"Now, come on. How funny was that?" Alex says with an explosive laugh. "That had to be the funniest episode ever. He was such a jerk to a lot of people -- although I have to say, not to me. He thought he was running the show. Even his own daughter said he would be his own worst enemy, and he was."
But the charming devil had to admit that he hasn't exactly come off well himself in the last few episodes. Alex and his buddies were depicted as lazy and just as smug as Roger about their final spots.
In truth, Alex says, he was in charge of chopping the wood for the fire and his teammates did the cooking. But that was never shown on TV.
"Notice you never saw us eating, because then they would have had to have shown Jenna, Heidi and Rob cooking," Alex says. "And in that last episode when Jenna was reading her letter from home and you heard a machete chopping in the background, that was me. But they never showed that part."
"Survivor" shoots for three days, then edits the tape into the hour-long -- with commercials -- show. In the process, the editors craft the show so that certain characteristics are emphasized to make it more like a scripted soap opera. It's a process that has made the show a consistent top-five ratings winner.
"Let's be honest, a lot happens in those three days of shooting that never gets into the weekly program," Alex says. "That stuff (they use) makes for good TV, and we're getting dogged for it."
Alex says Heidi and Jenna have borne the brunt of the bad comments, which isn't fair.
"That editing really sways the way people are shown. They are both really cool, smart, strong, independent, free-thinking women," Alex says. "Jenna is a swimsuit model, but she doesn't have an agent. She has gotten her jobs from Venus to Stuff all on her own, plus going to school and taking care of her mom (who has cancer). That's someone who puts forth a lot of effort in her life and to pigeonhole her as a bimbo is wrong.
"And they don't show that Heidi has multiple college degrees, is a marathon runner and also takes care of her little sister. It's unfortunate that people haven't been able to see that side of them."
And how about the other woman, Christy Smith?
"Christy is nowhere close to the victim that comes across on TV," Alex says of the deaf competitor. "She's very tough. She's an outdoor guide and has overcome a lot. She's committed to the deaf community and none of that comes across very well, either."
On the other hand, Alex says for the most part "they've been incredibly fair to me."
So now that we're coming clean, how quickly will he get back in touch with his "Survivor" love connection Shawna Mitchell, the Redwood City player?
"We haven't been in touch. I actually have a girlfriend, not related to this or any other 'Survivor,'" Alex says. "She wasn't my girlfriend when I went on the show. I was completely single then. But I've been dating (this girlfriend) since I've been home and it is very, very good."
Alex, who was living in Los Angeles before "Survivor," is back in L.A. working for Team in Training, a fund-raiser for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
"Being on 'Survivor' was amazing. It was a life-changing, time-of-my-life experience," Alex says. "I had a great time and I can't say anything negative about it. I didn't take it personally, although I was surprised at what Christy and Matthew said when they were voting me off. I need to talk to them."
As for his final vote, Alex says it would go to the person who played the game the best.
"Like I said, I never took the game personally," Alex says. "Rob is now playing brilliantly and showed that there is obviously more than one strategy. It just goes to show that there are definitely lots of ways to go about playing this game."
Posted by: DLiquid
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
Here is something I found on another board discussing Survivor. It's an interview done with Alex after he got booted off. I think it sheds a little light on the whole plan nice/do whatever debate going on. I'll put it in spoilers just to be on the safe side, though it doesn't give anything a way.
Although it doesn't give away the final two, it gives away how Alex voted in the final vote. He said something very similar in his Early Show interview. I'm surprised they're allowed to say things like this.
Posted by: Chris Roberts
As I said before, its not that everyone can't lie and backstab. The trick is to get away with it when its time for the jury to vote. The main thing that makes Survivor interesting to me at all is the fact that the people you might betray now will be the ones who decide if you win later. If you ignore that part of the equation then you are a fool and you don't deserve to win. Richard Hatch did lie to many people and was a jerk, but he never really got anyone mad at him. Most people didn't know he was a snake until after the show aired. That is the difference between him and Rob. Richard understood what it meant to have a jury vote for you later and Rob thinks he does, but really he doesn't. If he tries to use the "vote for me based on how well I played the game" speech he will lose.
Also, Rob isn't any better of a player than the person next to him in the final two. It doesn't matter how you get there (backstabbing or several immunities). Anyone who makes it to the final two has earned their 1 in 2 chance at the prize just as much as the other. The game-breaker is how well you've gotten the jury on your side.
Posted by: DLiquid
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Roberts
Richard Hatch did lie to many people and was a jerk, but he never really got anyone mad at him. Most people didn't know he was a snake until after the show aired. That is the difference between him and Rob.
You think? From the article posted above:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
"Did we know (Rob) was a weasel? We had no idea. And it wasn't until I got back and watched the show that I realized he was a snake from the beginning," Alex says.
:D
Posted by: KRS
Thanks for the heads up about that hidden interview DLiquid - I almost read it, but would rather stay in the dark entirely. I may have to stop reading these threads - the only time I have had the game spoiled for me was S: Africa.
At the very end of Survivor: Africa, I had to go to MacWorld and had the final 2 episodes waiting for me at home. I managed to avoid all Survivor information until the plane ride home. The lady sitting next to me on the plane asked if I watched Survivor. I said yes, immediately following that with "I haven't seen the results yet, so don't tell me anything about who wins please." The lady looked disappointed, probably wanting to talk Survivor for hours (SF to Boston flight). She still couldn't resist telling me she knew the winner personally since "he" grew up in her hometown of Lexington, MA.
---------D'oh-----------
That was all the info I needed - early in the episode, it flashed "Lexington, MA" below Ethan's picture and the rest was ruined. Thanks a lot, lady!
I now have a nice pair of noise cancelling headphones and am not afraid to use them!
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by DLiquid
Although it doesn't give away the final two, it gives away how Alex voted in the final vote. He said something very similar in his Early Show interview. I'm surprised they're allowed to say things like this.
You're reading far too much into the quote. Because either of the final two could be argued met his final vote criteria. There's another thread on these boards that indicates who the final two are, and why.
I will say, if that thread is right, I know how we get to the final two, now.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by DLiquid
You think? From the article posted above:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
"Did we know (Rob) was a weasel? We had no idea. And it wasn't until I got back and watched the show that I realized he was a snake from the beginning," Alex says.
:D
Oh, Heidi and Jenna made it quite clear, last night, what they thought of Rob. And then they cut a deal with him....
Yeah, the two of them are ever so much better than him...
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