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DVD Recorders
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Posted by: relieb

Hi all,

I am in the market for a DVD recorder to archive my old TiVo recordings, and the VCR will no longer cut the mustard. I am considering two models, the Panasonic DMR-E30S and the Philips DVDR985. I am leaning towards the Panasonic, due in part to its smaller size and DVD-R recording capabilities, which I understand to be the superior format.

Before I make the big jump, though, I was wondering if anyone else had positive/negative experiences with either machine, or recommended another entirely? Also, what is the preferred format, DVD-R or the DVD+R? What kind of compatibility with standard DVD players can I expect with either machine or format?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Posted by: stevel

Lots of threads on this in the past. Personally, I consider DVD+RW to be the superior format, but opinions vary. I have a Philips 985 and like it (the DVDR75 is a replacement model.)

If you stick to the write-once disks, +R and -R have about the same compatibility level with standard DVD players. If you use rewriteable discs, as I do, then it's no contest - +RW is usually compatible, -RAM almost never is.

Posted by: dssdbs

I have a Panasonic DMR-E30S and haven't had any troubles with it. The main thing is the media itself. I would steer clear of the really cheap blanks, they are more trouble than they are worth.

The DVD-R media that I record to has played on every DVD Player I have tried it on. I've haven't tried DVD-RAM media with this recorder yet. Right now I don't have anything that I would want to record to rewritable media, only write once media.

Posted by: mattack

quote:
Originally posted by relieb
Hi all,

I am in the market for a DVD recorder to archive my old TiVo recordings, and the VCR will no longer cut the mustard. I am considering two models, the Panasonic DMR-E30S and the Philips DVDR985. I am leaning towards the Panasonic, due in part to its smaller size and DVD-R recording capabilities, which I understand to be the superior format.

you might want to look at the Panasonic DMR-HS2 (soon to be replaced by the DMR-E80) or the Toshiba RD-X2, which have a hard drive AND a DVD recorder in them.. Then you can record to the hard drive, edit the recording, and send to the DVD-R, which can then be played in most DVD players (after a process called finalizing).

You can also transfer back and forth to rewritable discs called DVD-RAMs. They can't play in most players (though some newer Panasonics support them).. You may think it's not too useful to have rewritable discs if you have hard drives, but I think it's useful.

Posted by: mwarner

I am a DVDR985 owner and very happy with my purchase. Works great with the TiVo and anything else I have plugged into it. Only thing that ticks me off is Macrovision.

Other than that, a great unit.

-Matt

edit for grammer

Posted by: JimSpence

I also just purchased a DVDR985 and it has been working okay. I made a couple of coasters with +R discs, but I think it was due to my own ignorance of the unit.

If you plan to use a DVD recorder as a replacement for a VCR, you should consider re-writable media. Unless you want a lot of discs laying around or really want to keep what you're recording.

Here's a site for +R/+RW info http://www.dvdplusrw.org/ There's also one for the "-" format. Both have very strong opinions that their format is superior.

Posted by: jmoak

quote:
Originally posted by relieb
...What kind of compatibility with standard DVD players can I expect with either machine or format?

The dvdrhelp site (compatibility database now at http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers) is by far the best and most objective available, as it is a info site with no ties to either camp and the info is put together by folks like you and me.

... hundreds of plain old folks who have actually used and tested the dvdplayers listed.

searchable player media compatability database covering:
CDR, CDRW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, VCD, SVCD, CVD, XVCD, XSVCD ....

Simply enter a dvdplayer make and model and hit "search".

Posted by: sw10025

I've owned both Panny E20s (no hard drive) and my current machines, two Toshiba RD-X2s (with 80 GB hard drive). The fact that I did not stay with Panasonic should give you an idea what I think of that particular brand.

Whatever you get, I would recommend buying a unit with a hard drive, if you can afford it. I'd also recommend the RD-X2 without reservation, I love it *almost* as much as I love Tivo, and that's saying a lot. I don't know whether the Philips model has a harddrive, but as far as the Panny and Toshiba models, you get twice as large a HD for the same amount of money for the RD-X2. There are loads of other reasons why I'd rather have the Toshiba than the Panasonic, but I'll not go into a longwinded explanation.

If you have any questions, let me know!

Posted by: touchemall

I have the Panasonic, and for $399 (what I paid), it's a great machine. I don't have time to edit recordings with a hard drive--I just burn them commercials and all.

I use Optodisc DVD-R, and I haven't made a coaster after making about 35 discs. You can pick these up for about $0.75 each in 50-pack spindles if you shop around.

Isn't the DMR-E50 out yet and at the same price?

David

Posted by: steuert

The DMR-E50s came out a few months ago, with specs identical to the E30 as far as I can tell. For a while you could get either one for the same price - $400 or so - but lately the E50's seem to be priced higher.

There is a just-announced new Samsung, the DVD-R4000 which has a 4.7 GB hard drive - a lot smaller than the HD's on other units, but still a worthwhile feature. It's list price is $500, which means you will probably be able to find it for $400 or so after a while.

Posted by: MikeRadio

I have had a Philips 985 for a LONG time... (well almost a year already) and it works fantastic.

I have been archiving all my Tivo movies.. 2 movies to a DVD.

If you read all the info you will find the +RW format is MUCH better. It does NOT require any kind of finalizing, and you can perform chapter cuts and edits right on the disk.

You can even use your computer tocopy a DVD+ disk and make a perfect copy and then reedit the copy.

I do not know which if these formats, - or + will be the "winner" as they have coexisted for so long.. although a lot of companies are combining them into one unit. but they are sacraficing the featuress (expecially available on stand alone +) by doing that.

I guess time will tell.. Philips has a new replacement for the 985.. I think it has tivo like guide stuff availabnle with it not sure.. Philips website leaves a lot fo be desired.

So does Best Buys'

Mike

Posted by: edrock200

I have the panasonic HS2 and I really like it. From my experience I've found that +R is more compatible, especially with older players, but the biggest factor hasn't been +R or -R (I also have a dual format burner in my PC) for me but media. The media you select is crucial in compatibilty with other players.

I like the HS2 because I can dump everything to HD first then go back and edit items and dump to DVD-R. There are some draw backs but for the most part I like it.

For example the hs2 has a firewire port to control and copy from your digital camcorder to the hard drive, a pc card slot to read jpegs from digital photos, etc. Some features are a bit overkill for me but for the most part it's a well rounded machine.

Posted by: mattack

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRadio
If you read all the info you will find the +RW format is MUCH better. It does NOT require any kind of finalizing, and you can perform chapter cuts and edits right on the disk.

yeah, but can't you end up recording *over* other recordings if you delete a section of a recording?
(i.e. similar to trying to record on a videotape in the middle.)

At least one of the rewritable DVD formats (definitely not DVD-RAM) has this problem, which is basically enough for me to not want it.

Posted by: Morris Herman

I guess I must be missing the point of DVD recording. What is the utility of 4.7GB or 2 hours of recording time when my Tivo has 80 GB and my VCR can record 8 hours?
The only way a DVD makes sense is if you are trying to save a show (2 hours) for posterity. Why even bother putting it on a rewritable DVD?

Posted by: jsweeney

I usually show up for a ballgame at least an hour early to get the best parking. When I get to my seat I pull out my portable DVD player and watch DVD-RAM recordings of TV shows I dubbed from my TiVo using my Panasonic HS2. Life is good!

Posted by: jsweeney

Here's a question: Before purchasing my Panasonic HS2 I did all my permanent TiVo archiving onto mini DV. Now I have the option to archive to DVD-R, but won't mini DV will still give me the higher quality archive? I mean, dumping an hour of mini DV onto my PC consumes about 30GB, but archiving a show to DVD-R compresses it to 4.7GB. Can anyone confirm that mini DV is the better choice for high quality archives?

Posted by: stevel

I don't think so - MiniDV is a variant of MPEG2 - I suspect that the 30GB figure is when you create an AVI file of it. DVD should be better. Note that the two-hour quality level is closer to what many commercial DVDs offer. In any case, the two-hour DVD level is at least as good as what a TiVo will deliver.

Posted by: JimSpence

With the DVDR985 recorder you can end up recording over a previous recording, just like with a VHS tape. And like a tape you need to know where your next recording will happen. It's a lot easier to find the empty space on a DVD than with a tape. As to recording time, I can get VHS quality with 4 hours on one disk. And the 985 can go to 6 hours, but I don't use that except for some everyday recording that doesn't need high quality. I usually use the 3 hour mode. Just pop the disk in the unit and a title menu shows up and you can immediately play any show that may be in the middle. Try that with a VCR. Yeah, I know the TiVo does that too. But, eventually the TiVo will run out of room, even the 140+ hour ones.

Oh yeah, using a rewritable disk allows you to fix any mistakes you might make. With recordable only, you lose the space once it's recorded. And, you can protect the disk from being overwritten.

Posted by: cptodd

quote:
Originally posted by Morris Herman
I guess I must be missing the point of DVD recording. What is the utility of 4.7GB or 2 hours of recording time when my Tivo has 80 GB and my VCR can record 8 hours?
The only way a DVD makes sense is if you are trying to save a show (2 hours) for posterity. Why even bother putting it on a rewritable DVD?

2 things: 1) space & 2) quality. DVDs take up much less space in my apartment and video tapes degrade over time. PLUS DVD is a forward looking technology (ok that is a third). Tape is dying. I have the DMR-E50s and I love it. I have saved a bunch of old things that I have on tape and new things that I want to keep from my TiVo. I just put the three hour PBS special on Race on one disk. It looked great (MUCH better than VHS) and took up a fraction of the space that a tape would.

I get dvd-r disks for about a buck a piece at www.shop4tech.com (specifically -- http://www.shop4tech.com/user.htm?go=view_item&id=417). It is the generic brand. I have had NO problems using this media. I have only burned one coaster out of over 50 that I have used so far.

Posted by: edrock200

quote:
Originally posted by Morris Herman
I guess I must be missing the point of DVD recording. What is the utility of 4.7GB or 2 hours of recording time when my Tivo has 80 GB and my VCR can record 8 hours?
The only way a DVD makes sense is if you are trying to save a show (2 hours) for posterity. Why even bother putting it on a rewritable DVD?

Actually, a DVD recorder can record up to 6 or 8 (can't remember) hours onto a DVD in EP mode just as a VCR can. However, you will lose quality, also like the VCR in EP mode.

Posted by: JPA2825

That said, what can you expect to pay for DVD Recorders nowadays? I remember looking at Christmas time and thinking, "These prices will come way down by summer so I'll wait." Was I right? My main goal is to archive camcorder footage (since my kids were born 9 yrs. ago -- hint It is not a digital camcorder) for A - preservation and B - gifting to grandparents so they can easily watch.

Posted by: edrock200

You can expect to pay anywhere from $300 to $1000. I believe the average price is between $400-$500. DVD Burners for your PC can be had for under $200 now but it's not as easy to transfer analog content (need to encode first, then transfer to recording prog, author etc.) There are many PC packages that make this easier now like the "DAZZLE" product line.

Posted by: mattack

quote:
Originally posted by Morris Herman
I guess I must be missing the point of DVD recording. What is the utility of 4.7GB or 2 hours of recording time when my Tivo has 80 GB and my VCR can record 8 hours?
The only way a DVD makes sense is if you are trying to save a show (2 hours) for posterity. Why even bother putting it on a rewritable DVD?

Even if it were simply the same quality as VHS, I would prefer rewritable DVD.. (Note I don't actually have one yet, but the next 'toy' I get will be a DMR-HS2, RD-X2, or similar hard drive/DVD recorder.)

I've used up lots and lots of videotapes over the years. Even at $1 or less apiece (cheap videotapes -- a great reason to like Frys!), it still adds up since they go bad with enough rewrites.

Also, I can imagine using rewritables for some "semi-permanent" recordings.. dump off of the hard drive to collect a bunch of episodes, then put them back on the hard drive, edit and dub them all in a session.

A few 'regular DVD players' can play DVD-RAMs too, so it can be used for portability too.

Basically -- it sounds like it's not for you, but these hard drive/DVD recorders come close to my perfect recorder, since you can edit recordings and have portable random-access media. (videotape sucks!)

I don't even care that the ones I'm looking into use DVD-RAM, the "beta" of rewritable DVD, as long as I can buy a bunch of media now and it'll last me a while.