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Revising the TiVo FAQ

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Posted by: feldon23

The last thread self-destructed, so I'm starting over...

I am suggesting that the forum have a LARGE "CLICK HERE before asking questions about your new TiVo hardware or service!!" button at the top of the front pages.

I also feel that new users during the registration process (heck, even BEFORE the registration process) should be presented with a list of the top 30-50 Frequently Asked Questions as seen on the TiVo forum. They don't have to read the answers, just the list of questions. And maybe make it so they have to write the first 3 words of question #34. SOMETHING to get people to READ before asking "How do I watch one show while recording another?"

How many people come here bewildered and say "I couldn't find an answer for this, so...". The TiVoFAQ.Com is written for people who already know the terminology. unixadm's detailed FAQs are written from an engineering point of view and explain a lot of the "why" instead of the "how".


To quote someone's rant against newbies:
quote:
2. Don't scold people for letting inconsiderate newbies know how inconsiderate they're being. If I were a moderator I'd simply lock every repetitive question with "discussed to death. Do a search"

This is NOT what David Bott wants.

The goal is for each new user to have a positive first experience. An obligatory FAQ is really the only way. I've seen every other way attempted here and other places.

When someone asks me "Where's a place to get answers to TiVo questions?" I have no answer for them. I want to change that.


I think the TiVo forum should try it for 2 weeks and have a feedback thing at the bottom "This is something new we are trying. Were you frustrated by having to read this list of questions first? Do you think we should keep this?". How much can 2 weeks over Summer break really hurt?



So here's my updated FAQ (no answers just yet). If you have more questions or suggestions, please post them!

__________________________
What is TiVo?

What is the difference between a TiVo and a VCR? How do TiVos compare to the Dish PVR, UltimateTV, Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000, and other DVR models? Why should I get a TiVo?

What TiVo functionality is lost if I do not subscribe to the service? How much is the monthly service charge for a TiVo? Do multiple TiVos get any service discount? What is mirroring? How much does Lifetime service cost?

What is the difference between Sony, Philips, Hughes, and AT&T TiVos? Which TiVo model should I buy?

What is the difference between a regular TiVo and a Series 2 TiVo? Is the Hughes HDVR2 a Series 2 TiVo?

What is a DirecTiVo or DirecTV with TiVo receiver? What is a standalone TiVo? How do I set the recording quality on a DirecTV with TiVo receiver? Can I record cable or antenna (rabbit ears) onto a DirecTV with TiVo?

What is the Home Media Option? How much does HMO cost? How do I network my TiVo to my computer? Can I send programs by e-mail to other TiVo users? How do I schedule programs on my TiVo from the web? What is TiVoWeb?

Are there any TiVo models that can record HDTV? What is TiVo's strategy for recording digital TV? There isn't much HDTV programming, is there? How do I use TiVo with an HDTV DirecTV or Cable box to record a downconverted signal?

Does TiVo need a phone line to stay activated?

Can I use TiVo in Canada, Mexico, or outside the US?

What is the yellow star (advertisement) icon doing on my TiVo or DirecTV Central screen? How do I get rid of the yellow star (TCP)?

Does TiVo sell my personal viewing data? How do I opt-out of TiVo's data collection?


__________________________
Using TiVo

What is a Season Pass? How do I set up a recording for my favorite shows? What is a wishlist and how do I create one?

How do I record shows with my favorite actor or by keyword?

What does TiVo do if there is a schedule change/problem? How can I check if TiVo will record a show? How do I access TiVo's "To Do" list? How do I contact TiVo or Tribune about scheduling or channel lineup changes?

How long does it take to set up a TiVo? Why does Guided Setup take 4-6 hour when it says it will take 2-3?

Why is my TiVo recording shows that I did not ask for? What are TiVo Suggestions? What are the Thumbs buttons for on the remote? How do I control what my TiVo records?

Why do I lose the beginning or ending of my shows?

What is the Thumbs Up icon I saw on an NBC or Showtime program? What does the icon mean "Press to Record"? What is a TiVoMatic or iPreview?

I am a Dish Network (Echostar) customer and my TiVo tries to record channels that I do not subscribe to and records a blank screen. What can I do? How do I remove channels I do not receive? How do I customize my list of channels? How do I change my channel lineup if I move? How do I perform Guided Setup again?

Why can't I schedule Pay-Per-View movies to record on my TiVo? How do I record Pay-Per-View movies?

Are there any TiVo shortcuts? How do I enable the 30 second skip? Can I sort Now Playing alphabetically? Can I batch record shows to VCR?


__________________________
TiVo Hardware Questions

Can I leave my TiVo on constantly? Does standby mode save wear-and-tear on the TiVo hard drive? How do I activate Standby on my TiVo? How loud or noisy is a TiVo if I use it in a bedroom?

How many hours of programming can a TiVo record? When will my shows be deleted? How do I set the recording quality on my TiVo or DirecTV with TiVo? How can I upgrade the recording capacity in my TiVo?

What is a wireless modem jack and how does it differ from a wireless phone jack? Do I need a surge protector or UPS for my TiVo? What are RCN cable and a PBX and can they damage the modem in a TiVo? How do I repair my TiVo modem? Who is ElectricLegs?

How do I record two shows or record one program while watching another with my TiVo? How do I connect my DirecTV with TiVo so that dual tuners can be used to record two programs? Do I need an elliptical (oval) dish to record two shows at once?

How do I program my TiVo remote to control only one TiVo? How do I setup one remote with two TiVos?

How do I get Dolby Digital sound from my DirecTV with TiVo receiver? Is there a solution for the loud pops and sounds from my DirecTV with TiVo? On which DirecTV with TiVo models can I get the TiVo sound effects on the digital (optical) output?

What is a multiswitch? What is a destacker and stacker? Can I use a splitter to get both tuners working on my DirecTV with TiVo?

Why does TiVo take so long to change channels? What do I do if TiVo drops the first digit when changing channels on Motorola or General Instruments cable boxes? What is an IR Blaster? What is an IR Fort? Can I use control my cable box through the serial port on my TiVo? How do I turn off the built-in IR emitter in my TiVo (the eye in front)?

What Dish Network receivers is TiVo compatible with? How do I tune to 4-digit channels with my TiVo? How do I tune to the channels starting with 900? How do I tune to Dish CD channels?

What do I do if my TiVo is too hot? How can I improve the cooling on my TiVo? How do I check the temperature on my TiVo?

My Philips DSR6000 remote is slow to respond and the up/down/left/right joypad is hard to use accurately. How do I get a replacement Philips DSR6000 DirecTV with TiVo remote?

Why is my DirecTV with TiVo getting a low signal on transponders 12, 28, etc.? What is a spot beam satellite? Why am I getting a "searching for signal on satellite input 2" message on my TiVo?

I have A/B two wire cable in Boston or other locale. How do I get TiVo to record from dual wire cable?

How do I improve the picture quality of my TiVo? How does TiVo look on a widescreen TV or HDTV? What is S-Video?

What do the lights on the front of a TiVo indicate?


__________________________
General Questions

How is TiVo doing financially? Why can't we discuss TiVo stock or quarter results on the TiVo forum? Why doesn't TiVo tell us anything besides in press releases?

Who are TiVolutionary, TiVoBill, TiVoPony, TiVoShannan, TiVoDataGuy, TiVoOpsMgr, and TiVoKatya?

Does the word TiVo stand for anything? What do UMF, SOAK, FUD, SUID, TCP (Star item), and PTCM mean?


Posted by: pkscout

It's nice to see someone thinking about ways to help new folks along rather than ways to beat them over the head with a big search button. :D

(While I do wish folks would do searches more often, searching only works if you actually know enough terminology to construct a reasonable search string.)

Now the $64,000 question. Who's gonna answer all these good questions. I'm relatively new to TiVo but have some experience with documentation, and I'd be willing to help if others are pitching in some time.


Posted by: stevel

I think this is a good candidate for a wiki. I had not even heard the term until a short time ago, but I can see its potential. A wiki is a collaborative document which, usually, anyone can contribute to or edit a previous contribution. Once it's set up, it should be essentially self-maintaining.


Posted by: kdmorse

On many other boards they've made good use of a FAQ forum. It's a forum in it's own, in which mods (or other delegated know-it-all's) post FAQ like answers on a topic by topic basis. One of the advantages is that it tends to get updated fairly frequently. You get a slew of threads asking a common question in one of the regular forums, and someone pops over to the FAQ forum, and puts a common answer there, and thus the question starts cropping up less frequently.

It tends to be a lot more fluid, a lot more up-to-date, and a closer match to the questions that are truly Frequently AsQed. It tends to beat an old, stale, static FAQ, like the one we currently have.

Plus, a FAQ forum at the top of the Forum list tends to stick out more. People have a tendency to go browse through it before going elsewhere. It's easy to find, part of the forum, and hard to overlook.

Just my 2 cents...

-Ken


Posted by: embeem

pkscout:

Search only works so long as everyone uses it. It falls apart as soon as people start asking questions rather than searching -- the search will show a dozen recent threads with people asking questions rather than the older thread containing the answer.


feldon23:

The last thing you want to do is to present the user with a list of the top 2000 questions in a 42 page document -- Nobody is going to go through that many pages just to see if their question has already been answered.

Keep it as simple as possible, set it up as a hierarchy. Present them with a choice of categories which leads to a choice of subcategories from there you can present them with the top 20 questions for that specific subcategory.

Use either a wiki or forum.

Don't have the FAQ depend on specific people to do updates -- it never works out and the FAQ goes stale as people get lazy. Instead, give the users more control and just designate someone to moderate it.


Posted by: gleffler

Use a wiki, I'll help.

/gleffler


Posted by: dgh

Please don't forget this one

quote:

"According to Fresh Gear, a news magazine show on TechTV, TiVo is soon downloading each user's viewing habits and selling this information to willing corporate parties interested in pinpointing specific marketing schemes on a user-specific basis. Is there any truth to this report?..."


Oh and yellow star questions.


Posted by: BlankMan

2 weeks is too short of a testing period in my mind in leu of it being summer and the effort that will go in to writing this FAQ. I think a month would give it a better shake. If it really starts getting blasted early on you could always cut it short.

And what about the idea of the few most pertinent links to threads that would go more into depth for each question?


Posted by: BlankMan

quote:
Originally posted by dgh
Please don't forget this one



Oh and yellow star questions.

I'm not gonna say nothin'.


Posted by: stevel

I disagree on using a forum - just look at what happens to some of the more popular "sticky" topics in this forum - much too much for a newbie to wade through, with multiple unrelated questions asked and re-asked. What we need is a list of individual questions with specific, concise answers. If clarifications are needed, the answer gets revised.

I'll be glad to help with this effort.


Posted by: DrStrange

A FAQ forum would only work with considerable moderator effort. They'd have to make sure the thread titles were meaningful, delete off topic posts in the thread (a judgement call that would undoubtedly invite flamage) and lock threads that start rehashing itself (more opportunity for flamage).

It's kind of a shame that that isn't practical here because FAQs and such won't get into the sort of detail that the extended discourse in a thread can.


Posted by: mchasal

I would suggest looking at Faq-O-Matic. http://faqomatic.sourceforge.net/fom-serve/cache/1.html

Its sort of like a WIKI, but a little more structured. I've used it a bit and it seems pretty good. Its got a whole subcategory tree like embeem suggests.

I would agree that a forum isn't the right place for something like this. A FAQ is not a place for discussions and having the items ordered cronologically is not the best.

Mike


Posted by: mjh

quote:
Originally posted by mchasal
I would suggest looking at Faq-O-Matic. http://faqomatic.sourceforge.net/fom-serve/cache/1.html

Its sort of like a WIKI, but a little more structured.
As a frequent new user to lots of different things, I personally hate FAQ-O-Matics and Wiki's. A FAQ to me should include only questions that have a consistant answer and are asked frequently. A Wiki and a FAQ-O-Matic simply are too dynamic for the purposes that I think a FAQ should be addressing.

$.02.


Posted by: Y-ASK

quote:
Originally posted by embeem
Keep it as simple as possible, set it up as a hierarchy. Present them with a choice of categories which leads to a choice of subcategories from there you can present them with the top 20 questions for that specific subcategory.



I really like embeem's suggestions. I have no idea of where to start but would be willing to help if someone wants to take charge and delegate the taskings..:)

Y-ASK


Posted by: stevel

I suggest that a wiki would work as long as there is a small set of contributors. What can get overwhelming is if one person is maintaining a single document.


Posted by: feldon23

quote:
Originally posted by embeem
The last thing you want to do is to present the user with a list of the top 2000 questions in a 42 page document

I believe I said 30-50 and posted as such. 42 pages? What size font would it take for that many questions (not answers) to be listed?

quote:
Originally posted by embeem
Use either a wiki or forum.

I can't even figure out how to use a wiki.

quote:
Originally posted by embeem
Don't have the FAQ depend on specific people to do updates -- it never works out

Sure it does, look at the AVS HDTV Forum.

quote:
Originally posted by embeem
and the FAQ goes stale as people get lazy. Instead, give the users more control and just designate someone to moderate it.

Not with the software I've written. And I am afraid that if everyone can post questions, you will end up with a lot of INfrequently Asked Questions.


Posted by: feldon23

quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
2 weeks is too short of a testing period in my mind in leu of it being summer and the effort that will go in to writing this FAQ. I think a month would give it a better shake. If it really starts getting blasted early on you could always cut it short.

I've already been told by David that nothing extra will be done for any FAQ we/I write, no matter how good it is. At best, it will be a sticky topic in one of the forums.

I am trying to be careful not to misquote David but he said to me that TiVo could do more to improve their FAQs so that the TiVo community would not be deluged with basic usability questions. Also he does not want to create barriers to entry/user registration by having a FAQ appear "in your face".

quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
And what about the idea of the few most pertinent links to threads that would go more into depth for each question?

Yes, I forgot to include that in my initial post. This is a given.


Posted by: BlankMan

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
I've already been told by David that nothing extra will be done for any FAQ we/I write, no matter how good it is. At best, it will be a sticky topic in one of the forums.

I am trying to be careful not to misquote David but he said to me that TiVo could do more to improve their FAQs so that the TiVo community would not be deluged with basic usability questions. Also he does not want to create barriers to entry/user registration by having a FAQ appear "in your face".

Disappointing. But from what I've read about the Forum administration around here I guess I can say I'm not surprised. Almost expected it, but I was holding out hope.


Posted by: DrStrange

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
I've already been told by David that nothing extra will be done for any FAQ we/I write, no matter how good it is. At best, it will be a sticky topic in one of the forums.

In that case I retract the offer I made in another thead to update the current FAQ. Since I'm not a FAQ editor I'd have to to copy the FAQ, make all the changes on my own server, the bug the FAQ editors to copy the changed files over. I've done it once or twice before, but it's a pain that I was only willing to go to if there was some chance a current FAQ would get the prominent button it once had. If a FAQ button is too much bother for David (even though I'm sure he'd find room for more advertiser buttons - judging by the rest of AVS forum he's willing to cram up to 20 pieces of advertising up there) then updating the entire FAQ at once is too much trouble for me.

I'd still be willing to help out with any FAQ effort, including writing up individual questions/answers as I can. But Davids attitude toward an accessible FAQ doesn't really make me want to bust my hump at it.


Posted by: devdogaz

I'm not the most knowledgable TiVo fan on the forum but I would be happy to help in any way. I read through most of the FAQ threads before I started posting and I feel lilke I learned a lot from that but I tend to be the type that enjoys researching things like that and I doubt most people would have the patience to read what is currently there. I would like to see an FAQ (regardless of the form it takes) that has a list of general topics like feldon23 suggested (i.e. What is TiVo? How to use Tivo? etc.) and each of those would be a hyperlink to the subcategory which would have a list of questions, each of which is a hyperlink to the answer.

I don't think the idea is to have a document that you would expect new people to read so the length of it is really irrelevant. IMO, the idea is to have a reference guide so that if someone had a basic question, it would be easy to look there and see if that question is answered. Currently, to find out if your question has already been answered at some point in history, you have to perform a search that may or may not return the results you are looking for. If there were an easily accessible guide where the topics could be quickly viewed, I think most people would be inclined to check there first before starting a new thread, which is the whole point of an FAQ.

Just my $.02


Posted by: feldon23

My goal is for people to scan through the list of questions and then if they don't see what they want, close the window.


"It's the question(s) that drives us." - Trinity


Posted by: Richard Casto

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
I've already been told by David that nothing extra will be done for any FAQ we/I write, no matter how good it is. At best, it will be a sticky topic in one of the forums.


If this is true... This is a sad situation and frankly pretty much torpedoes any efforts at improving things here if it would prevent something as simple as making the existing (or updated) FAQ easier to find. :confused:


Posted by: feldon23

Nothing here jumps out at me as being for Help. Why can't "AVS Forum" under "Forums" be moved to "Members Area" and then rename "Forums" to "Help"?

http://www.feldoncentral.com/TiVo/topbanner.gif


Posted by: BlankMan

You might be treading on sacred ground....


Posted by: DrStrange

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
Nothing here jumps out at me as being for Help. Why can't "AVS Forum" under "Forums" be moved to "Members Area" and then rename "Forums" to "Help"?

I doubt that would do any good. With that menu bar being at the top of the page and all the real forum content and buttons being on the other side of that mass of sponsor buttons, most people probably immediately scroll that menu off the screen to get past all the advertising. I'd bet most newbies never even notice there's a menu there. I notice that it's even the last thing to load, so people may scroll past it even before it displays.


Posted by: DVDerek

If this gets implemented we should all be careful to answer FAQ type questions that still get posted to the forum with a link to the FAQ answer. No more, no less. Eventually people get the point.

Edit
Well I posted this before I read the entire thread. Looks like nothing special will be done to help the members here. Another sticky post will do nothing to alleviate the problem. Oh Well. I've only been around these forums for 10 months or so, but the community has detiorated quite a bit.


Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by DVDerek
Oh Well. I've only been around these forums for 10 months or so, but the community has detiorated quite a bit.
So you're saying it's been pretty much downhill after you became a member? ;) :D


Posted by: BlankMan

quote:
Originally posted by phone1
So you're saying it's been pretty much downhill after you became a member? ;) :D

LOL. phone1 be nice now.... :D


Posted by: PrimeRisk

Hmm.. Interesting. I've been slowly working on a HMO FAQ that I intended to post in the new HMO area. I'd be more than happy to contribute to an overall TiVo FAQ.

Just as a side note, who says the FAQ has to be in or on the TC site? We can always link to an external site for the FAQ.


Posted by: DrStrange

I think an external, non-AVS affiliated FAQ wouldn't be automatically allowed to use the Tivo logo or have a domain name with "tivo" in it without getting Tivos permission first. But if David doesn't support the FAQ I say lets get it off his site, and get rid of his banner ads.


Posted by: pgogborn

quote:
Originally posted by DVDerek

Oh Well. I've only been around these forums for 10 months or so, but the community has detiorated quite a bit.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.


Posted by: stevel

I guess I am confused - David Bott owns tivofaq.com, and the FAQ there is edited by three people - of those, only one, ILoveMyTiVo, is identified by a forum handle that I recognize. Are any of these people involved in this discussion?


Posted by: feldon23

quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
You might be treading on sacred ground....

If I believed in sacred ground, I wouldn't be pushing hard to improve things.

I had a frustrating conversation with David in private messages about this issue. David is happy with the situation as it is, and the massive continual growth of the TiVo forum is all he needs to say 'Morgan, no offense, but you're wrong -- everything's fine' (not a direct quote).

David feels that any changes that could be made would laregely be futile in any effort to curtail the number of duplicate questions.

Believe me, I pushed hard, too hard, to the point of almost insulting David (sorry if I did!).


Posted by: feldon23

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
I guess I am confused - David Bott owns tivofaq.com, and the FAQ there is edited by three people - of those, only one, ILoveMyTiVo, is identified by a forum handle that I recognize. Are any of these people involved in this discussion?

David registered it, but distances himself from any official or unofficial FAQ. If I made a serious effort, then I think David would put me as one of the editors of TiVoFAQ.

Officially, I think David wishes there was no need for a FAQ, that the informational needs of everyone who came here were already catered to by TiVo, Inc. so that this could be TiVo users who are already set up and just want to talk about the features of TiVo they love, instead of how to get it working with a Motorola cable box for the Nth time.

If I'm misquoting, then I apologize.


Posted by: gleffler

If it's not going to be in-your-face or any more accessible than it is now, count me out.

/gleffler


Posted by: DrStrange

I'm starting to wonder if maybe David doesn't want this forum to be an easily searchable resource. If people can't find what they want without asking a question then they have to register, and David gets more users. They post the same questions, people post either the same answers or flames, and David gets more threads and messages to brag about. David looks at quantity of users, threads, and messages and says "wow, what a busy forum, what a success I am! Why should I listen to the requests of mere users?" Losing people who provide expertice is of no concern to him, as long as each expert is replaced by 5 newbies who start new threads about how incensed we should all be that Tivo is selling our personal viewing habits.

I guess we all should have gotten a clue when David forgot the Coffee House archives in the UBB-vB conversion and just shrugged it off.

I'm with gleffler. Count me out of any FAQ improvement project for this forum. If someone wants to do one for some other Tivo forum where the sysadmin gives a crap about FAQs, searches, and a decent S/N ratio, I'll be happy to help with that.


Posted by: BlankMan

DrStrange - I was thinking the same thing you said, I discussed it with feldon yesterday, it is starting to look like that.


Posted by: phone1

The Replay FAQs are maintained by another party. I don't know if it's a group or individual effort. On the surface they seem very well done, although I can't say I've used them much. The only problem with doing this, as posted earlier, is that you become dependent on an individual or small group who may lose interest or stop maintaining them for any number of reasons that the forum owner can't control.


Posted by: DrStrange

See, here is a prime example of something that needs to be a sticky thread for a week or two. Two threads started on it within a minute, and we'll easily get several more today, probably ten or more over the next week. A sticky might reduce that, but I guess that'd be bad.


Posted by: pkscout

Yup, that's a great thing to sticky. I've made that mistake myself. I don't remember what it was, but I posted some news announcement only *after* scrolling through what I thought were all the active threads. So when I posted the news again I had a couple of folks politely point me to the original thread (which was posted by one of the TiVo folks). Boy does that make you feel dumb when you do IT for a living. :rolleyes:


Posted by: phone1

Those threads should be merged, but we have too many stickies already IMO.


Posted by: BlankMan

Well with the search function going down so often lately (it's down again right now) it's no wonder we get duplicate posts and repetitive questions.


Posted by: stevel

It also doesn't help when we get titles along the lines of "Hey, look at this!" or "HELLPPPPPP!!!!!" Descriptive titles make it easier to spot relevant prior discussions.


Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
I think this is a good candidate for a wiki. […] A wiki is a collaborative document which, usually, anyone can contribute to or edit a previous contribution. Once it's set up, it should be essentially self-maintaining.
Like this TiVo Wikipedia entry? :)


Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by embeem
Search only works so long as everyone uses it. It falls apart as soon as people start asking questions rather than searching -- the search will show a dozen recent threads with people asking questions rather than the older thread containing the answer.
Or unless some extremely active posters or moderators (e.g., once upon a time, Samsara) catches just about every duplicate thread and merges or closes them out with links to the appropriate thread.

Anyways, here's a low-effort suggestion for frequent posters that might help a little with reducing duplicate threads—include a link to “Most Viewed Recent Help Center Threads” in your signatures. (Feel free to suggest a more catchy phrase.)

From experience with the link to my own FAQlet that has been in my signature for a while, some people do actually read the signatures and follow links there (although many don't, of course). The more people that include this link in their sigs, the more likely newbies are to see it.

I've modified my signature to implement this suggestion. What do you all think?


Posted by: Seminole

As a Newbie to TIVO I would welcome a place to go to and read about all the different things that a Newbie has questions on. I tried the FAQ and didn't find it very helpful. SO I say bring it on it would save me a lot of time and you veterans from going crazy.


Posted by: feldon23

quote:
Originally posted by Seminole
As a Newbie to TIVO I would welcome a place to go to and read about all the different things that a Newbie has questions on. I tried the FAQ and didn't find it very helpful. SO I say bring it on it would save me a lot of time and you veterans from going crazy.

David Bott is not interested in putting the FAQ link in a prominent location and/or making it a necessary step of registration to at least scroll through the list of questions. As a result, it's not worth my effort.

Maybe 1 out of every 15 people registering would read it.

If David will get serious about the TiVo Community's responsibility to answer a lot of these (what we consider to be) basic questions, then I'd be glad to head up a collective FAQ with questions written such that a non-TiVo person can figure them out.

I know David does not want to do TiVo, Inc.'s job, but we're past that point. A prominent FAQ is needed to maintain the quality of and forum posts and prevent burnout of long-time forum members.


Posted by: dgh

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
I know David does not want to do TiVo, Inc.'s job, but we're past that point.


Is that the issue? It seems like we're all doing that "job" on a daily basis anyway.


Posted by: Seminole

Feldon,

I agree with you as a veteran of HDTV and reading and answering many posts on the HD side of the forum it has gotten to the point when a newbie needs help with basic questions I sometimes don't have the energy to repeat many posts that i have already made. That is why coming into this forum I don't want to be a pest and ask all the little questions that are big to me but a big bore for everyone else. I think a page decscribing the in and outs would go a long way to help people with a new technology to learn without cramping up the regular board with what will some day be dumb questions for me.


Posted by: DrStrange

Feldon is not the one that needs to be convinced of the utility of a FAQ page, David Bott is and he refuses to hear it. No FAQ page no matter how well done or informative is of much use if people don't see it, and DB seems to want to make sure nobody sees it. He's got the space for a prominent FAQ button and there used to be one, but David has since decided he doesn't want to waste premium page real estate on a useful resource when he could use it for either more ads or big empty blotches of whitespace.

Of course it doesn't help that the FAQ is currently miserably out of date, but I count at least three people who volunteered to update it, then retracted their offer after DBs attitude became known. Apathy breeds apathy I guess.

And BTW, nobody is asking David to do Tivos job - there are users willing to do that via a user-maintained FAQ. All we're asking of David is a stupid link at the top of the page big enough to get people's attention, like the kind he puts up when he has something he wants to sell like the AVS cruise.


Posted by: feldon23

The problem with the current FAQ, as much as being out-of-date, is that:

#1 most of the Questions use terminology that only a TiVo expert would know

#2 it answers MANY questions which are irrelevant to TiVo usage and/or aren't asked all that often

#3 Has answers which do not focus on resolving the problem but instead explaining the problem.

And yes, it is hideously out-of-date.


Posted by: stevel

Well, one way around that would be to advertise it in a "pinned topic". Not ideal, but at least something we could do ourselves.


Posted by: Seminole

Anything is better than what is available now trust me on that a s a newbie to this forum


Posted by: feldon23

Or we could pool our pennies together and get one of the rotating advertisements to be for "TiVo...The Missing Manual" which would bring the user to a TiVo FAQ. :)


Posted by: JPriller

If you ever get this off the ground and are looking for writers, count me in.


Posted by: BlankMan

Oh-oh. Questioning the administration. I definitely feel a lock coming in the future. Even the out-of-date FAQ says that a no-no. :D

But don't get me wrong, I'm all for a revised FAQ and a button for it in a prominent place. But unfortunately that button would not bring in revenue so it won't get prime real estate. But then again, every time its clicked on it could pop up ten more ads...


Posted by: feldon23

Sometimes it takes tough comments to get action. We've tried everything else except the suggested "make a FAQ but we won't put it anywhere prominent" which the potential FAQ writers have summarily rejected. We do have jobs and other things to do than write a FAQ that will be seen by <5%.


Posted by: stevel

I realized there already is a FAQ topic pinned to at least this forum section. So why not? It's probably more visible than the hidden links.


Posted by: ILoveMyTiVo

If anybody wants to update the FAQ - in the current location - all you have to do is volunteer. (And that is all you ever had to do.) PM me and I will send you the information you need. None of the past editors have the desire/time to do it anymore. Personally, I don't read the board enough anymore to know what the frequently asked questions are currently, but I would be willing to help if someone else takes charge.

As for having a user-editable FAQ that anyone can update, it's a nice idea, but it certainly hasn't worked well for the hack faq. The last time someone updated that was in May to say it was out of date. Before that was June 2002.

I do like the idea of people putting the link in their signature (once it is updated). I think with the sticky thread and that, people would read it if they wanted.


Posted by: brebeans

Hi:

All great ideas. I leave it to you guys to determine what the best way to handle this is.

I've done some searches and read many, many posts, which helped avoid my asking a specific question (e.g. "6"s" getting deleted!).

However, many of us have very specific situations that might not have been asked....perhaps categories in addition to examples of questions in those categories, would be helpful.

As a relatively new Tivo user, and I'm not technophobic, but sometimes the specific details need to be spelled out for some us (there's such a wide range of knowledge and experience out there) for our specific situation. So there will be some folks who will ask a specific question because something in a previous post isn't exactly what they need, or there will always be people who go right to their questions (without searching or going to FAQ) and those folks who will respond to them.

One of the things that's nice about this forum is that it is interactive. Although some things can get repetitive, I don't want the forum to turn into the FAQ section of the main Tivo page or other FAQs where you can't quite get at the details......

you probably have all thought or heard of this perspective...but wanted to add what I find to be very helpful and valuable about this forum...you're all very knowledgeable and helpful and seem not to mind helping folks out!

Thanks for trying, again, to help out and keep this user friendly!


Posted by: devdogaz

I personally don't see any reason why someone should be discouraged from posting a question to the forum. Sure, the question may be one that has been asked 100 times and maybe the answer was there for them if they simply looked a little harder. But why should we care if they post it again? If it bothers you, simply don't respond or don't read the question in the first place. But for those of us who don't mind helping out (and I'm sure most people didn't mind it at one point), there isn't any reason why a newbie should bet shouted down every time they ask a question with a simple or oft-discussed answer. It is the hospitality of this forum that has helped turn many "window shoppers" into TiVo subscribers. If we stop helping people with their questions, we risk people not buying TiVo and we all know that every TiVo helps. I think updating the FAQ would be a great thing, having a link to the FAQ in people's signatures would be good, all the suggestions would be good. I just don't like to see a newbie post a question and get a response of "do a search" or "that has already been asked" or something. If you want to post a link to a previous discussion on the topic, that would be great but don't belittle them for being new and unknowledgable. If it bugs you that they are asking these types of questions, simply don't respond.


Posted by: feldon23

Because then they will get an unresearched, flippant answer which does not go into detail and does not cover the problem.

Then others try to correct their answer with more misinformation and finally, completely flustered, one of the experts comes in and has to write a 2 page document correcting everything that was posted before.

Why not provide a well-documented, concise answer for each major question that comes up?

The myriad threads which have followed this path have proven that letting people ask the same questions over and over brings down the entire forum. It's beyond personal preference or some desire to protect democracy. Anarchy simply does not work.

What is so hard about new members having to read through a brief (50 or so) list of questions before they can post a question?

quote:
If it bugs you that they are asking these types of questions, simply don't respond.

And thus the core of the TiVo Community leaves and you are left with a much weaker forum. Is it worth it?


Posted by: BlankMan

quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz
I personally don't see any reason why someone should be discouraged from posting a question to the forum. Sure, the question may be one that has been asked 100 times and maybe the answer was there for them if they simply looked a little harder. But why should we care if they post it again? If it bothers you, simply don't respond or don't read the question in the first place. But for those of us who don't mind helping out (and I'm sure most people didn't mind it at one point), there isn't any reason why a newbie should bet shouted down every time they ask a question with a simple or oft-discussed answer. It is the hospitality of this forum that has helped turn many "window shoppers" into TiVo subscribers. If we stop helping people with their questions, we risk people not buying TiVo and we all know that every TiVo helps. I think updating the FAQ would be a great thing, having a link to the FAQ in people's signatures would be good, all the suggestions would be good. I just don't like to see a newbie post a question and get a response of "do a search" or "that has already been asked" or something. If you want to post a link to a previous discussion on the topic, that would be great but don't belittle them for being new and unknowledgable. If it bugs you that they are asking these types of questions, simply don't respond.
Feldon's right, seen it happen way too many times before, people think they know the answer but they don't and it only makes matters worse.

Plus, and this is my biggest gripe, it drives away the real experts, the ones that did the hacks that allow you to put a bigger hard drive in. That is the loss we all suffer due to repetitive questions. And this isn't my opinion, this is from the experts. We hashed this all out a couple months ago and that is how this thread got started.

And it is all well and good in your mind being a newbie yourself and I can see your side, but it is detrimental to the innovativeness of this Forum from a Upgrade and Underground standpoint, unless you'll be happy with this becoming a Coffee Clutch affair.


Posted by: Joe Siegler

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
I think this is a good candidate for a wiki. I had not even heard the term until a short time ago, but I can see its potential. A wiki is a collaborative document which, usually, anyone can contribute to or edit a previous contribution. Once it's set up, it should be essentially self-maintaining.


We use that software to keep track of game development at my company - and as far as I know, the team finds it rather useful. But that's a controlled enviornment - I don't know how well it would work "in the public" like that. When you have open FAQ updating, there's nothing to stop someone from putting an obviously blatantly wrong information - an E* weenie could come in and put in/modify obviously wrong info.


Posted by: feldon23

The format is irrelevant.

I've written FAQ software which takes away the drudgery of producing the FAQ. You just plug in the data and it works.

If there is a major benefit to the Wiki, then we'll use it. Of course I'd have to learn how to use it. :|




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