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Can Seniors Figure How to use TiVo?
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Posted by: steve577

I am thinking about buying a TiVo, but I'm a little afraid of it. VCRs and digital cable box interfaces are annoying to learn to use, and now we have a TiVo interface to wrestle with. Sometimes I'd be using the digital cable interface, and other times, TiVo's interface? I don't like fooling around with like a hundred little buttons on a remote, either. I wonder how much trouble it is to network to the TiVo and be able to peruse and select programs to record with the computer. A computer keyboard is a lot more pleasant way to control the TiVo interface than pushbuttons scattered around a remote control device which I can't even see without my reading glasses.

Comments and advice would be appreciated.

Posted by: pgogborn

My best guess is that as you know how to post that question on this forum you will be able to use the TiVo and network it.

Also, even if you do run up against a problem you can not sort out by yourself, you will be able to ask somebody who can help you.

I have not got a digital cable interface, so I did not completely understand this part of your question "Sometimes I'd be using the digital cable interface, and other times, TiVo's interface?" However, I believe you will find that you will be controlling the digital cable via the TiVo, you will not need to use the digital cable remote.

Posted by: Turtleboy

AGreed.

I thought you would be someone asking this quesiton for someone else, and I was going to say "No, most seniors probably don't know how to figure out the Tivo."

But, if you are posting this question, you can use a Tivo. You wouldn't have to use the digital cable interface ever. Just the Tivo.

Posted by: Jabberer

My 80 year old mother who thinks the TV signal comes from the electrical lines and doesn't understand (but accepts) that you can record something while the TV is turned off can use her DTivo.

And I agree - just the fact that you posted here proves you can use a Tivo.

Posted by: steve577

Okay, so senior citizen that I am, I can take a Dell Computer out of the box and wire it up and operate it with no problem. But my question perhaps should be rephrased....its not so much whether a person can learn to operate TiVo as does one really want to go to the trouble? Is it worth it? For instance, I wired up my TV so that I can use either the Digital Cable interface for changing channels (includes program guide access), or the TV tuner for flipping thru channels which is much faster, but no access to program guide.

The TV tuner is far faster for flipping through the channels than the Digital Cable box (which like TiVo, is slow to put an actual picture on the screen due to the bottleneck created by the microprocessor).

Posted by: martinp13

My Mom is 76, and taught herself how to program a VCR years ago. I bought her a TiVo, since I thought she could handle it. The first few months were hit and miss. She got some of it, but the cumbersome menus always distracted her from what she needed to do. The TiVo-# shortcuts helped a LOT! She does well with the Season Passes, though WishLists still have her a bit baffled. When something strange happens (like a show not being recorded that should have), she gets flustered and forgets where she needs to check (Recording History). I hooked up the cable input to the TV also, so she can watch one thing and record another, and though the VCR was hooked up the same way, on the TiVo it gives her fits. She doesn't understand the difference between live TV and Live TV. :)

Definitely depends on the senior in question! My Mom does great! But most of her friends don't even know how to plug a lamp into the wall.

Posted by: LooseWiring

Sir, after installing TiVo I think you will find it MUCH easier to navigate than your digital cable box.

While it may take some getting used to I think you will find it MUCH easier to navigate than your digital cable box. Setting up a Season Pass is very simple and after you have set your TiVo to record what you want it is as easy as can be.

Also, to answer your question, the only interface you should be using after installing TiVo is the TiVo's interface. Tivo will change the channel on your digital cable for you.

Posted by: where1

Go for it. The TiVo will "own" the cable box. My cable box is hidden in a cabinet, and the remote is hidden away.

Once TiVo has established a Now Playing list (list of shows recorded on the TiVo), you probably will stop channel surfing. But keep the cable hooked to your TV so you can watch something live if you want while TiVo is busy.

Posted by: pgogborn

quote:
Originally posted by steve577
its not so much whether a person can learn to operate TiVo as does one really want to go to the trouble?

The irritating answer to this is "it depends". To give a small example, it seems that there is some evidence that people using TiVo's watch less "live" television than people with VCRs.

One of the reasons why people watch less live television is because the TiVo interface, with things like the "Season Pass" and "Wish Lists", is both quicker and easier to use than the alternatives.

However, here comes the "it depends" bit. My favorite television viewing consists of things like political thrillers - I enjoy discussing the plot lines with other people, I do not want to find out what happened next before I get to view the program. Therefore I like to watch the program as it is being broadcast and TiVo's ease of use when recording programs is a wasted expense.

On the other hand I do use the "pause live tv" feature a lot. I can do a small task, answer the telephone, dash off an email, use the toilet etc and not miss part of a program. This feature is easy to use, but I would still use it even if it was difficult. However, judging by some polls on this forum (which are just for fun) my love of the pause live tv feature is very much a minority one

Posted by: Philosofy

My mom is 65, and just started learning to use the TiVo after my dad passed away (he was 66, and loved the TiVo.) It took a month or two for her to get the hang of it (she would call me quite a bit, but it was mostly figuring out how to put her TV on the proper input.) She hasn't had any questions in quite awhile now, but does watch her shows religiously. One difference she has from most of us is she still watches a lot of live TV. Most of us, when we get used to watching on our schedules, not the networks, don't watch live TV. Its so much better to be able to zip through commercials.

TiVo is the best invention since the television. Definitely give it a try Steve577!

Posted by: daperlman

My mother definitely has the *electronics-awareness level of a 90 (though she is only 58) year old and she loves her TiVos.

*she once called Direct TV CSR b/c the PIP window on her TV was inadvertently turned on

Posted by: OLdDog

I am over 50 and have no problem.

I have much more confidence that a senior can figure it out than I have that a recent HS grad can.

To hook up TiVo and make it work is VERY simple, IF YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, as long as the setup is not too complicated and most seniors have a very simple setup. I don't but I am an exception. Most seniors have something like signal source->TV type of setup with a few having sicnal source->VCR->TV. With either system adding a TiVo is easy and using the TiVo function is easy as well.

Recent HS grads, mostly, have never been taught how to folow instructions as the modern educational system spoon feeds the answers to those that stay awake.

I am NOT talking about any advanced features just the basic TiVo functions. Instalation and use is as simple as following the bouncing ball for song lyrics in and old cartoon.

Posted by: LooseWiring

Yes, and we all know what the education system was like back in the old days.

"Ok, kids, as soon as we discuss the four basic food groups we are going to watch a movie about the Evil Commies and learn how to Duck and Cover.

Posted by: dmdeane

quote:
Originally posted by LooseWiring
Yes, and we all know what the education system was like back in the old days.

"Ok, kids, as soon as we discuss the four basic food groups we are going to watch a movie about the Evil Commies and learn how to Duck and Cover.

Thus demonstrating that you are a product of the modern public school system here in America (or anyway, you've absorbed the official propaganda about the alleged "bad old days").

Read this and weep:

Questions: What percentage of this year's seniors and last year's high school graduates could pass the following 8th grade test required in 1895, even if the few outdated questions were modernized? How many college students could pass it? For that matter, what percentage of high school teachers could pass it? And - - what percentage of today's schools have standards for promotion from 8th grade equal to or tougher than those required in 1895?

8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, Kansas - 1895

This is the eighth-grade final exam* from 1895 from Salina, Kansas. It was taken
from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society
and Library in Salina, Kansas and reprinted by the Salina Journal.

Posted by: Zirak

quote:
Originally posted by steve577

The TV tuner is far faster for flipping through the channels than the Digital Cable box (which like TiVo, is slow to put an actual picture on the screen due to the bottleneck created by the microprocessor).

My mom can't handle putting a dvd in a dvd player and hitting play. Same with a VCR. She could never do tivo. But, my mom couldn't post here on her own, and can barely handle email. Hooking up a telephone is difficult for her. I don't think you are in the her category. If you can hook up and use a dvd player, you should be able to do the same with a tivo.

As for why to get one, well I'm not going to hit the overused phrase of "it changes how you watch tv." But its very nice to pick up shows from overnight, and have it grab movies that you have interest in seeing but never told the tivo to record. In that respect, its way worth it.

Tivo has major surfing delays though, which are a concern for you. It only took me a couple of days to stop surfing the "old" way, and to start surfing the guide instead. In the end, its much faster that way, so, for me, the channel change delay becomes irrelevant.

Posted by: pgogborn

quote:
Originally posted by dmdeane

What percentage of this year's seniors and last year's high school graduates could pass the following ... eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, Kansas.

What I would also like to know is what percentage of the USA adult population in 1895 could pass the exam.

Posted by: Hench

I have been using Tivo since it started. No problem. I'm 72.

Posted by: Ladd Morse

quote:
Read this and weep:

Questions: What percentage of this year's seniors and last year's high school graduates could pass the following 8th grade test required in 1895, even if the few outdated questions were modernized?

I am loathe to continuing the hijacking of this discussion, but please allow me to point out that a
quick search of various "urban rumor" sites will find that the above article is just that -- an urban rumor. Small kernal of fact with much embroidery.

While of course one is free to conclude that informational articles debunking myths may have no more validity than the story in question, it would seem that at best, the test was actually an employment exam for prospective teachers, not 8th grade students.

Please review the following articles on this subject:

TruthOrFiction:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/1895exam.htm

Urban Rumor Reference Pages:
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.htm

Posted by: steve577

Adults collectively are much smarter today than they were in 1895. Just take a look at a 1903 Buick compared to a 2003 Buick.

Today, each individual doesn't have to memorize everything. This is the information age, and if you want to know something, the information is available.

Posted by: keithpa

Steve,

The answer depends on the senior. If you can assemble a computer out of the box and operate it, you are more than able to run TIVO. TIVO is easier to operate then programming a VCR. However, if the senior can not program a VCR there is a very good chance they will not be able to operate all of TIVOs functions.

Posted by: smark

Just a note... if you think those cable boxes are slow (Example being the DCT 2000) for changing channels you should check out the 5100. That sucker changes QUICK.

Posted by: steve577

Okay, I'm convinced that doddering old fool that I am, I could install and operate a TiVo and use its features. But I don't have any experience setting up a home network, and wonder how much trouble it would be to set up a wireless network so that once the initial phone line connected setup is done, the TiVo could get its info from the internet and I could send info to my TiVo as to what programs to record using my computer instead of tediously clicking thru menus using the remote.

Anybody out there that is ethernet connected rather than phone line connected?

Posted by: steve577

On second thought....I see that web-based recording management for selecting shows to record does work with dial-up, but it takes up to 36 hours for your TiVo to receive the information.

Posted by: Red Pimpernel

Stephen,

Setting up your programs to record isn't as tedious as you think. And using the remote does not require keen eyesight. Once you get the layout down for where the buttons are you can do it all by touch. Most of us are using those remotes in the dark, all you need to know is which way is up, and the hard TiVo button at the top center does that. The only time I am squinting at my remote is when I am trying to see the numbers to punch in a 3 digit channel change.

Once you get your season passes input, maintenance on incidental programing is not that big a deal. Try it, you really won't miss your computer keyboard. :)

Red

Posted by: jamesbobo

I bought my TiVo at age 50. I was always able to program a VCR and I did set up my computer out of the box as well as install the printer and scanner. Setting up the TiVo was very easy for me. Using the menus for recording and finding shows is a snap.
But that is the limit of my capabilites. Taking out the hard drive and replacing it with a larger one is beyond me. But that is something I never found necessary anyway.

Posted by: steve577

quote:
Originally posted by jamesbobo
Taking out the hard drive and replacing it with a larger one is beyond me. But that is something I never found necessary anyway.

From what I have read on this forum, you'd never want to add a second hard drive to the series 2 unit because the power supply isn't big enough to power up two hard drives at once.

Posted by: dmdeane

quote:
Originally posted by Ladd Morse
I am loathe to continuing the hijacking of this discussion, but please allow me to point out that a
quick search of various "urban rumor" sites will find that the above article is just that -- an urban rumor. Small kernal of fact with much embroidery.

While of course one is free to conclude that informational articles debunking myths may have no more validity than the story in question, it would seem that at best, the test was actually an employment exam for prospective teachers, not 8th grade students.

Please review the following articles on this subject:

TruthOrFiction:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/1895exam.htm

Urban Rumor Reference Pages:
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.htm

Sorry, but in this instance the "urban rumor" debunking sites are full of it; they are completely and totally wrong.

This just goes to show that "debunking" isn't always what it claims to be. It is often ideologically motivated and intended to divert attention from the facts at hand. The point of the article was not that kids are not as smart today, but that the public education system does not hold them to the same standards.

It is entirely irrelevent what percentage of the general public could have passed the test in 1895, since the question was not whether one generation was "smarter" than another, but whether their public education system was designed to actually educate their children (until they reached their maximum educational level), turning them into independent and self-reliant citizens of a minimal-state republic, or whether it was, as is the case today, designed to keep them out of the workforce for as long as possible (thus keeping the jobless rates down), and in the process stuffing their heads with modernist, egalitarian, statist dogma, designed to turn them into a class of soulless drones and credit-driven consumers, completely incapable of independent thought, and thus perfect subjects for the modern totalitarian welfare/warfare state we are rapidly evolving into.

Rather than deny that, the snopes article and the other one "debunks" this by changing the subject - to whether "all people" are smarter or dumber today, which is beside the point. They also tacitly admit that this test is genuine, but then try to imply (without proof) that it isn't "really" a final exam for 8th graders. Fine then; look at some other tests from that time period. They will still show a much higher standard than today's education system.

This is of course entirely off topic, but I could not pass up dumb comments that older educational systems were "dumb" because they taught the "four food groups" or "duck and cover".

The notion that we are smarter today because we have more advanced technology is equally fallacious; technology is advanced by a comparative handful of people, building on the works of others (many of them long dead). I'd wager the average intelligence of a citizen of classical Athens was way above our average, but they didn't have the benefit of a thousand years of Western science to build on.

In any case, the point was the standard one is held to by public education, not whether we are today "collectively" smarter than past generations. Going on purely anecdotal evidence, though, I'd say we are in no position, collectively, to assert our general superiority of intelligence over past generations. Unless you want to claim that somehow the "collective overall group intelligence" somehow translates directly into advances in technology (which by itself is not the sole indicator of intelligence, either).

Both the Cro-Magnon (who were modern humans) and Neanderthals (who weren't) had larger brains than we do. I'd wager that the Cro-Magnon at least, would have no problem mastering our technology today; they just didn't have the "luck" to be born as a modern 21st century American, and hence, they had no reason to feel a sense of (unearned) smug superiority to previous generations who were "too stupid" to be born in modern times.

So, back on topic: old folks can certainly figure out TiVo. Wanting to figure it out, however, is another matter entirely.

Posted by: nmiller855

I "loaned" my dad one when he was 75. He was a bit leery at first but soon mastered it. He won't even think of turning on a computer. He's now almost 78 and loves being able to turn on the TV and watch things on his timetable.

Posted by: pgogborn

quote:
Originally posted by dmdeane

It is entirely irrelevent what percentage of the general public could have passed the test in 1895, since the question was not whether one generation was "smarter" than another, but whether their public education system was designed to actually educate their children

In that case, perhaps I should have asked, assuming that the questions were an eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, Kansas - how many of those eighth graders passed it, how many did the school board expect (want?) to pass.

Also, what would have happened if the questions had been slightly changed at the last moment. For example, what if instead of the question "Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each. " the question had been "Name all the monarchies of Asia and give capital of each."

Posted by: mjh

quote:
Originally posted by pgogborn
In that case, perhaps I should have asked, assuming that the questions were an eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, Kansas

Any chance you two can take this to PM?

Posted by: megory

I'm an old dog and I CAN learn new tricks. And I DO!

I don't think age is an issue at all. I think a certain flexible thinking and mental stretching is helpful.

Hooking it up was no problem for me (and hey, I'm "senior" AND a woman:D but I'm NOT an old fart) and running it has been no problem.

I see a situation, think of all the possible solutions, ask others for their solutions, try things out until problem is solved.

TiVO did NOT work as I wanted it to in the beginning, so I learned to think like Tivo (just like when I started in computers 25 years ago). Some features I wanted weren't and aren't offered, so I learned to work with what is there.

I started setting up WishLists and Seasons Passes, and went from there. I noticed that I was reliant on "real time" programs (news at 6-7, certain other programs told me what time it was) and I figured that was all right. It is ALL RIGHT to keep watching real time live television so long as it works for me.

Eventually, I noticed I watched less and less real-time TV. And recently, I have noticed that I don't wanna watch real time . . . well, I want at LEAST a 15 minute delay so I can FF through the ads and the boring stuff.

All this took time. Since I'm a confident "senior" willing to march to my own clicheed drummer, I did NOT conform to the tivocommunity compulsion that RealTime is evil. But I have noticed that I watch less of it now than ever.

In fact, I had the TV on earlier today and was watching something I liked. I immediately started taping it, and switched to a show I had already recorded -- so I can watch this morning's show later and FF over the stuff I don't wanna see. Those freakin shows take far, far, too long, and I now don't choose to sit through stuff I don't want.

It's sort of the freedom of being unconventional and older. When I eat a meal, I give myself permission to eat what I like and not eat what I don't want. Tivo does that for me with television. Choice.

So, old boy, don't get your knickers in a twist before you even begin. Get the danged thing and see how many things you can deal with right away. Then learn the system, and see how you want Tivo to be your slave! New systems take time to adopt. Don't push the river.

Clicheed, old, immature MG

Posted by: pgogborn

quote:
Originally posted by pgogborn

Also, what would have happened if the questions had been slightly changed at the last moment. For example, what if instead of the question "Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each. " the question had been "Name all the monarchies of Asia and give capital of each."

My serious point being that ability to use the TiVo can be influenced by several skills, including the deployment of transferable skills and the ability to learn by rote. My obscure implication is that learning by rote is not necessarily the best method.

If you can log on to and navigate your way through the menus on this forum you have a transferable skill that indicates that you can quickly learn how to use the TiVo. The menu hierarchies in this forum and the TiVo are not that different in complexity.

If, on the other hand, you have not had previous experience of navigating through a menu hierarchy, you may have to make more use of the TiVo manual than the person with transferable skills. This method, akin to learning by rote, can take longer and depends on how user friendly you find the instruction manual. This forum may not be the best place to assess how easy it is to use the instruction manual because many members made more use of transferable skills than the manual.

However, in the UK at least, if my memory is correct, there is at least one interesting TiVo feature that is not obvious, either by deploying transferable skills or by reading the manual.

If you are in the Now Playing menu, select a program and before selecting play press the enter/jump key, you will see an extra long description of the program (actors, directors, episode number etc).

megory rightly endorses the willingness to "try things out until problem is solved" as a factor in learning to use the TiVo. This method is particularly useful if aided either by transferable skills or knowledge learnt by rote.

Posted by: megory

quote:
If you are in the Now Playing menu, select a program and before selecting play press the enter/jump key, you will see an extra long description of the program (actors, directors, episode number etc).

Great tip! Thanks.

The other trick I know is to sort you press
Slow
O
Record
Thumbs Up

Then you can sort your list. Only THAT list.

There are tricks. I'll try to figure out how I can search this forum for a list of these secrets.

MG

Posted by: David Platt

quote:
Originally posted by megory
There are tricks. I'll try to figure out how I can search this forum for a list of these secrets.

MG

Here's a good place to start.

Posted by: megory

That's what I wanted! Thanks Thanks Thanks.

Of course, now I have all those codes, I can't think why I'd use them :D but I like knowing they are in my files just in case.

Sort and Extra info are the most important to me right now.

Thanks again!

Posted by: Richard Casto

quote:
Originally posted by dmdeane
Sorry, but in this instance the "urban rumor" debunking sites are full of it; they are completely and totally wrong.

Sorry to contribute to the highjacking of this tread....

But what proof do you have that the 1895 test is true? At least one of the quotes the debunking sites provide some information that backs up their arguments and they just say it is not yet proven to be true. The other may or may not be correct in their interpretation of it being false. I doubt that urban legend/debunking sites are "often ideologically motivated and intended to divert attention from the facts at hand". Are black helicopters involved in this somewhere? Most probably want to debunk to prevent the spreading of false stories.

Regarding ideological motivation, what was your motivation to bring this up in this thread in the first place?

Posted by: bobnick

quote:
Originally posted by megory
Great tip! Thanks.

The other trick I know is to sort you press
Slow
O
Record
Thumbs Up

Then you can sort your list. Only THAT list.

There are tricks. I'll try to figure out how I can search this forum for a list of these secrets.

MG

Man, that's just harsh! We UK users are denied the wonders of sorting and folders - there's no need to rub it in! Showing off like that in an argument like this is hitting below the belt ;)

(and yes, we've been paying top whack subscribtions for years, and no, we don't have the opportunity to purchase a series 2 :( )

Posted by: megory

Sheesh, I hate to be accidentally insensitive -- especially to the Island of my forbearers . . . but are you SURE you are denied this pleasure on your NowShowing list??

Try it a few times, just in case.

Regards from sunny warm Floriduh
(heheheh . . . that was an intentional gloat <g> it is 88 and breezy today)

MG
Gulfport

Posted by: bobnick

quote:
Originally posted by megory
Sheesh, I hate to be accidentally insensitive -- especially to the Island of my forbearers . . . but are you SURE you are denied this pleasure on your NowShowing list??

Try it a few times, just in case.

Regards from sunny warm Floriduh
(heheheh . . . that was an intentional gloat <g> it is 88 and breezy today)

MG
Gulfport

Tried many, many times with no success.
When Tivo first came out in the UK, we didn't get any software updates for a while, as there was a big push to get our Tivos running the same program on both sides of the atlantic (which would make future updates easier). We then got upgraded to 2.5.5 which was nice, but haven't recieved anything since - and there's nothing coming our way in the future :(
So we miss out on all the lovely sorting etc, and Tivo is putting all of the fab new features into S2 models to encourage people to upgrade. Which is a real bummer, as S2 models aren't for sale in britain (and S1 have all sold out too, so I hope mine doesn't break soon!). As a slight grump, we Brits have always had to pay 15 dollars a month (300 lifetime) from the launch of Tivo too.

However, I'm currently in California, where it's almost 88 degrees too so I can't complain too much!

Posted by: megory

California 88? WOW! You must be inland!

My Tivo is a Series 1 SVR 2000 and I think it is running 3.1 software.

It must be the broader A that causes the difference.

Glad you're in sunny CA! It's prolly a lot dryer there than here!

MG
Floriduh

Posted by: Jerry Keller

quote:
Originally posted by smark
Just a note... if you think those cable boxes are slow (Example being the DCT 2000) for changing channels you should check out the 5100. That sucker changes QUICK.

Do you have a 5100? Does your TiVO change it?

Posted by: smark

IR blaster will change it since it uses the same codes as the DCT2000.

Posted by: sw10025

My mother is in her early 60s, is one of the most technologically challenged people I know, she can't program the VCR, she couldn't learn how to use email or the internet without much spousal pestering and classes (and even then she regularly screws up the computer and yells for help), she routinely manages to kill any device that uses electricity. She didn't want Tivo, was absolutely resistant to it, and yet she learned how to use the Tivo pretty quickly, she uses it every day routinely without blowing it up and now loves it, wouldn't live without it. If she can do it, virtually anyone can. Also, I'll agree, you don't need good vision to use the Tivo remote, its simple and well organized enough that you'll automatically learn how to use it without even really looking at the buttons.

OT, as for the purported 1895 8th grade exam, I have no idea whether it is legit or not, but I think I personally could pass it, even being hampered by not knowing how long a "rod" is, or the volume or weight of a bushel. The history major in me does find it interesting, assuming its legitimate, in that it demonstrates the difference in educational priorities and content in different eras. Reminds me of the time in the early 90s when our law firm's in-house expert, who was some 10-15 years older than I, wanted to try out a video demonstration on DNA replication and I was one of the guinea pigs. I was somewhat offended when she asked me if I had ever heard of DNA or knew what it was and replied huffily "well, yes, I went to elementary school". The difference was my generation learned about DNA in the 4th grade, if not earlier, not so for her generation.

Of course, as a former history major, I also suspect that the percentage of the U.S. population that actually stays in school through the 8th grade now is substantially larger than it was in 1895.

Posted by: megory

Hey, I'm a teacher and that test -- nifty as it is -- is purportedly urban legend.

Understand, I'm not saying that today's kids read or have knowledge or manners . . .

Ummm . . . oops . . . wrong forum . . . wrong thread . . . I'll go back to teachers.net.

MG