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Automatic Kalashnikov Documentary
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Posted by: JohnJr

Anyone else want to like hire a good patent lawyer and go help ol' Kalashnikov get a patent? :D 75 million AK-47s sold world wide. Now that's gun control! <grin>

I give this documentary a pretty middle of the road rating. Definately interesting for the subject it covers, but also well on the boring/long side in disseminating the information. Worth a watch if you are interested in the AK-47s development and history.

Looks like another showing on Sundance this coming Friday.

-John

Posted by: retrodog

Thanks for the "heads up". I'll try to catch it. :)

Posted by: JohnJr

I thought you might like to catch it retro. :) I remember some of your pics of your cache... but I don't recall if you have an AK. Do you?

-John

EDIT: Heck, are they even still legal here? Or were they part of that assault weapon ban? Or are they grandfathered?

Posted by: danielobvt

They are still legal in the US. Some states (CA, MA) are trying to slowly make them illegal.

I really like the one chambered in 5.56mm.

Good show.

Posted by: JohnJr

Having one of them would sure put the 12 gauge in my bedroom closet to shame for home defense purposes. :)

I enjoyed the show from a sort of business minded standpoint. It highlighted for me the fact that if you build a solid, dependable product, you will sell it and the buyers will be happy with it. I'm in the computer business, and as such am constantly trying to keep up with the Joneses, building ever faster and newer and greater PCs. Meanwhile, if I were to implement a solid, dependable design, and stick with it for an extended period, I may be serving my customers better, and in the end making more money.

-John

Posted by: dmdeane

Mail Call on the History Channel recently featured the WWII German Sturmgewehr, the spiritual ancestor of the AK, and the world's first "assault rifle" (selective fire military rifle using "intermediate" power ammo).

R. Lee Emery shot up some watermelons with the Sturmgewehr, which must have been with handloaded ammo, since the original 7.92x33mm Kurtz ammo is now an expensive collectors item.

Posted by: retrodog

quote:
Originally posted by JohnJr
Having one of them would sure put the 12 gauge in my bedroom closet to shame for home defense purposes. :)

I enjoyed the show from a sort of business minded standpoint. It highlighted for me the fact that if you build a solid, dependable product, you will sell it and the buyers will be happy with it. I'm in the computer business, and as such am constantly trying to keep up with the Joneses, building ever faster and newer and greater PCs. Meanwhile, if I were to implement a solid, dependable design, and stick with it for an extended period, I may be serving my customers better, and in the end making more money.

-John

The 12 is really the better home defense weapon in some ways. I'm against killing but I figure that anyone breaking into my house, and then not leaving when they hear that slide action, probably needs to be removed from the gene pool. The AK has got a lot of rounds but excessive penetration. You can kill a few family members or neighbors by mistake with the AK.

The AK was an interesting weapon, in terms of its commercial availability in the US. The Russian version sold for about $250 back in 85, when I first started collecting things. It was a very crude (but functional) weapon. Ruger made the .223 caliber Mini-14 and sold it for about $100 more ($350). It was a much nicer and more refined rifle. A lot of people bought the AK because of price. Later, in 89, the thing was banned from import. The Modified AK for 1990(MAK-90) started coming in from China. The good ones from China Sports (Norinco)sold for about $150. They were for all purposes pretty much just an AK-47 with a thumbhole stock. Those lasted till the Assault Weapons ban of 94. Now you can get others from Romania and Bulgaria and the like. There's even a company or two in Texas that build them. The going price range seems to be $300-$500. The high end being the Texas built version. I'm not sure where all the parts come from but reviewers seem to like them, some more than others.

Personally, I got a couple of the MAK-90s back when they were going for $145 a piece. They work great and haven't broken anything on them yet. I even sold one to a good friend back when the Y2K thing was an issue.

Posted by: JohnJr

quote:
Originally posted by dmdeane
Mail Call on the History Channel recently featured the WWII German Sturmgewehr, the spiritual ancestor of the AK, and the world's first "assault rifle" (selective fire military rifle using "intermediate" power ammo).

R. Lee Emery shot up some watermelons with the Sturmgewehr, which must have been with handloaded ammo, since the original 7.92x33mm Kurtz ammo is now an expensive collectors item.

I think they did mention that weapon as one of the predecessors to the AK in the documentary. Cool, I'll have to look for that show!

-John

Posted by: JohnJr

quote:
Originally posted by retrodog
The Modified AK for 1990(MAK-90) started coming in from China.

...Personally, I got a couple of the MAK-90s back when they were going for $145 a piece. They work great and haven't broken anything on them yet. I even sold one to a good friend back when the Y2K thing was an issue.

Cool retro, thanks for the education. The only time I've ever shot my 12 gauge is while skeet shooting with my grandfather. I was probably 14 or so at the time. I was half-way joking about the AK for home defense, as I do realize it is a very destructive weapon. Neat stuff!

-John

Posted by: JohnJr

Oh, and the main weapons they mentioned as part of the "assault rifle" class, were the M-16 (USA), the Uzi (Israel), and the AK (USSR). There may have been one more, but I forget.

You hear all the time on the news about Uzi this, Uzi that, secondarily the AK, but I can't recall when I've heard a news story about an M-16.

-John

Posted by: retrodog

quote:
Originally posted by JohnJr
Oh, and the main weapons they mentioned as part of the "assault rifle" class, were the M-16 (USA), the Uzi (Israel), and the AK (USSR). There may have been one more, but I forget.

You hear all the time on the news about Uzi this, Uzi that, secondarily the AK, but I can't recall when I've heard a news story about an M-16.

-John

Well the AR-15 is the semi-auto civilian version of the M-16, more or less. You probably heard a lot about the Bushmaster one last year, right after the DC area sniper activity.

Major infantry weapons since WWII that you hear about are:

M-16/AR-15
AK-47 (preceded by the SKS)
Uzi
FAL (FN FAL)
HK-91 (G3)
M14
MP-5
Galil
Mini-14 (third world countries)

And others that I've forgotten right now. But these make up the majority I suppose

Bear in mind that the Uzi and the MP-5 are close quarters weapons used primarily by special units, and usually in 9mm. The others are much more powerful rifle calibers.

Oh, extra interesting point. Although the Uzi is an Israeli weapon (made by them), they needed a good sand rifle cause the FN FAL didn't handle fine sand very well. They developed the Galil. I guess it works pretty good. But when I was over there in 86, they were pretty much all carrying the M-16. The only Uzis that I saw were carried by security around the Ben Gurian (sp) airport, probably cause they didn't need the range of a rifle.

Posted by: johnjohn

What about the HK G36?

Posted by: johnjohn

Was this anything like the "Tales of the Gun" documentary on the AK-47? BTW, my schedule says Thu 7/31/2003 at 11:15pm on Sundance.

Posted by: retrodog

quote:
Originally posted by johnjohn
What about the HK G36?

When I made the statement "Major infantry weapons since WWII that you hear about are:" I was limiting the category to what we were talking about. The G36 is too new of a weapon to be in this category. As related to arms that have been around long enough to flourish in the public eye.

But hey, it's got a lot of neat features and I'd take one in a heartbeat. ;)

Unfortunately, the only thing you can get is a G36 mod kit to make another rifle look like it. :(

Interestingly enough, the blowback system was based on the Armalite AR-18, which eventually got picked up by an Aussie company and then, in turn, picked back up by Bushmaster and became the M-17 bullpup. And that is one that I do have. ;)

Posted by: Faro

The Israelies stopped carrying their version of the AK, the Galil, because it was so darned heavy and then the Americans were giving them the M-16 for free. They still use the micro-Galil for tank drivers and other places were a short, smaller rifle is needed.