TiVo Community Forums Archives - New hard drive is loud

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

New hard drive is loud
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: salisbury

Good news: I upgraded my HDVR2 with a new Seagate 120G drive to replace the Maxtor 40G. The upgrade went completely smoothly.

Bad news: The new drive is definitely louder than the old one. I specifically got the Seagate because it was supposedly among the quieter drives. I never heard the head seeks at all on the Maxtor, but the Seagate I can hear from across the room. It's not actually loud, but I expected not to hear it at all. Is this normal for Seagate? Should I have just stuck with Maxtor? I'm not aware of an 'amset' tool for seagates.

--mike

Posted by: salisbury

By the way, the disk is a ST3120022A. Does anyone know the difference between that and a -23A?

--mike

Posted by: notmestl

According to Seagate's page the -23A has the "softsonic motor" and the "quietest acoustics". So, this is probably the drive you wanted. It is, however, a bit slower. This drive runs at a seek time of 9.4ms avg compared to the 8.5ms avg of the -22A. :p

Check out http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/guide/

at the bottom of the page is the desktop hard drive listing.

I have one of thier older/smaller acoustic drives in my pc and I have to say it is indeed the quietest drive I have never heard.

Posted by: alansh

The Barracuda V drives are the ultra quiet ones. The 7200.7 series has higher performance at the expense of more noise. I have the ST3120023A and it is extremely quiet.

Posted by: devnull

I don't know about Seagate, but Maxtor has a utility (amset) that quites seek noise by giving up some performance.

My 120G Maxtor could be heard very clearly before I used amset. Now it's as quiet as can be.

gary

Posted by: mmoore99

I too just finished upgrading my Tivo Series 2 Standalone (40GB) with two Seagate 120GB drives (model ST3120024A) that I purchased from GoogleGear. As described above these drives are very noisy compared to the 40GB Western Digital drive that came with the Tivo. I am very disappointed given that I was led to believe that the Seagate drives were supposed to be very quiet. Certainly not in my case. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Posted by: SpiralFix

Same problem here. I just purchased a "160GB SAMSUNG 7200 SP1604N" and it is slightly louder than my previous drive. It's OEM so it didn't come with any software. Anyone know if there is an acoustic management software that will work with this drive?

Thanks!

Posted by: TurboVR4

I bought a Western Digital Caviar 120g drive to replace the Maxtor 40g and the seek on it was so noisy, I couldn't stand it. WD does not offer up any kind of Acoustic Management software either for these drives. I then found this handy little utility that is supposedly compatible with all ATA COMPATIBLE Hardrives and it provides Automatic Acoustic Management capability. I ran it on my Western Digital and set it to the quietest mode = 128 and now all I hear is the fan in my Hughes HDVR2, and I have noticed no performance degradation what so ever. It runs from DOS. Give it a try. :-)

Posted by: salisbury

Looking at the specs for the ST3120022A, it has three acoustic
measurements, for Idle, Quiet Seek, and Performance Seek. Great,
it looks like the drive does support some kind of acoustic management.
So I wrote to Seagate to see if they had a utility to do this, and
got the following response:

-----------------

Seagate has decided that we will no longer support AAM. Seagate is in the
process of removing all product information pertaining to the support of
AAM.

Our drives are extremely quiet while operating at the highest performance
levels, so we believe the ability to switch between Modes is unnecessary.

We are also involved in patent litigation with Convolve and MIT. Although
we believe the lawsuit is without merit, Convolve alleges
that one of its patents, US Patent No. 6,314,473, covers AAM technology.

We understand that Convolve told the T-13 standards committee that it
would license its patents on a reasonable, non-discriminatory basis.

If you want a utility that will switch AAM modes you must procure it from
a third party. Seagate cannot make any recommendations as to what third
party utility you choose to use, nor do we in any way support the
utilities. However you can perform an Internet search for Automatic
Acoustic Management and select from the available 3rd party utilities.

Jimmie P.
Seagate Technical Support
------------

Okay, so I'm set, right. I find two utilities, both mentioned here before.
Hitachi's ftool, and ataac listed above. Build myself a little floppy to run
them from, and poof. No go. My drive doesn't support Automatic Acoustic
Management.

So I'm back to where I started. I have no idea what the Quiet Seek mode
listed in the docs refers to or how to turn it on. If anybody has any ideas
I'm all ears.

-mike

Posted by: mmoore99

I gave up on the Seagate drives and replaced them with two Samsung SP1213N, 120MB drives. The Samsung drives are very quiet...a significant improvement compared to the Seagates. Got the Samsung drives for $95.

Posted by: tivoyahoo

salisbury wrote:

quote:
Okay, so I'm set, right. I find two utilities, both mentioned here before. Hitachi's ftool, and ataac listed above.

I don't think you need both unless I'm missing something.

I don't think Ataac will do anything that the Hitachi Feature Tool won't. I tried Ataac just now after seeing it posted in this thread, but still like the Hitachi tool better. I believe the Hitachi works with all drives that support the AAM feature. I've used it on Maxtor and Hitachi/IBM drives.

The Hitachi tool has a test feature where you can hear the seeks and adjust the value along a bar for values 128 to 254 (255) and get instant feedback. And since it takes some experimentation to get the value optimized, that's important. In fact, the Ataac readme even suggests experimenting.

from ataac readme:

quote:
The actual number of modes is left up to the disk manufacturer. It's possible that a drive operates in "quiet mode" from 128 to 190 and in "fast mode" from 191 to 254. Some disks can even only remember the two values 128 and 254 - you have to experiment a little to figure it out for your drive. If AAM can be deactivated is also up to the manufacturer, and so is the behavior of the drive when AAM is off (fast, quiet or in between).

However, the ataac tool doesn't provide an easy means to adjust and test the value in comparison to the Hitachi tool.

Posted by: dpjax

Any idea if the WD1200JB 120GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM drive supports Acoustic Management and can be adjusted with ATAAC?

I have a 160gb fluid maxtor 7200 8mb cache drive in the living which is quite, the western digital 120gb is loud as heck in the bedroom and needs either a software fix or some kind of dynamat or other dampener.

Ideas?

Posted by: TiVo-Thom

My Maxtor 160s are quiet, and I have not performed the "AAM" operation to them, though I would forgo for performance unless they were noisey, and as luck would have it, not the case!

Posted by: Waynehead

I have 2 Maxtor Fluid 80G on my HDR212 and I can't hear them running at all unless I am right on top of the unit. From my experiance with computers and hd's, I think that the Maxtor drive is the best for the money you pay. They run a little hotter then most but seem to be the most reliable. (for me at least):) :)

Posted by: DVDKingdom

quote:
Originally posted by dpjax
Any idea if the WD1200JB 120GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM drive supports Acoustic Management

I can't say if ataac can set that drive. I can say for sure it does
support Acoustic Management because that drive came pre-installed
in my new computer and I've been able to use Intel Application Accelerator
to set between three choices.

1. Maximum Performance
2. Minimum Acoustic Output
3. Disabled

Posted by: davedave

Don't Buy a Barracuda!

The original Maxtor that came with the unit was 100% quiet, even with my ear pressed against the drive.

Upon upgrading it to a Barracuda, I could hear the clickity-click of the seeks across the room, even after putting it into quiet mode. Dell sent a replacement and it was just as noisy. Resolved by placing the HDVR2 into a closet and buying some longer cables.

Later on, I added a Samsung but didn't test for noise since it no longer mattered...

Posted by: Heinrich

My Western Digitals get louder and louder with time. I have a 60GB that sounds like an airplane. No kidding! I think that one's going into my "parents for Christmas" computer - they're half-deaf anyway.

I did just get a 120GB Seagate from CompUSA with the $70 rebate and it is currently extremely quiet.

Posted by: vsop

I have a 120Gb Barracuda that I just installed in my HDVR2 Model #st3120026a And its just a bit louder then the 40gb that came with the unit.. But With cover on I can not tell the diffrence...

Posted by: acampo

HELP!
I upgraded hdrv2 with two 120GB western digital caviar 8mg cache drives.
the noise is not bearable. even when its on standby. it whines....
like a loud computer.
question. those who have used the ATAAC utility... especially turbovr4...
did it help the noise even when in standby?
can i use the utility with active drives?
just drop the drives in my computer... boot from a dos floppy.. run the utility.. and pop back in the hdrvr2?
thanks,

Posted by: TiVo-Thom

Unfortunately the acoustic management software only affects seek activity on the drive, it is not designed to reduce spindle noise on the drive. I have used that drive in other applications and am somewhat surprised that they are so loud that you are hearing spindle whine, I mean they clatter alot but are pretty well behaved as far as the spindle is concerned. I would carefully check (through some safe means!) to see if it is just one of the drives. It may be that you have a defective drive!

Posted by: acampo

Tivo-Thom,
I removed the cover and listened to both.
You are correct. One of the drives is causing the loud whine.
The drive is still working but is probably unreliable at this point. I wonder if western digital will provide warranty replacement on a whining drive. Its bound to fail soon and I would rather not lose data....

Posted by: jayerndl

quote:
Originally posted by acampo
I wonder if western digital will provide warranty replacement on a whining drive.

Here is what WD says on their web site regarding noise:

quote:
Current drive technology dictates that some noise will occur during drive operation. The type of noise and the volume of the noise can change depending on the current function that the drive is involved in. It is important to recognize which noises indicate trouble and which are simply normal drive sounds.

Normal drive sounds include:

Whining noise during drive spin-up
Occasional clicks during data access
Hard clicks during a head park operation (shutdown or sleep mode)

Abnormal drive sounds include:

High-pitched whining sound
Vibration sounds due to either vibration in the mounting hardware or in rare cases, a drive failure
Clicking or clunking sounds that occur repeatedly
Grinding sounds

The replaced one of my "whining" drives under warranty. Good luck.

Jay

Posted by: TiVo-Thom

I have ALWAYS had great reponse from Western Digital on warranty issues! As I recall, I simply provided a CC# they sent replacement drive, and was told that my card would be charged if the bad drive was not received! I guess at this point your most problematic issue will be the task of actually replacing the drive! Time to get out the MFS CD again! :)

Posted by: Sleestak

The easiest way to tell if your Seagate drive is one of the "quieter" ones is to turn it over. If it has an insulating plate on the bottom (and an installation instruction label), it's a quiet one. I bought a 7200.7, because it was listed as a Barracuda. But it isn't. ;( I haven't used it yet.

Posted by: DUDE_NJX

OK, so I'm looking for a big, quiet drive as a replacement for my SVR-3000 unit that started to whine like a siren a while ago. After reading some comments here, I'm torn between a 160GB Seagate and a 160GB Samsung.
Can anyone explain how is the Samsung quieter than Seagate if, according to website info:
Samsung is listed at 2.9 bels (idle) and 3.0 bels (r/w);
Seagate Barracuda (ST3160023A) = 2.5 bels (idle), 2.8 (quiet seek), and 3.4 (performance seek)
Is it that Seagate is operating at 3.4 most of the time, while Samsung at 3.0 bels? Or is there an undocumented difference in spinning noise (the REAL measure of HD noise, IMO)?

Posted by: QKriel

I upgarded from the 40 Gb to a 120Gb maxtor today and i have noticed that the head seeking is very loud.

I would like to know if one can use the 'amset' utility on a 'Tivo' drive or does this need to be run on a clean formatted drive and then Upgraded.

Thanks

Posted by: Tom76017

I upgraded my SVR-3000 to a 120Gig Maxtor 2 weeks ago. After my wife remarked about the seek noises, I pulled the drive and ran AMSET. The default, from Fry's was set to 'Performance' I changed it to '/quiet' and return it to my Series 2. Perfect!

BTW, I upgraded because the original drive (Maxtor 80Gig) was locking up on a bad sector. This forced unpluging the 110v since the remote was not responding. After getting a backup, ran the Maxtor's Powermax to detect and repair errors. It did a repair, but since the 120 was working, I just shelved the 80Gig drive.

Tom