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Angel 5x01 Spoilers
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Posted by: TiVaholic

So? I know there's the season 5 spoilers thread, but I'd rather not get into that. I think Eve is going to be interesting. I loved the first scene when everyone showed up...I was laughing there. BUT nothing beat the sacrifice department, after he got off the phone with the secretary (Harmony- she got a groan from me), "If you would like to sacrifice a friend or a loved one..." And the look on Angel's face was priceless! I had to pause it so I could finish laughing (a first for me)

Posted by: JYoung

I also liked when Angel was in the garage goijng "I can't choose"...

It was good episode, not great. I understand why all the exposition was going on but I think it slowed down the episode some.

And I miss Lila :(. I'm not sure Eve does it for me.
However, Harmony's line at the end was funny :D

Posted by: Gholrua

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
However, Harmony's line at the end was funny :D

Blondie-Bear?!! :D

Posted by: TiVaholic

Yeah, that one just about had me on the floor too :D:D

Posted by: JimSpence

This is not a spoiler in any way, but a speculation.
It's in spoiler tags anyway.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Anyone think that one or more of the new slayers will show up sometime?

Posted by: Kylep

I think Harmony added some pretty decent comedy. The blondie bear comment was excellent. Looks like she's going to be Angel's Xander... Useless except for a decent one-liner now and then.

I'm not so sure about what they are doing to Gunn... Are we supposed to believe that his reason for staying at W&H was to become a super-lawyer? And, reasons aside, are we really going to have to tolerate many courtroom scenes? That's just not Angelish... I was ok with this episode, but I could see it getting old real fast.

Posted by: sschwart

I couldn't stop laughing at this episode. From Harmony showing up, to the "If you would like to sacrifice a goat, press 1. To sacrifice a loved one or family member, press 2", and the last line by Harmony, I thought I was going to split my sides open.

I don't think we've gotten close to finding out what Gunn's deal is... Super-lawyer is surely but the tip of the iceberg.

I enjoyed the episode a lot. Just wish Lilah was there.

Posted by: Z'Loth

I miss Lilah.

Posted by: TreborPugly

quote:
Originally posted by Z'Loth
I miss Lilah.

Eve = Lilah - Wesley romance.

The Lilah/Wesley bit would get in the way if she were the go-between.

I don't really buy the "we have to help evil to fight evil" bit. In previous seasons, that argument from the bad guys would have been shoved down their throat by Angel. I hope they turn it around quickly.

They have command of this office. They could easily cut off all the evil clients, fire all the evil hirelings, stop making money, but keep all of the nifty mystical artifacts, and still kick some serious evil butt.

Money has never been a motivation for them, so why should it be a motivation now?

I think Gunn has had an inferiority complex for some time on the knowledge side of things. But he knows he's smart, so he takes a quick-learn class. My guess is that the Wolfram and Hart legal training program would include plenty of knowledge of the supernatural as well.

But, I imagine we'll see some failures to resist evil temptations this season, which should make things interesting between the regulars.

Treb.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
They have command of this office. They could easily cut off all the evil clients, fire all the evil hirelings, stop making money, but keep all of the nifty mystical artifacts, and still kick some serious evil butt.

Money has never been a motivation for them, so why should it be a motivation now?

Well, that's what they were saying--it's a business, and businesses have expenses. I'm guessing the expenses for W&H are astronomical (given their office and the payroll). And, as Eve said, if they go bankrupt, they lose everything; they no longer have W&H's resources.

It really was a diabolical plan on W&H's part. Angel now has astonishing resources in his battle against evil, but the resources ARE evil, and there's probably no way he can use them without being tainted (note his rather murderous response to his first ethical dilemma with the tactical team). And if he runs the business into the ground, he'll lose it, and the Home Office will just start again with somebody else--somebody not good.

Angel's screwed either way, and I suspect part of the point of this season will be him figuring that out.

Posted by: NJChris

Um... I thought angel couldn't (or avoid at all costs) kill humans.

Didn't he kill an awful lot here?

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

He CAN kill humans, and he does, if they're evil. (Buffy had a rule against killing humans, but that certainly didn't bind Angel).

And they WERE, after all, trying to murder a school-full of children...

Posted by: laria

I didn't get the Gilbert and Sullivan thing. We have been watching the West Wing on Bravo, and there was just an episode where all of them kept making Gilbert and Sullivan references, too. Is there some kind of lawyer inside joke about this? :)

Posted by: barclay

quote:
Originally posted by laria
I didn't get the Gilbert and Sullivan thing. We have been watching the West Wing on Bravo, and there was just an episode where all of them kept making Gilbert and Sullivan references, too. Is there some kind of lawyer inside joke about this? :)

Gilbert was an (not too successful) lawyer before he started writing operas.

As a result, many of the operas contain some sort of lawyer jokes in them, and there's Trial by Jury, which is often performed at law schools.

Posted by: JYoung

so what would Gunn's old gang's reaction be to him now?

Is he the ultimate sellout?

Posted by: Peter000

I couldn't tell what movie the poster was for that Fred was putting up in her office. At first I thought it was "Charlie's Angels" but it's something else I don't recognize.

Does anyone have a clearer picture than me and can tell the title?

Thanks!

Peter

Posted by: David Platt

I think it was of the Dixie Chicks.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by David Platt
I think it was of the Dixie Chicks.

Yep.

Posted by: Graymalkin

It's the cover art for the Dixie Chicks' "Home" album. But I don't know the album well enough to figure out what the in-joke is.

Posted by: allan

quote:
Originally posted by David Platt
I think it was of the Dixie Chicks.

Damn, she's already gone over to the dark side! ;)

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by Graymalkin
It's the cover art for the Dixie Chicks' "Home" album. But I don't know the album well enough to figure out what the in-joke is.

well Fred is from Texas......
maybe it's just something to add to her character....

Or, could you imagine if Fred and Wesley go to a Dixie Chicks concert?

Posted by: LoadStar

The only in-joke that I've heard is tied to the poster is that Joss Whedon has made several very negative comments about the current administration. This may have been his "shout out" to the Dixie Chicks, who also caught much flack for their negative comments on the same topic.

Posted by: LoadStar

My thoughts on this episode:

It appears there may be more to the memory wipe than it first appeared. I had been thinking that it was a similar spell to the one that Jonathan cast in BTVS's "Superstar," altering reality to make him a paragon and altering everyone's memories accordingly. I had thought that the spell would've just wiped the memories of events related to Connor - but did it actually wipe the events? And how far back does the memory wipe go?

The reason I raise the question - Skip (that one demon with the ring through its chin) said that events had been set up for quite some time to bring Jasmine about, including Connor's birth, the return of Darla, etc. So did all those memories, or even the events themselves, going back to second season, get wiped? It may appear so - when Harmony said "Boss?" both Angel and Wesley responded. This might echo back to second season during when Wesley was in charge of Angel Inc. It will be interesting to see how the memory wipe works out.

I was surprisingly less than annoyed by Harmony's return. They've really toned down her character from when she was last on during Buffy. She's still a flake, but less so than before. I can deal with her, as long as they don't go overboard. A little Harm can go a long way. :)

David put on an amazing performance as Angel in this episode. I loved his befuddled reaction to the W&H cadre swooping in and ruining his dramatic hero exit into the distance... and the whole running from car to car exclaiming "They're all so beautiful!" in the garage was priceless.

Nice continuity on the return of Spike... they managed to almost perfectly recreate his pose at the end of Buffy as he re-materialized. The only question - who mailed the amulet? Or did it mail itself?

Posted by: TiVaholic

I'm not so befuddled about who mailed it (which I'm sure will be explained tomorrow), but how the heck it got out from underneath Sunnydale. I mean, it was under not only the school, but the town!

Posted by: Kylep

quote:
Originally posted by LoadStar
The only in-joke that I've heard is tied to the poster is that Joss Whedon has made several very negative comments about the current administration. This may have been his "shout out" to the Dixie Chicks, who also caught much flack for their negative comments on the same topic.

Although I wasn't aware of Whedon's views, I also took it as showing support for the Dixie Chicks. I thought they made such an obvious effort to leave it in the shot that it could only have been a statement of some kind. I for one didn't appreciate it, it seemed tasteless, and out of place, but thats me.

quote:
I'm not so befuddled about who mailed it (which I'm sure will be explained tomorrow), but how the heck it got out from underneath Sunnydale. I mean, it was under not only the school, but the town!

Actually, wouldn't it have technically been in an entire other dimension (or plane, or whatever)? I mean, they accessed that place through the seal, it's not like they could have got there if they had just dug a hole next to that seal. :)

Posted by: Mike20878

Did anyone else notice the quick flashes in between scenes? One was of a black tiger just after Gunn walks out of his office that first night. Another was of (I think) the evil client they were trying to stop. Oh, and in one you could see Eve viewing the bloodshed at the school after Angel left.

Posted by: Fleegle

quote:
Originally posted by Mike20878
Did anyone else notice the quick flashes in between scenes? One was of a black tiger just after Gunn walks out of his office that first night. Another was of (I think) the evil client they were trying to stop. Oh, and in one you could see Eve viewing the bloodshed at the school after Angel left.

That wasn't a black tiger, that was the panther that Gunn saw when he was brought o teh White Room in last year's finale. He came out of the room calm and serene, but focused. He told the gang that regardless of what they did, he's staying there.

Posted by: Mike20878

quote:
Originally posted by Fleegle
That wasn't a black tiger, that was the panther that Gunn saw when he was brought o teh White Room in last year's finale. He came out of the room calm and serene, but focused. He told the gang that regardless of what they did, he's staying there.

Oh, right... I had my animals mixed up. :)

Posted by: rexdart

Now I say this having just watched 501, not yet seeing 502.

We got into a discussion about the future of Angel and how or if Spike was really going to be there. I had doubts about Spike being irrevocably destroyed and put forth my little theory as such:

first...

quote:
Well, here is the thing, we are all working from the assumption that Spike died and needs to be brought back. Did he die? Sure he glowed and went porous and all but how do we know that wasn't a transformation, planar ascension, or something else? The thing that keeps echoing in my head (well, one of many things) is "its my soul, I can feel it".

and later...

quote:
Help me out here gang, maybe the soul is in the amulet now? It finds its way back to W&H (or just L.A. period) and they use the Acme re-soul-integrator to bring him back?

So did I call it? Did I get close?

If you need to smack me down with info from 502 go ahead. God fortunately gave me both testicles and telling me something from a TV show I have not yet seen does nothing to fracture any part of my emotional makeup.

:D

Posted by: TiVaholic

A lot of people like to keep each episode thread separate from future episode info so that people can do what you did, come back after the new episode, and not be spoiled. Go watch 5x02!

Spoiler from that episode though:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
They didn't completely explain it yet, but reading that, I think you're pretty close. Good Job! :D