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So where is Enterprise headed? Surmises and spoilers
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Posted by: Big_Daddy

I've been pondering this for some time, pardon if someone else thought of it before me. Below are my thoughts, which may or not be correct (but likely aren't), so don't complain about spoilers if I am.

I was thinking about the treads floating around through the summer about the impact of the Xindi's attack on the timeline. Some people thought it was just bad continuity on B and B's part. One of the more interesting ideas that the event would lead continuity in Enterprise to become the "Dark Federation" from "Mirror, Mirror" and several DS9 episodes. Although an intriguing idea, I don't think so.

I think: the Xindi are the precursor to the Federation. They have several apparent races working together. To date they've supplied no concrete evidence they're the same race - I don't think. So, given the wide variety in form and speech we've seen, I'm assuming that they're several races working together. "Xindi" probably means something like "Federation", I bet.

This fits into the "temporal cold war" as the FutureBadGuys sent the weapon of mass destruction to Earth while also making the Xindi themselves paranoid that Earth was out to destroy them. What better way to prevent the birth of the Federation than alienate the two factions who need to come together to form it?

And where else would Earth and Archer get the idea? Yes, they've flirted with other ideas seen in ST:TOS, like the Prime Directive, but never with the idea of firmly unifying themselves with other races. Particularly as they are ambivalent about Vulcans.

SURE we never saw any of the species of the Xindi before. You'd think that if they were, we'd have seen them in one of the previous 9,000,000 ST episodes. But since when have B and B really worried THAT much about continuity. Besides, it would spoil the surprise.

Anyway, time will tell. Any thoughts?

Posted by: spelcheker

That's a very interesting idea. I hope it turns out you're right. It would almost make it worth putting up with all this temporal war crud. I doubt B & B could have that good a story arc going however, as they seem to be concentrating on passing 'Fear Factor' as the show with the most people taking their shirts off.

Posted by: Family

That is a good idea... even though we've never heard of the expanse and seen these aliens.

Nice premise.

Posted by: MarkofT

Dr. Phlox analyzed the DNA from the dead pilot of the weapon and the DNA from the finger of the miner and found they were very very similar yet not quite the same. He informed Archer and Archer made the comparison between Humans and Neanderthals.

Therefore Xindi are one race with various subraces.

Posted by: Big_Daddy

quote:
Originally posted by MarkofT
Dr. Phlox analyzed the DNA from the dead pilot of the weapon and the DNA from the finger of the miner and found they were very very similar yet not quite the same. He informed Archer and Archer made the comparison between Humans and Neanderthals.

Therefore Xindi are one race with various subraces.

See, I thought I remembered something like that. But I don't think the crew has seen/acquired DNA from the insects, manatees, or other CGI races. I would find it very difficult to believe (although I suppose science has little to do with it) that all those species are offshoots of the same race. It'd be like saying whales and praying mantises are the same race.

Like I said, we'll just have to wait and see.

Posted by: doom1701

I like both ideas (the Mirror, Mirror thought is way too cool), but I don't have any faith in B&B to think past the next naked T'Pol shot. They're playing this by the seat of their pants, and if anything resembling a true story arc comes about, it'll be pure luck.

Posted by: Frylock

Sure, neither is likely, but somehow, if in reality B&B were actually not running the show, and there was some puppet behind them throwing us off with B&B-esque plots, or, even better, someone throws a coup d'état and take over the series?

Posted by: Uther

Enterprise is headed straight down the drain. It's been in the toilet for a few years, just circling, but now it's going down.

The name change was the best thing that has happened to this show, because it made me miss one episode. Now I can delete the season pass (that they changed back to work again, curse them!)

Posted by: rtype

The comparison to humans and Neandrathals I think was more to imply that one race of Xindi was an evolved version of the other race -- which also implies time travel.

Time travel is frankly the only way to clean up the more obvious continuity problems between Enterprise and the other ST series.

"It's been in the toilet for a few years" Isn't a few 3 or more? Hrmm. Maybe Uther's been doing some time travelling too.

Posted by: Big_Daddy

Every time I hear people criticize Enterprise, I flash back to the South Park episode (yes, this is a tangent, bear with me) where the music executives are talking to JLo and say something like, "Thank you, Ms. Lopez, for all your hard work and "talent."" (while making little quote signs with their fingers.)

A similar phrase might apply to B and B:

Mr. Berman, Mr. Braga, while we truly appreciate the hard work you've put into your "plots" and "characterization" on Star Trek, I'm sorry we have to let you go.
(And don't forget to make the quote signs with your fingers at the right places).

Well, even if ST isn't headed in the direction I'm guessing, it's nice to be reassured that I'm more creative than at least one group of executives producing network television.

Posted by: Uther

quote:
Originally posted by rtype
"It's been in the toilet for a few years" Isn't a few 3 or more? Hrmm. Maybe Uther's been doing some time travelling too.

few
Function: adjective
Date: before 12th century
1 : consisting of or amounting to only a small number <one of our few pleasures>
2 : at least some but indeterminately small in number -- used with a <caught a few fish>

Enterprise started going down the drain as soon as they started kicking around the concept for the show.

Posted by: allan

quote:
Originally posted by Uther
few
Function: adjective
Date: before 12th century
1 : consisting of or amounting to only a small number <one of our few pleasures>
2 : at least some but indeterminately small in number -- used with a <caught a few fish>

Enterprise started going down the drain as soon as they started kicking around the concept for the show.

Your post confused me. Did you say Enterprise started going down the drain since the 12th century? :D

Posted by: tonyoci

Remember the HH on what is a couple/few etc. That got quite heated.

T

Posted by: Uther

quote:
Originally posted by allan
Your post confused me. Did you say Enterprise started going down the drain since the 12th century? :D

Exactly! They think they can screw with the timeline? Well, so can I! ;)

Posted by: rtype

Uther
Honestly, I don't get it -- why would you not only watch the show but participate in a forum discussion about the show if you never liked it even from conception? Addicted to the franchise? :)

I guess for me, since my DirecTivo arrived, I have a bottomless cup of TV I actually want to watch. I can't imagine sticking with something I didn't like.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Wrenching it back on topic, Neandertals and humans are cousins; humans are not "more evolved" descendents of Neandertals.

The implication in Enterprise was very clearly that the Xindi are one species with several sub-species. Whether that works logically is another question, but it's obviously their intent.

Posted by: rtype

Good point, MG. Here's a quote I found in google that explains it a bit further for us laypeoples:

"Hi there, my question is this: Do you think it is possible that Neandrathals and Homo Sapiens mated? Is there any evidence to suggest such a thing? Thanks,

Donald Johanson: In my opinion Neanderthals were Homo neanderthalensis and we are Homo sapiens, two different species. I am sure they actually encountered each other, much like Pan gorilla (gorillas) and Pan troglodytes (chimps) do today, but these two species don't make the mistake and try to breed with each other. So, I think when Neanderthals and sapiens met, they did not recognize each other as a potential mate--the recent evidence suggested from Portugual that there was a neanderthal/sapiens hybrid, simply is wrong.. hope this helps."

Posted by: Uther

quote:
Originally posted by rtype
Uther
Honestly, I don't get it -- why would you not only watch the show but participate in a forum discussion about the show if you never liked it even from conception? Addicted to the franchise? :)

Not really. I gave it a couple years for Beavis and Butthead to get it right. They failed miserably. I also gave 2 seasons to Voyager (mistake), and a few years to DS9.

But, as I said, I'm now done with Ster Drek: Enterprise.

Let me know when they bring in Q to hit the big shiny reset button and restore the timeline. :)

Posted by: bobcarn

I do have to admit that I've been enjoying this season's episodes a lot more than the previous two. The only major thing they did that I object to is that they made the Vulcans' psionic abilities something that doesn't exist at that point. Well, the ability to mind-meld exists, but it's shunned. There's simply not enough time between Enterprise and the original series for Vulcan as a whole to embrace their telepathic abilities and incorporate them as strongly into their society as it's shown in all later series.

Besides that, all the other little inconsistencies are just that.... little inconsistencies. They don't mean much to me. If the show is good, I'll continue to watch it. And like I said, I've enjoyed some of the this season's episodes a lot more than I thought I would.

Unfortunately, I can't watch the new episodes until Sunday nights. :( It's on the same time as "Smallville", so I have to let my Tivo grab a later rebroadcast.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by bobcarn
There's simply not enough time between Enterprise and the original series for Vulcan as a whole to embrace their telepathic abilities and incorporate them as strongly into their society as it's shown in all later series.

Without being facetious (well, not entirely), look how short a time it has taken for cell phones to completely change human society...behavior that would have been unthinkable a decade ago is routine today.

Posted by: jones07

quote:
Originally posted by bobcarn
I do have to admit that I've been enjoying this season's episodes a lot more than the previous two. The only major thing they did that I object to is that they made the Vulcans' psionic abilities something that doesn't exist at that point. Well, the ability to mind-meld exists, but it's shunned. There's simply not enough time between Enterprise and the original series for Vulcan as a whole to embrace their telepathic abilities and incorporate them as strongly into their society as it's shown in all later series.

The Vulcans have changed a lot from Enterprise time, to what would be TOS Vulcan society. More then I would think was reasonable. But I'm not a big Time line freak. So I can get over it, and still enjoy Enterprise. See how easy people got over the way the Klingons looked in TOS time and the way they look now :p

Posted by: bobcarn

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Without being facetious (well, not entirely), look how short a time it has taken for cell phones to completely change human society...behavior that would have been unthinkable a decade ago is routine today.

That's an entirely different thing though, and not quite as drastic a change as you think: Man has traditionally liked and embraced new technology. A useful new technology comes out, and it's a very short time before it's use is commonplace. Cell phones may appear to have changed human society, but we're really acting just like we always have... taking advantage of the latest technologies.

With the Vulcans though, this is drastically different. In Enterprise's timeframe, the mindmeld is almost universally shunned. By the time the Original Series came around, the mindmeld was not just a part of Vulcan culture, but also a part of Vulcan culture dating back thousands of years! Remember that Spock and T'Pring were melded when they were children, and this was an old custom. So in the space of a generation, Vulcan not only adopted the mind meld, but started applying it to their children when they prearranged their marriages? And then somehow retroactively incorporated it into their past society?

That's still the biggest and worst inconsistency the writers have made. I guess it's because of that that all other inconsistencies pale by comparison and become almost meaningless. :p

Posted by: bobcarn

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
The Vulcans have changed a lot from Enterprise time, to what would be TOS Vulcan society. More then I would think was reasonable. But I'm not a big Time line freak. So I can get over it, and still enjoy Enterprise. See how easy people got over the way the Klingons looked in TOS time and the way they look now :p

Actually, the differences in the Klingons made for one of the best episodes of Deep Space Nine ever! Remember when Worf was confronted with the "old" Klingons? ROFL!

I just attribute the differences between the Klingons to better makeup artists and a bigger budget. hehehe

Posted by: jones07

quote:
Originally posted by bobcarn
Actually, the differences in the Klingons made for one of the best episodes of Deep Space Nine ever! Remember when Worf was confronted with the "old" Klingons? ROFL!

Yeah I remember looking forward to that episode like it was yesterday LOL :p

It went something like Worf:"ahhh we don't talk about that" :p :p