TiVo Community Forums Archives - TwinBreeze Questions

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TwinBreeze Questions
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Posted by: Rowsdower

Earlier this month, my family took advantage of Circuit City's HDVR2 deal by purchasing four units. For the time being, I'm leaving one unmodified. I plan to upgrade one by replacing the original hard disk drive with a Samsung SP1614N 160GB (effectively 137GB) drive.

For the remaining two, I've decided to use dual SP1614N drives. Of course, this will require a new mounting bracket.

Last night, I e-mailed a question to WeakNees. Michael or Jeff responded promptly.

quote:
What fan models (both the 4cm and 6cm) are included in the "TwinBreeze Complete" kit?

They aren't stock fans - they're special fans that get manufactured for this purpose.

I followed up with some additional queries. The reply arrived this morning.

quote:
Can you tell me the RPM, CFM and/or dBA ratings of your custom fans? Also, I'm wondering how the 4cm fan aids in the cooling. (Is it open on the sides?)

We really don't have that type of info easily available as these are custom.

The small fan keep air circulating between the motherboard and the second drive.

Evidently, the 4cm fan does not have an open frame, and this means that it doesn't blow directly on the second hard disk drive. Therefore, I'm skeptical of its value. I realize that many people have reported lower temperatures, but isn't it possible that the air is merely blowing on or near the heat sensor?

4cm fans are notoriously loud, and I'd rather invest my TNA (tolerable noise allotment) in the 6cm exhaust fan. I don't like the fact that the WeakNees 6cm fan offers slightly worse performance than the stock version (in exchange for slightly reduced noise), and I'm leaning toward buying Thermaltake's well-reviewed TT-6025A fan, which I would run from a 12v connector. I'm willing to put up with the extra noise, because I know that this would significantly improve cooling. Any thoughts?

Also, I'm thinking that a machine-rounded IDE cable would allow for better airflow than the "vented" type that WeakNees offers. Again, any thoughts?

I already own some Torx tools and Y-shaped power splitters, so it seems as though I'll be ordering the "TwinBreeze Basic" kit. (unless the general consensus is that my above assumptions are incorrect)

There is, however, another issue: warranty nullification. I intend to take full responsibility for anything that might go wrong as a result of the upgrade, but I want unrelated malfunctions that might occur in the near future to remain covered. I'm concerned that the new screw holes will prevent this.

I'm looking at the mounting bracket that 9th Tee sells. In addition to using adhesive (which could be removed with the proper solvent), it requires the threading of existing holes -- a modification that doesn't appear to be particularly noticeable. Would this product be a viable alternative?

Thanks in advance! :D

Posted by: weaknees

FYI, the bracket fan is 50x50x10mm (not 4cm), and both fans are 5V fans, which is why they are so quiet. The added fan within the unit, which blows below the hard drives and over the motherboard, does offer significant cooling benefits within the unit.

Posted by: Rowsdower

quote:
[Originally posted by weaknees]

FYI, the bracket fan is 50x50x10mm (not 4cm),

Okay, thanks for the correction. I had read posts indicating that it was 40x40mm.

quote:
and both fans are 5V fans, which is why they are so quiet.

I've encountered the opinion that the bracket fan is not particularly quiet. Of course, in the absence of scientific testing, this is rather subjective.

quote:
The added fan within the unit, which blows below the hard drives and over the motherboard, does offer significant cooling benefits within the unit.

I certainly will take this into consideration. Thanks again! :)

Posted by: rogo

I don't get why people would want more noise for slightly better cooling... Unless your unit is running at a temp that the Tivo itself says is trouble, the temp is not trouble.

Posted by: weaknees

Several thoughts on this subject:

1) The bracket fans can be loud if they are not screwed down properly. If the casing is twisted due to improperly seated screws, the fans can in some cases produce additional noise. Otherwise, so long as the screws are tight, the bracket fan is very quiet. Noise is absolutely subjective, and while the case fan noise can be variable due to the echo produced from the lid, the bracket fan is very quiet. You can connect the fan, put it directly up to your ear, and hear virtually nothing.

2) Yes, the TiVo can absolutely function at high temperatures, but lower temperatures are better for hard drives. We do not require the advanced cooling pak and we give people the opportunity to decide for themselves. Overall though, the cooler the better...and we think the 5-10 degree drop Celsius is not trivial.

3) For what it's worth, the new DSR7000 units that we received have a big blue sticker that says, "ATTENTION: UNIT MUST BE INSTALLED IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA." We haven't been told why these new stickers are being used, but we can guess.

Basically, we think the reason to buy the TwinBreeze is for the engineering that underlies the bracket. A huge benefit is the option for the additional fan. If you are skeptical about the fans, you can always add them down the road. Even without the additional fan, the TwinBreeze, like all factory TiVo brackets, has a cutout underneath the drive for proper ventilation.

Michael

Posted by: Gadguy

Heat can be a slow killer, TiVo may not list it as a trouble temp, but the lifespan of the electronics and the drive will be longer if allowed to run a few degrees cooler all other things being equil. For me the 2nd fan is quiet, and I can not detect the difference in sound level on my unit with the case on if the 2nd fan is on or off. The 2nd fan does allow airflow over a part of the mainboard that generates a good deal of the heat (over the chips that have the heat sinks).
I don't think the round cables will be of much advantage, as the cable run in my TiVo was pretty short, and very much in line with the bracket. As such it was not much in the path of the airflow.
YMMV,
GadGuy

Posted by: Rowsdower

quote:
[Originally posted by rogo]

I don't get why people would want more noise for slightly better cooling...

Around 1 ½ years ago, I added second hard disk drives to three of my four Series 1 DirecTiVos. I also replaced the stock fans with more powerful Sunon fans. My result sort of flips around your above comment; I attained far better cooling (roughly 15°C cooler with two drives than I originally measured with one), with only a minor increase in noise.

quote:
Unless your unit is running at a temp that the Tivo itself says is trouble, the temp is not trouble.

1. It isn't unreasonable to consider the possibility that the addition of a second hard disk drive (especially to a model that wasn't originally designed to accommodate it) could push a previously acceptable temperature over the edge. This is worth preventing.

2. It's logical to assume that a lower (even lower than necessary) operating temperature might prolong the functionality of many internal components.

Posted by: Rowsdower

Thanks for conveying your personal experience, Gadguy! I believe that I now understand the benefit of the bracket fan.

I always like to read reviews and compare models (as I did with 6cm fans), so I think that I might consider some other 5cm fans. (which I could add to the "TwinBreeze Basic" kit)

I seek neither the quietest nor the best cooler. To me, it's the noise:cooling ratio that's key. (hopefully with both measurements falling somewhere in the middle)