TiVo Community Forums Archives - Enterprise

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

Enterprise - "Twilight" (SPOILERS)
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: DLiquid

Wow, this episode kicked ass! :up:

Yes, it was a Memento ripoff, it ended with them pressing the RESET button and then Archer telling a bad joke, but I thought it was really good. I even like their future hairdos! ;) Being that Enterprise is now in HD, that is obviously affecting my enjoyment of the show, because the effects are just incredible in HD, but I really felt this episode brought me a bit closer to Archer, T'Pol, Trip, and Phlox.

I'm really digging the whole story arc this season. Even with a few so-so episodes, I think Enterprise is finally getting it right. Now if Hoshi could just let her hair down every week, we'd be set.

Posted by: JYoung

Twilight
Well the teaser blew me away but the rest of the episode........

My Notes:

Woah! Good teaser.
T'Pol cried out in pain?
Didn't I see this in TNG Future Imperfect?
Starfleet would put T'Pol in command?
Mayweather's dead? I guess that's one way to get rid of him for the rest of the episode.
Boarded again?
Just stand there like a target.
Collision Course, nice.
Now Tucker hates T'Pol.....
If their Warp drive was crippled, how could they get back to Earth in time to see it destroyed?
Ceti Alpha 5?
T'Pol decided to be Archer's caregiver. Why wouldn't she take him to Vulcan or Denobula for treatment?
Reed has goatee, it's the mirror universe!
Flame Gems.
Everybody dies.
Archer took how many shots?

Ok, once again the special effects were superb but unfortunately this episode feels forced.
It borrows liberally from Memento, TNG Future Imperfect, DS9's The Vistor, and Voyager's Timeless.
Mike Sussman writes better than Berman and Braga but it still feels a little flat.
Or as a friend of mine puts it, "almost good".
(and I hope they don't pay Mayweather by the line)
It is improvement but man, it's sloooow improvement...

Grade C+

Posted by: Mars Rocket

I liked it, and thought it was pretty clever compared to some of the recent episodes. I'm happy because I couldn't figure out how they were going to resolve it within the first few minutes.

It wasn't as stunning as ST:TNG's The Inner Light, but it was still interesting.

Next week looks truly awful, however.

Posted by: redrouteone

I am not surprised that T'Pol stayed with Archer and did not go back to Vulcan. In fact I think we will eventually see T'Pol completely leave her Vulcan ways and become "Human".

Posted by: DLL66

This series is getting better. It is not as bad as most people that like to tear it apart, (mostly the people who think they are living it!!! lol)

Posted by: nuke

P R E D I C T A B L E.

Man, how could you not absolute guess that something was gonna "reset the timeline" at the end. As soon as they jumped off into "future tense" the story line HAD to resolve with some kind of BS time jump rewind.

D-.

It least it wasn't a Holodeck/Transporter(tm) cliche storyline.

I just wish they'd hire a writer. Lacking that, go back to ST's original tac of hacking "today's issues" into the story. At least they'd have something to write about. Although I guess in today's PC world, someone would get offended.

Posted by: kiljoy

I thought it was TERRIBLE!

Can't elaborate now.

Tony

Posted by: Big_Daddy

All of the criticisms posted above are accurate. That does not change the fact that IMHO this is the best episode of Enterprise to date.

Sure, the story's been done before. But this story served a purpose greater than itself by 1) making the story arc of the Xindi important (the shot of Earth exploding had more of an impact than the laser beam through Florida), and 2) nicely developing T'pol's character. Jolene Blalock did a better-than-usual acting job on this episode, methinks.

Sure Scott Bakula still can't act. When you compare it with Memento, he just doesn't capture the frustration that someone with his memory impairment would likely feel.

And it was predictable. Everyone knew they'd have to reset the timeline, and as soon as they said the parasites were "outside the space-time continuum" I knew that once they were gone, it would revert.

But for one brief moment I almost cared about the characters - at least Archer and T'pol. And that was more than almost any other episode to date has done.

And I did like the teaser for next week's ST:TOS-style "humans from a past time period living on a strange planet" story.

Posted by: jones07

*Have B&B saved their jobs with the improvement of season 3 ?
Have anyone seen any Nelson ratings for this season ?

* Some was saying this was a make-em or break-em season for them.

Posted by: allan

I don't like stories that nobody remembers because the timeline reset. Unfortunately, I still remember. However it was better than usual (which says something about the usual).

Posted by: Fustanella

Not bad. Better than the last few in my opinion.

The interrogation scene seemed forced and it was clear a reset was forthcoming early on, but it was a fun ride nonetheless. And there was much T'Pol-ly goodness. Yeah.

Standing down from Condition Pan Chun for now. :D

Posted by: Big_Daddy

quote:
Originally posted by Fustanella

Standing down from Condition Pan Chun for now. :D

Is that anything like Operation Wang Chung?

Posted by: drewmotz

Anybody else notice the body floating in space with the rest of the bridge debry? I slow-mo'd the scene on my DirecTivo where the bridge is blown off the top of the rest of the ship, (which gives you a pretty good idea of the ship's scale by the way, because you can see the inside half of the bridge in the same picture with most of the outside of the ship). Look carefully for the body towards the left center of the screen. It is most noticable when one of the white Zindi ships flys by just behind, so you get a pretty good profile of a body. (Wonder who it was? Maybe one you folks with HD can get a better look?):rolleyes:

Posted by: bigray327

Great episode, the best so far. Not being a nitpicker, I loved it. :up: x 2.

And T'Pol has cute ears.

Posted by: drewmotz

Back to opinion regarding this episode,....

I liked it very much, one of the best! I've always liked "time paradox" type shows. Gave us a chance to see special effects of the Earth getting blown away, and the bridge getting blow off, but still, brings up some piculiar questions...

Why do the Zindi seemingly allow Archer and the rest to live, and then spy on Dr. Phlox's progress toward solving the problem of killing the interspacial parasites, (or creating a sub-space implosion), and then go on to try and capture Archer when he does? How do the Zindi seemingly know that the interspacial parasites are the key to the timeline? How do they even know about the parasites, period?

Maybe there is more to this episode than the simple "time-line reset" we are left with..... Are the writers getting this clever?

One big special effects dissapointment though. At the end, the sub-space implosion looked pretty much like any other "ship self-destruct" type explosion we've seen time and again. In fact, I've yet to see a really convincingly good matter-antimatter explosion on any Star Trek episode, much less, one that creates a sub-space implosion. Shouldn't it go up like a small supernova or something at least? (Maybe the sub-space implosion happens in sub-space, and therefore not visible in space-normal. (Yeah right)).:rolleyes: This storyline allowed for the perfect opportunity to show one heck of a kick-but absolute galaxywide, (or why not think big and go universe-wide and maybe show something like that Hubble telescope picture that has like 1000 galaxies in it), exlosive rip though space itself! And then just..... "time-reset".

Posted by: DLiquid

quote:
Originally posted by drewmotz
Why do the Zindi seemingly allow Archer and the rest to live, and then spy on Dr. Phlox's progress toward solving the problem of killing the interspacial parasites, (or creating a sub-space implosion), and then go on to try and capture Archer when he does? How do the Zindi seemingly know that the interspacial parasites are the key to the timeline? How do they even know about the parasites, period?

I assumed the Xindi didn't know where Archer and the other humans were, but they kept surveillance on Phlox because of his previous connection with Starfleet with the hope that he might eventually lead them to more humans. I didn't get the impression the Xindi knew anything about Archer's parasites.

Posted by: crazywater

quote:
Originally posted by Mars Rocket
I liked it, and thought it was pretty clever compared to some of the recent episodes. I'm happy because I couldn't figure out how they were going to resolve it within the first few minutes.

It wasn't as stunning as ST:TNG's The Inner Light, but it was still interesting.

Next week looks truly awful, however.

I have found that previews that suggest an episode to be a boring storyline often end up being the best ones, "The Shipment" for example...

I thought this was the best ENT episode of the series and to me its looks as if the characters have finally found themselves and have hit their stride...

I am very happy they returned to the Archer/T'Pol relationship, I thought they did a good job building it last year and was disappointed that they seemed to have dropped it until now. I think Bakula and Blalock have excellent chemistry together and they should continue to build on not only the attraction they have for each other but their professional relationship, specifically their loyalty to each other. That gets me all the time!

It's getting better all the time, as The Beatles once said...

Posted by: JYoung

Of course,
no one mentioned the fact that the Enterprise again allowed a Xindi vessel to dock with it and be boarded again, while their engines were still working!
It does tend to strain my suspension of disbelief......

Posted by: crazywater

quote:
Originally posted by nuke
P R E D I C T A B L E.

Man, how could you not absolute guess that something was gonna "reset the timeline" at the end. As soon as they jumped off into "future tense" the story line HAD to resolve with some kind of BS time jump rewind.

D-.

It least it wasn't a Holodeck/Transporter(tm) cliche storyline.

I just wish they'd hire a writer. Lacking that, go back to ST's original tac of hacking "today's issues" into the story. At least they'd have something to write about. Although I guess in today's PC world, someone would get offended.

Duh, really! It sure fooled me, I thought it was gonna stay that way for the rest of the season. I was sure relieved when they figured a way out of it...COME ON!!!! All of these timeline episodes are predictable going all the way back to "City On The Edge Of Forever" its just a question of how the reset button is pushed and if the explanation is reasonable. And in this case it was...

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

For about half the episode I was cringing (and I like this show!), thinking, "There's no way they can pull that off." Then, the way they did actually worked! Clever--my jaw dropped. And having Captain Stone figure out the logical consequence of the parasites and their nature was icing on the cake (this is the first time "The operation was a success but the patient died" isn't a joke).

Now, I'm looking at the trailer for next week ("Enterprise in the Old West!") and thinking, "There's no way they can pull that off."

Two weeks in a row?

Naw.... :D

Posted by: super dave

quote:
Originally posted by redrouteone
I am not surprised that T'Pol stayed with Archer and did not go back to Vulcan. In fact I think we will eventually see T'Pol completely leave her Vulcan ways and become "Human".

And in turn be related to Spock. Since we have already met his parents I can't see them forgetting the timeline again and having her actually birth Spock, but who knows with these geniuses.
Next week looks like a total remake of TOS and the gunfight at the OK Corral. Doesn't look good, but I'll be watching anyway.:(

Posted by: timckelley

Well, on TOS, it was an alien punishing the crew by inserting them into a situation manufactured from Kirk's knowledge of earth history. It'll be interesting to see what plot Enterprise will use. No doubt it will be different.

Posted by: jimborst

quote:
Next week looks like a total remake of TOS and the gunfight at the OK Corral. Doesn't look good, but I'll be watching anyway

Don't forget TNG with the holodeck malfunction, with Worf and Data in the west.

Posted by: TonyD79

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Grade C+

I feel so sorry for you. You cannot just sit and enjoy good sci-fi. You have to nitpick it to death.

This was by far the best Enterprise episode to date. So the story has been told before in some variation. Find me a story that hasn't been. You can't. They don't exist.

However, the way they got rid of the parasites was somewhat clever and they get large marks for this not being an imaginary story or a hallucination or a dream but reality. Just a reality that was wiped out. It was still real and it told a large story about what WOULD happen if the Enterprise and her crew misstep in their mission.

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Reed has goatee, it's the mirror universe!

Where's O'Hura ;)

quote:
Originally posted by crazywater
...going all the way back to "City On The Edge Of Forever"

My favorite TOS episode :)

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
I feel so sorry for you. You cannot just sit and enjoy good sci-fi. You have to nitpick it to death.

No doubt :rolleyes:

Come on folks, it seems to be improving so give it a chance :up:

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
I feel so sorry for you. You cannot just sit and enjoy good sci-fi. You have to nitpick it to death.

Yes, I can. The problem is, Enterprise isn't good Sci Fi. Give me that or at least compelling drama and I don't nitpick.

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79

This was by far the best Enterprise episode to date. So the story has been told before in some variation. Find me a story that hasn't been. You can't. They don't exist.

However, the way they got rid of the parasites was somewhat clever and they get large marks for this not being an imaginary story or a hallucination or a dream but reality. Just a reality that was wiped out. It was still real and it told a large story about what WOULD happen if the Enterprise and her crew misstep in their mission.

The best Enterprise to date? Well, that's not saying much but I still think that honor belongs to Cogenitor.

And if they had put a new spin or element on this story, it would have helped.

For example, if they had done a two part episode and put Major Hayes in command instead of T'Pol, you would have had a real source of conflict.
Plus they could have shown why having Archer in command would prevent Earth's destruction and where Hayes screwed up.

BTW, the human race was doomed anyways as they had settled on Ceti Alpha 5......

Posted by: yzzzguy

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
BTW, the human race was doomed anyways as they had settled on Ceti Alpha 5......

Not necessarily true as this was a totally different timeline from the (let's call it) "good one" so who knows if Ceti Alpha 6 would have crashed into Ceti Alpha 5?

Guy

Posted by: yzzzguy

I have to say I had mixed emotions about this episode. On retrospect (and after viewing some of the responses here) - I would say this was much more fullfilling than say "The Exile". Hats off to Robert Duncan MacNeil for his directing job! I was preparing to be upset as the hour was ticking down and it seemed like this ep was going to be at least a two-parter. Thank gawd, it wasn't... However the resolution was too neat (and very well foreshadowed by Dr. Phlox's previous off-the-cuff remark on how to cure Archer).

It was wonderful to see the relationship between T'Pol and Archer. But geez...with all due respect to Anthony Montgomery - they may as well permanently kill off Travis Mayweather for as little screen time as he's seen overall in the series. I realize it is difficult to give a lot of screen time per episode to each member of an ensemble cast but c'mon... He may as well have been wearing a red shirt!

And spatial anomalies I can handle but I have difficulty with the manner in which the parasites were deposited into Archer's brain. I can't fully explain why...I just do.

And Tucker should have shut the hell up when he criticised T'Pol for maneuvering the Enterprise to crash the 2 Xindi ships together. That was conduct unbecoming an officer and could have been viewed as insubordination. Granted - he's entitled to his opinion and could have expressed his objection to her decision in a private meeting but it was a critical decision point wherein hull plating was down (or did they mention "shields" for the first time here?), weapons were down and Enterprise had been boarded. Tucker wasn't in command and should have abided by the decision T'Pol made in the heat of battle.

But I'm still watching! :)

Guy

Posted by: Fustanella

quote:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy
Is that anything like Operation Wang Chung?

Depends. Did everybody have fun tonight? :D

Posted by: Fustanella

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Sorel
Where's O'Hura ;)

Sure an' she was Irish. Black Irish at that. :eek:

Posted by: timckelley

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Sorel
Where's O'Hura ;)

Should be spelled Uhura, which if I remember correctly, is Swahili for "peace"

Posted by: rtype

I liked the episode but my major complaint was that they didn't stay on that timeline (or rather, stay on it for a few episodes longer). I'm really bored with the whole Xindi thing and I'm beginning to think they screwed themselves with that idea. I'd love to see episodes with real lasting consequences that didn't revolve around the "mission."

And I liked the older T'Pol. Maybe I'm outgrowing my fascination with young girls? I guess Tru Calling disproves that., though.

Posted by: Tivohud

Could next week's episode be as bad as "Fistful of Datas"...I hope not!!

Posted by: SnakeEyes

quote:
Originally posted by Tivohud
Could next week's episode be as bad as "Fistful of Datas"...I hope not!!

I liked that episode :(

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by Fustanella
Sure an' she was Irish. Black Irish at that. :eek:

Oops, my bad :o

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
The best Enterprise to date? Well, that's not saying much but I still think that honor belongs to Cogenitor.

I was thinking about this today...for me, I would say Twilight (because of the imagination involved) is right up there next to Cogenitor. Surely the best two episodes to date, IMO.

Posted by: ADent

It was OK, story was good but it was predictable and I have seen this before (even in ST universe on Voyager).

I knew they were going to hit the reset button as soon as Earth was toast. Then as soon as they denied the next treatment I knew the ending.

B&B did get to blow up yet another Enterprise, but I think they wrote the whole thing so they could blow up Earth.

Overall a thumbs up.

PS Liked the Ceti Alpha 5 reference.

Posted by: vman41

I had a little bit of trouble with the idea that the destroyed parasite would be gone from the medical records but not from their memories. The parasite was gone before they destroyed it, so why were they shooting at it?

Posted by: DLL66

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
I feel so sorry for you. You cannot just sit and enjoy good sci-fi. You have to nitpick it to death.

_______________________________________________________

I'm with agreement with you here!!!! Like I said here before, there are people that want to live in the series!!:D

Posted by: nuke

Might as well have done, "Who Shot JR?" and had the Captain wake up in the sonic shower..."it was all a dream..."

Posted by: jones07

Two thumbs up.

So far there only one episode this season that I did not care for.

BUT Next weeks episode got me worried. ;)

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
*Have B&B saved their jobs with the improvement of season 3 ?
Have anyone seen any Nelson ratings for this season ?

* Some was saying this was a make-em or break-em season for them.

Watch for yourself:

http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~mvrojo/entratings.htm

They're still dropping.

Posted by: deronj

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Plus they could have shown why having Archer in command would prevent Earth's destruction

I'm hoping they will show us the same scene in a later episode, so we can see what Archer does differently.

Posted by: cptodd

I liked the episode as well but what nags me is that I also love the technology. What I find myself missing is the technology. I do think that the storyline is paramount but I miss my fazors (did I spell that right?) and transporter technology and warp 9.99 and on an on. It was the integration of technology and utopic vision of the future (even though my own vision of the future is quite dystopic).

Posted by: kiljoy

quote:
Originally posted by cptodd
I liked the episode as well but what nags me is that I also love the technology. What I find myself missing is the technology. I do think that the storyline is paramount but I miss my fazors (did I spell that right?) and transporter technology and warp 9.99 and on an on. It was the integration of technology and utopic vision of the future (even though my own vision of the future is quite dystopic).

Nope, it's spelled, "phasers." The warp curve was redrawn post-TOS to reflect Warp 10 as occupying all points in the universe simultaneously. In TOS, the original Enterprise achieved Warp 14. This works out to somewhere around 8.something on the new scale.

If you really enjoy it, I suggest you buy the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual. It not only details in depth all of the technobabble as though it were a true Tech Manual, but in little asides, it tells stories how some things actually occurred in the production of TNG. A very good companion to the ST universe. It will make you notice everything that Enterprise does wrong.

For example, in Twilight, the port nacelle of Enterprise was damaged. Tucker says that all they've got left is Warp 1.7. Not true. If a nacelle is damaged to the extent that that one was, you get no stable warp field. Another example is in the thread about the Zombie Vulcans and the effectiveness of the phaser rifles. Another example is last week's ep where the transporter was used from the dark side of the moon.

I too enjoy the technobabble of ST. I suggest you set a season pass of TNG or Voyager though if that's what floats your boat. I always got a kick out of the holodoctor. FWIW, on TNG technobabble was of the highest regards, and given extreme scrutiny in terms of continuity. It is obvious that this approach is not taken on Enterprise.

Tony

Posted by: cptodd

Actually Voyager was my favorite ST series while the original ST was my least fave for some reason._ (Please I don't want to hear any comments either.)_ I guess I like the way they integrated technology into a positive narrative of the future (though I don't have faith that technology is made to work as such)._ They kind of imply that technology will be able to free us from some of the more oppressive factors of life._ It will free us up to explore and create positive things for a mass of people._ That is not to say that there are not bad things that will happen in the future (that is why we need phasers) but on the whole technology in the ST narrative is a positive force.

Posted by: BizarroTerl

I liked it (of course I like them all). The picture sucked. DirecTV 's PQ is so bad I'm thinking of putting up some rabbit ears. :mad:

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by nuke
Might as well have done, "Who Shot JR?" and had the Captain wake up in the sonic shower..."it was all a dream..."

Or Dorothy, saying, "And you were there, and you, and you..."

Somehow I don't think The Matrix was the first to introduce the concept of confusing dreams with reality (whatever that may be ;) ).

Posted by: RGM1138

quote:
Originally posted by drewmotz
Back to opinion regarding this episode,....

One big special effects dissapointment though. At the end, the sub-space implosion looked pretty much like any other "ship self-destruct" type explosion we've seen time and again. In fact, I've yet to see a really convincingly good matter-antimatter explosion on any Star Trek episode, much less, one that creates a sub-space implosion.

That's as compared to viewing a matter-antimatter explosion in real life? :)

Bob

Posted by: lordrichter

quote:

Might as well have done, "Who Shot JR?" and had the Captain wake up in the sonic shower..."it was all a dream..."

I thought that it was a dream.

Seems to me that Archer got knocked in the head, had a concussion related dream, then woke up in sickbay.

I got the impression he vaguely remembered part of what happened, particularly the part about T'Pol taking care of him. :)

It also answers the inconsistencies about how they got back to Earth with no warp drive, how they remembered stuff that didn't happen after the initial treatment, and why T'Pol hung around for years taking care of him.

Posted by: betamax

I definately liked this episode. It was a neat story line, but during most of the show, I was crossing my fingers, saying "Please don't go back in time to fix this!" I liked the way they solved the problem.

I'd rather see T'Pol and Tripp than T'Pol and Archer.

Also, I was kind of disappointed that a subspace implosion looked like every other explosion on a ship.

Posted by: ntrprize

I cant believe no one mentioned the battle scene. The way Enterprise was dancing around was pretty cool.

Excellent episode. I did notice that Archer got shot twice and was still conscious. Pretty good for taking a hit from a weapon that just threw 3 crewmen back 10 feet.

Posted by: bicker

quote:
Might as well have done, "Who Shot JR?" and had the Captain wake up in the sonic shower..."it was all a dream..."

My thinking as well. Bleh.

Posted by: jones07

Run the range from "Excellent episode" to "Bleh". Just goes to show ya :p

Posted by: dcheesi

quote:
Originally posted by vman41
I had a little bit of trouble with the idea that the destroyed parasite would be gone from the medical records but not from their memories. The parasite was gone before they destroyed it, so why were they shooting at it?

Yep, they ruined an otherwise clever and intrguing plot device by committing the old Timeline-Memory-Fallacy(TM). It would have been better if Phlox or someone had come up with the parasite-as-reset-button theory on their own, before the treatment was used.

Posted by: timckelley

Maybe when history was changed, their minds and memories were somehow immune to the reset. We 21st century humans really don't understand temporal science, so who are we to criticize the plot?

Posted by: allan

Time travel has made my head hurt since 2007!

Posted by: BenderSD1

Hmm...let's see...

- Captain has medical condition that causes memory loss
- Captain has close relationship with another crew member in the future (who is also a caregiver)
- Crew member dies in the future
- The Enterprise is destroyed in the process of restoring the past
- Fixing something in the future causes everthing in the past to be fixed, including the destruction of Earth

I liked it better the first time I saw it, when it was called "All Good Things..."

Posted by: nuke

There's really a lot better stories they could draw from. The Ender's Game novels were pretty good and thought provoking, at least the first couple were anyway.

Pretty much all we get on TV is "Cowboys and Indians" with rayguns and that's what they call "science fiction."

It would be so *cool* if they actually hired someone who could *write* something thought-provoking for a change. I find sci-fi at its best when the story develops conflicts between the march of technology and how it impacts the human character in a relatable, palpable way and make me say, "wow, I never thought about that."

Like I mentioned, Ender's Game (the book) did that. It was thought provoking in a lot of ways.

Posted by: DLiquid

Nuke, I agree with you in that I wish there was TV sci-fi that was more thought provoking, and I also like some of Orson Scott Card's sci-fi books, but Trek has been "'Cowboys and Indians' with rayguns" for over 30 years, you can't really expect them to change that now. The kind of sci-fi you're asking for won't get the Nielsen ratings it would need to stay on the air, not even on television networks supposedly devoted to science fiction. :(

Posted by: Cletus

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Sorel
Or Dorothy, saying, "And you were there, and you, and you..."

Somehow I don't think The Matrix was the first to introduce the concept of confusing dreams with reality (whatever that may be ;) ).

Nope, it was Stanislaw Lem. Looong time before Matrix... :0

Posted by: spartanstew

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
I feel so sorry for you. You cannot just sit and enjoy good sci-fi. You have to nitpick it to death.

This was by far the best Enterprise episode to date. So the story has been told before in some variation. Find me a story that hasn't been. You can't. They don't exist.

However, the way they got rid of the parasites was somewhat clever and they get large marks for this not being an imaginary story or a hallucination or a dream but reality. Just a reality that was wiped out. It was still real and it told a large story about what WOULD happen if the Enterprise and her crew misstep in their mission.

Agreed. Grade: A

Stew

Posted by: DLL66

quote:
Originally posted by spartanstew
Agreed. Grade: A

Stew

Glad to see that there are other people who aren't trying to live the series and try to connect everything to the other series as well. I'm also glad that there are others, like myself, just watch the show for what it is...........a show!:D

Posted by: Peter000

quote:
Originally posted by DLL66
Glad to see that there are other people who aren't trying to live the series and try to connect everything to the other series as well. I'm also glad that there are others, like myself, just watch the show for what it is...........a show!:D

Well, while I enjoy the series, I love connecting it to the other series... that's part of the fun of a "prequel" series... it's historical; in connects up the past to the present, and in this case, the future. :)

I do think they're on a roll this season. The "death star" in this ep looked way cool, and provided enough of a menace that, yeah, we SHOULD be worried about the human race. It is interesting that there are no mention of the Xindi in any of the other series, though. At least none that I heard, though I hardly watched DS9 or Voyager.

I didn't like Archer in the beginning, but he's really grown on me.. despite criticism to the opposite, I don't think Bakula's a wooden actor... I think he's acting wooden... the part of a stiff, mostly no nonsense, captain. He was the opposite in Quantum Leap, very emotional and heartfelt, so we know he can act.

Definitely better than alot of my other season passes.

Posted by: timckelley

Yes indeed... this is my favorite season pass out of over 20, and it occupies the #1 priority spot on my season pass menu. This last episode rates grade A with me, despite what some nitpickers say.

Posted by: bicker

This one actually is pretty low on my Season Pass list -- I reserve the top slots for stuff broadcast only once per week. Enterprise is broadcast twice.

Posted by: Skittles

Wow. Come into this a week late, and I'm surprised to see so many negative comments, considering how interesting of an episode it was. Unique? No. Cerebral? No. Enjoyable? Absolutely.

Notice how little Mayweather was in it? Perhaps that says something.

Either way, this is my favorite episode of the season. Although I cringed at the scenes for next week's episode, I did the same thing when I saw the promo for A Fistful of Datas, which is now one of my top 10 Next Gen episodes.

Posted by: SachinM

I'm getting pretty tired of the Xindi storyline. Even if they find the Xindi council and the weapon of mass destruction, it won't be enough to simply destroy it - presumably the Xindi would try and try again, and TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY pretty much confirm that the Xindi (and the Suliban) are trivial enemies.

There is already a timeline in place - why are they messing around with it? Temporal Cold War? Where did that come from? How about telling stories that progressively build on Earth becoming the headquarters of the future Federation of Planets? Isn't anyone curious as to how humans, who are coming into the space community pretty late in the game, become the lead species in a union of planets? Have it parallel US history - maybe have a season dedicated to an interplanetary war that Earth stays out of, until the very end when we come in and rescue the day, thus earning the respect of the "allied" planets.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Well, the problem is, the humans aren't going to achieve any great status during the life of this show, or probably during the life of its characters. The nifty thing about the Temporal Cold War thing (and the new Xindi aspect of it) is that it allows great things to happen without being a slave to continuity. Otherwise, we would know that nothing too Earth-shaking (OK, bad choice of words) could happen, because otehrwise, we would have heard about it.

Now, I'm not saying they're doing a good job of it (although whereas most people seem to think they're going too far, I think they're not going far enough, since they have carte blanche to do anything they damn well please), but the basic concept is very cool.

Posted by: HTH

quote:
Originally posted by cptodd
Actually Voyager was my favorite ST series while the original ST was my least fave for some reason._ (Please I don't want to hear any comments either.)_ I guess I like the way they integrated technology into a positive narrative of the future (though I don't have faith that technology is made to work as such)._ They kind of imply that technology will be able to free us from some of the more oppressive factors of life._ It will free us up to explore and create positive things for a mass of people._ That is not to say that there are not bad things that will happen in the future (that is why we need phasers) but on the whole technology in the ST narrative is a positive force.

"Warp particles!"

Posted by: bobcarn

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
For about half the episode I was cringing (and I like this show!), thinking, "There's no way they can pull that off." Then, the way they did actually worked! Clever--my jaw dropped. And having Captain Stone figure out the logical consequence of the parasites and their nature was icing on the cake (this is the first time "The operation was a success but the patient died" isn't a joke).

Now, I'm looking at the trailer for next week ("Enterprise in the Old West!") and thinking, "There's no way they can pull that off."

Two weeks in a row?

Naw.... :D

I hate that Smallville is on the same time as Enterprise. I wind up having to see the episodes much much later than everyone else, and everything's already been said! Anyhoo....

Yeah. I agree. It was very nicely done. Sure you know that the timeline is going to be corrected, but you just don't know how. The parasites, existing through all periods of time, was wonderfully subtle.

Another thing I liked about the episode was that it truly was interesting to be confronted with the scenario of having only short-term memory. The implications are fascinating! Seeing T'Pol explain the current situation to him every day was so logical..... anybody in that situation would have to have that done daily. Also the realization that something you either just suggested or are about to suggest is something you most likely already suggested.

All in all, I think this season the series is starting to get it's space feet and starting to shine.

Oh, as for next week, they said it's a parallel world. It's been done before on TOS (the gangster episode), so I don't see where there's a timeline to worry about. It'll just be interesting and fun to watch them in an old-west setting. I've always wondered why they've totally stopped using projectile weapons in the Star Trek future (other than the fact that it looks flashier for us viewers). "The Borg are here! Break out the M-16's!!! Let's see them adapt now!"

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

There was a science fiction writer (Randall Garrett?) who came down with that short-term memory affliction. I remember reading about it and shuddering. At some point, for some reason he had to move, and from then on, every morning it was like waking up in a strange house. He had signs all over the place directing him to various rooms, explaining things...what a terrible way to have to live.

I also felt very sorry for his wife (who had also been his collaborator), who had to deal with his daily reboot. I wonder if the Archer/T'Pol story wasn't based on them..?

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by Cletus
Nope, it was Stanislaw Lem. Looong time before Matrix... :0

Here you go...

quote:
"Once I, Chuang Tzu, dreamed I was a butterfly and was happy as a butterfly. I was conscious that I was quite pleased with myself, but I did not know that I was Tzu. Suddenly I awoke, and there was I, visibly Tzu. I do not know whether it was Tzu dreaming that he was a butterfly or the butterfly dreaming that he was Tzu.

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/chuang.html

;)

Posted by: Peter000

quote:
Originally posted by bobcarn

Another thing I liked about the episode was that it truly was interesting to be confronted with the scenario of having only short-term memory. The implications are fascinating! Seeing T'Pol explain the current situation to him every day was so logical..... anybody in that situation would have to have that done daily. Also the realization that something you either just suggested or are about to suggest is something you most likely already suggested.

I know this is a horrible affliction to have to live with, but what if the caretaker has to leave for a day? A note left on the fridge?

"Dear... you have no short term memory. It is now 13 years later. Anything you might be thinking now you've thought of already over 4,000 times. Just watch TV. The reruns will still seem fresh! Love, me."

Posted by: HTH

Did anyone else think Archer appeared to have an unusually long short-term memory? I thought those with this affliction tend to have a memory retention typically under 5 minutes.

Someone have a medical dictionary?

Posted by: DLiquid

quote:
Originally posted by HTH
Did anyone else think Archer appeared to have an unusually long short-term memory? I thought those with this affliction tend to have a memory retention typically under 5 minutes.

Someone have a medical dictionary?

A wasn't aware that the fictional affliction caused by the fictional parasites Archer was infected with was documented in any medical dictionary. ;)

Posted by: HTH

Anterograde amnesia is not fictional. Only the cause depicted is. In reality, lesions on the hippocampus or hippocampus removal are causes. For the fictional parasites to have the effect and have him still able to retain enough memory to follow the long story of his condition, they'd also have to be augmenting his short-term memory.

Another Trek-related revelation: aphasia is also real, and depicted in a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode, but I've never heard of such an affliction that affected one's communication so completely.

Trek is dipping often into medical dictionaries for story ideas.

Posted by: Mike20878

quote:
Originally posted by HTH
Oh boy

Whoa... didn't notice this link in your sig until now. Do you know anything else about this project?

Mike

Posted by: HTH

Nope. Just stumbled onto the IMDb entry one day and threw it into the signature. I wondered when someone would notice.

Posted by: edc

quote:
Originally posted by Mike20878
Whoa... didn't notice this link in your sig until now. Do you know anything else about this project?

http://www.projectquantumleap.com/pratt.htm

DVD news, and some "hints" about the new QL project.

Posted by: Mike20878

quote:
Originally posted by HTH
Nope. Just stumbled onto the IMDb entry one day and threw it into the signature. I wondered when someone would notice.

How long's it been there? :)

Posted by: HTH

I'm not certain. I'd guess about a month or so. It became doublespaced from the quote more recently.

Posted by: martinp13

Sorry to drag this topic back up to the top, but I am FINALLY watching my frustration-induced backlog of Enterprise episodes from April 2003 to the present. :) I had finished The Shipment and was about to head to bed, when I saw the preview for Twilight. I had to watch it. :)

And I'm glad I did. I agree with the folks who think it's the best Enterprise up to that date. :) I thought it was a bit disjointed (when did the opening sequence happen??), but I enjoyed the story. I still thought it was a dream/holo-sequence until near the end. Yes, I knew early on there would have to be some sort of "reset" at the end, but I challenge anyone to say they KNEW how it would work. (To be honest, I thought the Xindi would just kill Archer and his death [and the resulting death of the parasites] would reset everything).

When we saw the weapon deployed and it obliterated that planet, are we SURE that was Earth? It could have just been some other Minbari-class planet (I know that's not the word, but I can remember "Minbari" and it starts with an M!). EDIT: I guess it would have to be Earth since there wasn't anyone else the Xindi were gunning for. Nevermind. :)

Overall, I really liked it... :) Only 9 or so more episodes until I'm "caught up"!

Posted by: DougF

I just got to watch it a few weeks ago myself. I'm behind like you, just not quite as far.

Anyway, I'd have to say that "Twilight" belongs in the top 20 or even top 10 of all Trek episodes for me. There was real tension and emotion there for me. Something that hasn't really been there for "Enterprise". I think the acting was superb, especially Connor Trinneer.

Wait 'til you get to "Similitude". That takes a spot in the top five.

Posted by: martinp13

People keep saying that's a great episode. I have read and re-read the description and I just can't see that it would be any good. Or maybe I'm just imagining how bad they could butcher a storyline like that. ;)

Maybe this weekend!

Posted by: DougF

Well, if you have ever been a fan of the emotional Trek eps (DS9's "The Visitor" and TNG's "The Inner Light" are two superb examples), you will probably like "Similitude". I hope you enjoy it.

Besides being my all time favorite Trek episode, I consider "The Visitor" to be the best hour of TV I have ever seen, period. "Similitude" is close behind.