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Angel 11-12. Anyone?
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Posted by: mcdougll

No thread on Angel yet? Hmmm. OK, I'll start.

As far as the Wesley/Fred thing goes, I thought it was a good show. As far as the cybernetic-ninjas thing goes, I thought it was kinda cheesey.

Comments? Anyone? Anyone? (Bueller? Bueller?)

Posted by: JYoung

I'm also surprised that no one else has commented on this episode too as I thought it was fantastic.
From the moment Wes pulled his twin guns and started blasting away (and Fred going "gee thanks Wesley, I'd like a gun too" :D ) to him repeatedly shooting his own father (or at least who he thought was his father), the episode rocked.
You see a lot of Wes' character here, no cardboard cutout for sure. Plus they've picked up the little tidbits scattered throughout the series about his relationship with his father and tied them all together quite nicely.
Seeing Wes shot his father like that, without hesitation and emptying the clip into him absolutely knocked me out of my chair!
Roy Dotrice was an excellent choice to play Roger Wyndham Price (although shouldn't his first name have been William)

Plus, discussions of Connor. Eve and Spike in the elevator. Spike and Roger "reminiscing". Angel and Spike trying to relate to Wes about how they killed their parents. All good stuff.

Angel is shaping up quite nicely this season......

Posted by: jwjody

I've only recently started watching Angel so I more than likely don't understand a lot of stuff. But, the robot father had ALOT of knowledge about Wesley, and Spike, and perhaps Angel. At the end Angel remarked that they got the info from the Watcher's archives, but those have been blown up for a while now, so would this new bad guy be a rogue watcher? Or rogue councilperson?

J

Posted by: Fleegle

quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
I've only recently started watching Angel so I more than likely don't understand a lot of stuff. But, the robot father had ALOT of knowledge about Wesley, and Spike, and perhaps Angel. At the end Angel remarked that they got the info from the Watcher's archives, but those have been blown up for a while now, so would this new bad guy be a rogue watcher? Or rogue councilperson?

J

After Wes's "dad" locked him in the vault and knocked him out, I was sure that teh Watcher's Council had found a replacement for the Slayer(s) in the cyborgs. Little puppets that they had better control over.

Posted by: bentleyml

I really enjoyed this episode. I thought everything just felt right. Wesley in the begining being action hero man and then as soon as his Father shows up he becomes bumbling moron man. It was great. Wesley emptying the entire clip into his "Father".

I can not wait to find out more about these Cybord-Ninja-Things or at least who sent them.

This really seemed like the type of plan the Watchers would have put into action if they were still around. So this may have very well been a group of Watchers that were behind the Cyborg-Ninja's.

Posted by: Kylep

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
...
Seeing Wes shot his father like that, without hesitation and emptying the clip into him absolutely knocked me out of my chair!...

Me too, It was an excellent moment, only marred by my fear on how they would handle it right after-wards. For some reason i had this fear that it would just be swept under the rug so to speak, but him stumbling away and vomiting was great, as well as the obvious mental torment it left even after he found out it wasn't really his father. Even when he called his dad and it was obvious he was just getting a hard time from him from the word "hello" they avoided a good opportunity to make it a "oh, thats why I shot him" kind of moment.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Yes, Wesley shooting "his father" was a Buffy moment, if you know what I mean.

And it's odd, Angel doesn't really have a lot of Buffy moments (the only other I can recall offhand was the birth of Connor). But that was definitely one!

Posted by: TiVaholic

There were a lot of great one-liners in this episode, I love Spike being back. They always give him the best lines. There were even a few moments of "up-Spike" :)

Posted by: jwjody

quote:
Originally posted by TiVaholic
There were a lot of great one-liners in this episode, I love Spike being back. They always give him the best lines. There were even a few moments of "up-Spike" :)

After the father went on about stumbling upon Spike in an orphanage, killing 2 of his men, and the others barely making it out alive..

Spike: "Well, how ya been?"

J

Posted by: Connie

The line that made me pause the TiVo and hoot helplessly was "You know, a lot of people have sex with robots, it's more common than you think!"

Posted by: lachacg

Best episode of the season by far. My favorite line was the conversation between Wesley and his father. I laughed out loud because the delivery was great:

Father:
...your tenure as watcher ranks as our most embarassing failure

Wesley:
Really? <long pause>
I beat out everyone dieing in an explosion as most embarassing failure?

Posted by: Peter000

Enjoyable. Though at the end I kind of felt cheated that I didn't really meet Wesley's dad, but a simulation.

Fred shouldn't have gone home at the end. She and Wesley have some talkin' to do. It must be obvious now to Fred how Wesley feels about her, but still, dating a guy who automatically empties an etire clip of bullets into his father's chest because he threatened her life must give a girl pause.

I get the impression Wesley's dad himself didn't have anything to do with it. I'm hoping it's a brand new continuing threat (other than simply being remnants of the Council). We shall see.

Posted by: brahamt

Laughed out loud on this one, though probably a reference to the trio from Buffy.

quote:
Originally posted by Connie
The line that made me pause the TiVo and hoot helplessly was "You know, a lot of people have sex with robots, it's more common than you think!"

Posted by: Ben7H

I finally watched this last night. What a great episode. This season is really coming together. It's about time Wesley got the spotligh and they've been alluding to his fractured relationship with his father since the first season. It's also worth noting that this episode was written by Drew Goddard, who wrote the excellent Anya-centric episode last season on Buffy.

I enjoy Smallville a lot too, but when you compare how original Angel is in it's fifth season to how boring and repititive Wednesday's third-season episode of Smallville was, it's amazing that Smallville is the more popular show.

Posted by: buffan

quote:
Originally posted by Ben7H

I enjoy Smallville a lot too, but when you compare how original Angel is in it's fifth season to how boring and repititive Wednesday's third-season episode of Smallville was, it's amazing that Smallville is the more popular show.

Although I enjoy Smallville, it's always been very uneven in quality. This week, it was pretty lame.

Unfortunately for Angel, I think it's starting to become more uneven in quality. This week's episode...very good. Last week's...terrible, IMHO. Season two is currently showing on TNT: it seems like almost every episode that season was very good. Joss Whedon was really on-target that year, with Buffy season five and Angel season two.

Posted by: LoadStar

quote:
Originally posted by brahamt
Laughed out loud on this one, though probably a reference to the trio from Buffy.

Close. I'll enclose the next bit in spoiler tags - if you haven't seen Buffy season 5, don't look.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Warren (one of the trio) was the robot builder. He first appeared on Buffy in season 5, in the episode "I Was Made To Love You," in which he builds a robot girlfriend who hunts him down. After Spike sees this, he has Warren make a robot version of Buffy that he sleeps with for a while.

Buffy finds out about the robot version of herself, and takes the robot away from Spike. They then use that robot as a distraction in the battle with Glory in "The Gift."

Posted by: sean67854

I've never heard the Buffy score, and I've not paid attention enough to notice, but does the same person write the scores for all of Whedon's shows? Angel and Firefly definitely have the same flavor.

Posted by: dcheesi

Hmm, I suspected dear ol' dad might be a 'borg, but I figured it was at least shaped like him. Shouldn't W&H's mojo-filters have detected a "glamour" spell?

BTW, I can understand why Fred didn't stick around. Though she likes Wes a little, she already chose another over him once before, and it looks like she's pursuing her little lab-rat pretty strongly at the moment. Just because Wes is in love with her doesn't mean they are destined to hook up...

Posted by: DreadPirateRob

quote:
Originally posted by sean67854
I've never heard the Buffy score, and I've not paid attention enough to notice, but does the same person write the scores for all of Whedon's shows? Angel and Firefly definitely have the same flavor.

By score are you referring to opening theme music, or musical pieces throughout the episode?

If you'r referring to opening theme music - Buffy's was a piece from an actual alt-rock song by a band called Nerfherder (great name for SW buffs). I've never heard the Firefly score, so I can't comment on any similarities there.

Posted by: TiVaholic

quote:
Originally posted by brahamt
Laughed out loud on this one, though probably a reference to the trio from Buffy.

You know, I didn't get the line in the show until you said that. I feel so stupid that I missed such a great line. He said it and I was just blank like "Wha?"

Oh, I was in a store once and heard a song, and one of the cashiers/people behind the counter said "This sounds like the Buffy theme." And it really did...that might be it.

Posted by: lordargent

I don't recall the exact quote but Spike said something along the lines of.

quote:
Apparently, he used to be called the headboy

Posted by: sschwart

I was rather amused with the Spike line at the end about him killing his mom, and then his mom wanting to shag him, etc...

Great episode... Good to see Wes dark again.

Posted by: TiVaholic

Yes, Spike's line about his mom and about the headboy (to Angel) both made me crack up.

Posted by: Cathy/Vik

My main thing w/this ep was over was a feeling of, "FINALLY! A decent episode this season!!"

This season has been lackluster, at best.
But this wk's episode was actually really quite good!

Drama and trama and humor! Oh my!

Posted by: cheesesteak

quote:
FINALLY! A decent episode this season!!"

No love for Numero Cinco and the Devil's Robot? I thought this one was merely ok but I thought last weeks was the best so far.

Posted by: Cathy/Vik

For me, cheesy eps like Numero Cinco can only work as "comic relief" in the middle of some great, dramatic eps.

I have now seen ONE ep like that so far this season. And it was after Numero Cinco. ;)

(And I don't even remember which one Devil's Robot was....)

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I think Cathy has put her finger on half the problem. ALL the episodes this year have been perfectly good episodes, I think, but the season as a whole has been blah. It's almost all about individual moments, with no over-arching narrative drive to sweep us along.

Now, perhaps (probably, knowing ME) there's something going on that is more than it seems, with Wolfram & Hart, presumably. I know that when I watched Buffy Season 4 on DVD, it "read" MUCH better than when it first aired; knowing where it was going made me appreciate its almost invisible structure on second viewing. (Another thing Buffy 4 and Angel this year have in common is you don't know who the Big Bad is for a long time...at least, I assume there'll be one here!) But whatever structure there is to this season of Angel largely eludes me so far...and I certainly hope things kick into gear soon!

Posted by: Leetah

I believe the Angel theme was done by Darling Violetta. Firefly was orignial lyrics written by Whedon, I think, but I don't know who sang it.

edit: Found it. The Main Title Theme for Firefly was written by Joss Whedon, and was performed by Sonny Rhodes.

Leetah

Posted by: Fustanella

Speaking of themes, I *love* when they change the Buffy / Angel opening credits to update the context.

Angel before this season: crashing through a double door dramatically as the song kicks into high gear with the gong.

Angel this season, same point: he snaps a legal folder shut striding with the crew down the hallway of Wolfram & Hart.

:D

Posted by: JYoung

There is one thing you have to consider about this season of Angel.
The WB wouldn't renew it for the fifth season unless they cut the budget, put Spike in the show, and toned down the arcs. So I suspect that part of this is due to network "suggestions".

And I think that Cathy just doesn't like Mexican wrestlers...... ;)

Posted by: TiVaholic

Didn't Joss say that this season would be more....individual episodes?

But don't most seasons start out like this, just some pointless episodes at the beginning, like Buffy season 7, then the Big Bad comes in?

You can tell the budget has been cut. Spending too much time in the law firm. Although all those fancy cars in the parking deck...

Posted by: Cathy/Vik

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
And I think that Cathy just doesn't like Mexican wrestlers...... ;)

Doh! You found me out! :p

Posted by: NJChris

quote:
Originally posted by Cathy/Vik
My main thing w/this ep was over was a feeling of, "FINALLY! A decent episode this season!!"

This season has been lackluster, at best.
But this wk's episode was actually really quite good!

Drama and trama and humor! Oh my!

THANK YOU!! I've been saying this since the season started. How much it's been lacking. I thought I was the only one when most others were saying how great the shows were this season.

This episode is what a good Angel/Buffy episode is. Serious with some with thrown in.

Posted by: NJChris

quote:
Originally posted by TiVaholic
Didn't Joss say that this season would be more....individual episodes?

But don't most seasons start out like this, just some pointless episodes at the beginning, like Buffy season 7, then the Big Bad comes in?

Ick.. don't use Season 7 (the I don't know what direction I'm going in season) as an example. The seasons before had individual episodes.. but many with bits and pieces of the whole season's plot thrown in.