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CARNIVAL 11/16 (spoilers)
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Posted by: lordargent

I'm really wondering about this tree dude. Anyone with a full body tattoo of a tree has got to be a bit psycho.

Lodz is such a bastard!

Posted by: ronbo

How come Sofie's mom is the only character that doesn't really 'DO' anything, but she's the one that creeps me out the most? (More than the bearded lady or lizard boy, eve.)

Posted by: lordargent

quote:
Originally posted by ronbo
How come Sofie's mom is the only character that doesn't really 'DO' anything, but she's the one that creeps me out the most?

She, uhh, did something once.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I headed over to IMDB and looked up the expanded credits, I found this interesting tidbit.

Scott Fishkind .... Dark Man

I'm assuming that dark man is the tree tattoo freak. That's the character that freaks me out now. Especially after seeing him on the mural on the wall.

I'm also wondering what happened between bens father and management. And who was in control before management.

Posted by: FatherTed

quote:
Originally posted by lordargent
And who was in control before management.

In this show Samson explained what was 'pre-Management'. All we need to know is why the carnivale took the direction it did after Management came and took over.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by FatherTed
In this show Samson explained what was 'pre-Management'. All we need to know is why the carnivale took the direction it did after Management came and took over.

I'm guessing Management took over Carnivale in order to get Ben when he showed up, presumably as part of its ongoing dispute with Henry Scudder.

I wonder where Lodz fits in with all this. We know he used to have Samson's job. Was he with Carnivale before Managment came on the scene? Or was he put in by Management, then screwed up somehow and was demoted, and now has been reinstated because Samson isn't playing ball with Management's plans for Ben?

Posted by: drew2k

I noticed for the first time in the closing credits that one of the prominent supporting guest stars was "John Doe". Do you think John Doe is the voice of Management? The voice has been driving me crazy, trying to identify it. (It sounds to me like the voice of an actress who portrayed a Vietnamese man in a Vietnam War-era movie, Linda something? She is very petite. I believe she was a photographer in the movie, or worked with a journalist in it.)

I agree with Rob - Manangement only joined the Carnivale after Scudder left, with the purpose of searching for Scudder. I wonder if Scudder is actually somewhere in the Carnivale, disguised somehow. It seems that Lodz can only get into Ben's dream through physical contact, but Scudder is in there too, fighting Lodz to keep him out. Being Ben's father, maybe Scudder doesn't need physical contact, but he obiously has mental abilities, and maybe Scudder uses illusions to make everyone see something different when they look at him. (Hmmm - snakeman?)

BTW - Sophie's mom doesn't freak me out, but most scenes with Justin do. Definite aura of evil there, and now that he's really teaming up with his sister, double-whammy!

Posted by: dswallow

quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
I noticed for the first time in the closing credits that one of the prominent supporting guest stars was "John Doe". Do you think John Doe is the voice of Management? The voice has been driving me crazy, trying to identify it. (It sounds to me like the voice of an actress who portrayed a Vietnamese man in a Vietnam War-era movie, Linda something? She is very petite. I believe she was a photographer in the movie, or worked with a journalist in it.)

Linda Hunt.

Posted by: drew2k

Thanks Doug - Just looked her up on IMDB. The 1982 movie was "The Year of Living Dangerously" and was set in Indonesia, not Vietnam. I can rest now!

Posted by: ClutchBrake

quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
BTW - Sophie's mom doesn't freak me out, but most scenes with Justin do. Definite aura of evil there, and now that he's really teaming up with his sister, double-whammy!

I think he was channeling The Kurgan when he said "finish it" to the priest.

Looking at his IMDB credits I was surprised to see just how many videogames he voiced.

Posted by: lordargent

quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
Looking at his IMDB credits I was surprised to see just how many videogames he voiced.

Not to mention cartoons.

Gargoyles: The Hunted (1998) (V) (voice) .... Wolf

Woo hoo, wolf.

I remember when the Gargoyles marathon was going on, and I had anywhere from 25-30 episodes at a time sitting on Tivo. It's amazing how many 30 minute cartoons you can fit in @ basic rez.

Um, tangent.

Posted by: Family

The series seemed (to me anyway) to become less tied together in this episode which was surprising since there are only two left. While the storyline of Justin has been interesting for weeks... where is it going and will there be any tie in with the Carnival at any point (other than speculation)? What's up with Sophie's mom?

It's becoming Twin Peaks more and more. Sometime the viewer has to feel that the show has made a giant leap forward and move on. You can't tease forever. Perhaps others are getting more out of this than me, but by the decreasing number of posts over the weeks... I bet interest is waning.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Oh, I'm still loving this show. And I still get the sense that it's been moving steadily towards...something. Unlike Twin Peaks (after Laura's killer was revealed) or X-Files (the whole time).

Posted by: jimest

I have not missed an episode but I think its time to tie it together and let us know what is going on. I will be disappointed if this season ends and we still don't know how it all ties together and what management is trying to do.

Jim

Posted by: Steveknj

I haven't seen this week's episode yet (I find these spoilers help me UNDERSTAND what is going on, but I have two theories who Scudder is:

1) It's Brother Justin - To me, that might be the only logical tie in to Carnivale for this charachter.

2) It's Ben himself - his dreams are about himself, and Lodz is prodding him to remember his past so he can take over Carnivale from Management with Scudder.

Posted by: Redleg

Great episode. It's interesting that some people felt this one was "unravelling" the story a little, because I had the opposite feeling. Although at times it seems like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth, I'm impressed that they can keep telling a story of good and evil and yet maintain this ambiguity for so long. I hope the final resolution isn't some ironic statement about the absence of good and evil. Suddenly I'm reminded of Futurama, when Brannigan goes off to fight the "ultimate war between good and neutral," LOL.

Brother Justin's return was awesome... I'm really looking forward to seeing where that leads. The relationship between Ben and the snake charmer has lots of meaning to deconstruct, too. I hope the show keeps building the momentum through the last two episodes, and I hope we don't have to wait a year to see the next season!

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I think Scudder is exactly who he seems to be--Ben's father, who is in a conflict with Management, into which Ben is being drawn. Brother Justin is somehow a part of this conflict (perhaps being drawn in the same way Ben is).

Posted by: zaknafein

What was up with the markings on Sofie's mom when Sofie was talking to the lady?

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein
What was up with the markings on Sofie's mom when Sofie was talking to the lady?

Are you talking about the black vail she was wearing? I don't remember seeing any markings.

Posted by: zaknafein

quote:
Originally posted by mp2526
Are you talking about the black vail she was wearing? I don't remember seeing any markings.

That may have been it. I don't recall her wearing that before.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein
That may have been it. I don't recall her wearing that before.

I think she wore it once before, usually when she is sitting up in a chair. Usually she is lying down in bed and I think there is a curtain that kinda hides her. I guess its because it might be a little off-putting for the clientele to see her blank stare.

Posted by: chroma601

quote:
Originally posted by Redleg
I hope we don't have to wait a year to see the next season!

I was under the impression that this was it, 13 episodes and done.

Posted by: doconner

I think they originally wrote it to be covered in 1 season, but had an idea that if it did well in the ratings to renew it. About a month ago I read that it was renewed for a 2nd season.

Many people, myself included, fear that this will compromise the show. They will never be able to tell us everything, and it will become an endless tease. I hope I'm wrong on that, but I can see that being an easy trap to fall into.

Duane-O

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by chroma601
I was under the impression that this was it, 13 episodes and done.

Nope, it will continue at the very least for another season.

Posted by: LouCipher

quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
I noticed for the first time in the closing credits that one of the prominent supporting guest stars was "John Doe". Do you think John Doe is the voice of Management?

John Doe is the actor that portrays the scout from the other carnival that Ben stole the templar ring from. He is also one of the original members of the punk band X.

Posted by: DLiquid

After a late start, I finally caught up to this show.

So how much time do you think has past since the first episode? Three months? Six months? A year?

I think the soldier in the dreams (John Savage) is Scudder, so it isn't anyone we've seen outside of dreams.

I don't think Management is voiced by Linda Hunt. I hear her all the time on City Arts and Lectures, and the Management voice didn't ring any bells with me.

Posted by: dswallow

quote:
Originally posted by DLiquid
I don't think Management is voiced by Linda Hunt. I hear her all the time on City Arts and Lectures, and the Management voice didn't ring any bells with me.

http://www.post-gazette.com/tv/2003...ale1101fnp2.asp

quote:
Management will be voiced by actress Linda Hunt and may even be glimpsed in season two.

And a good indication that we'll be getting a lot of answers in episodes 11 & 12:

quote:
"I would absolutely say we found our voice in episode eight," Schmidt said by phone from Los Angeles this week. "Eight, nine and 10 aren't full of answers, but there's a forward drive to them. In 11 and 12, every scene answers something."

Posted by: DLiquid

quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Management will be voiced by actress Linda Hunt and may even be glimpsed in season two.

Doh! I stand corrected.

Posted by: drew2k

Wow - I guessed right on Linda Hunt! :D

Posted by: drew2k

quote:
Originally posted by LouCipher
John Doe is the actor that portrays the scout from the other carnival that Ben stole the templar ring from. He is also one of the original members of the punk band X.

When Ben and Samson were leaving the "temple"/lodge, there was a shot of someone observing them from an upstairs window. I thought at first it was the other carnival scout, but it was so quick I wasn't sure. Now I'm thinking it was ... He may have a larger role soon, too.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
When Ben and Samson were leaving the "temple"/lodge, there was a shot of someone observing them from an upstairs window. I thought at first it was the other carnival scout, but it was so quick I wasn't sure. Now I'm thinking it was ... He may have a larger role soon, too.

I believe it was

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by mp2526
I believe it was

He was lurking around on the street when Ben & Samson went inside...

Posted by: Grappik

He was also staring at them with a dead rabbit in each hand when they drove by that "jackrabbit drive".

-Grappik

Posted by: uncdrew

I thought the dead rabbit holding guy was more of a figment.

"Do I have a fig? I've got an entire figment."

Posted by: youbetcha

quote:
Originally posted by Grappik
He was also staring at them with a dead rabbit in each hand when they drove by that "jackrabbit drive".

-Grappik

I don't think John Doe (the other carny scout guy) was the dead rabbit guy.

I agree with the 2nd season allowing the 'perpetual tease' factor into the story - I hope they avoid that!