TiVo Community Forums Archives - Why shouldn't I get a Showstopper/ReplayTV?

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Why shouldn't I get a Showstopper/ReplayTV?
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Posted by: tedolap

I've tried 'em both and need to decide. I liked the Showstopper for it's straightforward User Interface (including an easy to read Guide), Quickskip, Zones. I even liked the remote after a while. My problem was that for certain stations coming from my Scientific Atlanta digital cable box (especially HBO) the pulsating in pictures with detail (grass, tree branches, brickface, etc) was amplified in the Medium or Standard qualities. (I discusssed this in http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/004620.html ) So I decided to return it and try a Tivo. I liked having greater control over what is recorded, better info on what the unit chose to record, recordable buffer and even the program guide. However, the Sony Tivo was also showing pulsating problems at the lower qualities, though perhaps not as obvious. I was seeing it in color fields as well as in the highly detailed fields where I saw it in the Showstopper. The pixellization resulting from motion, changing scenes, or lights flashes was definitely worse at all qualities for the Tivo. I ultimately decided to return the Tivo because I was seeing some pixellization even in the best quality. (The Showstopper best quality was nearly indistinguishable from the original picture.) Now I'm wondering if the feed was the source of the pixellization I thought was caused by the Tivo. After I returned the Sony unit, I noticed that the Wimbledon satellite broadcasts I had been watching on TNT were chock full of artifacts.

So here are my questions:

1. Do you notice any pixellization while in Tivo's best quality mode? How about high quality mode? Are Tivo's really the equal of Replay's in the higher qualities?

2. Is 2.5 likely to include new features for SA that will address Replay advantages (Quickskip, buffer, myreplay.com, etc) or provide some other killer feature? Will the upgrade make me sorry that I chose Replay or is it likely to be mostly a maintanance upgrade? (I've read many of the official pronouncements so far on the upgrade from RB and kick myself for missing the NYC demo. Any private correspondence from Tivo to keep me in the fold would be held in the strictest confidence.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif)

3. It won't be easy to go back to VCR's for a few months, but should I wait out the summer to see the new hardware?

The bottom line is that I could be ultimately be happy with either and it shouldn't matter much which I choose; I may be trying too hard to optimize things. Any thought on these issues would be welcome.

Ted

[This message has been edited by tedolap (edited 07-10-2001).]

Posted by: arjay

quote:
Originally posted by tedolap:
I've tried 'em both and need to decide. I liked the Showstopper for it's straightforward User Interface (including an easy to read Guide), Quickskip, Zones. I even liked the remote after a while. My problem was that for certain stations coming from my Scientific Atlanta digital cable box (especially HBO) the pulsating in pictures with detail (grass, tree branches, brickface, etc) was amplified in the Medium or Standard qualities. (I discusssed this in http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/004620.html ) So I decided to return it and try a Tivo. I liked having greater control over what is recorded, better info on what the unit chose to record, recordable buffer and even the program guide. However, the Sony Tivo was also showing pulsating problems at the lower qualities, though perhaps not as obvious. I was seeing it in color fields as well as in the highly detailed fields where I saw it in the Showstopper. The pixellization resulting from motion, changing scenes, or lights flashes was definitely worse at all qualities for the Tivo. I ultimately decided to return the Tivo because I was seeing some pixellization even in the best quality. (The Showstopper best quality was nearly indistinguishable from the original picture.) Now I'm wondering if the feed was the source of the pixellization I thought was caused by the Tivo. After I returned the Sony unit, I noticed that the Wimbledon satellite broadcasts I had been watching on TNT were chock full of artifacts.

You're going to get a slew of responses, probably long before this posts.

quote:

So here are my questions:

1. Do you notice any pixellization while in Tivo's best quality mode? How about high quality mode? Are Tivo's really the equal of Replay's in the higher qualities?

ReplayTV and TIVO are almost indistinguishable in my set up at their best quality level. I haven't explored their lower quality levels a great deal except for TIVO's high quality which I use. I've heard ReplayTV may have a slightly better worst quality picture than TIVO. However ReplayTV's sound degrades with lower quality picture settings while TIVO's doesn't. TIVO has four levels of quality while ReplayTV has three. Supposedly (I haven't experimented) TIVO's biggest drop in quality, at least theoretically, is between its high and medium settings.

quote:

2. Is 2.5 likely to include new features for SA that will address Replay advantages (Quickskip, buffer, myreplay.com, etc) or provide some other killer feature? Will the upgrade make me sorry that I chose Replay or is it likely to be mostly a maintanance upgrade? (I've read many of the official pronouncements so far on the upgrade from RB and kick myself for missing the NYC demo. Any private correspondence from Tivo to keep me in the fold would be held in the strictest confidence.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

It's unlikely TIVO will do anything regarding the buffer or the internet programming gimmick that ReplayTV has. There's a fair chance that 30 sec QS might be enabled via backdoors for the hobbiest set but I'll believe it when I see it. Not having QS is a TIVO marketing decision.

quote:

3. It won't be easy to go back to VCR's for a few months, but should I wait out the summer to see the new hardware?

If you can deal with instant gratification pangs I'd recommend waiting with this caveat: If you come across a really good deal snap it up.

quote:

The bottom line is that I could be ultimately be happy with either and it shouldn't matter much which I choose; I may be trying too hard to optimize things. Any thought on these issues would be welcome.
Ted

You've used both already. Do you have a gut level preference? If so, go with it. If not, get both a TIVO and a ReplayTV. They're both recorders, and do many similiar things. They have greatly differing styles in the way they do similiar things and each does things the other can't.

I've got both. If I had only one it'd be a ReplayTV unit, but I decided to get both.

Look out for good deals. ReplayTV is generally cheaper than TIVO. The cash equivalent for the TIVO service is $250. IOW, a $250. TIVO costs the same as a $500. ReplayTV. In actual cash, unless you want to pay it monthly (and never stop.)

Posted by: DrStrange

My stock response to general Tivo vs Replay questions is this but if you've tried both you may already know much of it.

With a clean signal there shouldn't be any pixellation at highest quality on either box. But substandard signals can mess up MPEG encoders more than they'll mess up analog equipment, and it's possible the Tivo and Showstopper are manifesting their sensitivity differently. One thing though is that the Showstoppers have a nasty tendency to falsely block some deviant signals as copy protected, preventing you from watching them at all. This happened to me on a channel that had a poor but watchable signal but others have reported it on channels that look perfectly fine. The problem is rare but if your signal isn't normal your odds of encountering it go up.

I didn't see what TV you have but I've seen others mention that Wegas need particular tuning to work properly with a PVR, after which they look quite nice. Search for "wega" if that's what you have.

I wouldn't make any decisions based on rumor of what may come out in 2.5. Buy based on what they do now and take anything that 2.5 adds as a bonus.

All that's been said definitively about the new box is that it'll be cheaper to manufacture. I don't think there are any plans to add anything new to it other than whatever comes from three years of technology advances raising the performance of low end processors and whatnot. There is also the possibility that the new boxes will only have room for one drive, limiting expansion. But nobody who knows is talking so there's no good information on which to base a buy now/wait decision. It's your gamble.

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Posted by: gbubar

I agree with Arjay that if you can find a good deal on either Tivo or RePlay TV, pick one up. I have a 20hr Tivo and just love it. I am always "selling" people on Tivo. However, I was in Best Buy the other day and saw a deal I could not pass up. They had a 30hr Panasonic Showstopper RePlay TV unit on sale for $239.00 (Display Model). I go in this store all the time to check out PVR's and have never seen this unit hooked up. Anyway, I talked them down to $199.00. Paid for the unit and found out I had an $100.00 mail in rebate. So to make a long story short, my final cost is $99.00 for a unit that normally sells for $549.00 (could not pass it up). Got the unit home, hooked it up without any problems. It downloaded the newest software version on the first call in that night and have been happy ever since. I put the unit in my office and it has improved the picture on my 20" Toshiba TV. I still prefer Tivo (better control over what you record and better information). Bottom line, if you can find a deal on either unit, take it.

Posted by: tedolap

I have a 32" Panasonic TV. I have turned down the sharpness control to reduce the pulsating but I do not have a DVD player to properly tune the TV.

So you think that I was fooled by a bad digital channel feed (eg, from Wimbledon) into believing that the Tivo Best Quality mode degraded the picture with pixellizations? I compared the same frames (again from Wimbledon) recorded directly from the cable box onto a VHS VCR and from Tivo's Best Quality mode. The small but noticeable amount of pixellization found on the VCR when Venus Williams was running seemed to be a bit more noticeable in the Tivo frame. I don't know how Replay would handle this. As I mentioned, the Replay/Showstopper did not seem to make the pulsating worse in the Highest quality mode, though it was definitely worse in the lower 2.

I guess that if I choose one then change my mind due to new software/hardware, it will make a nice anniversary present for my parents in January.

Ted

Posted by: jasonl99

One other point to note about the Replay vs. TiVo quality. While the video at the various quality levels is almost indistinguishable, the audio is.

TiVo always records audio at a "best" quality. Replay downgrades the quality of the audio as the video quality is lowered.

Here's a sample thread regarding the audio issues.

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