TiVo Community Forums Archives - Joan of Arcadia (Discuss the show, not theology)

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Joan of Arcadia (Discuss the show, not theology)
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Posted by: TivoFan

I've been watching this show and it's quickly become one of my favorites. I think that it's intelligently done. I love the way that they are able to give almost every character a full storyline, deftly combining many stories into a cohesive whole. What does everybody else think about this show?

The only other thread about this show I saw seemed to be devoted as much to the discussion of religion as it was to discussion of the show. There's nothing wrong with that, just I want to talk about the show, not about religion. So please leave the theology and religion discussions at the door. Thanks

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Well, since it's a show about religion and theology, I guess I don't have anything to say, then...

Posted by: TivoFan

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Well, since it's a show about religion and theology, I guess I don't have anything to say, then...

Do you like it? Are you watching it? What characters do you like? Does the concept work? C'mon, you're a smart guy. I'm sure you can find something to say.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Well, I like a lot of it. Last week I had some problems, but that was more problems with the nature of Christianity than the show itself...oops, sorry.

This week, I thought it was interesting that they brought in the original Joan of Arc and started to raise the questions of her hearing the voice of God...oops, sorry.

I do sometimes question the way they portray organized religion...oops, sorry.

Nope. Nothing to say.

Come on! The show is ABOUT RELIGION AND THEOLOGY! What you're asking for is like a discussion of Monday Night Football that doesn't talk about sports.

Posted by: LoadStar

I heavily disagree, Medieval Guy.

It's a drama that happens to have a very vaguely Judeo-Christian framework. It's not like it's a documentary about Christianity. It's a family drama that happens to have the main character talk to "God." It's no more "about" religion and theology than Touched by an Angel - in fact, significantly less so than Touched by an Angel, because quite frequently in that show they took no less than 5 minutes to share a mini sermon.

It's fair to say the show features religion and theology themes, but to say it's about religion and theology is assigning more to the show than is actually there.

Myself, I'm usually doing other stuff on Friday nights, so I have it TiVoing... I haven't sat down to watch an episode for a while. I might do that this weekend.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I heavily disagree with your heavy disagreement! Each episode is built almost entirely around some theological issue concerning the relationship between God and humanity; even the cop digressions are thematically related. If you take out the fact the Joan talks to God, almost everything else that happens in the show has no meaning. It's almost ALL within the context of those conversations and their significance.

Posted by: fonamna

Anyway. I really like the show, currently it's my second favorite.

Posted by: Cathy/Vik

I agree w/Medieval Guy.

Oops, that wasn't about the show was it? :p

Really, if you can't stand talk about theology, I think it would be quite hard to talk about this show...

*goes to make a more "open" thread about the show*

Posted by: Philosofy

I like the show, and it gets me thinking of what questions I would ask God if he really did talk to me.

I hope they don't cop out and have her brother walk again.

Some of the dialogue is pretty witty and intelligent:

Joan to her mother: "How come when I ask you a question, I get twenty questions back?"
Brother: "Think of it as Socratic parenting."
I know this went over my wife's head, but I enjoyed it.

Oh, and does Joe Montegna's twitchy eye bother anyone else.

Posted by: Sinuralan

I think part of the reason the other thread is talking so much about the theology of the show is because in the last two episodes, they've taken a much heavier hand (introducing the idea that you will suffer if you don't have blind faith in the micromanagement of God). So, we really are talking about the show and a significant new emphasis in the last two episodes.

But I like the show, I like the characters. There are bits here and there that are hard to believe but they're not major.

Posted by: dswallow

I wish they'd show the wheelchair ramp in use on the stairs. I love those things. :)

Posted by: bicker

And those last two episodes, Sinuralan, have definitely suffered as a result. I did like the show, but the ep on 11/14 was particularly bad, and this last episode was only marginally better. I'm not sure whether the writers simply ran out of ideas or what.

Posted by: brahamt

You know this one is coming. Joan disobeys God, wackiness ensues.

I thought that the last two episodes were certainly going to have God talking to Joan about choosing her own path; her own solutions to problems. The only problem I have with the God as they portray Him is that He gives only hints at what He wants and then she has to guess how He wants it done.

I think God knows the theory there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by brahamt
The only problem I have with the God as they portray Him is that He gives only hints at what He wants and then she has to guess how He wants it done.

Yes, but that fits in with the whole Christian "You don't have to understand God's Will; you just have to obey it" thing. And they seem to be introducing it deliberately, and I think (hope?) that they're setting it up for a more nuanced treatment. As I said in the other thread, one of my biggest problems with Christianity is the deeply-rooted notion that we shouldn't try to understand, but just do as we're told. I get the impression that they've only started to deal with that on Joan of Arcadia.

Posted by: Cathy/Vik

quote:
Originally posted by bicker
And those last two episodes, Sinuralan, have definitely suffered as a result. I did like the show, but the ep on 11/14 was particularly bad, and this last episode was only marginally better

You've GOT to be kidding!
These last 2 are 2 of the best so far imo!

Posted by: mjh

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Yes, but that fits in with the whole Christian "You don't have to understand God's Will; you just have to obey it" thing. And they seem to be introducing it deliberately, and I think (hope?) that they're setting it up for a more nuanced treatment. As I said in the other thread, one of my biggest problems with Christianity is the deeply-rooted notion that we shouldn't try to understand, but just do as we're told. I get the impression that they've only started to deal with that on Joan of Arcadia.

Really? I think they've been doing that from the beginning. Just about everything that God asks Joan to do, she doesn't understand why she's doing it. It's only afterwards that everything comes together to make sense as to what God was trying to accomplish.

As for the other thing (about trying to understand) maybe hit me in PM? I'd like to understand your gripes.

300

Posted by: mjh

quote:
Originally posted by brahamt
I think God knows the theory there is more than one way to skin a cat.

That depends on which theory of God this particular show is trying to represent. Too bad we can't discuss that here. :rolleyes:

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by mjh
Really? I think they've been doing that from the beginning. Just about everything that God asks Joan to do, she doesn't understand why she's doing it. It's only afterwards that everything comes together to make sense as to what God was trying to accomplish.

I meant that in terms of dealing with that concept, they have only begun; that is, they are still early in the process.

Posted by: bicker

quote:
Originally posted by Cathy/Vik
You've GOT to be kidding!
These last 2 are 2 of the best so far imo!

No, definitely not kidding, I assure you. The show has gone downhill precipitously in the last couple of weeks IMHO.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by bicker
No, definitely not kidding, I assure you. The show has gone downhill precipitously in the last couple of weeks IMHO.

Well, God says you're wrong. :D

(Or was that the Devil?)

Seriously, though, I'm with Cathy. The last two are where the show has begun to live up to its promise.

Posted by: bicker

Or not, as the case may be.

Perhaps we're looking for different things from the show? Perhaps the pilot and initial couple of episodes were what I was looking for, while the latter two episodes represent a marked change (as you've noted) away from what I was led, by the first episodes, to believe the series promise was?

Couldn't it be that? :)

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by bicker
Couldn't it be that? :)

No, you're just wrong. :D

(Hey, if there was ever a show about which it was appropriate to talk with religious certainty..!)

Posted by: mgk

I like the show and will continue to watch

Posted by: cheesesteak

quote:
You know this one is coming. Joan disobeys God, wackiness ensues.

If you ask me, Joan should have been disobeying God for a couple of weeks now. C'mon God, give the poor girl a clue!

Posted by: uncdrew

I liked the one with the boat.

Posted by: bobcarn

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy

...
Come on! The show is ABOUT RELIGION AND THEOLOGY! What you're asking for is like a discussion of Monday Night Football that doesn't talk about sports.

LOL! I think what he meant was that you can engage in a discussion of the show without getting into some of the religious debates we've had in the forums in the past. Those invariably end up with people putting down other people's religions or debating the existance of God. In other words, when talking religion or theology, it should be done within the context of the show.

Posted by: bicker

The reality, though, is that if a show presents subject-matter you passionately disagree with, in a positive light, or presents subject-matter you passionately believe, in a negative light, it is unlikely that that discrepancy will be readily overlooked. It almost assuredly will affect perception of quality. I believe that is the case here, with that show taking a radical turn of direction (with respect to issues of belief, not issues of writing, acting or directing) for the last two episodes, making it more appealing to Rob and less appealing to me.

Posted by: smak

Well to lighten things up, i'd like to say...

hang on....

quick check of IMDB.

Yes, Amber Tamblyn is cute.

I think the last 2 were different in that they didn't end up in a nice little feelgood moment, with the dad and the son working on the boat etc...

2 episodes ago, if i remember correctly, she followed God's wishes, and now her best friend hates her..

-smak-

Posted by: uncdrew

Well, the big G told her to get the art piece out of the show, which she failed to do. She "came through" later by destroying it.

That grudge is getting big.

Posted by: brahamt

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Well, God says you're wrong. :D

(Or was that the Devil?)

Seriously, though, I'm with Cathy. The last two are where the show has begun to live up to its promise.

Agreed. Although I have liked the show just fine since the beginning, the last two are clearly the show finding its legs.

Posted by: rasheed

The "am I crazy" storyline and "winking in case God is there" is just funny stuff because it comes off so convincingly.

I know of practically no one without a TiVo that watches the show because it is on Friday, but it's ratings are good anyway. This show is actually turning out to be more interesting then some of my tenured season passes.

Rasheed

Posted by: Gregd33

My wife and I like the show a great deal...

What is the deal with the lighting though? I think the Director Of Photography must be a vampire and scared of decent lighting. Everything is dark.

I know this started with the x-files and is similar on CSI... But it is really annoying and getting out of hand.

Posted by: dswallow

I think sometimes we're just a little too accustomed to sitcom lighting.

Posted by: Gregd33

quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
I think sometimes we're just a little too accustomed to sitcom lighting.

That, or the actors are getting uglier.. Joan looks like she is very cute though.. Cant be sure until she steps into daylight. :)

Posted by: dswallow

quote:
Originally posted by Gregd33
That, or the actors are getting uglier.. Joan looks like she is very cute though.. Cant be sure until she steps into daylight. :)

Capture a screen shot and use Photoshop. ;)

http://www.2150.com/files/joan_of_arcadia_s01e08_001.jpg

http://www.2150.com/files/joan_of_arcadia_s01e08_003.jpg

http://www.2150.com/files/joan_of_arcadia_s01e08_006.jpg

Posted by: coldtoes

Count me in the The Show Is Only Getting Better camp. When I started watching at the beginning of the season, I thought the show had potential, but was really bogged down by the heavy-handed melodrama over Kevin's paralysis. I kept watching in case it got better, but frankly I expected that was unlikely. Lo and behold, the melodrama disappeared, leaving the quirky, likeable parts behind! Each week, I continue to be amazed that this show started to live up to its potential, rather than going down the tubes like most other shows seem to.

Note: posted in this thread since I didn't even mention God ... oops ... rats!

Posted by: xix_84

What does everyone make of the blue-shift in photography for the 'police business' parts of the episodes, versus 'regular' filters/lighting for the family sections?

When I first noticed it, it was an interesting stylistic addition, but now it bugs me. C'mon, this is California, not Baltimore!

I was interested in how they were going to transition the lighting for the part where Joan found him after the accident, but it was so dark it wasn't important.

Posted by: Jeff Edsell

I think now that the makers of the show can feel more confident that viewers are comfortable with the premise, and get a little deeper with it.

It seems the God of the show is not only using Joan to accomplish positive goals, he's trying to get her to think about the choices she makes, and help her to understand that these choices have consequences. (Thus all the talk about causality in the episode with the mime.) He doesn't want her to follow instructions blindly, but to think about how her actions affect others.

I'm looking forward to the episode where Joan starts to do what God tells her in one way, but then thinks better of it and accomplishes the same goal in a better way.