TiVo Community Forums Archives - Where to complain?

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Where to complain?
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Posted by: weymo

I can never find where to complain to Tribune about their guide data.
So far this is the best I can find:

Gary Weitman
Vice President, Communications
Corporate Relations
gweitman@tribune.com

Christine Hennessey
Manager, Group Media Relations
Corporate Relations
chennessey@tribune.com

This info comes from http://www.tribune.com/feedback.html

Does anyone have a better contact since we are not supposed to be complaining to TiVo?

Posted by: mwhip

I would love to complain to MTV and VH1 to report their data correctly. Goodluck getting thru that corporate mess. I tried once and it was worse than dealing with Dell's India helpdesk.

Posted by: DougF

quote:
Originally posted by weymo
Does anyone have a better contact since we are not supposed to be complaining to TiVo?

I'm curious about why should we not complain to TiVo? We don't pay Tribune for the service, we pay TiVo.

Posted by: aaronw

You are more than welcome to complain to TiVo about the problem, but your complaint may take longer to have an effect. If the movie listings are wrong in the newspaper, do you complain to the newspaper? Sure, you pay for it, but they're just a conduit and the complaint would have to work its way back through...

Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by weymo
I can never find where to complain to Tribune about their guide data.

Send email to feedback@zap2it.com with subject line “Lineup Discrepancy” and being sure to include all the required information listed at Zap2It's Feedback page.

Posted by: cptodd

quote:
Originally posted by mwhip
I would love to complain to MTV and VH1 to report their data correctly. Goodluck getting thru that corporate mess. I tried once and it was worse than dealing with Dell's India helpdesk.

By the way I heard that Dell sacked the India thing.

Posted by: bonehead

quote:
Originally posted by Frozen Solid
I'm curious about why should we not complain to TiVo? We don't pay Tribune for the service, we pay TiVo.

You're right in the sense that it is 100% TiVo's responsibility to fix the problem. They're the ones we send money to, they're the ones that are obligated to provide the agreed upon service in return. Sadly, they're just an inept bunch of hacks who are just reselling someone elses product, so complaining to them is going to have about as much of an impact as complaining to your local CBS affiliate that you wish Rupert would stop wearing skirts.

Of course, in the end, it doesn't matter who you complain to, Survivor has already been taped, edited, and aired, so there's nothing you can do to make Rupert put on some pants. It's just one of those things that can't be changed, no matter how hard you try.

The guide data issues are much the same. The guide data comes from Tribune. You're not one of Tribune's customers, how much of a **** do you think they give whether or not you like them? Tribune has an effective monopoly on the market and thus has no motivation to make anyone happy. There's nowhere else to go.

This gives TiVo a very convenient situation. When your TiVo works, they get the credit. When it frells up, they have a very convenient scapegoat to blame it on.

Doesn't change the fact that TiVos don't function as advertised. They never will, because the things that are necessary for that to happen are in the hands of people who have a vested interest in seeing PVRs fail.

Posted by: bonehead

quote:
Originally posted by cptodd
By the way I heard that Dell sacked the India thing.

Yeah, it sounded like a good idea at first so they went with it, but after further investigation it turns out that the best place on the planet to find non-English speakers is right here in the United States.

Why pay for those overseas phone lines when you can piss people off just as effictively for local rates?

Posted by: dswallow

quote:
Originally posted by cptodd
By the way I heard that Dell sacked the India thing.

Only partially. They stopped using out-of-country call centers for business user support. Home user support is still outsourced to India.

Posted by: cptodd

quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Only partially. They stopped using out-of-country call centers for business user support. Home user support is still outsourced to India.

Oh? Thanks for the enlightenment!

Posted by: bicker

quote:
Originally posted by aaronw
You are more than welcome to complain to TiVo about the problem, but your complaint may take longer to have an effect. If the movie listings are wrong in the newspaper, do you complain to the newspaper? Sure, you pay for it, but they're just a conduit and the complaint would have to work its way back through...

Well-said!

Posted by: DougF

quote:
Originally posted by bonehead
You're right in the sense that it is 100% TiVo's responsibility to fix the problem. They're the ones we send money to, they're the ones that are obligated to provide the agreed upon service in return. Sadly, they're just an inept bunch of hacks who are just reselling someone elses product, so complaining to them is going to have about as much of an impact as complaining to your local CBS affiliate that you wish Rupert would stop wearing skirts.

Of course, in the end, it doesn't matter who you complain to, Survivor has already been taped, edited, and aired, so there's nothing you can do to make Rupert put on some pants. It's just one of those things that can't be changed, no matter how hard you try.

The guide data issues are much the same. The guide data comes from Tribune. You're not one of Tribune's customers, how much of a **** do you think they give whether or not you like them? Tribune has an effective monopoly on the market and thus has no motivation to make anyone happy. There's nowhere else to go.

This gives TiVo a very convenient situation. When your TiVo works, they get the credit. When it frells up, they have a very convenient scapegoat to blame it on.

Doesn't change the fact that TiVos don't function as advertised. They never will, because the things that are necessary for that to happen are in the hands of people who have a vested interest in seeing PVRs fail.

Excellent points. The problem is that TiVo has made a product that has so many of us hooked, that we'll never take the steps needed to make complaints more noticeable. Most of us would rather put up with the problems than risk having to cancel our TiVo service to make a point.

They have right where they want us...

Posted by: bicker

quote:
Originally posted by Frozen Solid
Most of us would rather put up with the problems than risk having to cancel our TiVo service to make a point.

In other words, you evaluate the value provided vs. the price paid, and determine that it is "worth it." That's what market pricing is all about.

Posted by: cwoody222

quote:
Originally posted by aaronw
You are more than welcome to complain to TiVo about the problem, but your complaint may take longer to have an effect. If the movie listings are wrong in the newspaper, do you complain to the newspaper? Sure, you pay for it, but they're just a conduit and the complaint would have to work its way back through...

I disagree. Call the newspaper. The newspaper can be proactive and call the theater to verify information and fix it themselves - they'll want accurate information for their readers. It's their JOB.

The theater might just log the complaint and think "we'll fix it later" and then never get to it. The might think "oh, who reads the newspaper anyway".

But anyway, in this case, I'd complain to TiVo (because you are their customer), Tribune (since it's their data) and the network (since they supply the data). If you're really wanting to get thru to the right parties in the quickest time, why don't you complain to everyone.

Whenever I have a lineup discrepancy I email TiVo, Zap2It and ReplayTV. Can't hurt.

Posted by: bicker

I think we need to differentiate between who one should complaint to vs. who one should expect to effect remediation. You're right: Complain to everyone -- including us here in the forum!!! However, place expectations on those who have promised what you're seeking. In this case, that's probably no one, so this boils down to something you'd like to see happen rather than something that should happen.

Posted by: doom1701

What's interesting about the TiVo dynamic is that I think people are more likely to stop watching certain shows or networks, because of a guide issue that they might not be responsible for.

For example, if I want to see Reality Show X on Channel 100, and Channel 100's guide data is always wrong for Reality Show X, I will probably just give up on trying to watch it (or maybe Channel 100 entirely), even though it might be Tribune that is screwing up the data.

Compare that to movie times in newspapers--I might stop getting the newspaper, or stop going to a certain theater, if their times are always wrong. The withdrawl of my business is from the parties that are making the error.

Posted by: ReenieS

My problem is not necessarily bad data-- but bad networks. Like NBC screwing up the start/stop times of its Thursday night lineup, just so your VCRs/DVRs are messed up and can't tape overlapping shows from other networks. I fooled them, I got two TIVO's. Living Room tapes CSI and Bedroom tapes ER.
Take that, Networks!
And I STILL fast forward your dumb commercials!

Posted by: cheesesteak

It's TiVo's responsibility to try to make sure that Tribune provides accurate information. I buy from Tivo, TiVo buys from Tribune. When my pc's hard drive goes on the blink, I don't call the drive manufacturer, I call the computer manufacturer. It's their job to fix it.

Posted by: DougF

quote:
Originally posted by bicker
In other words, you evaluate the value provided vs. the price paid, and determine that it is "worth it." That's what market pricing is all about.

Correct, but my point (which I probably didn't do a good enough job of explaining, typical me) was more to the fact that a lot of people have made a lot of posts trying to justify why we should complain to Tribune rather than TiVo. I think they (some, not all) do that to keep from placing the blame on TiVo. If it's TiVo's fault, than to get results they would need to take action against TiVo, including cancellation of the subscription. I think most are probably not willing to do that because they are so hooked on the service.

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by doom1701
What's interesting about the TiVo dynamic is that I think people are more likely to stop watching certain shows or networks, because of a guide issue that they might not be responsible for.

For example, if I want to see Reality Show X on Channel 100, and Channel 100's guide data is always wrong for Reality Show X, I will probably just give up on trying to watch it (or maybe Channel 100 entirely), even though it might be Tribune that is screwing up the data.

Compare that to movie times in newspapers--I might stop getting the newspaper, or stop going to a certain theater, if their times are always wrong. The withdrawl of my business is from the parties that are making the error.

Too true. There are many shows on MTV (especially) that I don't watch because they can't get their guide data right. If it was correct and I didn't get 30 episodes of Rich Girls every week.....I would watch the show.

Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by Frozen Solid
Correct, but my point (which I probably didn't do a good enough job of explaining, typical me) was more to the fact that a lot of people have made a lot of posts trying to justify why we should complain to Tribune rather than TiVo.

People should, of course, complain to TiVo. It wouldn't hurt to also complain to TMS and the TV stations/networks. This thread started with a request for information about how to TMS, so that's what was provided.

Actually, looking through the posts at the start, it looks like this time you, Frozen Solid, were the first one to bring up the issue of complaining to TMS instead of TiVo. :p (Of course, there have been many similar threads in the past, so discussions about complaing to TMS vs. TiVo tend to run together in my head, too.)

Posted by: weymo

Well, thanks everyone. Seems like I lit the fire and walked away on that one.
Since TiVo is a brick without the guide service, they've got us by the balls (boys.) There is really no impetus for the guide data to improve except for one thing...word of mouth...and TiVo really really ought to listen to me here.

Word of mouth has made TiVo. All the product placement on "Sex In The City" won't do any good if people start to hate the thing and tell their friends how it isn't like "magic" any more. The 'product' is plagued with problems to this day, and the 'product' is what they're selling, the whole concept of a 'set it and forget it' digital VCR.

I believe that if TiVo is to succeed, they will listen to us and provide a conduit of feedback so that we can help them make the product better.
It's a cop-out for them to tell us, the subscriber to their required service, that the content is beyond their control. That's bunk!
When a viewer notices a discrepancy or a hole in the guide data, TiVo needs to provide the service members with a way to correct the problem; either by overriding the data, reporting it to a verifiable 'download patch' for the guide, etc. When guide data is freely available on a website, and for whatever reason (blame the network, TMS; what can we do?) Tribune Media Service doesn't push that information downstream, there should be a mechanism to fix it. I just don't accept that I'm going to have to record every showing of "House Rules" on TBS because I don't know which of the four will be the new one that I want. That's just unacceptable.

I'm paying by the month, so I guess I HAVE an option. I can sell my TiVo.

For folks who paid lifetime memberships, there's really nothing that folks can do but constantly complain and hope that things improve.

Posted by: dswallow

quote:
Originally posted by weymo
For folks who paid lifetime memberships, there's really nothing that folks can do but constantly complain and hope that things improve.

No, they can sell their TiVo and recoup most if not all of their lifetime fee in the process.

Posted by: bicker

quote:
Originally posted by Frozen Solid
Correct, but my point (which I probably didn't do a good enough job of explaining, typical me) was more to the fact that a lot of people have made a lot of posts trying to justify why we should complain to Tribune rather than TiVo. I think they (some, not all) do that to keep from placing the blame on TiVo. If it's TiVo's fault, than to get results they would need to take action against TiVo, including cancellation of the subscription. I think most are probably not willing to do that because they are so hooked on the service.

Again, as I said before, because they've evaluated the value provided vs. the price paid, and determined that it is "worth it." Beyond that TiVo is providing what they promised. Not much mileage in complaining there.

Posted by: devdogaz

I'm actually kind of surprised by this thread. I have seen many posts from TiVoDataGuy who does everything in his power to make sure the guide data is correct. I always thought he was the best one to complain to because he would carry more weight with TMS than one of us since he actually works for a complay that pays TMS a boatload of money. Now he obviously can't correct all the info for the networks that refuse to provide it (MTV, VHI, The Daily Show, etc.) but if there are other specific problems, I thought he was the guy to talk to.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Posted by: grecorj

We've had this argument before -- I will repeat what I proposed before: sure TiVo is responsible for their data to a degree, but at the end of the day they have bigger fish to fry than which episode of Seinfeld is or isn't airing at 2:25 am on TBS or whatever.

Tribune of course should take some responsibility, but they don't get paid directly by the consumer, so again, their interest in data discrepancy will only go so far. Plus, they'll blame the networks for providing bad data.

So if you want long term or specific improvements, I think your best bet is to put a bug in someone's ear at the specific network you have a problem with:

http://tvguide.com/tv/showguide/networks/