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Ebay fraud warning!
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Posted by: Cubfan

UPDATE: I finally received a response from my buyer, who has reported that someone stole his checkbook and that he closed his bank account. It's for that reason that Paypal cancelled the original payment (and they made it sound really bad), and his lack of response was from him trying to get everything back in order.

I don't know, call me a sucker, but I believe him. He even offered to overnight a money order to me to replace the payment I lost. Heck, if I were dishonest, I guess I could have been paid twice. :) Seriously, I told him that I'd make sure the payment was returned, and would let him know.

Therefore, I've altered advice #1 below and have taken out the person's name and Ebay ID, as it wouldn't be fair to label him at this point.

-----

I recently sold a Tivo on Ebay. The buyer was a brand new user with no feedback... and I usually don't deal with buyers with no feedback. However, this guy sounded like a real person, and he had already purchased a USB Wireless Adapter in another auction that he said he was anxious to use with the HMO that was included with my unit.

He paid via Paypal instantly, and showed a confirmed address. He even gave me his own UPS account number and had me charge the shipping to him, which I did on UPS.com (though I required an adult signature for delivery).

Several emails went back and forth, and it really appeared that this was a guy new to Ebay who was happy about the good deal he got and was anxious to join the Tivolution... asked several intelligent questions about how to set up his Tivo, for example.

After the item shipped, I sent an email to ask if everything was in order and he replied that he was very happy, had a small problem with the wireless adapter, but that everything was working fine. I then left him positive feedback.

A few days later, Paypal contacted me to inform me that the account used for payment was involved in fraud and that they were removing the funds from my account. I emailed the buyer with no response. Paypal requested documentation, and I qualified for "seller protection" because I did everything right, and the funds were quickly returned. I've emailed the other seller (of the USB wireless adapter) and he told me that the same thing happened to him.

I have two warnings in sharing this story...

1. Be very careful when dealing with new Ebay buyers with no feedback.

2. When selling and using Paypal, make sure to follow the instructions that qualify you for "seller protection"... that is, make sure to send to a confirmed address, require a signature that can be documented, and send via a carrier that includes a tracking number and can confirm shipment. Keep all your correspondence, as well.

I do wonder if I should warn Tivo that fraud was involved in the selling of my Tivo, but there's always the chance that this guy resold the unit to an innocent person who has now activated it. I will be contacting Ebay just in case Paypal hasn't already done so.

It's my second negative experience on Ebay because I've been so careful up to now. The first was leaving negative feedback to a non-paying bidder who left negative feedback in retaliation (my only bad mark in a good over-all feedback rating). And because I followed the rules, this one ended well.

One can only hope that justice will be served in the end. Just be careful out there, guys, and never let someone con you into a position where you're not protected.

Cubfan

Posted by: Rcrew

Interesting, I was going to put up an EBay/Pay Pal thread myself this morning.

Mine is only for a $31 XBox Game that closed yesterday, but the warning flags are up for me.

The winner of my auction, 1 day old Ebay account, zero feedbacks, paid using Pay Pal, using a credit card.

I had to up grade my Pay Pal account to premium to accept the payment, no big deal $1.36 fee.

He has a confirmed mailing address, and I read through the Seller Protection to ensure I followed all the steps.

All that is just a little tickle. What's nagging me is that although I've sent 3 e-mails to this person, the last one saying "Hey, this is the shipping address I have, can you please confirm it?", I haven't received any e-mail responses.

I promised to ship within one day of payment. That would be today. But I would feel more comfortable if I'd had at least one e-mail response.

I also promised Priority Mail, but don't know which USPS services will meet the requirements for Seller Protection, and how much that's going to add to my shipping costs.

Posted by: Cubfan

I don't think USPS can confirm shipping (with a signature) unless you register it, which is costly. Your situation sounds fishy to me, so you may want to check with Paypal. Then again, your risk is just over $30... and mine was well over $200. I believe you can also pay a little more and get "insurance" with Paypal, which might be the way to go.

It would be a shame if we ended up hurting people just starting on Ebay because of the many scammers out there.

Posted by: jrock

I have been using paypal for years, I have a business premier account with a 100 rating. I provide a hosting service and use paypal as my main billing method. Since hosting is not something you ship it is not covered under the Seller Protection and over the last few years I have had several of these fraud complaints and have talked with Paypal as well as the customers. All the fraud complain email means is the person contacted there credit card company and said they did not make the charge, it doesn't mean a stolen card was used, you can get a scum bag that will go over there credit limit or something and try to say they didn't order this and the credit card company will report it to paypal and as soon as paypal gets anything like that from the credit card company they will take the funds back and investigate. Usually the only way to fix it is to provide the tracking number and then they will give you your funds back. So if you do it correctly selling on ebay you should be safe but usually I end up getting taken for the ride and only once did they find in my favor. Luckily my hosting services are only $10 - $20 although once they took back 3 months on someones account and I wasn't very happy with that. I have had a lot of cases with kids ordering and using there parents cards then the parents getting the bill and calling in and getting reversed also.

-Joe

Posted by: PHANTOM

For paypal - anything under $250 just needs delivery confirmation number which is free when you use USPS online. over the amount you need to just add a signature confirmation for $1.30. Other than that just make sure you send to only confirmed addresses and you will generally be safe. I use Paypal all the time and have only ever run into a few problems, but when I did I was covered because I followed the rules.

Posted by: Dan203

This is the kind of stuff that makes buying things off e-bay hard for people like me who arn't regular buyers. Over the past couple years I've had at least three bids I've placed canceled due to lack of feedback, and it's things like this that force sellers to do that. :(

Dan

Posted by: musicforme

How long did it take for PayPal to ask for the money back from you?

I shipped a college textbook earlier this week from an auction of mine on Ebay. The person that paid me via PayPal has an unconfirmed address. I'm wondering how long should I wait before considering the sale to be legit.

Posted by: FatherTed

Yes, this has been am odd PayPal season for me as well. To try to keep things as easy and safe as possible this holiday season I specified two things in all my auctions: No non-US bidders and, if paying by PayPal the shipping address must be confirmed in their system. That way I knew I wouldn't have any problems meeting the requirements of the Seller Protection Plan. I had 6 auctions ending 10 days before Christmas. On one of the auctions I had one person email me on a daily basis with various questions about the item. I answered each one promptly and, sure enough, the next day there's be something else. Answer, ask, answer, ask, answer grrrrrrrrrrr. Finally it was within about 12 hours of the auction close and this person put in a bid on the item. Fine. Then yet another email, "I don't have a confirmed shipping address and I won't go through PayPal's requirements to do it but if I win I'll be paying with PayPal. You'll send it right out as soon as I win, right?" :rolleyes: This turned into 5 email exchanges for the next 12 hours that I will not accept a non-confirmed PayPal address and this person arguing with me about why I should because I can trust them (Feedback rating 2 account 1 month old). I finally said I would not be accepting their bid, cancelled it and placed them on the blocked bidder list.

Of those 6 auction winners I had two Canadian bidders and three people who didn't have their shipping addresses confirmed. One of those people I emailed 6 times in the 7 days following the close (they did an immediate PayPal payment but with no email contact). I repeatedly asked them to go through the PayPal address confirmation system. The final email warned them if they didn't confirm the shipping address within 24 hours I'd cancel their payment and it would be returned to them. Nothing. The next day came and still nothing. We're now at the Monday before Christmas and I cancelled their payment sending it back to them.

I suddenly get a frantic email that their 'computer was down' and they didn't get my emails. Gosh, that's funny. They've been bidding on items the whole week leading up to the payment cancellation. I told them I'd ship that day by priority mail if a confirmed address payment was received that day. I got it, confirmed too, within the hour and I shipped a couple hours later. Amazingly they got it on Christmas eve.

One other loopey person who didn't have a confirmed address got an email from me about holding the shipment until they confirmed the address using the PayPal confirmation system. Two days later I get an email with their shipping address written out (same as the unconfirmed address in the payment) and one line, "Here is my address. I am confirming it. Ship my package today." I had to email back that they definitely weren't getting how this whole things works (even though there were instructions in previous email about how to confirm an address on the PayPal system.)

Sometimes buyers just amaze me. One of the Canadian bidders bid on an item (it was used but in excellent condition) but this item can be easily purchased from online or local retailers for about $35. I was stunned (and pretty confused) as I watched the bidding. A bidding war ensued and the final price ended up being $96! For that kind of profit I was happy to use a signature shipping method into Canada. :)

Posted by: Cubfan

quote:
Originally posted by FatherTed
A bidding war ensued and the final price ended up being $96! For that kind of profit I was happy to use a signature shipping method into Canada. :)

Don't ya just love it when that happens? I can't tell you how many times I've actually sold products for more than I paid for them on Ebay... sometimes after using the product for years.

Heck, I've sold things that wouldn't sell at my garage sale for $2 and then listed Ebay only to see the price soar to $75 or so. My favorite was a toy that I bought for 25 cents at my wife's women's club rummage sale (that she and her friends made fun of me for buying) and found that there was a collector's market for it. I sold it on Ebay and netted $116 for my little nostalgic purchase of a Major Matt Mason that I used to play with as a kid!

Anyway, my story now has a happy ending and I've edited my original post. And I resisted any smart-remark about Canadians when I read your story. :)

Posted by: susanandmark

eBay is an interesting place. I've sold quite a few things over the years and, after being taken more than once, had to impose a few restrictions on buyers for my own protection, including not accepting mailed payments. (Too many just went "missing" in the mail and once I got negative feedback from a person who said I "stole" their money order, though they could offer no proof of the money order's existence, let alone that it had been cashed.) Despite my VERY clearly, and nicely, stated accepted payment terms (listed, confusingly apparently, under "Payment Information" in every auction), I consistently get very p.o'ed people annoyed that I won't accept a personal check, or even mailed cash (oh yeah, that's a good idea). I've even had negative feedback left for me because of it accusing me of "fraud" for not accepting checks (huh?).

eBay can be wonderful, or horrible, and is usually a little bit of both for buyers and sellers alike.

Posted by: Cubfan

Gosh, Susan... compared to your stories, I've been really lucky. Never had anything even close to that happening to me. What kinds of stuff are you selling, anyway? :)

Posted by: susanandmark

I've sold a little bit of everything on eBay over the years (starting in '98 or '99). Anyway, not to over-dramatize, but I just happened to read the "FatherTed" post and it sounded very familiar. All in all, I've had a very small percentage of problems. I'd say about 25 bad experiences--from minor annoyances to big-time problems--in 850+ transactions.