TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like
Google.
Pages:1
What's Tivo-To-Go Worth?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: PhilCase
Just curious what people think. Making the assumption that Tivo-To-Go happens to be as follows:
<1> Allows PC play of TIVO files with Dongle.
<2> Does allow for burning content to a DVD that can then be played in a standard (non-PC) DVD player.
<3> Does NOT allow for TIVO box retreival of LAN stored content. (Ergo your Server doesn't get to serve as a TIVO NAS.)
The question is what would this upgrade to HMO be worth to you?
Posted by: OLdDog
To me it is worth NOTHING. Even less that nothing as it detracts from what I believe is needed features.
If TiVo wants to add value things like soft padding and a not in wish lists would be better as they make TiVo better for mos all users, not just a select few that go for the golly-gee features.
Tivo-To-Go is just more fluff like HMO that only a very few teckies will be able to use.
Posted by: JPriller
I'm more or less with OLdDog - when they announced HMO a couple years ago my reaction was "WTF?", and my opinion hasn't changed.
Remote programming is nice, and show-sharing between units in the home is nice, but those should be built into the base software or available as cheap upgrades, and not bundled in with an expensive add-on package that includes such useless fluff as viewing image files from my PC. Come on - what's next, Karaoke?
That said, it would be nice to occasionally burn a show to DVD or fill up a laptop with shows to watch while traveling on business. But if I have to buy HMO and all it's fluff to be able to buy that ability, they can forget it.
Posted by: timdthomas
Karaoke? Don't give them any ideas!
I concur. I want more features in the base software, not necessarily so I can get freebies, but so TiVo doesn't become obsoleted by newer companies. If so, no big deal. I love my TiVo, but I don't have any intimate feelings to it. If something better came along, I'd dump my TiVo once it has served its time.
Posted by: MighTiVo
Do you include the assumption that it includes a full featured DVD authoring program?
Posted by: samo
quote:
I'm more or less with OLdDog - when they announced HMO a couple years ago my reaction was "WTF?", and my opinion hasn't changed.
Same here. SA DVD recorder does "to go" archiving trick for me now and I see no reason to watch TV on my computers.
Posted by: pkscout
I voted a price that basically only includes the USB key. I'm figuring your going to have to buy myDVD and download a plugin to do the TiVo stuff, so that will run around $70 or so. I saw in another thread that Mac support may, in fact, be coming, so I hope they sell the key separate from the DVD tools so that I can use iDVD (assuming that's the software they tie into) - which comes with the machine for free - instead of having to pay for a Windows tool I can't use.
Posted by: Cletus
Same as the HMO to me - zero.
Posted by: timmetro69
quote:
Originally posted by pkscout
I voted a price that basically only includes the USB key. I'm figuring your going to have to buy myDVD and download a plugin to do the TiVo stuff, so that will run around $70 or so. I saw in another thread that Mac support may, in fact, be coming, so I hope they sell the key separate from the DVD tools so that I can use iDVD (assuming that's the software they tie into) - which comes with the machine for free - instead of having to pay for a Windows tool I can't use.
A Tivo rep at CES told me that the bundle would include the USB security key and MyDVD together. I asked him about price, which he wasn't sure of. He did say it would be "very reasonably priced".
Posted by: mtmra70
price?! They should add it as a "feature" of HMO and not charge for it period. I was *thinking* about getting HMO since I thought this was an add-on for it, but since its seperate and has a cost TiVo wont see any of my money for it.
Posted by: timmetro69
quote:
Originally posted by mtmra70
price?! They should add it as a "feature" of HMO and not charge for it period. I was *thinking* about getting HMO since I thought this was an add-on for it, but since its seperate and has a cost TiVo wont see any of my money for it.
Why should they provide it for free? It's a hardware and 3rd-party software combo? If you're not willing to pay for it, then don't buy it when it comes out. Simple as that.
Posted by: MediaLivingRoom
When add to the cost of HMO as a base and one is forced to install USB Dongle. I would feel better with an access code tied to your account, then you can have any system you approve for decoding.
Posted by: JasonD
I think it's cool that they will allow you to archive to DVD. I'll definately go for it when it comes out.
Jason
Posted by: pgogborn
quote:
Originally posted by timmetro69
A Tivo rep at CES told me that the bundle would include the USB security key and MyDVD together. I asked him about price, which he wasn't sure of. He did say it would be "very reasonably priced".
As opposed to saying, "that the price will be unreasonably high"?
Posted by: pgogborn
quote:
Originally posted by timmetro69
Why should they provide it for free?
As a way of ensuring that in the long term, the basic TiVo product stays ahead of the competition.
I am only intending that the TiVo end of the equation should be free, allowing any supplier of DVD burners to link to it. The customer will benefit from having a choice if DVD burning suites and it will make the TiVo a more likely buy for people who prefer one burning suite over another.
Posted by: mtmra70
quote:
Originally posted by timmetro69
Why should they provide it for free? It's a hardware and 3rd-party software combo? If you're not willing to pay for it, then don't buy it when it comes out. Simple as that.
Well the article I read said it was an addition to HMO, so I thought you needed HMO to have TiVo to go, but maybe they were saying its another add-on like HMO. :confused:
Posted by: CrispyCritter
quote:
Originally posted by pgogborn
As a way of ensuring that in the long term, the basic TiVo product stays ahead of the competition.
But the problem at the moment is not that TiVo is losing on features; it's that TiVo is losing on price.
They have to keep their entry TiVo price as low as possible to compete against the subsidized cable DVR's that are coming out. Keeping the base price low, and having value-added packages seems like the only way TiVo can possibly make a profit some day.
Posted by: pkscout
quote:
Originally posted by mtmra70
Well the article I read said it was an addition to HMO, so I thought you needed HMO to have TiVo to go, but maybe they were saying its another add-on like HMO. :confused:
I've been working under the assumption that it is an extension to HMO but that you have to purchase the USB dongle and software. It's kind of like music and photo streaming. It's part of HMO, but you have to own certain hardware/software for it to work. I really didn't expect TiVo to send me a computer when I bought HMO for $99. :D
Posted by: iamcds1
It's worth nothing to me. I have a dvd burner hooked to my Tivo already. I don't have to worry about all those copy protection things and compatibility issues that always seem to creep up.
Posted by: christopher710
The only two features of the HMO/Tivo to Go package that interest me are the remote scheduling and burn to dvd option. I don't use the MP3 format for my music and I can display pictures by plugging my camera into my system which I have done on only very few occations. I think remote scheduling and burn to dvd should be free.
Posted by: geoman47
For me, TiVo To Go sounds great. I have pondered a 2nd TiVo, too expensive since no discount for 2nd lifetime sub. Pondered Pioneer DVD, way too expensive for me. Pondered stand alone DVD recorder, a bit too expensive for now.
I already have HMO because my wife loves MP3s and the pictures. I like the remote scheduling. In 2002, I burned my entire CD collection to MP3s. Somebody mentioned that they can look at their pictures from their digital camera on TV, but hardly do. We were the same way before HMO. Its because it’s a pain (finding cords, etc.) and you can only look at pictures currently on the camera. Just displaying from my computer HD (a la HMO) is so much easier when a family member or friend comes over.
And we need a new computer later this year, and I was planning on getting a DVD burner with it anyway, as they are much cheaper than stand alone DVD burners. And now, we’ll able to watch TiVo in any room with DVD player or on the road.
Also, I travel 1 week a month. Having a few favorite shows on the laptop while I travel will be better than dealing with watching normal live TV in a hotel room somewhere. But if TiVo to go is more than $100, then I may just go with stand alone DVD recorder. If its less than $50, I’ll buy it quickly. $50-100, I’ll wait and make sure its what I want.
Posted by: kupe
quote:
Originally posted by PhilCase
The question is what would this upgrade to HMO be worth to you?
Not one nickle.
And let me say further that development resources used for Tivo-to-go damn-well-better NOT have detracted one second from time that should have been spent addressing the many long-standing feature requests we've all been posting here for the past year.
Such as AAC support, USB 2.0 support, 802.11g adapter support, music to accompany slideshows, and on and on.
kupe
Posted by: pgogborn
quote:
Originally posted by geoman47
And we need a new computer later this year, and I was planning on getting a DVD burner with it anyway
I seem to recall some DVD burners come bundled with Sonic Solution's MyDVD and CinePlayer and of course, some people buy it independently.
If a TiVo owner already has MyDVD and CinePlayer, which are at the PC heart of TiVoToGo, will they be offered a discount went purchasing TiVoToGo?
Posted by: pgogborn
quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
They have to keep their entry TiVo price as low as possible to compete against the subsidized cable DVR's that are coming out. Keeping the base price low, and having value-added packages seems like the only way TiVo can possibly make a profit some day.
They could try turning to markets where they do not have to compete against subsidized cable.
I am currently posting from the UK - there is a TiVo Service in operation but at the moment no new TiVos being manufactured.
Posted by: mikestanley
quote:
Originally posted by kupe
Not one nickle.
And let me say further that development resources used for Tivo-to-go damn-well-better NOT have detracted one second from time that should have been spent addressing the many long-standing feature requests we've all been posting here for the past year.
Such as AAC support, USB 2.0 support, 802.11g adapter support, music to accompany slideshows, and on and on.
First, how would you ever be able to prove that it damn-well-did detract one second from time that should have been spent on features you want?
Second, even if you could prove that it had - what are you going to do about it?
Posted by: CrispyCritter
quote:
Originally posted by kupe
Not one nickle.
And let me say further that development resources used for Tivo-to-go damn-well-better NOT have detracted one second from time that should have been spent addressing the many long-standing feature requests we've all been posting here for the past year.
Such as AAC support, USB 2.0 support, 802.11g adapter support, music to accompany slideshows, and on and on.
Very amusing message, thank you!
[To fully understand why it's amusing, you would have had to be here a year ago, as exactly the same complaints in almost the same words were constantly being made about HMO!]
Posted by: phone1
Add my voice to those who think TiVo's missing the boat by spending all their time and energy developing high GAF* features, while ignoring improvements that need to be made to the basic UI. The suggestions forum is full of refinements that are way past due for implementation. Hey TiVo - it's a Digital Video RECORDER! Get it? People want it to RECORD, not check their email or some other gee-whiz function. I could be wrong, but last time I checked, Joe Six Pack wasn't wearing a propeller beanie. :rolleyes:
*Geek Approval Factor
Posted by: devdogaz
I agree that TiVo needs to spend more time upgrading the basic feature set and less on developing new add ons. However, I understand that the add ons provide additional revenue while upgrades to the basic software do not.
Up until now, I have said that I will not upgrade from my Series 1 to a S2 until they add some more features to the software that are really worth upgrading for (HMO and folders are not enough). I would like to see negative/soft padding, better conflict resolution, batch play/save, FSI, etc. However, this option to burn to DVD may be enough to get me to upgrade. Assuming the price of this package is under $100, it would be a much better solution than a SA DVD recorder or one of the integrated TiVo/DVD-R products. If HMO=$99, DVD Burner for PC=~$100, and USB Dongle/software=~$75 then that combined price is still less than the cheapest SA DVD recorders and would allow for DVDs that didn't get converted back to analog.
Having said that, I still think TiVo needs to devote a little more time to upgrading the software. Add in the features people want (see Suggestion Avenue) and people will buy your systems. You would see so many people upgrade to S2 from S1 and many of those S1s would be sold to new customers who otherwise may not have ever gotten a TiVo.
Posted by: ZeoTiVo
if it makes my TiVo more media server like then I would pay more. by that I mean playing video off my network - and not just a video file but my PC screen as a TV out from my PC or something to that effect.
that way I can get to my server without a monitor and work it with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Also, sometimes for family game night we put the PC up on the TV and paly shockwave games like Polar Bowl. So if it is only pull video off and burn then that is woth only 20 to me as I can just put a bigger hard drive in the TiVo. Playing shows on my laptop then discarding shows is all I am after from the togo part.
PS no game console until all my kids have cetrain level of reading skills and have a habit of playing outside while fueling their own virtual reality by exercising their own imagination. PC games fills the void until next gen of platforms when my kids will be ready to use them wisely.
Posted by: smak
To me, having the ability to watch everything stored on all my tivo's in a different room, without having to buy a tivo or service is well worth it.
Theoretically this would do the same job as the Pioneer Tivo at around 25% of the price.
Of course you'd have to own a PC, and a DVD Burner, but still.
-smak-
Posted by: d_anders
I'm a little confused. From reading other posts and the newsreleases, I assumed that TiVoToGo was going to be an added feature to HMO (to make HMO even more compelling).
So for price, I would say, $0, for those who purchase HMO.
Now, for the cost of a dongle and the software combo, I'm willing to pay a reasonable fee to cover the cost of that feature and a cut to Sonic, so I would say $29-$39.
Am I off on this one?
Or is this feature really going to provide full TiVo (playback) functionality on my pc/laptop?
So if TiVo argues it's just like getting another license of HMO for my household, for $50, that's linked to the serial# of my purchased dongle, I guess I could understand that a little more, but it then should include the actual dongle and special software with the price (it's not the same as adding another TiVo that records; it's only a playback feature).
Posted by: pkscout
quote:
Originally posted by d_anders
I'm a little confused. From reading other posts and the newsreleases, I assumed that TiVoToGo was going to be an added feature to HMO (to make HMO even more compelling).
So for price, I would say, $0, for those who purchase HMO.
Now, for the cost of a dongle and the software combo, I'm willing to pay a reasonable fee to cover the cost of that feature and a cut to Sonic, so I would say $29-$39.
Now for those who don't have HMO, obviously this would mean $99 + the cost of the dongle/enhanced mydvd software.
Am I off on this one?
That's kind of what I've been figuring too. I'd like to think that $99 investment I made would grow. If they make TiVo-To-Go a totally separate option, then I'd really like to see them go totally ala carte (i.e. be able to buy music streaming, photo streaming, and remote scheduling separately).
Posted by: d_anders
Yeah, I always thought they should make HMO ala carte too, but since they offer reduced pricing on additional units, pricing would be more complicated to handle too.
Personally, I think they should offer "remote" scheduling free as part of the base (Plus) service to incent more folks to "home network" their TiVo's. It saves TiVo money in UUNET dial-up charges when folks move away from dial-up, and it prepares more people to be "ready" for the more home network oriented HMO feature set.
Posted by: Dan203
If I had to guess I'd say adding TiVo-To-Go to a computer will cost the same as adding HMO to a TiVo. (i.e. $49) However it will require HMO on the TiVo(s) you want to transfer shows from, so that is at least another $99 for those who don't already have HMO. (plus $49 per unit for those with multiple TiVos)
Dan
Posted by: Peter000
quote:
Originally posted by kupe
And let me say further that development resources used for Tivo-to-go damn-well-better NOT have detracted one second from time that should have been spent addressing the many long-standing feature requests we've all been posting here for the past year.
Such as AAC support, USB 2.0 support, 802.11g adapter support, music to accompany slideshows, and on and on.
Um... hasn't digital extraction of programming been near the top of the list of requests, not to mention one of the main reasons people are hacking TiVo since the machine came out? I think this is DIRECTLY addressing a high priority request.
ToGo IMO is going to be an amazing feature, assuming it works as promised. I'd get it in a second, at twice what you would pay for it! ;) Seriously, I think it's worth more than most others. And it is a good reason for USB 2.0 support, to speed up the transfers. My suspicion is they'll implement that about the same time. Or... maybe as part of this package?
Posted by: Fustanella
Nothing. I feel the same way about HMO as well. Neither has any feature that is of any interest to me. I would have said "remote scheduling" in the past but I have things the way I want now and can't see that as being a major concern going forward.
Posted by: Durfman
I bought HMO when it was first released, and I'm actually pretty disappointed in it. It's not particularly useful. I use the picture viewing very rarely. The music streaming works so poorly that you can't really use it because after a few songs its connection is always interrupted.
However, this feature sounds great. It sounds like an Add-On to HMO, because you need HMO to connect TiVo to your network. I will probably buy TiVo-To-Go as soon as it comes out and will actually use it. The only thing that makes me nervous is that I believe TiVo will over-charge for the software because they can and we will pay for it, just like HMO.
Hopefully the MyDVD program has improved in the past year or so.
Posted by: ElPuerco
I'm not sure. Assuming that I can watch a recorded program on my PC while someone else is watching a recorded show or live TV in the living room, I think it could be very cool and worth $100. I have a season premiere of Stargate SG-1 waiting in the living room because someone else has "needed" that TV almost constantly since Friday. (Wife's surgery recovery, and she's not into SG-1.) If I could (easily, legally, etc.) move that over to my PC or laptop while she carries on with her shows, I'd love to.
Posted by: Zathrus
quote:
Originally posted by Durfman
The music streaming works so poorly that you can't really use it because after a few songs its connection is always interrupted.
Have you tried getting help in the HMO section here? The problem is not with HMO -- it's with your network. I stream music for hours at a time with absolutely no issues, as do most people.
Posted by: bootedbear
Not for me thanks! I refuse to support any system that requires a hardware dongle.
Not only are they a bother and unreliable, it's non-scalable. What if every system started requiring such a dongle? I'd just love having to swap my TiVo dongle out for my Photoshop dongle, and then swap that out for the BBEdit dongle....
Posted by: jautor
quote:
Originally posted by bootedbear
Not for me thanks! I refuse to support any system that requires a hardware dongle.
Not only are they a bother and unreliable, it's non-scalable. What if every system started requiring such a dongle? I'd just love having to swap my TiVo dongle out for my Photoshop dongle, and then swap that out for the BBEdit dongle....
But the dongle is much smaller and easier to carry around than the alternatives - a stack of DVD-R's... I'd just love having to swap my Simpsons DVD-R out for my West Wing DVD-R, and then swap that out for the Sopranos DVD-R.
Well, the security keys will probably be built into your PC in the next few years, and of course, everybody seems to hate the idea that "they" could tie a software license to your machine...
I think the TiVoToGo idea is great, and I completely understand their need for the security key. Would I prefer that it didn't have one? Sure. I'll bet TiVo would to!
Jeff
Posted by: vman41
quote:
Originally posted by bootedbear
Not only are they a bother and unreliable, it's non-scalable. What if every system started requiring such a dongle? I'd just love having to swap my TiVo dongle out for my Photoshop dongle, and then swap that out for the BBEdit dongle....
With sufficient hubs, USB is supposed to handle somewhere over 100 devices isn't it? I don't swapping is that big an issue.
I wonder if someone could make a virtual USB hub that makes the USB devices on another PC appear to be attached to this PC via the network?
Posted by: Zathrus
quote:
I'd just love having to swap my TiVo dongle out for my Photoshop dongle, and then swap that out for the BBEdit dongle....
These are not the dongles of yesteryear. USB can support up to 127 devices. You do not have to unplug the other devices in order to make use of any other one.
At least this will be portably between machines... unlike software based keys. Go ahead -- download some DRMd software (music or movie), back it up to CD/DVD, then reformat your box (or have it crash). Good luck getting that DRMd software to ever work again.
Posted by: ZeoTiVo
ok , here is a product I just ran across that seems to have no security concern and records TV direct to your PC hard drive via ethernet in lots of formats all ready for file sharing. and it will stream them back in to play on your TV.
quote:
from http://www.prismiq.com/press/121503b.asp
Taking its cue from its predecessor, the award-winning PRISMIQ MediaPlayer, the PRISMIQ MediaPlayer/Recorder can also transport PC media to the TV and stereo. The MP/R can play MP3/WMA/WAV audio files, play MPEG-1/2/4/AVI/Motion-JPEG/WMV/Real PC video files, and display digital photos and slideshows. The MP/R can support all computers on the home network simultaneously.
A diskless DVR for 300$ and no monthly fee (uses TVguide data or something like that) It says it can schedule recordings but no other word on how that works.
so this would say to me about TiVoToGo
1. loose the security key, activate TiVoToGo just like HMO instead.
2. Stream video back in, if only MPEG2
3. keep it at $50 after buying HMO first.
PS notice it does not support AAC in any format either.
Posted by: BoyScout
This will be AWSOME!
The TiVo To Go coupled with a Prismiq Media Player is just the ticket!
True, the Prismiq MPR will eventually have DVR capabilities, but its interface pales in comparison with TiVo
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
ok , here is a product I just ran across that seems to have no security concern and records TV direct to your PC hard drive via ethernet in lots of formats all ready for file sharing. and it will stream them back in to play on your TV.
A diskless DVR for 300$ and no monthly fee (uses TVguide data or something like that) It says it can schedule recordings but no other word on how that works.
so this would say to me about TiVoToGo
1. loose the security key, activate TiVoToGo just like HMO instead.
2. Stream video back in, if only MPEG2
3. keep it at $50 after buying HMO first.
There are plenty of products out there that can record TV directly to your PC. TiVo isn't doing this because it has to, it's doing it because it's the best way to side step a lawsuit AND to appease it's partners. (i.e. NBC, HBO, etc...) Plus with a key system like this it brings new hope to the possibility that DirecTV will let down their guard and allow the same functionality with their units. (there is no chance in hell they'd allow it if the video was sent in a raw, unencrypted, format)
Dan
Posted by: ZeoTiVo
quote:
Originally posted by BoyScout
This will be AWSOME!
The TiVo To Go coupled with a Prismiq Media Player is just the ticket!
True, the Prismiq MPR will eventually have DVR capabilities, but its interface pales in comparison with TiVo
but only if the files TiVo to go makes on your PC can be streamed by the Prismiq. (without having to do a couple of steps in between)
so if this new device can (I have not completely confirmed this) record MPEG to you PC that can be played anywhere, then TiVo should feel free to do the same, I would think.
Posted by: ZeoTiVo
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
There are plenty of products out there that can record TV directly to your PC. TiVo isn't doing this because it has to, it's doing it because it's the best way to side step a lawsuit AND to appease it's partners. (i.e. NBC, HBO, etc...) Plus with a key system like this it brings new hope to the possibility that DirecTV will let down their guard and allow the same functionality with their units. (there is no chance in hell they'd allow it if the video was sent in a raw, unencrypted, format)
Dan
yes there are products, (I have an ATI card in my PC) but not as easy to use as a TiVo until now. NOTE: I do not think anything beats SP and WL on a TiVo - no flames -- I mean with a remote and no knowledge of what is actually going on in the plumbing) Now any person, even a luddite, can share TV shows. TiVoToGo makes this no more accessible, really. now that I have read about another easy to use product I have gone back round to TiVo getting a backbone and telling its partners not to hamstring its new products
with a similar product out there that can do what is wanted and with no monthly fee , TiVoToGo had better start matching the competition stride for stride if it wants to generate revenue.
if so then I will happily buy TiVoToGo for $50 (I do not need all the other formats myself) and also keep paying the 13$ for the guide data interfaced to a really nice scheduler (that they hopefully put out some improvements on to make it worth subscription:D )
Posted by: pgogborn
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
DirecTV will let down their guard and allow the same functionality with their units. (there is no chance in hell they'd allow it if the video was sent in a raw, unencrypted, format)
Unless there is a major change of philosophy at News Corp, fat chance of them allowing play back of the first generation digital stream on any box not connected to and receiving a satellite signal.
Incidentally, they will introduce an encryption system that will not be cracked while in its operational life.
Posted by: jdl
I agree with Durfman, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't buy HMO. Since I did, I'm not inclined to pay a whole lot more for this additional functionality. Heck, I'm debating if I want to wait until Q4 or whenever it comes out, or look to some other solution instead. I archive to DVD now through the analog ports and have the process down, but it would be nice to do it without the A/D conversion and save some time.
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by pgogborn
Unless there is a major change of philosophy at News Corp, fat chance of them allowing play back of the first generation digital stream on any box not connected to and receiving a satellite signal.
They allow you to record a "first generation digital stream" to DVHS. And I'm pretty sure there are ways to get the stream off the DVHS tapes and onto a PC.
This would be no less secure. In fact it would probably be more secure since it would use a hardware based encryption scheme that is unlikely to be broken.
Dan
Posted by: pgogborn
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
They allow you to record a "first generation digital stream" to DVHS. And I'm pretty sure there are ways to get the stream off the DVHS tapes and onto a PC.
The philosophy I was talking about is their announcement that they will crack down on piracy by improving the encryption that DirecTV used. Unfortunately, I can no longer track down a source for this announcement, but I seem to recall that they said that they would be using NDC to do so.
The CEO of NDS, Abe Peled, certainly seems to anticipate NDS becoming involved and seems to be saying the Sky model in Europe will be a model. In reply to the question "What changes would you make to DirecTV?" He said. " Well, I don't think it's appropriate to comment at this point. But, suffice it to say, if you look at the example of Sky Italia, what News Corp. said we would do in order to fix Telepiu and make it a successful platform is that we would use NDS technology to eliminate piracy and that we would use NDS technology to introduce a set of features that would emulate Sky's success in driving penetration and reducing churn. It's that simple. I would think that our approach to DirecTV should be similar. " >
http://www.itvt.com/abepeled03.html
If the NDS/Sky model in Europe is indeed introduced to DirecTV, expect something like this:
NDC VideoGuard encryption. A DVR that will only allow play-back of a recording while a subscribers account is active and it is receiving a satellite signal. You will not be able to transfer the original digital stream to another box and play it back.
Posted by: ufo4sale
It's worth whatever TiVo tells us it's worth.:)
Posted by: NFLnut
quote:
Originally posted by JPriller
I'm more or less with OLdDog - when they announced HMO a couple years ago my reaction was "WTF?", and my opinion hasn't changed.
I still can't to this day work up ANY excitement for HMO! I can't even figure out why I would want a Series 2! My Series 1 does everyone I bought TiVo to do, and I *DO NOT* have ANY desire to store pictures or music on TiVo. IMO there are other devices that do that (sorry my TiVo-buddies) more elegantly. As to scheduling shows over the internet, yeah that would be cool, but there are "ways" to do that without HMO. :eek:
Now, give me a affordable little device that will allow me to carry shows on the road and you can sign me up.
Posted by: Fustanella
Me either. I had HMO-like features throughout my house before HMO came along. Why should I retrofit? :)
Posted by: NFLnut
quote:
Originally posted by pgogborn The philosophy I was talking about is their announcement that they will crack down on piracy by improving the encryption that DirecTV used.
It's amazing that these idiots refer to what we all call "time-shifting" as piracy! Maybe they should take a coupla seconds and read the Supreme Court docs over the years regarding this practice.
I wonder what ol' Jamie Kellner is up to these days? Hey Jamie! I'm STILL skipping ALL of the commercials, and thus I am STILL "stealing" programming. 'Hope the job search on Monster.com is going well!
Posted by: samo
quote:
Now, give me a affordable little device that will allow me to carry shows on the road and you can sign me up.
You may want to consider this GoVideo device
Posted by: jdthompson95
I would gladly pay $100. However I travel a lot and like to watch shows on my laptop in airports and planes. Right now I use snapstream software and I find it problematic. I am hoping for a better experience with TiVo to go
Posted by: PhilCase
quote:
Originally posted by ufo4sale
It's worth whatever TiVo tells us it's worth.:)
Hardly. If Tivo said it was worth $1 mil, you know they would never sell the first copy. Tivo doesn't establish "worth".
Based on the data suggested by this poll...
It appears that 70% of users indicate that at a price of $51 or more they would not purchase Tivo-To-Go. (Also, keep in mind that users here represent an unusually receptive demographic to Tivo add-ons.)
Obviously this kind of data is useful to Tivo in structuring marketing efforts.
Posted by: Dajad
Too bad the poll doesn't include $0, because I wouldn't use it under any circumstances -- even if they gave it to me for free!!!
...Dale
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
Too bad the poll doesn't include $0, because I wouldn't use it under any circumstances -- even if they gave it to me for free!!!
Why? That opposed to USB dongles?
Dan
Posted by: Dajad
No, I can't fathom a time I'd ever want to go through the hassle of copying shows onto DVDs that can only be played back by machines with TiVo dongles. I watch TV in one place - my living room. What the heck do I need to copy things onto DVD for? If I wanted to watch a DVD on a plane (hardly - I'm more a book reader) I'd rent a DVD from Blockbuster LONG before I'd go through the pain of recording TV shows onto a DVD! Ugh!
I don't copy shows from TiVo now onto VHS, the ability to record onto DVD hold's no additional appeal. And, frankly, I don't see why it does for others - with the exception of parents recording shows on DVDs to babysit their kiddies while travelling - that, at least, makes some sense to me.
...Dale
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
No, I can't fathom a time I'd ever want to go through the hassle of copying shows onto DVDs that can only be played back by machines with TiVo dongles.
You're misinformed. Once the show is copied to DVD it can be played back on any DVD player, NOT just the PC with the dongle. The raw MPEG file on the PCs hard drive is the only thing that requires the dongle to play.
Personally I don't think I will use it that much, but I still think it will be nice to have for making copies of shows for friends/family and for making a copy of the occasional movie.
Dan
Posted by: smak
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
I don't copy shows from TiVo now onto VHS, the ability to record onto DVD hold's no additional appeal. And, frankly, I don't see why it does for others - with the exception of parents recording shows on DVDs to babysit their kiddies while travelling - that, at least, makes some sense to me.
...Dale
Have you looked at the DVD market lately? TV shows on DVD's are gigantic. So gigantic that one show (family guy) may make it back on to network TV because of huge DVD sales.
You may not see the appeal, but millions of people do.
-smak-
Posted by: kitsap
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
If I wanted to watch a DVD on a plane (hardly - I'm more a book reader) I'd rent a DVD from Blockbuster LONG before I'd go through the pain of recording TV shows onto a DVD! Ugh!
That's one of the benefits of TivoToGo ... at least if you have a laptop computer. You don't need a DVD anymore. You just transfer the Tivo programming directly to your laptop for plane viewing, from its hard drive.
No "DVD pain" ... less battery drain ... while on the plane! (Pony, if you use this, I'll expect a royalty check.)
Posted by: Fustanella
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
The raw MPEG file on the PCs hard drive is the only thing that requires the dongle to play.
Does the "raw MPEG" format have DRM built-in?
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by Fustanella
Does the "raw MPEG" format have DRM built-in?
No, but any file format can be encrypted to prevent general access. For example if you take an encrypted MPEG file and try to play it in Windows Media Player it will simply error out saying it's an invalid format. Take the same file and play it in Sonic Cinepalyer and it knows that it's a TiVo stream and decrypts it using the hardware key. It's not as fancy or flexible as the DRM schemes employed by dedicated formats like AAC, but it does the job.
Dan
Posted by: cornflower
I would definitely pay for this kind of service. But I'd like to be able to stream directly off the Tivo onto my PC, rather than just do file copy for archiving. This would let me use Tivo on all my PCs in my house rather than having to buy a Tivo for each room.
Essentially, I'd like Tivo software that I can run on all the PC's on my home LAN. Bandwidth could be an issue so it might not be fully functional software -- but I'd like to be able to use all my PC monitors as Tivo displays.
I just got my Tivo last week and love it. However, having just realized how little the Comcast DVR package (<$10 / month with no upfront cost), I'm realizing how many years it will take me to recoup my costs compared to the ComCast package. The PC options would definitely make me feel that it's worth the extra money to get the Tivo -- at the moment, I'm not sure if I can recommend almost $700 upfront for the box plus universal service when there's such a cheap (albeit less functional) option out there.
Posted by: Dajad
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
You're misinformed. Once the show is copied to DVD it can be played back on any DVD player, NOT just the PC with the dongle. The raw MPEG file on the PCs hard drive is the only thing that requires the dongle to play.
Humm ... I guess I was uninformed ... now that I'm informed, the value of TiVoToGo has jumped from $0 all the way up to $0!!! :)
Even dongleless DVDs are pointless from my perspective. I'd never want it. Don't want the hassle of porting things to DVDs, having to track what is on each, keeping nice little libraries of them etc. To much work for no net value in my opinion.
...Dale
P.S. But seriously Dan, thanks for the info. I was wondering how people were going to be able to play back these shows on DVD players that don't have USB ports (most of the non PC DVD world). I appreciate the clarification!
Posted by: Dajad
quote:
Originally posted by smak
Have you looked at the DVD market lately? TV shows on DVD's are gigantic. So gigantic that one show (family guy) may make it back on to network TV because of huge DVD sales.
You may not see the appeal, but millions of people do.
-smak-
I see the appeal to the after market DVD market. I use it myself. I rented and watched the first season of 24 on DVD and I rented and watched Band of Brothers on DVD! It's terrifict and valuable.
That ain't the market we are talking about!
Had I used TiVo to record 24 or Band of Brothers, I would have watched it off of TiVo. I wouldn't go through the hassle of saving them on DVDs for later playback ... why bother ... that's what TiVo is for. And, WHILE I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE ARGUMENT FOR THE 20TH TIME HERE, permanent archiving of TV shows, as your suggested use implies, would still be a breach of copyright. If anyone want's to argue that point yet again, don't bother, search my userid and the word "archive" for many threads on that one!
And, yes it might be nice to record shows to give to friends and family who missed it ... but to that I say, convince your friends and family to get a TiVo and they won't miss shows ever again! :) And in the ONE time in the last 4 years this was an issue for me, I saved it on my VCR.
...Dale
Posted by: Dajad
quote:
Originally posted by kitsap
That's one of the benefits of TivoToGo ... at least if you have a laptop computer. You don't need a DVD anymore. You just transfer the Tivo programming directly to your laptop for plane viewing, from its hard drive.
No "DVD pain" ... less battery drain ... while on the plane! (Pony, if you use this, I'll expect a royalty check.)
OK, in addition to the baby-sitting the kiddies benefit, if you are someone who flys on planes several times a week and must have your personal TV shows with you, then I guess that would be useful. (One wonders how such jet-setters will have the time to do the copying onto DVDs!) But how many users represent this market. I fly a few times a year ... I still couldn't imagine streaming shows to my laptop to watch online. If I wasn't satisfied with the inflight movie, wasn't flying JetBlue where I have DirectTV and didn't bring a good book, I'd still be more likely to rent a DVD to watch on the plane before going through the rig-a-marole of copying a show to my laptop from TiVo. Again, I like watching my TiVo shows in the living room. For the extremely odd time that I'd want to take a show with me on the road, I wouldn't go through the effort of hooking it all up and figuring it all out in the first place, let alone take the time to make the copy after it was all set up.
...Dale
Posted by: timckelley
quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz
Assuming the price of this package is under $100, it would be a much better solution than a SA DVD recorder or one of the integrated TiVo/DVD-R products. If HMO=$99, DVD Burner for PC=~$100, and USB Dongle/software=~$75 then that combined price is still less than the cheapest SA DVD recorders and would allow for DVDs that didn't get converted back to analog.
So that totals to $274. How much free hard drive space will we need on our PCs. Will many of us have to invest in buying another hard drive, upping the cost?
I hear that Sam's Wholesale has a SA DVD recorder for around $280.
Posted by: smak
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
I see the appeal to the after market DVD market. I use it myself. I rented and watched the first season of 24 on DVD and I rented and watched Band of Brothers on DVD! It's terrifict and valuable.
That ain't the market we are talking about!
...Dale
But, the thing is I probably will get this and NEVER burn a DVD from it.
If I have more rooms than TV's, or have an office with no Tivo, I can watch any show from any Tivo in my house in any PC in my house.
I can wirelessly watch tv shows on my laptop out on the patio, or anywhere in the house.
Sure, it's not going to be as good as viewing it on a regular TV, but it gives you a lot of flexibility, and doesn't make you a slave to the living room.
-smak-
Posted by: smak
quote:
Originally posted by timckelley
So that totals to $274. How much free hard drive space will we need on our PCs. Will many of us have to invest in buying another hard drive, upping the cost?
I hear that Sam's Wholesale has a SA DVD recorder for around $280.
You have more functionality with tivo to go than a SA DVD recorder, since you can still play anything on any Tivo while transferring to your PC.
With a SA recorder, you are stuck watching that show while it's burning, especially if you only have one tivo.
-smak-
ps. I have a SA recorder, so I know the limitations.
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
permanent archiving of TV shows, as your suggested use implies, would still be a breach of copyright.
It's not "archiving", it's long term time shifting. ;)
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
For the extremely odd time that I'd want to take a show with me on the road, I wouldn't go through the effort of hooking it all up and figuring it all out in the first place, let alone take the time to make the copy after it was all set up.
You make it sound like it's going to be so complicated. When in reality anyone who has a Series 2 connected to a home network should be able to simply launch the software, select the show from their TiVo, and hit go. No "hooking up" or figuring out" required.
Dan
Posted by: kitsap
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
You make it sound like it's going to be so complicated. When in reality anyone who has a Series 2 connected to a home network should be able to simply launch the software, select the show from their TiVo, and hit go. No "hooking up" or figuring out" required.
You mean you don't disconnect all of your networked components every time you're done using them, then reconnect them when you want to use them again? :eek: I suppose you leave your spark plugs in the engine when the car is sitting in the garage, too. ;)
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by kitsap
You mean you don't disconnect all of your networked components every time you're done using them, then reconnect them when you want to use them again? :eek: I suppose you leave your spark plugs in the engine when the car is sitting in the garage, too. ;)
Yeah. I guess I'm just weird like that. :D
Dan
Posted by: Dajad
quote:
Originally posted by smak
But, the thing is I probably will get this and NEVER burn a DVD from it.
If I have more rooms than TV's, or have an office with no Tivo, I can watch any show from any Tivo in my house in any PC in my house.
I can wirelessly watch tv shows on my laptop out on the patio, or anywhere in the house.
Sure, it's not going to be as good as viewing it on a regular TV, but it gives you a lot of flexibility, and doesn't make you a slave to the living room.
-smak-
Are you serious! My goodness, you must absolutely be a TV addict. Thanks to TiVo, I watch more TV than the average bear, but aside from having the CNBC stock ticker flashing by wherever I am (something TiVo To Go wouldn't do) I can't fathom of a single instance in my life where I would watch a pre-recorded show off a laptop (or any other device) in any place in my house other than my livingroom or bedroom.
It goes to show, the world is made up of many "unique" individuals.
:) ...Dale
Posted by: Dajad
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
You make it sound like it's going to be so complicated. When in reality anyone who has a Series 2 connected to a home network should be able to simply launch the software, select the show from their TiVo, and hit go. No "hooking up" or figuring out" required.
You've got to download or otherwise install the software in the first place ... figure out how much hard drive space it's all going to take up (or get blank DVDs) ... connect your laptop to your network, boot-up the software, start up the copying process ... pay attention to when it stops and starts, shut all that down. Remember what you have on TiVo and what is on your computer or DVDs. If you delete from your TiVo, you must watch from your PC, or DVD. If you don't delete from TiVo, you start to accumulate duplicates and you have to track where the copies are and what you have and haven't watched.
I bought my TiVo to avoid all of this kind of hassle ... not to create it! And all this is supposed to be for the person who is too busy to watch TV shows in their livingroom and must do so on the run?!?!?!
Again, save for a couple exceptions, way too much pain for negligible gain.
...Dale
Posted by: drosoph
Zero, Zip, Nadda .... It is worthless to me...
Collaborative Scheduling, SA HDTV, .... Now those, those are worth my dollars !!!
Posted by: samo
quote:
Again, I like watching my TiVo shows in the living room.
Dale, either I'm getting younger or you are getting older. :) Our opinions started converging more often than not. Just like you, I can't picture myself watching sitcom on PC - with 4 TVs around a house and 3 people to watch them it doesn't seem like necessity. "On the go" doesn't attract me either. I don't fly first class and hardly have enough space on a tray for my drink. As a rule I don't archive TV programming either- there isn't much on TV worth watching even one time, but on occasions there is something that I or my wife want to keep like local news broadcast about my son being first in Colorado to graduate from 4 year college in one year. Over the time protected recordings start eating into available space and since my wife wouldn't let me erase some of her stuff I'm up to 5 PVRs now 3/4 filled with things I could't touch. So SA DVDR came to the rescue and since it has 30 sec skip and 60X FF my wife finally allowed me to clean up some storage. I think that more people will use TiVoToGo for archiving than for "ToGo" on laptop, but what kludge ToGo archiving is! First slow transfer with USB 1.0, then crappy dongle protected software from Sonic to burn it to DVD - no thank you, I'll stick with SA DVDR.
Posted by: smak
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
Are you serious! My goodness, you must absolutely be a TV addict. Thanks to TiVo, I watch more TV than the average bear, but aside from having the CNBC stock ticker flashing by wherever I am (something TiVo To Go wouldn't do) I can't fathom of a single instance in my life where I would watch a pre-recorded show off a laptop (or any other device) in any place in my house other than my livingroom or bedroom.
It goes to show, the world is made up of many "unique" individuals.
:) ...Dale
It's just that I can do 2 things at once, I can work on the computer and watch TV at the same time. If I have no TV within eyesight of my computer, and I want to use the computer, why not watch a show at the same time.
-smak-
Posted by: geoman47
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
I bought my TiVo to avoid all of this kind of hassle ... not to create it! And all this is supposed to be for the person who is too busy to watch TV shows in their livingroom and must do so on the run?!?!?!
Again, save for a couple exceptions, way too much pain for negligible gain.
Here’s one for you –
For my job, I will be traveling every third week from about March – August, with a 2 week trip to England in September.
If TiVo ToGo was available now, I could watch "TV my way" instead of dealing with hotel cable & Live TV at night. Perhaps on the plane, especially the long flights, if nothing else to break up the monotony of reading for x hours straight.
Granted, if I traveled less, I would be less excited about TiVo ToGo, but the flexibility of not being tied to 1 TV sounds pretty neat to me.
Posted by: PHANTOM
Tivo to go is not worth 1 red cent in my book.
Posted by: HTH
Depends how much it is worth it to me to be able to send burned DVDs to my mother using this via my PC vs. the Dazzle* Hollywood DV Bridge and software I already have for my Mac.
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by HTH
Depends how much it is worth it to me to be able to send burned DVDs to my mother using this via my PC vs. the Dazzle* Hollywood DV Bridge and software I already have for my Mac.
You know you don't have to use a PC. TiVoPony confirmed that they are going to realse a Mac version of TiVoToGo as well.
Dan
Posted by: Peter000
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
You know you don't have to use a PC. TiVoPony confirmed that they are going to realse a Mac version of TiVoToGo as well.
Really?? Cool! Can you link to the post? I'm wondering if it's going to integrate into iDVD or DVD Studio Pro.
Posted by: ZeoTiVo
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
I don't copy shows from TiVo now onto VHS, the ability to record onto DVD hold's no additional appeal. And, frankly, I don't see why it does for others - with the exception of parents recording shows on DVDs to babysit their kiddies while travelling - that, at least, makes some sense to me.
...Dale
so isn't this a bit like a Marathon runner being told by a bike racer that he can buy/get a new bike when he buys shoes.
The marathon racer asks - why go to all the hassle of getting a bike into competitive shape and riding it in the race when I can just run.
The bike racer replies-- how can you race without a bike it makes it easier and you can go farther than ever before
so they keep on going round about what a bike is worth in a race and neither one seems to get that running a marathon is fine and racing on bikes is fine and the equipment cost is going to be different and if you race bikes then you will want to talk at length about bike equipment. As long as the marathon runner is not forced to get a bike or talk about them whats the difference to him ?
Posted by: HTH
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
Really?? Cool! Can you link to the post? I'm wondering if it's going to integrate into iDVD or DVD Studio Pro.
Better throw Final Cut Express, Final Cut Pro, and iMovie into that mix as well, if you want to do any editing.
Posted by: Cubfan
I don't know about you guys, but I already paid $150 for something that came free with the competition. If they charge again for yet another feature that is free with the competition, at what point do people start getting really ticked off? I know I would be.
It's unbelievable to me that they'd even consider charging yet again for a feature that should be native to the product.
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
Really?? Cool! Can you link to the post? I'm wondering if it's going to integrate into iDVD or DVD Studio Pro.
It's actually in this very thread, just a couple pages back...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...704#post1650704
Dan
Posted by: Dajad
quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
so isn't this a bit like a Marathon runner being told by a bike racer that he can buy/get a new bike when he buys shoes.
The marathon racer asks - why go to all the hassle of getting a bike into competitive shape and riding it in the race when I can just run.
The bike racer replies-- how can you race without a bike it makes it easier and you can go farther than ever before
so they keep on going round about what a bike is worth in a race and neither one seems to get that running a marathon is fine and racing on bikes is fine and the equipment cost is going to be different and if you race bikes then you will want to talk at length about bike equipment. As long as the marathon runner is not forced to get a bike or talk about them whats the difference to him ?
What on God's green earth are you talking about!?
:) ... Dale
Posted by: PHANTOM
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
It's actually in this very thread, just a couple pages back...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...704#post1650704
Dan
He doesn't state that it will be compatible with final cut pro or anything else for that matter. Besides, this is rediculous. Look at how proprietary the 810 is. You cannot do a thing except burn it to the disk using their system. It will be the same thing come tivo-to-go. I guarantee it will be a software download with encryption that will only burn to a dvd via your Tivo program. In the end you will still have commercials or whatever else you record. You will still have no way to edit them. And no access to the raw data. Mark my words and for those expecting to be able to edit, well, don't hold your breath.
Posted by: ZeoTiVo
quote:
Originally posted by Dajad
What on God's green earth are you talking about!?
:) ... Dale
I just found it amusing that in this thread you state that TiVoToGo is worth nothing to you and you like to watch your media in your living room. (this makes you the marathon runner in my analogy) Then the bike racers came out and said TiVoToGo does this and that, etc.. and how could you watch media in only one place (to extend my analogy -- how could you race without a bike.) Then you came back and trashed the whole idea of moving media to any other device as extra steps with little reason to perform, etc.. (the maraton runner trashing the idea of racing with a bike when you have perfectly fine running shoes)
So anyway I was just amused by the back and forth and decided to throw an analogy into the mix as it was a slow work day.
as for me, I have a family with four kids so I want media choices. I broadcast my TiVo, PC and DVD player onto channels on my coax and then whatever can be watched whereever to accomadate everyone. At the same time the family room is the main viewing area so my components are all there for prime viewing
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by PHANTOM
He doesn't state that it will be compatible with final cut pro or anything else for that matter. Besides, this is rediculous. Look at how proprietary the 810 is. You cannot do a thing except burn it to the disk using their system.
I believe the reason for us not being able to edit video on the 810 is NOT due to TiVo wanting to prevent it, but because they have yet to find an elegant solution for doing it it their simplistic interface. When/if they do I'm sure they'll have no hesitation adding it.
quote:
Originally posted by PHANTOM
It will be the same thing come tivo-to-go. I guarantee it will be a software download with encryption that will only burn to a dvd via your Tivo program. In the end you will still have commercials or whatever else you record. You will still have no way to edit them. And no access to the raw data. Mark my words and for those expecting to be able to edit, well, don't hold your breath.
I disagree. Sonic MyDVD is very simplistic, but the most recent version does allow basic editing. Provided the same functionality is offered using the TiVoToGo service then you should be able to at least edit out the commercials. In fact TiVoPony has already said that they will at the very least offer start and end clipping, which proves they have no real objection to editing.
And even if that does turn out to be the case there will still be ways around it. For example you could burn the DVD, then RIP the now decrypted video to a standard MPEG file, and then edit that and reburn the disk. It's a few extra steps, but it's still better then anything we can do now. (short of hacking)
Dan
Posted by: GBaz
HMO is worthless I have one tivo. If I could pay for only the feature i want that would be great. I would pay $30 for remote schedualing. I would also pay for a device that I can plug into my tivo's usb port like the rca A/V lyra and watch shows on a 3.5" screen. But not the service as it is.
But I think a reasonable price for most people who want it would be about $50-70.
Posted by: scurra
I'll pay anything for my pcs to share with both my series 2 tivos. $100 per computer would not surprise me.
Tivo = life = expensive = worth every penney
Posted by: jhwpbm
My dream scenario:
My trusty laptop on a business trip + my favorite shows queued up the afternoon I left from home + familiar TiVo interface on my laptop = no more boredom in the hotel room!
I'd KILL to be able to watch TiVo'd programs on my laptop (killer high-definition LCD screen and all).
Posted by: kalahari
I have no interest in HMO, and since it seems that HMO is required for TiVoToGo, I'll have to give it some thought before I lay down my money. I have access to digital music and photos through several other devices in my home, so I see no need to pay $50 to have it on my TiVo too. Remote scheduling should be free, IMHO.
As for burning to DVD, I think it should be a minimal cost...whatever is needed to cover the cost of the dongle and software, only.
Posted by: JuryDuty
Has it for sure been established that you'll have to subscribe to HMO to get TivoToGo? I just got another email offering HMO for a discount, but don't really need it...but I'd get it if I needed it for TivoToGo later this year.
Thoughts?
Posted by: GameGuru
And for those saying there will be no way to edit it because of it's encryption, you really need to have faith in the hacking community. Any encryption Tivo puts on it the Tivo To Go file WILL be broken and whatever format they put it in there WILL be conversion tools to make it a standard AVI or MPEG so you will be able to use all your regular editing software on it.
Why all the nay saying? You know this will happen, it always does.
Posted by: CrispyCritter
quote:
Originally posted by GameGuru
Why all the nay saying? You know this will happen, it always does.
What did you say the back-door code for 4.0 was? :D
Posted by: GameGuru
I am saying once the file is on your PC there is no way to keep it secure, it will be broke and we will be able to convert the proprietary format to and AVI or MPEG for editing or someone will make a piece of software to edit their proprietary format. I said nothing about a back-door key into the actual Tivo hardware.
Posted by: ZeoTiVo
I think CrispyCritter is implying that since there are no back door codes for 4.0 that your assertion that the encrypted format will be hacked has the possibility of not happening just like back doors did not happen for 4.0
however this is apples to oranges as the back door codes are placed there by the developers and were either taken out or changed and no one has reported what the new ones are.
an encrypted media file is a different thing as it is something to be circumvented rather than discovered or told about.
the circumvention is still speculation based on past events, but if the editing and then burning to DVD process of TiVoToGo is non existent or too cumbersome then circimventing the encryption will be pursued with vigor.
If most people find the editing just fine then the circumvention will be pursued for curiosity and bragging rights.
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by GameGuru
And for those saying there will be no way to edit it because of it's encryption, you really need to have faith in the hacking community. Any encryption Tivo puts on it the Tivo To Go file WILL be broken and whatever format they put it in there WILL be conversion tools to make it a standard AVI or MPEG so you will be able to use all your regular editing software on it.
Why all the nay saying? You know this will happen, it always does.
Someone may be able to figure out how to pass video through the USB key and decrypt the files that way, but don't expect someone to actually crack the encryption completely. There have been "other" methods for extracting video from TiVos for years, and the only method that's been devised to break the encryption on those files requires you to hack TiVo kernel and have it pass the video through the crypto chip.
Dan
Posted by: HTH
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
requires you to hack TiVo kernel and have it pass the video through the crypto chip.
I thought it was to have it not pass the video through the crypto chip in the first place.
Posted by: Dan203
quote:
Originally posted by HTH
I thought it was to have it not pass the video through the crypto chip in the first place.
You're right that once you get it setup you simply disable the encryption, however all shows recorded before the encryption is disabled are still encrypted and require the hack I mentioned above to be decrypted.
Dan
Posted by: HTH
quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
You're right that once you get it setup you simply disable the encryption, however all shows recorded before the encryption is disabled are still encrypted and require the hack I mentioned above to be decrypted.
Ah, of course. :)
vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2009,
Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vB Easy Archive Final ©2000 - 2009
- Created by Stefan "Xenon" Kaeser
Modified by Adam J. de Jaray