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pre-order
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Posted by: dcushing
It's funny. Everyone who pre-ordered from Robert has the same story on when the units will be picked up/shipped etc.
Everyone who ordered from Good Guys has a different story and is trying to imply that Good Guys is better, therefor should get them sooner.
Personally, I think they are bitter because they didn't see Robert's offer sooner.:D :D
Dave
Posted by: Gromit
Have we already talked about shipping? I can't remember...
Do we know who is doing the shipping, FedEx or UPS? I'm hoping to avoid a nice note on my door telling me I wasn't around to sign for it.
I think my wife will be home for spring break though. The advantage of being married to a teacher! Now if I just convince her that she can't go anywhere.
Posted by: PJO1966
This was covered somewhere in the million or so posts before, but whoever is shipping, just leave a note on the door to leave it on the doorstep, or with a neighbor. Be sure to include your signature.
Posted by: gseeg
quote:
Originally posted by dcushing
Everyone who ordered from Good Guys has a different story and is trying to imply that Good Guys is better, therefor should get them sooner.
Maybe they should call the corporate office and get the straight scoop. If only they could find the number. :rolleyes:
Posted by: neilaevans
Has anyone heard anything from Robert about possibly picking up the units directly from him down in San Diego? I know a couple of us posted that question, but I never saw a reply from Robert. Feel free to PM any replies if needed.
Thanks.
Posted by: rogelah
Just think of the nightmare Robert would have with folks showing up at the shipping point and asking to take their units with them.
If I were doing the shipping I would coordinate the delivery of the units to either Fed Ex or UPS (whomever is the carrier) and I would have all the shipping labels prepared with little more to do that slap them on boxes and let the carrier do the rest.
Posted by: PJO1966
I'm sure that's exactly what he's doing.
Posted by: slocko
just this article:
http://www.skyreport.com/viewskyrep...eID=1353#Story2
quote:
Originally posted by jrock
Is there a list of the 32 markets anywhere?
-Joe
Posted by: neilaevans
Oh, I agree it would be a nightmare for Robert, but he's shown a certain willingness to handle nightmares before (emailing/pming everyone their place in line, for instance) so I thought I'd check.
Posted by: jdk
Do you realize that these will most likely be "shipped" from large UPS and FedEX receiving facilities just across the border from Mexico.
Robert's not opening up a storefront in San Diego for the week. I doubt he's even going to leave his business to complete these transactions. In this day of drop-shipment, JIT manufacturing, and outsourced warehousing, many things you order from a business are shipped to you by someone else.
So, it's theoretically possible for you to show up at the UPS or FedEx warehouse and find someone to manually hunt down your box. But you'll have to arrive at just the right moment when the incoming Solectron truck arrives, and the outbound FedEX/UPS truck hasn't left yet. And its a big question if you can even find someone able or willing to hunt down your box. I tried this once at my local FedEx office, and they refused.
Posted by: sangs
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
I wonder how many people haven't sent Robert back the forms and will get burn't because of it..
Wait a second. We should have received these forms from VE already? Because I have not.
Posted by: jeepintivo
I'm not looking to start a big discussion here, but try as I might I haven't been able to convince my wife to let me get the HD Tivo. So I've decided to put my pre order position up on eBay. I am in the first group of 100 pre orders so you could have one by the end of this week :D
I'd like to come out ahead on this since I won't be getting to HD Tivo for awhile (is that a verb :) and I'm not shy about saying I think this is capitalism at work.
Anyway for those who might be interested the item number is 3088342004 or just search for HDTIVO
Good luck and congrats to those getting a unit this week!
Posted by: PJO1966
Just wondering ... did you check with Robert to hear if he's OK with receiving the paperwork for this on the day they are supposed to be shipping?
Posted by: jeepintivo
Well theres not much I can do about that since I haven't gotten ahold of him yet and the deposit is non refundable :(
But you bring up a valid point I am going to keep trying.
Posted by: slocko
I think Robert stated in the paperwork that he will not ship your unit without the paperwork. As soon as he receives it, he will put you back in line. I am assuming that if he has charged your credit card, he will physically set aside the box until you fax the papework.
If he hasn't charged your credit card, then he will probably just keep pushing you down the line, but with the limited shipments, each day you dally, will mean he will run out of the first run.
Posted by: turls
For about the hundreth time, unless payment was made in full, when orders were placed doesn't matter one iota if one of the big chains wants to flex muscles.
I think it is great if VE gets these orders done under the radar, but unless DirecTV is different than every other manufacturer out there, any big B&M can walk all over any internet shop if they want to.
quote:
Originally posted by dcushing
Everyone who ordered from Good Guys has a different story and is trying to imply that Good Guys is better, therefor should get them sooner.
Personally, I think they are bitter because they didn't see Robert's offer sooner.:D :D
Posted by: madgrizzle
Speaking of HDMI cables, does anyone know a source for long HDMI-HDMI cables? I need at least 20 feet and preferrably about 40 feet (so I can run it into the walls/ceiling). The HD box will interface to my Sony HS20 front projector and they will not be anywhere close to each other.
Posted by: neilaevans
quote:
Originally posted by jdk
Do you realize that these will most likely be "shipped" from large UPS and FedEX receiving facilities just across the border from Mexico.
Robert's not opening up a storefront in San Diego for the week. I doubt he's even going to leave his business to complete these transactions. In this day of drop-shipment, JIT manufacturing, and outsourced warehousing, many things you order from a business are shipped to you by someone else.
So, it's theoretically possible for you to show up at the UPS or FedEx warehouse and find someone to manually hunt down your box. But you'll have to arrive at just the right moment when the incoming Solectron truck arrives, and the outbound FedEX/UPS truck hasn't left yet. And its a big question if you can even find someone able or willing to hunt down your box. I tried this once at my local FedEx office, and they refused.
JDK,
Yes, I realized Robert isn't opening a storefront, but I had thought he'd posted earlier that he WOULD be coming to Cali to organize the shipment. Just did a quick and not very thorough search though, and I'm not certain whether that actually came from him or whether it was just assumed by other forum members.
However, if he is indeed coming to Cali, then I imagine he would be working out of a Fed Ex or UPS shipment facility and it might be possible to pick up from him there. I know I've done that at Fed Ex here. I presume though that you're right and the UPS/Fed Ex facilities on the border are MUCH larger than most, and not set up for customer pickups the way the average facility is...so it's probably not possible. As I said, I was just asking whether anyone had gotten definite word from Robert on the subject.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by turls
For about the hundreth time, unless payment was made in full, when orders were placed doesn't matter one iota if one of the big chains wants to flex muscles.
I think it is great if VE gets these orders done under the radar, but unless DirecTV is different than every other manufacturer out there, any big B&M can walk all over any internet shop if they want to.
And for about the hundredth time, you're clueless about where Robert/Value Electronics sits in the pecking order of important/volume dealers for Hughes/DirecTV.
Posted by: turls
Ok, then rank them for me, why don't you?
Posted by: AbMagFab
Based on this board, VE has over 1000 pre-orders. I've got to think that's more than anyone else, combined, at the moment.
Who else would have so many early adopters? I'm guessing BB has none, CC has maybe a few dozen, and GG has maybe a few dozen.
So I'm guessing Robert and VE are #1 on DirecTV's list right now.
Posted by: hongcho
What's the big fuss about who gets more when? Why would a GG pre-order customer care about the VE and vice versa? If VE does not ship 200 on 3/31 as VE stated earlier (after discussing with DirecTV), then those of us pre-ordered with VE should just complain to (or ask for explanation from) VE. If GG does not get 1000 units in their main warehouse on 3/31, those who ordered from GG should complain to (or ask for explanation from) GG.
Until then, stop b*tching about each other, please!
Hong.
Posted by: tivowevo
i am confused.
i called VE and they told me that the HDTivo will not hit the shelves until late april due to issues with the unit.
i have tried several different ways to find it at good guys. It seems to be a total clusterf#@K there.
Same at best buy.
I read on here that some people are expecting them this week...
Nobody can give me a real release date. Can someone clear some of this mess up? And if GG and BB are expecting them soon, how the heck do i get in touch with someone who knows when and where I can get one.
TX
Posted by: turls
And if this isn't an issue at all, VE should get all their orders before GG gets any. Explain the logic if this isn't the case. He was first, wasn't he?
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
And for about the hundredth time, you're clueless about where Robert/Value Electronics sits in the pecking order of important/volume dealers for Hughes/DirecTV.
Posted by: turls
Because I know (and dislike) how the machine works and I hate misinformation. And some people like to turn around and attack and present speculation as fact.
And by machine I mean the manufacturer/B&M relationship.
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
What's the big fuss about who gets more when?
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by turls
And if this isn't an issue at all, VE should get all their orders before GG gets any. Explain the logic if this isn't the case. He was first, wasn't he?
The first order he placed was for 350 units.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The first order he placed was for 350 units.
... and IIRC, he was the first vendor to do so by at least a week.
Posted by: turls
I think we had around 300 pre-orders for a $3000 TV. We got the rug pulled out from under us by a big chain at about the last minute and we had to turn around and pay in full before we could even have our orders placed officially with Sammy.
quote:
Originally posted by AbMagFab
Based on this board, VE has over 1000 pre-orders. I've got to think that's more than anyone else, combined, at the moment.
Who else would have so many early adopters? I'm guessing BB has none, CC has maybe a few dozen, and GG has maybe a few dozen.
Posted by: turls
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The first order he placed was for 350 units.
Ok, so you're saying the 2nd order didn't get placed until much later? Or what?
Posted by: DoughboyWebDev
Sorry I am late, Can you please add me to the list
Time of Order: 1/23/2004 8:32:56 PM
Order Type: Email
Order ID: 13045
Posted by: GreyGhost00
OK ... nobody's better than anyone else. Everyone happy now?
We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
STFU - Geez.
Posted by: turls
Ok, well looks like I'm not going to get answers to my questions so I'll throw out some hypotheticals for people to consider if they truly believe when an order was placed has much if anything to do with allocations.
I'm using some hypotheticals here, but the assumption is that the HD DirecTivo box is going to have less supply than demand initially.
Say VE ordered 350 units in mid-January for a product that isn't coming out for a few months.
Say Best Buy, GG, or any other big regional or national B&M placed an order for 1000 units a week later.
Hughes tells the buyer--we are only manufacturing x units in the first 3 runs so I can only get you x units. 350 of those are spoken for.
B&M buyer says, are those 350 units already paid for?
Hughes: no but they placed the order last week.
B&M Buyer: so you are going to risk end-cap and other agreements with us to provide units to a internet store?
Hughes: uhhhh
Pretty simple really, no matter where he is in the pecking order. Lot of ifs there, but I'd like to see somebody argue successfully with the logic.
Or just throw out more speculation. I'm done. Just don't help ruin the chance for future pre-orders like this by complaining publicly when/if you see a box in your local B&M before you get yours from VE.
Of course, the whiners will be out in force anyway if this does happen.
Posted by: hongcho
> Ok, well looks like I'm not going to get answers to my questions...
Wasn't that obvious since none from the actually involved parties are responding at least in this thread (they might be reading though)?
I think everyone just adding to the speculation and making this week unnecessarily stressful (to some, I guess).
I understand turls has had a bad experience (or more than once) with some big vendor getting preferential treatment and trying to lower people's expectation so that they won't get disappointed. I do understand the intent, but it won't do much in reality. If turls' scenario (not that I believe he knows how DirecTV's and GG's executives work) plays out, then no matter what you say and warn won't make much of difference regarding the number of complaints and whinings.
Even if VE indeed gets units out as promised, I expect to see some complaints and whinings nonetheless. Isn't it how this type of message boards and human nature works?
Just take a deep breath, everyone, and let's just try to make this week's anticipation as pleasant as possible.
Hong.
Posted by: slocko
Matt,
VE does have a history of scooping the big guys. That counts for something.
Also, the target audience we are talking here is very small. HD-Tivo is not going to bring people to the BM stores in droves like say, a shiny new flatscreen. Even though it's an expensive item, it just doesn't have a high profile like a TV costing $3000.
Another point, Robert is guaranteeing activation to DTV because we had to sign the agreement. No one else can guarantee that because they dont' have the same number of pre-orders. If you are DTV, which one will you choose?
Posted by: dropper
Have you read any of this board? I know it's long, buy there are answers to all of your questions.
Just for the record, VE was on a conference call last Monday, and was able to solidify his expected ship dates. Sounds like 200 the first week, and partial shipments each week after that, beginning with 250 units.
Robert has a track record of getting units before the B&M's. Being good at turnover is what companies like. I would rather ship to VE and know that I will be putting 450 into immediate service, than 1000 to BB where they could sit on shelves. They make their real money on subscriptions. The sooner they get their $40/month, the happier they are.
Of course, we will see on Wednesday or Thursday.
Keith
Posted by: dcushing
The information that people here are talking about for pre-orders comes directly from a conference call Robert has had with Hughes/Directv. The initial shipment numbers have been given out already.
I think you also have to look at would other retailer care. We are talking about a $1000.00 fancy VCR!!!! I don't think at any time in the near future will you find many of these in the shelf.
Also, not knowing anything, with Robert's volume of business for Directv, how do we know if he hasn't already paid in full for the first shipment.
So many people are getting their panties in a bind over nothing. We will all know in two days who is right.
The only thing for certain is by Wednesday night, this thread will be full of whiners, either from the people who pre-ordered from Robert, or from the others.
Dave
Posted by: bpdp379
quote:
Originally posted by madgrizzle
Speaking of HDMI cables, does anyone know a source for long HDMI-HDMI cables? I need at least 20 feet and preferrably about 40 feet (so I can run it into the walls/ceiling). The HD box will interface to my Sony HS20 front projector and they will not be anywhere close to each other.
Pacific Cable
I think 5m is the max for an unboosted HDMI/DVI though...
Posted by: k2ue
quote:
Originally posted by turls
Just don't help ruin the chance for future pre-orders like this by complaining publicly when/if you see a box in your local B&M before you get yours from VE.
Of course, the whiners will be out in force anyway if this does happen.
Actually you missed a common life-is-unfair screw-up that happened to me: you pre-order WAY in advance, but there are not codes in the manufacturer's system for the new model, so your PO sits in someone's In-box until there is -- then they all get entered the same day, and when there isn't enough to go around they "share" by order date -- but their orders were bigger, and all were entered INTO THE COMPUTER SYSTEM the same day, so you a fraction of what they get.
You guys may not like what turls is saying, but it really IS a jungle out there. Just remember, for better or worse, none of this of Robert's fault, and anyone who vents on him will be ADDING to any injustices he suffers.
Posted by: ebonovic
This is also an assumption that BB and CC and other LARGE B&M stores are intrested in selling this product right now.
At a $1,000 price tag, it not like it is a "spontaneous" purchase at these two stores. It is usually one mulled on, then researched on the net, (and to see if it is at a lower price), ect...
Good Guys, Tweeter , UE , ABT are in the same boat as VE. When it comes to pecking order. Just because your a B&M doesn't mean you automatically trump an Internet Only store.
Best Buy and Circuit City are totally different players.
Also one thing to note:
This weeks advertisements for Best Buy and Circuit City make no mention of an HD-DTivo. Also according to people I know that work at the two stores, it is not in Next Weeks product display layout... Thus probable means it is not in next weeks advertisements either.
Now, If those two stores are not Advertising that they have it, then it is a good shot that they will NOT have it during these first few weeks, as for a product of this magnitude and expense... They would be pushing it in their Ads so that it is not sitting on their shelf. Not everyone (probale most people) who is intrested HDTV/Tivo, even read forum or message boards or even Tivo's website. Thus have no idea that this product is comming out this week (or at least should be).
They won't know until the first reviews hit the magazines and papers, or the advertisements are in Sunday's paper... and those could be weeks if not months away.
So where Robert comes into play is that he can go:
Hey... I have 350 confirmed buyers (30% of all his pre-orders). I will have check on hand (maybe he has that type of cash reserver, or takes a small loan out)... These units will be in cerculation to the "hard core" users, who will certain put the units to the test...
The last part is speculation, but I will still hedge that Robert and other small firms will actually have the upper hand on a product like this.
Best Buy and Circuit City can not play the card of "pissing off" a large national chain. Why? If Best Buy balks at carrying it, then Circuit City will say hey... We will carry it and wait our turn, if you lock BB out out. And the same goes the other way around.
This last piece is Large Business 101... If you competitor plays hard ball, you play soft ball and undercut them...
Posted by: btwyx
quote:
Originally posted by tivowevo
Nobody can give me a real release date. Can someone clear some of this mess up? And if GG and BB are expecting them soon, how the heck do i get in touch with someone who knows when and where I can get one.
Real release date: 3/31
When you can actually get one is less certain, there are people who've already ordered them (like me) who expect to get them 4/1. If you havn't already ordered you're in the queue behind all those who have. The expectation seems to be May-ish they may actually be on store shelves. It could be earlier, it could be later.
Posted by: dstroot
Hong - will you be running for office soon? If so you have my vote.
Funny how this thread sometime gets hijacked by some strange stuff.
Do I believe Robert/VE are operating in good faith and have provided us with all the information they have available? YES.
Could a big B&M chain come in and "flex it's muscles" - sure, of course. But generally orders are handled in the order they arrive and don't the B&M chains have professional buyers to know what to order when? Plus is D* equipment a big margin business for the B&Ms? I don't know but I would guess not - D* already subsidizes the HW. I'm not sure GG/BB/CC *wants* to sell 10,000 of these things.
I hope they get built and shipped just as predicted. The funniest thing to me (and one that I haven't seen much comment on in this thread) are the total numbers - the factory is only going to build 200 units? Then a few hundred a week? For the whole US market? That sounds very low - Best Buy alone has 750 retail stores in the United States and Canada. There has to be 10,000 D* retailers in the US - assuming the "factory" is building 1,200-1,500 per month (according to figures in this thead) - so 1 in a hundred stores will have one unit to sell once a month? C'mon...
If the factory is building them they should be slapping together thousands. I hope... :)
Posted by: dswallow
Order listing moved, for convenience, to http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...483#post1842483
Posted by: ebonovic
So when are you adding the columns:
Credit Card Charged Date, Recieved Tracking # Date, ect : :)
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by ebonovic
So when are you adding the columns:
Credit Card Charged Date, Recieved Tracking # Date, ect : :)
Next time I'm gonna just create a web app to manage this.
Really, next time I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut about my having preordered at all. ;)
Posted by: turls
I've qualified every single statement I've made about this with that caveat about "do they really care". Who knows?
And actually, I believe Tweeter was the one that rained on the parade previously, or at least that's what we were told unofficially.
quote:
Originally posted by ebonovic
This is also an assumption that BB and CC and other LARGE B&M stores are intrested in selling this product right now.
At a $1,000 price tag, it not like it is a "spontaneous" purchase at these two stores. It is usually one mulled on, then researched on the net, (and to see if it is at a lower price), ect...
Good Guys, Tweeter , UE , ABT are in the same boat as VE. When it comes to pecking order. Just because your a B&M doesn't mean you automatically trump an Internet Only store.
Posted by: mchaney
I've been lurking here and watching this thread grow for a few days. I'm a member of the AVS forums and didn't find this board until a few days ago. Wish I had found it back in January when I still had a chance to get in the top 200 at VE. Has anyone thought about the fact that smooth and timely rollout of *any* new product is a rare thing? I'd actually be surprised if the new HD Tivo really hits the U.S. exactly on the specified date. I've waited for brand new products before with known shipping dates only to have them get stuck in customs or have some other problem. When coming from outside the U.S. these things can get stuck in U.S. customs for anywhere between 3 days and 10 days especially for a new/unknown product. Has this already been factored in to the 3/31 date?
I'll be looking forward to the first reviews. I'm particularly interested in whether or not the HR10-250 has stretch modes like a Panorama mode for SD viewing and playback. I find that an important thing when viewing on a plasma and hope someone will give some quick feedback when they get one of these things.
Regards,
Mike
Posted by: turls
What? Its the only HD DTivo. There were/are dozens of HDTV's to choose from. The only thing special about it was that it was the first reasonably priced DLP.
quote:
Originally posted by slocko
Even though it's an expensive item, it just doesn't have a high profile like a TV costing $3000.
Posted by: leesweet
Mike, you didn't 'find' this board? It's listed on the forum list at AVS! :) As another heavy poster, I didn't come here either until I broke down and ordered the TiVo, but this will be a great place to see how the HD unit (oops) performs. Sure you don't want to preorder? :D
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by mchaney
I've been lurking here and watching this thread grow for a few days. I'm a member of the AVS forums and didn't find this board until a few days ago. Wish I had found it back in January when I still had a chance to get in the top 200 at VE. Has anyone thought about the fact that smooth and timely rollout of *any* new product is a rare thing? I'd actually be surprised if the new HD Tivo really hits the U.S. exactly on the specified date. I've waited for brand new products before with known shipping dates only to have them get stuck in customs or have some other problem. When coming from outside the U.S. these things can get stuck in U.S. customs for anywhere between 3 days and 10 days especially for a new/unknown product. Has this already been factored in to the 3/31 date?
I'll be looking forward to the first reviews. I'm particularly interested in whether or not the HR10-250 has stretch modes like a Panorama mode for SD viewing and playback. I find that an important thing when viewing on a plasma and hope someone will give some quick feedback when they get one of these things.
The unit is known NOT to have a "panorama" (non-linear stretch) mode.
The unit is also known NOT to have a native-rate mode but instead always will output a fixed resolution of your choice. It can be changed via the remote (toggled, at least, no word on discrete codes to set output resolution/format).
The unit is known NOT to output composite/s-video when outputting anything but 480i (480p too maybe? -- I don't really know).
And it seems the unit is known NOT to output component simultaneously with DVI -- though that one I really find hard to believe, so I take a wait and see on it.
Now all that said, it's still usable. :) But I'm sorely disappointed by every single one of those omissions.
Posted by: leesweet
Doug, I agree on the ugh-factor on all of those, except for the last. My Sony 300 doesn't even do that... you have to flip a hard switch to go from DVI to Component and back... I'm really surprised at no pan stretch, though. Sometimes you want to use all your real estate, and not make the middle of the screen a blob!
Posted by: slocko
To us maybe, but to those outside this circle, this will be met with a big yawn.
A $3000 TV is something the average joe can get excited about. HD-Tivo, nope.
quote:
Originally posted by turls
What? Its the only HD DTivo. There were/are dozens of HDTV's to choose from. The only thing special about it was that it was the first reasonably priced DLP.
Posted by: mchaney
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The unit is known NOT to have a "panorama" (non-linear stretch) mode.
Ouch! Does it at least allow you to stretch to fill a 16:9 screen with an SD broadcast? I'm hoping it will at least have a stretch mode and a "zoom" mode. No?
That'd be a deal killer for me. Watching a 4:3 program on my 16:9 plasma will eventually cause problems with the screen. If I can't have "panorama" mode then I guess I could deal with a stretch mode that makes people look fat as long as it didn't burn my plasma display unevenly. :(
Mike
Posted by: Plugplay
Order #: 53974
March 14, 2004 12:26 PM
Posted by: turls
I don't even have a pre-order. Why would I read every single post? But I have read a good percentage.
But no my questions are not all answered here. I still don't know what the pecking order is that I'm "clueless" on.
Good point though about the fact they DirecTV might want the units in service sooner rather than later . . . that is different than many CE items, including the one I'm comparing to. Does it override all other considerations? I doubt it. Many are probably going to existing subs, so it isn't make or break.
quote:
Originally posted by dropper
Have you read any of this board? I know it's long, buy there are answers to all of your questions.. . . Robert has a track record of getting units before the B&M's. Being good at turnover is what companies like. I would rather ship to VE and know that I will be putting 450 into immediate service, than 1000 to BB where they could sit on shelves. They make their real money on subscriptions. The sooner they get their $40/month, the happier they are.
Posted by: Kamakzie
Can anyone confirm if that is true??
quote:
Originally posted by tivowevo
i am confused.
i called VE and they told me that the HDTivo will not hit the shelves until late april due to issues with the unit.
Posted by: Tom in OH
I'll have to agree with doug on being disappointed about no simultaneous output on DVI and component. Whatever the situation, we'll learn to live with it.
Another big disappointment for me is the remote. I wish it had a pivot button in the middle for up, down, left & right opposed to 4 buttons surrounding a center. Sony units have the pivot button and they are superior. The thumb never has to leave the remote which makes it more convenient... quibble quibble quibble....
Posted by: sonnyducks
quote:
If the factory is building them they should be slapping together thousands. I hope... :)
I agree...the numbers we are hearing are way too low for the US market. I think that most of the numbers getting thrown around are what VE is expecting to get NOT total production.
I think the activity on the board prooves the amount of intrest in this product. Selling 1000 of these things would net $1 million. I think those are the kinds of numbers that BB/CC like. IF (and I said IF) Best Buy got 1000 units on Thrusday...and they are available in the big markets most people I would think would cancel their pre-order if they could get them at the local Best Buy.
I don't know about you guys but I think I just gave myself "tired-head" on this subject. Sorry if I gave it to anybod else.
Besides...why aren't we talking about the big news of the day....Cowboys frst game this year will be vs Vikings!!! As long as I have my HD Tivo for that game... I'm OK.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by mchaney
Ouch! Does it at least allow you to stretch to fill a 16:9 screen with an SD broadcast? I'm hoping it will at least have a stretch mode and a "zoom" mode. No?
That'd be a deal killer for me. Watching a 4:3 program on my 16:9 plasma will eventually cause problems with the screen. If I can't have "panorama" mode then I guess I could deal with a stretch mode that makes people look fat as long as it didn't burn my plasma display unevenly. :(
I'm not sure about zoom modes (it might be in the FAQ, but I'm not gonna go look :) ), but it can do a linear stretch.
For my circumstance, I'll just switch to 480i or 480p output and let my Fujitsu P50 do the non-linear stretch when I'm watching 4:3 material. So I'm not totall inconvenienced. I do seriously hope it has (or eventually gets via software update or hack) a way to control it with a discrete code.
I believe someone from TiVo did say that a non-linear stretch mode was unlikely to be added via software but a native rate output option could be added in the software. But whether it can be added means it eventually will be added is another thing.
Posted by: slocko
i am also surprised that someone at VE said that.
i think tivowevo is a spy sent by GoodGuys to cause mayhem in the VE ranks!!!! :)
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Can anyone confirm if that is true??
Let's all call Good Guys and ask. Anyone have their number?
I'm pretty sure Robert is aware of this thread and would use it to let us know of any significant changes over what he's told us in this thread already.
Posted by: Marco
quote:
Originally posted by slocko
i am also surprised that someone at VE said that.
i think tivowevo is a spy sent by GoodGuys to cause mayhem in the VE ranks!!!! :)
Noooooo! :eek:
Just because he has all of *one* post ...
Just because he didn't give any *specific* information ... about when he called, who he spoke with, what date he was told, what problems there were with the unit?
Why shouldn't we believe he's got the story 100% right? :eek:
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The unit is known NOT to have a "panorama" (non-linear stretch) mode.
I know some people are in love with this, but for an OAR geek like me, it's meaningless. Grey bars on the side for SD programming is sufficient.
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The unit is also known NOT to have a native-rate mode but instead always will output a fixed resolution of your choice. It can be changed via the remote (toggled, at least, no word on discrete codes to set output resolution/format).
A native mode would be disastrous on older sets (like mine) that can only accept 1080i. I recognize the utility of such a mode, but if/when it's added, it better be configurable (ie: output 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, native)
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The unit is known NOT to output composite/s-video when outputting anything but 480i (480p too maybe? -- I don't really know).
With SD TiVos at $49 or less, there's no reason to want SD output from a HD TiVo.
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
And it seems the unit is known NOT to output component simultaneously with DVI -- though that one I really find hard to believe, so I take a wait and see on it.
If this is the case, I'd guess it's due to their HDCP implementation -- it could be confusing to have your component output, which usually works in concert with DVI, periodically shut off. Then again, I don't even pretend to understand HDCP, so feel free to ignore me on this point.
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Now all that said, it's still usable. :) But I'm sorely disappointed by every single one of those omissions.
Couldn't care less about any of the omissions, here. Bring on the HD TiVolution!
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
Another big disappointment for me is the remote. I wish it had a pivot button in the middle for up, down, left & right opposed to 4 buttons surrounding a center. Sony units have the pivot button and they are superior. The thumb never has to leave the remote which makes it more convenient... quibble quibble quibble....
Are you a little backwards with the description, perhaps?
The SAT-T60 remote uses 4 discrete buttons. A (FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR)^(FAR FAR FAR) superior layout. The single pivoting circle is horrible and an insult to usability.
Now, ask me how I really feel? :p
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_1/images/sony-sat-t60-remote-control.jpg
Posted by: sonnyducks
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Let's all call Good Guys and ask. Anyone have their number?
Thanks Doug...my tired-head went away.
Posted by: Marco
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
With SD TiVos at $49 or less, there's no reason to want SD output from a HD TiVo.
Actually, there are reasons. I'm staring this situation in the face, myself.
Currently I have hi-def ready set and DTiVo in basement, and SD set in living room ... the TiVo output is split and sent to both screens. The SD set was purchased in 1990 and only has coaxial and composite inputs.
I will need to choose between keeping this relationship and moving the DTiVo to the living room.
If I move the DTiVo ...
I have another receiver to pay for @ $5 mirroring fee.
I have to get a 5x8 multiswitch ($80 minimum).
I have to wire two more cable lines (not *that* hairy, but non-trivial in my house).
I have to think about what Season Passes etc. should be on each box.
I may have to change rooms, depending on what I want to watch.
If I replace DTiVo with HD-DTivo:
I have to replace the coax from downstairs with composite cable, perhaps 50' worth. So I'd have to buy that (~$50, looks like).
Because I have to change from coax to composite, I may have to get a switch box or modulator to hook that and the DVD player to the upstairs SD television, since it's lacking in inputs.
I can keep the current arrangement when I can access the programming on the downstairs TiVo, upstairs (SD only, of course).
I haven't decided which way to go yet.
Posted by: sotapoppy
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
I know some people are in love with this, but for an OAR geek like me, it's meaningless. Grey bars on the side for SD programming is sufficient.
I agree. I haven't found a stretch I like, especially the panorama that looks like a fishbowl to me. :eek:
After a few minutes in 4:3 I forget about the bars. Also, I thought screen burn could be mitigated quite a bit by keeping brightness settings, etc. at a reasonable level
Posted by: turls
Sure there is. PIP implementations if nothing else. Maybe I'm watching a live HD sporting event on one DirecTV box and I'm catching up on SD Tivo'ed items on my HD DTivo in a PIP window.
Its just a silly thing to leave out at this price point.
Who cares if they are $49 to buy, its the $5 monthly fee per box that makes basic features like this important for any unit.
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
With SD TiVos at $49 or less, there's no reason to want SD output from a HD TiVo.
Posted by: Tom in OH
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dswallow
[B]Are you a little backwards with the description, perhaps?
The SAT-T60 remote uses 4 discrete buttons. A (FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR)^(FAR FAR FAR) superior layout. The single pivoting circle is horrible and an insult to usability.
-----------------------
I see what u mean given the picture of that remote. I don't know why Sony changed it. I've been using a Sony Directv receiver (SD) since 1996 and the remote is FAR FAR FAR superior than the crap Zenith included with the HD SAT520. I know u(doug) are familiar with that remote. It has the 4 buttons surrounding the center just like the one in the picture. I luv that single pivot button on the Sony for surfing. I find it far superior. But maybe that's just me.
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The SAT-T60 remote uses 4 discrete buttons. A (FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR)^(FAR FAR FAR) superior layout. The single pivoting circle is horrible and an insult to usability.
You, sir, are correct. Fortunately, my Harmony 659's directional controls are closer to Sony than TiVo in implementation.
Posted by: slocko
Tom I think you are the only one that loves that arrangement :)
I prefer the arrow keys with select in the middle.
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by turls
Who cares if they are $49 to buy, its the $5 monthly fee per box that makes basic features like this important for any unit.
That makes sense. I'm used to having a separate, subbed, DirecTiVo on each TV, and a separate HD DirecTV receiver on my main TV, so the mirroring will be a wash, while still giving me the ability to TiVo SD on my SAT-T60.
I still don't get the whole PIP thing.
Step 1) Watch your SD TiVod program
Step 2) Watch some of the live sporting event until you catch up to live.
Step 3) Repeat.
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by jeepintivo
I'm not looking to start a big discussion here, but try as I might I haven't been able to convince my wife to let me get the HD Tivo. So I've decided to put my pre order position up on eBay. I am in the first group of 100 pre orders so you could have one by the end of this week :D
I'd like to come out ahead on this since I won't be getting to HD Tivo for awhile (is that a verb :) and I'm not shy about saying I think this is capitalism at work.
Anyway for those who might be interested the item number is 3088342004 or just search for HDTIVO
Good luck and congrats to those getting a unit this week!
What happen to your auction? You closed it early with no bids.
Posted by: Tom in OH
I don't understand how anyone could like the separate discrete 4 buttons around the center button better than a pivot. To go up in a menu, u have to lift your thumb up off the middle button and physically push the upper button. And the same motion for moving right or left, or down. It's much harder and slower if u ask me having 5 buttons instead of one single round pivot. With the pivot, u simply shift right, left, down, or up and click all with the same button... much easier.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by turls
Sure there is. PIP implementations if nothing else. Maybe I'm watching a live HD sporting event on one DirecTV box and I'm catching up on SD Tivo'ed items on my HD DTivo in a PIP window.
Its just a silly thing to leave out at this price point.
Who cares if they are $49 to buy, its the $5 monthly fee per box that makes basic features like this important for any unit.
We won't see PIP incorporated into this model, however the potential for PIP is there since the BroadCom chipset that's one higher in model number than the BroadCom chipset used in the HR10-250 supports PIP.
I had PIP on my RPTV. I used it about 4 times, said "cool" to myself then never used it in the real world once. So I know I won't be one to clamor for it. :)
But if it were there as a feature, I wouldn't be screaming that it was a waste of money and they should've left it off. I'm sure there's practical uses for it -- front door camera, baby monitor camera, sports freaks... ;)
The price point on the unit is sufficient that these little things should be there if at all possible. Each person watches programming in different ways, and to accommodate more variations would be a good thing.
Posted by: slocko
i'm guessing since he hadn't received the forms and faxed them back, he couldn't guarantee a first place in the line.
or his wife had a change of heart when he presented her with a diamond :)
Posted by: btwyx
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
With SD TiVos at $49 or less, there's no reason to want SD output from a HD TiVo.
There's a very practical reason for me, its WAF. The wife does not like "Blinking Black Boxes" (even if they arn't black), and there are too many already. Adding a box is problomatic, substituting a box is easy. Anyay, having all the programming in one place seems sensible to me.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
I don't understand how anyone could like the separate discrete 4 buttons around the center button better than a pivot. To go up in a menu, u have to lift your thumb up off the middle button and physically push the upper button. And the same motion for moving right or left, or down. It's much harder and slower if u ask me having 5 buttons instead of one single round pivot. With the pivot, u simply shift right, left, down, or up and click all with the same button... much easier.
You slide yuor thumb around, you don't lift it up, move it, then place it down again.
It makes it clear what you're pressing; you don't accidentally press something (like the center button) because you've got your thumb mispositioned.
The pivot thing is the one thing about the MX-700 I hate, too. And I mean HATE. Were it not for everything else about the remote, I'd never consider a remote with a pivot button at all. Unless it ALSO had discrete buttons. But I don't want the functionality I use regularly to be a pivot button.
Posted by: sotapoppy
quote:
Originally posted by Shark73
What happen to your auction? You closed it early with no bids.
If more time is needed to convince the wife, maybe you wanna swap places in line :p
Posted by: Stuigi
I told him about all the anxiety i am under awaiting this new tivo. i tsaid i couldnt relax sleep or function and i needed to lose the next two days. He wrote me a script, i set my alarm for 4/1 at 330 pm when ups arrives and all hopefully will be ok.
see you guys on the first!
Posted by: neilaevans
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
I don't understand how anyone could like the separate discrete 4 buttons around the center button better than a pivot. To go up in a menu, u have to lift your thumb up off the middle button and physically push the upper button. And the same motion for moving right or left, or down. It's much harder and slower if u ask me having 5 buttons instead of one single round pivot. With the pivot, u simply shift right, left, down, or up and click all with the same button... much easier.
I'm with you Tom. And even better than just the pivot is the pivot surrounded by transport controls ala the MX500/MX700. Absolutely perfect arrangement to me. All the buttons I need available with very little thumb movement.
That's why I can't understand why people like the Harmony so much...the directional buttons and transport controls seem too far apart.
Posted by: MCodanti
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
And it seems the unit is known NOT to output component simultaneously with DVI -- though that one I really find hard to believe, so I take a wait and see on it.
So you are saying you don't believe TiVoPony? That is where the information came from. (In a post on a Yahoo Group.)
Posted by: midas
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
I don't understand how anyone could like the separate discrete 4 buttons around the center button better than a pivot. To go up in a menu, u have to lift your thumb up off the middle button and physically push the upper button. And the same motion for moving right or left, or down. It's much harder and slower if u ask me.
Just amazing how everyone is different. No matter how it's designed, someone will complain. Well complain is probably too strong a word. For the record, I agree with you regarding the buttons. Of course, I use an MX-700 so whatever the remote looks like won't matter to me.
As far as output at the same time to all the different connections, doesn't bother me a bit. The HDTivo is designed to be hooked up to a TV. The operative word is 'A'. If you want a video distribution system, buy one.
Stretch modes don't bother me either. I hate stretch modes. Of course, I have a CRT based display. So I don't worry about burn-in.
No native mode doesn't bother me, my set doesn't do 720p. But I will miss the hybrid mode of my old Panasonic.
So this unit is perfect for me. But that's me. I understand other people not being happy. I just hope 29 of the first 200 are unhappy enough to cancel before Wednesday :D
Hey, I'm gonna keep trying that one till it works!
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by MCodanti
So you are saying you don't believe TiVoPony? That is where the information came from. (In a post on a Yahoo Group.)
I really wasn't aware of the source of it, not having seen the post myself; only the third-party report concerning it.
I only find it hard to believe in that this would be the first device I've ever heard of that generates component and DVI output, but not both simultaneously. It just seems wholly backwards considering the video signal is available at the correct clock rate to generate it each way. Unlike when you're wanting S-Video and composite simultaneously and have to be feeding the signal through much different circuitry to downconvert and generate it.
Posted by: Tom in OH
given your description I might luv the MX-700. Maybe I'll pick one up to control my myriad of electrics.... Every once in a while, it happens.... the thumb pushes slightly to the right instead of up and the desired movement goes right or left instead of the intended direction but I'm just used to it I guess. It might also have something to do with the fact that the 8 yr/old Sony remote works so much better than the year old Zenith remote. I have to push the Zenith buttons very hard sometimes to make them work.
Posted by: leesweet
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Can anyone confirm if that [VE quote] is true??
Well, that could be technically true. None will 'HIT' the shelves because none will be there, because they are all being shipped to preorder-ers! As for 'issues', issues could range from 'not enough' being made to anything. FUD is rampant in this phase of a new product's life cycle.
I'd really not believe anything I'm told over the phone except by Robert, since you don't know who may have been hired to handle the slew of calls from people who are googling the unit, seeing the website, and calling to see what the scoop is.
They are probably being told to tell everyone to f'off until mid-April on general principles until the dust settles and *we* are all out of their hair! :)
Posted by: neilaevans
Tom,
Check out the review on remotecentral.com (and I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive and I've suggested the review to you before...I'm basically a MX700 pimp).
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
given your description I might luv the MX-700. Maybe I'll pick one up to control my myriad of electrics.... Every once in a while, it happens.... the thumb pushes slightly to the right instead of up and the desired movement goes right or left instead of the intended direction but I'm just used to it I guess. It might also have something to do with the fact that the 8 yr/old Sony remote works so much better than the year old Zenith remote. I have to push the Zenith buttons very hard sometimes to make them work.
I've never really used the Zenith remote since I got the HD-SAT520 at the same time as the MX-700, it got used while I was setting things up, and shortly thereafter was retired. I don't even recall what the layout looks like.
Posted by: jnangano
Add me to the pre-order list.
# 73
Order Type: Email/Voice/Fax
Order ID: 1254X
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
given your description I might luv the MX-700. Maybe I'll pick one up to control my myriad of electrics.... Every once in a while, it happens.... the thumb pushes slightly to the right instead of up and the desired movement goes right or left instead of the intended direction but I'm just used to it I guess. It might also have something to do with the fact that the 8 yr/old Sony remote works so much better than the year old Zenith remote. I have to push the Zenith buttons very hard sometimes to make them work.
Tom,
As a fellow Ohioan, I will recommend the MX-700 to you. I have the Sat-520 as well. HD-TiVo pre-ordered for delivery on Thursday. The MX-700 is the best remote I've ever used.
Jim
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by neilaevans
Tom,
Check out the review on remotecentral.com (and I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive and I've suggested the review to you before...I'm basically a MX700 pimp).
If u mentioned it before, I didn't see it. I'll check it out or doug could sell me his....
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
If u mentioned it before, I didn't see it. I'll check it out or doug could sell me his....
Not. For. Sale. There's nothing better in existence. I have two of them actually... the MX-700 and a B&K branded version of it.
(Harmony remotes suck.) :p
Posted by: hongcho
> I only find it hard to believe in that this would be the first device I've ever heard of that generates component and DVI output, but not both simultaneously.
Blame the choice of the Broadcom chip both HR10-250 and 921 (I think it is on 921 as well) decided to use. I guess back then (more than a year ago) that was the only choice they had.
Hong.
Posted by: jeepintivo
on the ebay cancelation:
Lets just say I was trying to keep everyone happy and I think I may have achieved that.
On another note of FUD, a friend who works at Tweeter says that they are getting 120+ units on April 15th and that they already have pre-orders lined up as well. Who knows whether they will actually get them or not.
Everyone enjoy your new units! I can live vicariously if nothing else.
Posted by: Tom in OH
The MX-700 is the best remote I've ever used.
--------------------
must be a good one then (and it even has a pivot.... hmmm....)
Posted by: TomB
Well, talked to Ultimate Electronics today, and they checked their system, and it shows that my pre-ordered HD Tivo is on the truck from their warehouse to the store, scheduled to arrive on Friday. I guess that means that UI got some of those early builds, and that there weren't that many pre-orders through them..... (I ordered on March 4th)
Will certainly let you know if it actually shows up......
And the Home Theater Store near the UI store is indicating they will make me a good deal on the new Fujitsu P55 (oh please, oh please)!!!!
Sometimes you win.....
Posted by: MCodanti
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
I really wasn't aware of the source of it, not having seen the post myself; only the third-party report concerning it.
I only find it hard to believe in that this would be the first device I've ever heard of that generates component and DVI output, but not both simultaneously. It just seems wholly backwards considering the video signal is available at the correct clock rate to generate it each way. Unlike when you're wanting S-Video and composite simultaneously and have to be feeding the signal through much different circuitry to downconvert and generate it.
For anyone interested you can see TiVoPony's post over on the Yahoo groups.
I'm sure there is a reason they did it that way, and it may be HDCP related.
Posted by: tomr
According to one of the forms we had to send back to VE:
The charge will be put through no earlier than 5 business days before we ship your order.
Here's hoping my CC gets hit tonight!!!.
Posted by: rogo
All this blather has me confused.... Do we have any reason to believe units are >>not<< shipping Wednesday?
Mark
Posted by: TomB
Well, Rogo, based on my latest conversation with UI, I cannot see any reason why Robert wouldn't have his on the way....
Posted by: TomB
Oh, and a post to get me to the 100 mark (hey, this thread has been all over the place.... one more post won't hurt it...)
:-)
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by TomB
Oh, and a post to get me to the 100 mark (hey, this thread has been all over the place.... one more post won't hurt it...)
:-)
I'm not really sure, but I think this thread already has been used as a YAMM, so you're probably not the first. ;)
Posted by: neilaevans
quote:
Originally posted by TomB
Oh, and a post to get me to the 100 mark (hey, this thread has been all over the place.... one more post won't hurt it...)
:-)
Not bad TomB...your 100th post AND #3500 in the thread. A solid twofer...
Posted by: Todd
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
You slide yuor thumb around, you don't lift it up, move it, then place it down again.
It makes it clear what you're pressing; you don't accidentally press something (like the center button) because you've got your thumb mispositioned.
The pivot thing is the one thing about the MX-700 I hate, too. And I mean HATE. Were it not for everything else about the remote, I'd never consider a remote with a pivot button at all. Unless it ALSO had discrete buttons. But I don't want the functionality I use regularly to be a pivot button.
I LOVE the pivot button on my MX-500!! And having all the other buttons directly around it is nearly perfect. How you would prefer a different layout is beyond me.... :confused: :D
Posted by: Shark73
Has anyone called Robert today?
Posted by: hongcho
I am a bit ambivalent about the pivot buttons on my MX-700. I don't mind it and it looks cool and all, I often make mistakes when I try to just push the "select" and the other directional keys get pressed before the select.
Hong.
Posted by: rogo
Thanks Tom.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by Todd
I LOVE the pivot button on my MX-500!! And having all the other buttons directly around it is nearly perfect. How you would prefer a different layout is beyond me.... :confused: :D
I couldn't agree more. I love the MX-500, especially since I got IR-Clone. I've already got it mapped out for the HD TiVo. All I need to do is learn the new remote into the IR-Clone & I'm all set.
Posted by: cheridave
I will be really surprised if anybody received their HD-TIVO on 01 April as some are claiming. Even if Robert received all 200 units on the 31st of Mar we don't know what time of the day this will occur. Then what about all the pre-shipment preparations that must be done, i.e. additional packaging, labels, receipts, shipping documents, etc. Robert is not going to prepare one package and then drive down to UPS- he most likely will prepare all packages for shipment and then God only knows how much effort or time will be spent with UPS preparing all their documents for shipment. I think you get my drift. I don't even know if 02 Apr is achievable for those who requested Overnight Delivery.
HD-TIVO Day is now less than 48 hrs.
Good luck.
Dave
Posted by: midas
Why? He can have all the shipping labels already printed. Same with the invoices. He could probably turn all 200 over in less than a few hours.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by cheridave
I will be really surprised if anybody received their HD-TIVO on 01 April as some are claiming. Even if Robert received all 200 units on the 31st of Mar we don't know what time of the day this will occur. Then what about all the pre-shipment preparations that must be done, i.e. additional packaging, labels, receipts, shipping documents, etc. Robert is not going to prepare one package and then drive down to UPS- he most likely will prepare all packages for shipment and then God only knows how much effort or time will be spent with UPS preparing all their documents for shipment. I think you get my drift. I don't even know if 02 Apr is achievable for those who requested Overnight Delivery.
HD-TIVO Day is now less than 48 hrs.
Logistically I don't see it being a problem. I expect the receivers would get shipped in their existing boxes, so we're basically talking about slapping a prepared label on each box and pulling a serial number label off each box to update his paperwork. Undoubtedly Robert has an account with UPS and with FedEx so whichever gets used, there'd be no paperwork at the depot, only dropping them off.
The effort of charging everyone's credit card for the balance would present more problems and consume more time.
Posted by: jdk
My guess is that these boxes are being drop-shipped directly from the border.
In other words, Robert will never see the boxes.
And with things called computers, databases and spreadsheets, people today can set up shipment of thousands of items with the click of a few buttons...
For example, I work for a very large high-tech company. The vast majority of our items are built by contract manufacturers, like Solectron, overseas. The items are loaded with our software, packaged with our documentation and boxed in our labeled boxes at their factory, and then shipped to distributors or even customers straight from the manufacturer. The sale, shipment and billing are all handled electronincally by us, so we never handle a single physical thing, but the customer ends up with our product in his or her hands.
Posted by: DTV TiVo Dealer
quote:
Originally posted by Starrbuck
I can't seem to get a reply from Robert on my sequence number. Here's my order information. Anyone care to take a guess on my position?
Order #: 53554
Order confirmation email received at: Fri 01/16/2004 2:17 PM Central Time
I know where I think I am but I'd like someone to come to a similar conclusion. Thanks! :-)
Your #21, congratulations!
Posted by: PJO1966
Nobody can ever acuse Robert of being overly chatty! Robert, any comment on all the wild speculation floating about?
Posted by: DTV TiVo Dealer
quote:
Originally posted by jdk
My guess is that these boxes are being drop-shipped directly from the border.
In other words, Robert will never see the boxes.
And with things called computers, databases and spreadsheets, people today can set up shipment of thousands of items with the click of a few buttons...
For example, I work for a very large high-tech company. The vast majority of our items are built by contract manufacturers, like Solectron, overseas. The items are loaded with our software, packaged with our documentation and boxed in our labeled boxes at their factory, and then shipped to distributors or even customers straight from the manufacturer. The sale, shipment and billing are all handled electronincally by us, so we never handle a single physical thing, but the customer ends up with our product in his or her hands.
I am going to the distribution warehouse to assist in the shipping. I will post photo's.
Posted by: hongcho
I was thinking about the comments about the 800 units/week production rate being too low. That is, assuming 40 hours/week, 20 units/hour, or 3 minutes/unit. I don't know anything about manufacturing, but for the initial production runs (assuming some will fail the initial tests), it doesn't seem to be that low...
Hong.
Posted by: hongcho
> I am going to the distribution warehouse to assist in the shipping. I will post photo's.
Robert has spoken! My late Christmas day is getting really close! :p
EDIT: Safe trip out to the West Coast, Robert. We don't want you to get into trouble. :)
Hong.
Posted by: DTV TiVo Dealer
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Logistically I don't see it being a problem. I expect the receivers would get shipped in their existing boxes, so we're basically talking about slapping a prepared label on each box and pulling a serial number label off each box to update his paperwork. Undoubtedly Robert has an account with UPS and with FedEx so whichever gets used, there'd be no paperwork at the depot, only dropping them off.
The effort of charging everyone's credit card for the balance would present more problems and consume more time.
Doug, you are correct again as usual. We are preparing the shipping labels in the early AM while waiting for the truck. I will be cracking the whip in the warehouse and working along side of the shippers.
Posted by: mainecooncat
"The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last."
- Willy Wonka
Posted by: jdk
quote:
Originally posted by mainecooncat
"The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last."
- Willy Wonka
Very appropriate quote. I always find that the anticipation of a new toy/gadget/thing leads to somewhat of a letdown a few days after it actually arrives.
So, enjoy the anticipation, and then enjoy the HD Tivo when it arrives too!
Posted by: DTV TiVo Dealer
quote:
Originally posted by Shark73
Has anyone called Robert today?
About 600 or more calls plus several hundred emails.
Posted by: dandrewk
Weather forcast for San Diego this week - Temps in the mid 60's. Partly cloudy. Slight chance of rain on Wed.
Have a good trip Robert, and good luck!
Posted by: dandrewk
Oh, and I forgot to ask you Robert: Will you be able to email us tracking info? Ya know, something for us to check every 5 minutes or so on Thursday, waiting for the UPS guy.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
About 600 or more calls plus several hundred emails.
Slow day, huh?
Posted by: Kamakzie
Robert, you da man! Since I am #220 I will be anxious around this time next week! :D
Posted by: Kamakzie
So basically 4:3 content on a 16:9 set will have bars on the side? If so that will be great for me. I despise that stretch crap. Makes everyone look fat!
quote:
Originally posted by midas
Stretch modes don't bother me either. I hate stretch modes. Of course, I have a CRT based display. So I don't worry about burn-in.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by dandrewk
Oh, and I forgot to ask you Robert: Will you be able to email us tracking info? Ya know, something for us to check every 5 minutes or so on Thursday, waiting for the UPS guy.
Are you saying we're compulsive? I mean... just because I check every 30 seconds on the progress of my HDS20 being sold on eBay doesn't mean I'm compulsive... nope... not me.
Damn... it's still at $16.02! Only 4 days and 20 hours to go.
Posted by: hongcho
Not to be pessimistic, but if some people get DOA units from the first batch, I wonder, how VE will handle it. A) Get the next one from the next pre-order allocation, or B) Wait till all the pre-orders get shipped and then ship the replacement units.
Just being myself, Mr. Somewhat-Pessimistic. :p
Hong.
Posted by: ebonovic
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
Not to be pessimistic, but if some people get DOA units from the first batch, I wonder, how VE will handle it. A) Get the next one from the next pre-order allocation, or B) Wait till all the pre-orders get shipped and then ship the replacement units.
Just being myself, Mr. Somewhat-Pessimistic. :p
Hong.
You had to go and say it...... Ah man...
Posted by: midas
quote:
Originally posted by PJO1966
Are you saying we're compulsive? I mean... just because I check every 30 seconds on the progress of my HDS20 being sold on eBay doesn't mean I'm compulsive... nope... not me.
Damn... it's still at $16.02! Only 4 days and 20 hours to go.
Don't worry, mine didn't break the $200 mark until the morning the auction ended. But when it ended at 9pm (CST) it hit $355.
Posted by: hongcho
> So basically 4:3 content on a 16:9 set will have bars on the side?
That or the "fat-people" (or horizontally-challenged) mode. I kind of wish for a Zoom mode (for letter-boxed 16x9 on 4x3 frame), but I can always change it to 480i and let the display handle it.
Hong.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Don't worry, mine didn't break the $200 mark until the morning the auction ended. But when it ended at 9pm (CST) it hit $355.
cool... my Buy it Now price is $350.
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
So basically 4:3 content on a 16:9 set will have bars on the side? If so that will be great for me. I despise that stretch crap. Makes everyone look fat!
3 options:
Grey sidebars
Black sidebars
linear stretch (short fat people)
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
Not to be pessimistic, but if some people get DOA units from the first batch, I wonder, how VE will handle it. A) Get the next one from the next pre-order allocation, or B) Wait till all the pre-orders get shipped and then ship the replacement units.
Just being myself, Mr. Somewhat-Pessimistic. :p
Hong.
Robert has said before that he's holding some units back for DOA replacements.
Posted by: Kamakzie
Well just to let you know I have a dedicated tab for this thread in Mozilla Firefox so I can refresh it at will. I must be truly demented!
quote:
Originally posted by PJO1966
Are you saying we're compulsive? I mean... just because I check every 30 seconds on the progress of my HDS20 being sold on eBay doesn't mean I'm compulsive... nope... not me.
Damn... it's still at $16.02! Only 4 days and 20 hours to go.
Posted by: hongcho
My DST-3000 was on a slow week, I think. Having one-day left to go, it was around $300, but it ended up $375. I've heard one go for $430, but alas... :)
Hong.
Posted by: Kamakzie
Some engineer from one of my local stations said that grey is better and black can cause burn in. Is that the case? Or is that just on the plasmas. I only have a 30 inch widescreen CRT.
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
3 options:
Grey sidebars
Black sidebars
linear stretch (short fat people)
Posted by: TreoFred
quote:
Originally posted by dandrewk
Weather forcast for San Diego this week - Temps in the mid 60's. Partly cloudy. Slight chance of rain on Wed.
Have a good trip Robert, and good luck!
You will have missed the temperatures in the 90s we've had in the last few days though :(
Well, I guess a little chilier is all the better: easier to work in a non stuffy warehouse ! :D
I shouldn't care, I'm not even close to being in the first 200 but for some reason, I just can't want for somebody (anybody !!) to start reporting on their new toy! Go Robert ! Keep up the good work and make us drool by sending us photos of mountain high pile of HD-Tivo in the warehouse !
Posted by: hongcho
> Robert has said before that he's holding some units back for DOA replacements.
I know, but that was before DirecTV took over the production and changed the production numbers, AND before VE got so many pre-orders. :)
Yes, still being Mr. Somewhat-Pessimistic. ;)
Hong.
Posted by: hongcho
> Some engineer from one of my local stations said that grey is better and black can cause burn in. Is that the case? Or is that just on the plasmas. I only have a 30 inch widescreen CRT.
For CRTs, it doesn't matter much, I guess (and in that case, I would go with black). But for certain displays which are susceptable to burn-in, grey would work better (not that it is fool-proof).
Hong.
Posted by: captdusty
quote:
For CRTs, it doesn't matter much, I guess
I beg to differ. The RPTV at my workplace has an ESPN logo burned in to the bottom right corner. And I've seen similar things on plenty of direct view tubes as well. Go with gray and/or keep contrast at a reasonable level.
Also, if there's no zoom mode for letterboxed SD content, is this something a firmware upgrade can take care of later?
Posted by: hongcho
Oh, I was talking about CRT direct-view. For RP, yes, it matters.
> Also, if there's no zoom mode for letterboxed SD content, is this something a firmware upgrade can take care of later?
It is software issue, AFAIK. But I am not sure how quick DirecTV/TiVo would act on it. Also, this is not critical, IMHO, because you can change the output format to 480i and let the display handle it if the display has that functionality, which I believe most displays do.
Hong.
Posted by: Todd
quote:
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
I am going to the distribution warehouse to assist in the shipping. I will post photo's.
Photos from the distribution warehouse! You can't get service like that from CC, BB, or GG! :D
Posted by: Marty M
Robert:
(1) Can you post a pdf of the owner's manual? The Hughes site does not include this model. And the FAQ does not include the manual. Someone must have the manual in pdf form since the units are soon to be shipping.
(2) If I recall correctly, the last shipping schedule indicated that 200 would be shipped this week, and 200 next week.
Is that still the case?
Thanks for the response and for posting the owner's manual when it is available.
Posted by: TreoFred
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
Oh, I was talking about CRT direct-view. For RP, yes, it matters.
:confused:
Hong, I'm not sure what you mean: CRT is CRT, they all burn the same AFAIK.
Did I miss something ?
Posted by: Tom in OH
gray bars are less likely to cause uneven wear on a crt tube because black is completely off. It's best to use a stretch mode so there's a moving image on the entire screen but if u must use static bars - drop the contrast and brightness to Very low levels.
Posted by: slocko
Robert, please take my money!!!!!!! charge my card!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: hongcho
> Hong, I'm not sure what you mean: CRT is CRT, they all burn the same AFAIK.
>
> Did I miss something ?
Well, CRT can be used for rear-projection (RP) system and this is an older RPTV system. These days most RPTVs use LCD or DLP, I think.
Anyway, the direct-view CRT TVs do have burn-in, but currently, the effect is very miniscule. Practically speaking, no one should be concerned about a burn-in on a direct-view CRT TV (edit: that is, it takes much much longer to notice the effect).
For the CRT RPTVs, the burn-in is somewhat more severe (this probably has to do with the phosphor technology) and you will often see the warnings of burn-ins (e.g., don't use the unit with game console, etc.).
For most (if at all) LCD or DLP RPTVs, phosphors are not used and nothing (in the color elements) get "used up" (or decay) during the use, so there is no possibility of "uneven decay" (i.e., burn-in).
Am I clear enough (and accurate)? :)
Hong.
Posted by: jdk
Yes, a CRT is a CRT, but generally in RPs, there's a set of 7" or 9" CRTs projecting, that need to be blown up to your large screen size.
Therefore, a RP's CRTs generally run 'hotter' than a direct view CRT. Both will be suceptible to burn in, but an RP might show it sooner.
Posted by: ebonovic
Does this thread official end, after the first HD-Tivo is recieved by someone?
And the sequal thread: BackOrder start up?
Posted by: hongcho
Shouldn't this thread be alive until all the pre-orders are fullfilled?
Hong.
Posted by: dswallow
I just knew we couldn't have a thread with over 3,500 posts and not touch upon the topic of burn-in.
:p
Posted by: Kamakzie
Sure why not!
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
Shouldn't this thread be alive until all the pre-orders are fullfilled?
Hong.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by ebonovic
Does this thread official end, after the first HD-Tivo is recieved by someone?
And the sequal thread: BackOrder start up?
This thread will only officially end when we talk about gay marriage, politics, religion, sex, video extraction, question the moderators decisions, and chastise the forum administrator.
Till then, the damn thing won't die.
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by Todd
Photos from the distribution warehouse! You can't get service like that from CC, BB, or GG! :D
I dunno, maybe if we call Good Guys' corporate office, they'll take some pictures. Anyone have their number? :p
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
This thread will only officially end when we talk about gay marriage, politics, religion, sex, video extraction, question the moderators decisions, and chastise the forum administrator.
Till then, the damn thing won't die.
I thought ybrew was gone? ;)
Posted by: dandrewk
All this discussion about remotes; Not one mention of the best one out there: Philips Pronto.
Take it from me, a confirmed "hard button-o-holic", you get used to the lcd buttons. And it is worth the effort to get the ultimate in programability.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Todd
Photos from the distribution warehouse! You can't get service like that from CC, BB, or GG! :D
So what is it with brick & mortar electronics store names?
Can there only be 23 more chains, then life as we know it stops?
Posted by: TreoFred
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
Am I clear enough (and accurate)? :)
Hong.
yes, thanks :)
quote:
Originally posted by jdk
Yes, a CRT is a CRT, but generally in RPs, there's a set of 7" or 9" CRTs projecting, that need to be blown up to your large screen size.
Therefore, a RP's CRTs generally run 'hotter' than a direct view CRT. Both will be suceptible to burn in, but an RP might show it sooner.
Even better:D
Actually, I should know: I'm getting my CRTs changed on Friday on my 65" Mitsu... A friend burned them 3 years ago (6 month after I got my TV !!!!) while testing is small cheapo portable DVD player that he left on the whole day (without me knowing, of course :eek:)... So I've had some rectangles burned at the bottom of my screen ever since. Long story short, they don't show that much unless I have very contrasted scenes (the desert scenes in Traffic come to mind) and decided not to change them when GG extended warranty person told me it would cost $1200.00, not covered... Of course, now that my HD TiVo is coming (well, someday anyway, being 665 or something like that), I'm bitting the bullet and getting them replaced. :cool:
Posted by: rvaniwaa
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
This thread will only officially end when we talk about gay marriage, politics, religion, sex, video extraction, question the moderators decisions, and chastise the forum administrator.
Till then, the damn thing won't die.
You know, I was wondering if it would be possible to extract video from the HD-TiVo? There are pictures of a friends gay marriage I am interested in viewing on my computer. I know that many of a certain political party are not interested in my support (or lack thereof) of the marriage but for many, this is a religious issue.
--Ron
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by dandrewk
All this discussion about remotes; Not one mention of the best one out there: Philips Pronto.
Take it from me, a confirmed "hard button-o-holic", you get used to the lcd buttons. And it is worth the effort to get the ultimate in programability.
Pick up the remote; don't look at it; now control your home theater system.
Posted by: ebonovic
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
This thread will only officially end when we talk about gay marriage, politics, religion, sex, video extraction, question the moderators decisions, and chastise the forum administrator.
Till then, the damn thing won't die.
But if we do that, then they will delete the thread... Then it will look like the forum doesn't have any activity.
Posted by: midas
No thread officially ends until someone brings up Hitler.
OOOPS!
Posted by: neilaevans
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Pick up the remote; don't look at it; now control your home theater system.
:D
Couldn't have said it better myself
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by midas
No thread officially ends until someone brings up Hitler.
I covered that with my reference to the forum people.
(yeah, I'll stop now... this thread is taking a dangerous turn too soon).
Posted by: gseeg
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
I covered that with my reference to the forum people.
(yeah, I'll stop now... this thread is taking a dangerous turn too soon).
You just love tap dancing in the mine field don't ya Doug. ;)
Posted by: BBobley
Hi,
I just got back from the HDTV Summit. I spent some time hanging out at the DirecTV booth watching their demo HD Tivo. Check out my report over on AVS at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...threadid=385151
Brett
Posted by: jdk
OK, maybe we should summarize the subjects touched on in this thread, and then it could/should be closed:
Some things I can think of:
- pre-ordering an HD DirecTivo
- Pegasus
- Internet vs. B&M
- Extended Warranties
- Ultimate TV
- Replay TV
- SD DirecTivo
- DirecTV Installation options
- New Customer deals
- Pricing/ too expensive/future price?
- Shipping options
- Burn in
- Order queue tracking
- Which Remote?
- Who's gay/straight?
What else was discussed?
Posted by: bpdp379
Identity theft!
What's with your avatar?
Posted by: Tom in OH
when is someone going to complain about the thread being off topic?? go ahead... I dare ya.... ^_^
Posted by: Shark73
Universal Remotes
The Weather in Southern CA
Corporate Phone Numbers
Selling a place in line on eBay
Posted by: hongcho
What we have discussed so far. :p
EDIT: and this has to be the one to mark my 300-th post. :)
Hong.
Posted by: dandrewk
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Pick up the remote; don't look at it; now control your home theater system.
I have macros programmed into the hard buttons. I can turn everything off and on with one button push. I can switch between components and inputs all with one hard button push. There is virtually no limit to the number and length of any macro, and it is painless and fast to write one.
Now for you:
Pick up your remote and find the screen that exactly duplicates the TiVO remote.
No, not the screen that has the same buttons in static columns. The screen that LOOKS just like the TiVO remote.
Now do the same for the screen that controls your receiver, or your monitor, or your HTPC.
...
Can you think of a more elegant way to perform a function? A few seconds on the PC and you can have it anyway you want.
Don't feel like doing all the programming and learning? Go to the website and download other folk's solutions.
And of course, everything is automatically backed up to your PC.
...
There is no substitute for that kind of power, functionality and flexibility. That is why virtually all negative or dubious comments about the Pronto come from people who have never spent time with one.
I had the original Marantz, then the MX500. I never thought I could do without all those hard buttons. I was wrong.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Doug also mentioned that advanced sales of the HD DirecTivo are HUGE. He said they have already sold far, far more than they ever predicted. He said that they have sold so many in advance, that it might be many months before these appear on retail shelves. When I mentioned to him that I had a pre-order in with Value Electronics, he joked that he talks to Robert from Value Electronics twice a day! (So it sounds like Robert is on top of making sure his orders are coming!). Doug confirmed that the first units would ship "very very soon" and "probably within a week." He did say they are doing regression testing right now because they want to make sure all the bugs are worked out.
Thanks for the info BBobley...
Posted by: Tom in OH
just hit me who Doug Swallow looks like... anyone have a guess?
Posted by: hongcho
> Pick up your remote and find the screen that exactly duplicates the TiVO remote.
>
> No, not the screen that has the same buttons in static columns. The screen that LOOKS just like the TiVO remote.
Just curious, why is it importantant to have to look the same as the original remote? That is like learning 5 (or how many there are) different remote layout and functionality. Except for the fact that you have one physical remote, how would that help my wife (for example, not that she is a techno-deficient just in case she visits this thread :p) use all the gears?
If anything, trying to have one interface (or layout) as much as possible without the different "looks" of various remotes, would be an easier way to use, IMO.
Hong.
Posted by: hongcho
> just hit me who Doug Swallow looks like... anyone have a guess?
No. Who do you have in mind?
Hong.
Posted by: steel6
Ok, I am flying through LAX tomorrow on my way back to the east coast from Korea. I wonder if someone would be so kind as to bring my HD-TiVo to the airport for me to cradle in my arms the rest of the flight home...
Skids are for Kids!
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
just hit me who Doug Swallow looks like... anyone have a guess?
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Drew Carey.
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
> just hit me who Doug Swallow looks like... anyone have a guess?
No. Who do you have in mind?
Hong.
Fred Durst
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
just hit me who Doug Swallow looks like... anyone have a guess?
A man who likes to stand next to half-naked men?
:D
Posted by: DTV TiVo Dealer
quote:
Originally posted by steel6
Ok, I am flying through LAX tomorrow on my way back to the east coast from Korea. I wonder if someone would be so kind as to bring my HD-TiVo to the airport for me to cradle in my arms the rest of the flight home...
Skids are for Kids!
Skids is the name of my cousin's company, who manufactures teens clothing.
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
Fred Durst
Really?
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by dandrewk
That is why virtually all negative or dubious comments about the Pronto come from people who have never spent time with one.
And never will. Because it sucks. :p
Yeah, it's a powerful system. More powerful would be the systems that incvorporate some centralized processing and redistribution of the control commands over more reliable transmission mechanisms like serial connections to each device... methods that even can provide feedback.
But they're not practical to use day to day hour to hour.
Of all my remotes, there's only one function I can't perform with the MX-700 (and you couldn't perform it either on the Pronto, I guarantee you) -- audio balancing of the 7 audio channels -- because the Harman Kardon remote has a built-in sound meter and controls the receiver while testing sound levels coming from each channel, ultimately storing the settings.
Ideally, the whole thing would be completely voice controlled and have sufficient AI capabilities tio understand my intent, not just what I say. ;)
But a touch screen solution isn't going to do what I need: to control everything quickly, and easily, while I'm watching TV. That means I don't want to be watching the remote. I want to be watching TV. And it's gotta be workable with one hand (or fewer). And it has to be usable without me taking my eyes off the TV.
Posted by: Shark73
Robert,
Is it UPS or Fedex?
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Shark73
A man who likes to stand next to half-naked men?
:D
He's not half naked. And I'm sitting.
Posted by: dr_mal
I'm a Pronto convert to Harmony. I spent quite a while programming it so my devices all had a consistent look and feel (I wanted consistency between devices, not 5 different UIs depending on what I was controlling). It worked OK, but the transition time between screens was horrible (I had a TSU2000). I ended up using the Pronto + the TiVo remote -- the TiVo remote (by Sony) was perfectly designed for PVR use and try as I might, I couldn't use a touchscreen for day to day usage. I'd need the following hard buttons: left, right, up, down, select, play, pause, ffwd, rewind, volume up, volume down, mute, channel up, and channel down. The TSU2000 had a total of 7 hard buttons.
I like my Harmony 659, but I think I might prefer the 688 with the better-placed transport buttons.
Posted by: hongcho
> He's not half naked. And I'm sitting.
Is the stress on "half"? ;)
Hong.
Posted by: bpdp379
quote:
Originally posted by steel6
Skids are for Kids!
Are you a hawk driver?
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by Shark73
Really?
thx for posting the Fred pic. I figured someone would. Just picture Doug with that black hat on backwards and a mic in his hand... same guy.
Posted by: dandrewk
quote:
Originally posted by hongcho
> Pick up your remote and find the screen that exactly duplicates the TiVO remote.
>
> No, not the screen that has the same buttons in static columns. The screen that LOOKS just like the TiVO remote.
Just curious, why is it importantant to have to look the same as the original remote? That is like learning 5 (or how many there are) different remote layout and functionality. Except for the fact that you have one physical remote, how would that help my wife (for example, not that she is a techno-deficient just in case she visits this thread :p) use all the gears?
If anything, trying to have one interface (or layout) as much as possible without the different "looks" of various remotes, would be an easier way to use, IMO.
Hong.
Precisely my point. Don't like the layout, change it. That is something you cannot do with a static display. The only thing that limits a Pronto is your imagination.
It can greatly help your wife to have a display that is laid out logically and intelligently. A well designed remote will do this for you. This is why I chose the TiVO's remote - one of the better designs I have seen.
One other point - I have seen many remotes that operated many and various pieces of gear. I have yet to see one that looks like the rigid displays and configurations that are standard in most universal remotes.
Sure, you can get used to the static setup. But that doesn't mean it is the best, fastest, easiest or most ergonomic setup. Why do you think manufacturers spend big bucks to come up with the best remote design?
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by dandrewk
Why do you think manufacturers spend big bucks to come up with the best remote design?
Except for Universal Remote manufacturers, you're really going to have to provide some evidence that manufacturers spend ANY attention to designing their remotes. ;)
Posted by: btwyx
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
I'd need the following hard buttons: left, right, up, down, select, play, pause, ffwd, rewind, volume up, volume down, mute, channel up, and channel down. The TSU2000 had a total of 7 hard buttons.
I've got most of those on hard buttons on my Pronto 3000, except I have skip to end and tripple ffwd on hard buttons, rewind is a soft button I have no problem finding by touch. Its just above play. I also have home, system on and system off on hard buttons.
The Pronto 3000 has 17 usable hard buttons, the chan/vol up/down mute up the side, 4 firm buttons below the screen (with soft lables), a cursor pad and 4 buttons surrounding it. With all the screen being programmable, I find I can get twice the functionality on every screen over a 2000.
The 3000 has a few issues with speed, which should be a lot better when I get last Firday's firmware update installed.
Basically I like buttons which tell me what they do, not anonymous rows of buttons which look the same no matter what they do. The 3000 is my favorite compromise, (hopefully not so much of a compromise when I get it updated).
Posted by: dandrewk
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
And never will. Because it sucks. :p
Yeah, it's a powerful system. More powerful would be the systems that incvorporate some centralized processing and redistribution of the control commands over more reliable transmission mechanisms like serial connections to each device... methods that even can provide feedback.
But they're not practical to use day to day hour to hour.
Of all my remotes, there's only one function I can't perform with the MX-700 (and you couldn't perform it either on the Pronto, I guarantee you) -- audio balancing of the 7 audio channels -- because the Harman Kardon remote has a built-in sound meter and controls the receiver while testing sound levels coming from each channel, ultimately storing the settings.
Ideally, the whole thing would be completely voice controlled and have sufficient AI capabilities tio understand my intent, not just what I say. ;)
But a touch screen solution isn't going to do what I need: to control everything quickly, and easily, while I'm watching TV. That means I don't want to be watching the remote. I want to be watching TV. And it's gotta be workable with one hand (or fewer). And it has to be usable without me taking my eyes off the TV.
Amazing how you can come to all those conclusions without even trying a Pronto. I guess it would help if there was a kernel of reality in your assumptions.
A touch screen can't do what you want it to do? I am here to tell you it can. Quite easily and faster than your "no look" hard buttons. All it takes is about 10 minutes in front of a monitor. How in the world do you think it is easier to memorize the location and function of any particular button just because it is a hard button?
Really, the debate is pointless, as your only rationale seems to be "because it sucks"....
Posted by: DTV TiVo Dealer
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
I like my Harmony 659, but I think I might prefer the 688 with the better-placed transport buttons.
I agree, do you like the black or silver finish on the new Harmony 688, " Digital Video Remote" I'm hoping I ordered the silver to back ratio correctly.
Posted by: steel6
quote:
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Skids is the name of my cousin's company, who manufactures teens clothing.
In this case it refers to helicopters with skids (old) versus wheels (new)...:cool:
So is that a no on the LAX hand-off? LoL
Posted by: steel6
quote:
Originally posted by bpdp379
Are you a hawk driver?
AH-64A driver for 10+ years.
Posted by: DTV TiVo Dealer
Sorry Stu, no LAX meeting, I'm too busy getting ready for my marathon shipping day, now if you were my long lost cousin we might have a deal.
Only kidding.
Posted by: steel6
quote:
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Sorry Stu, no LAX meeting, I'm too busy getting ready for my marathon shipping day, now if you were my long lost cousin we might have a deal.
Only kidding.
Well then I will take comfort that mine (#161) will be on a plane right behind me...
Thanks and you have my business for a long long time..
Posted by: Kamakzie
Robert, so you fly out on Wednesday or are you going tomorrow?
Posted by: bmccrea
Robert--
Can you say what shipper you're using for the methods of shipping-- UPS, Fedex... and will you be able to provide tracking numbers?
--Bill
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