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pre-order
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Posted by: JEbbesen
quote:
Originally posted by HofstraJet
I emailed my domain's tech support and they stated that they have started using blacklists a few weeks ago and that Robert's IP address is definitely on most of the lists they use and thus the reason I have not been receiving his emails. On the positive side, I have noticed that my spam has gone down pretty significantly since they started using the blacklists, so it is not entirely a bad thing. Does anybody know of a free account I can set up that uses no filters or at least lets you turn them off? Thanks.
Mailblocks
www.mailblocks.com owned by the guy who started webtv
I use it for 7 different email accounts and it also allows the use of 1 time email addresses
Posted by: hoby
Wow, nearly 4000*, almost as crazy as the HDVR2 waiting thread!
*edited*never mind... past that now. :)
Posted by: LarryInAz
Numero 4000? or did somebody beat me to it? :)
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by bmccrea
He works for Robert.
thanks
Posted by: madpoet
Bah, Dave was lucky 4000 :)
Posted by: leesweet
quote:
Originally posted by sotapoppy
If I received an email yesterday confirming my order of the SST-688 from VE should that mean I should have no problem with other emails?
I would assume that's correct. All of their local manual outbound email should be through the same server.
One complication is that the emails from the webserver (when you created the order, with the e-commerce details) may *not* be from their mailserver, but from the webserver, and probably are not the same machine. Thus you got that, but are not getting other emails. Sigh. Darn blacklists.
Posted by: Toeside
Regarding Dolby logos
I applied for use of Dolby logos last year. They overnighted me an agreement and strict logo use requirements. Before permission is given, you have to send them sampls of how you'll use their logos. Any deviations in the logos will cause a rejection.
I think Doug mentioned that there is no 5.1 logo on Dolby's website. It is possible that DirecTV added this next to the Dolby Digital logo on their own. This would be in violation of the permitted use of the Dolby logo. If the 5.1 was not approved by Dolby Labs, the they would definitely have to fix that before shipping units. Another possibility is the Dolby logos on the box could be mucked up.
We'll know soon enough. Having pre-ordered though Ultimate Electronics, I know I have to be patient anyway. I'll just watch DVDs for the next couple weeks. Matrix Revolutions comes out next week.
Posted by: madpoet
Someone wants to watch that POC more than once??? :)
Posted by: ebockelman
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
For what it's worth, I coud not find any Dolby Digital trademark on Dolby's site that uses the "5.1" nomenclature. Everything is just the Dolby Digital trademark, like this:
http://www.dolby.com/graphics/lic/dolby_digital_reg_108x36.gif
This is what appears on the units shown at CES:
http://www.2150.com/files/directv_hd_dvr_dd51_400x400.jpg
That logo is on a little plastic door covering the access card slot.
Personally, I'd accept my HD DVR with the little door removed and they can ship it to me at my expense whenever they're ready. ;)
I had the same results. If you look at Dolby's Trademarks page they show all of their logos, and they have no specific one for DD5.1.
On page 4 of this PDF they show the Dolby Digital logo with the 5.1 numbers beside it - just like the plastic door on your picture. (Although, this document was meant to show how to display in broadcasts, not on hardware.)
Posted by: dludwig
Doug - here's my info for the list:
Time of Order: 2/8/2004 8:25:19 PM
Order Type: Email
Order ID: 13356
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by madpoet
Someone wants to watch that POC more than once??? :)
Are you referring to Matrix Revolutions? I missed it in the Theatre--newborn...too much going on selling the house, etc. My HDTV gets delivered tomorrow, so I was looking forward to a Matrix Trilogy event on the new TV...
I guess I'll still buy it. I do hope it is better than Reloaded.
Posted by: mchaney
Even if the logo on the door is the only issue, having another production run of those and replacing the existing doors could take a month or more! If the "5.1" is the only issue though, they *might* be able to get away with putting some small color sticker over it (like the DirecTV logo) just to be able to ship the first batch while the fix is worked into the assembly line. Hopefully... Or... just print a slightly larger DD sticker that doesn't have the 5.1 but that is big enough to cover it, and place it over the entire (current) DD 5.1 logo. I guess the only problem is that people tend to try to peel off stickers.
Mike
Posted by: Marco
quote:
Originally posted by dcushing
It's only television.
quote:
Originally posted by dcushing
#8 [/B]
If it's "only television," why did you feel the need to be #8? :D
Talkin' out of both sides of your mouth there, seems like.
:p
Posted by: mknoebel
quote:
Originally posted by sotapoppy
If I received an email yesterday confirming my order of the SST-688 from VE should that mean I should have no problem with other emails?
I don't know. I received a confirmation email after placing my order, but I haven't received any emails from VE since. I never received the forms (but I did get them from someone else and faxed them in). I emailed VE, but never got a response. And I called them on the phone, talked to a woman who said that she would email me the forms immediately, but I never got them. I've checked my junk mail box and there is nothing in there.
So I really don't know if somehow I'm not on the list for emails, or if they just aren't making it through to me.:confused:
Posted by: Darin
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
[b]It is possible that DirecTV added this next to the Dolby Digital logo on their own.
It's possible, but a pretty big mistake if they did. I've dealt with logos for a manufacturer that we rep. Nothing like this where it's actually being put on a consumer-level product, just from the extent of how it can be used on letterhead, business cards, etc. And we're a small company that simply wholesales to commercial contractors. Yet there are VERY specific guidelines on how the logo will look, what exact color it will be, exactly how far other text must be from the logo, etc. You don't just slap something on there on your own without going through some approval process, ESPECIALLY if you're slapping it on something that is being manufactured and sold to the general public.
I'm not saying it's not possible, it's just a pretty stupid blunder to start with, and another one to not catch it until the day they were supposed to be shipping. It COULD be true, but I think there are many more likely things that could be causing the delay.
And as a side note, it seems odd that they'd even put a channel configuration on the box... it doesn't have a decoder, it's just passing the DD bit stream as it is. How many channels are encoded into that signal is irrelevant to the box. Of course, if that's a valid logo for this use, then that's up to Dolby & DirecTV, but personally, I think putting 5.1 on the receiver is a bit misleading. Now, that could be part of the problem, but again, that should have been caught a long time ago.
Posted by: leesweet
quote:
Originally posted by mknoebel
I don't know. I received a confirmation email after placing my order, but I haven't received any emails from VE since. I never received the forms (but I did get them from someone else and faxed them in). I emailed VE, but never got a response. And I called them on the phone, talked to a woman who said that she would email me the forms immediately, but I never got them. I've checked my junk mail box and there is nothing in there.
This is what I was just discussing: the mailserver is likely not the same machine as where the confirmations come from for your web orders. *Every* email after that could have been blocked because their mailserver is on a blacklist. If it *is* on a blacklist your ISP uses, it won't be in a spam folder, it will be rejected, and you will never see it.
I'm in the same boat, and put it up to being at the bottom of the list; but if they say they are sending you stuff, I'd try a completely different email address, like a new hotmail one that doesn't use blacklists. Call and have them send it to a new address.
Posted by: tomr
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
My understanding is they are changing the Dolby Digital emblem and putting these units through some additional testing to see how they will perform under stress, like heat, advanced aging and rough treatment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry but this is pure BS. Not from Robert but from DirecTV. There is No way production would be held up for a Logo. NO WAY. It cost way too much money to hold production and keep a entire plant idle for a week while they re-do a logo. Stress test??? give me a break, that would have been done months ago. NOT NOW. If the two reasons were really true I guarantee someone would lose their job over this. Once a production plant is ready to roll nothing short of a catastrophic failure would prevent them starting.
There is some other reason production is held up to which I have no idea but I suspect is hardware related. Maybe the plant isn't ready who knows but I would bet the farm it is NOT the reasons stated.
and yes I do own a farm!
I can only imagine Robert is pulling his hair out at this time.
Posted by: jeffnoll
quote:
Originally posted by Bryan Lyle
Doug posted this several pages back. It's the exact email that Robert sent out (minus the attachments)
Note:Eventhough Robert stated in the email that shipping would be overnight delivery, he did post in this forum that the shipping method would NOT change unless you specified it (by faxing the form again)
Could someone reference or confirm this? I struck it as odd when I read it. The way the email I got reads it certainly sounds like, 'unless you tell me otherwise I'll zap you for $75 and go overnight.' That doesn't sound at all like Robert or how he would do business, so I'm assuming it was just worded oddly.
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by jeffnoll
Could someone reference or confirm this? I struck it as odd when I read it. The way the email I got reads it certainly sounds like, 'unless you tell me otherwise I'll zap you for $75 and go overnight.' That doesn't sound at all like Robert or how he would do business, so I'm assuming it was just worded oddly.
Robert changed his mind. Whatever shipping method you requested is how the STB will be sent.
Jim
Posted by: jdk
Has anyone considered that DirecTV just wasn't ready to ship today?
I know that getting a product out the door is a very complex process, with many interdependent or serial processes that must take place. And any hiccup in a single step reverberates down the line, meaning delays.
I know that at my company, when we're up against a hard, artificial deadline, like "The end of Q1", rarely does everything go perfectly to meet that date.
So, I'm willing to give DirecTV and Robert the benefit of a doubt. We'll get our boxes soon and all this will be forgotten in a few weeks. Its going to be a nice weekend, so this is a good excuse to get outdoors and enjoy it!
Posted by: slocko
Robert made that statement because the majority of his Cali orders were overnight, but changed to ground once Robert said he was going to ship from Cali. So he simply was offering to upgrade everyone back.
Based on feedback from here, he changed it so that the orders stand as is unless someone refaxes with amend on top.
I think Robert has learned some big lessons here. Next time offer a pre-order and give out as little detail as possible. Offering to ship from Cali just added more work and caused people to switch shipping methods, more faxed paperwork to be received, sorted, computers to be updated, etc.
Posted by: sonnyducks
quote:
Originally posted by tomr
quote:
There is No way production would be held up for a Logo. NO WAY. It cost way too much money to hold production and keep a entire plant idle for a week while they re-do a logo.
I would think it costs a lot less than a possible lawsuit or losing the Dolby license.
Posted by: gamecox86
quote:
Originally posted by tomr
[B]quote:
I'm sorry but this is pure BS. Not from Robert but from DirecTV. There is No way production would be held up for a Logo. NO WAY. It cost way too much money to hold production and keep a entire plant idle for a week while they re-do a logo. B]
Let's see if there are 500 workers there at maybe $.50 an hour for 8 hours a day for 5 days:
500 *.5 * 8 * 5 = $10,000
Not exactly alot considering what could be lost during legal battles over logos.
Note: All numbers above are notional, but it is easy to see they could be scaled up and still not create a huge sum.
Posted by: Toeside
Darin, You are right. The 5.1 is arbitrary. Sure, Dolby Digital can support 5.1, but doesn't mean it is 5.1.
The 5.1 shouldn't be there. If it is, and I watch something that comes through as 2.0, I'm calling DirecTV for a refund. :p
Craig
Posted by: mchaney
Has anyone thought about the fact that if we all took the amount of time we are spending speculating and posting on this thread alone and just watched whatever HD setup we already have (live), we could probably see all we want to see without ever *needing* to record or time shift anything! :D
The only reason we need HD Tivo is because we are all too busy talking about HD Tivo to watch TV.
Something doesn't add up! The moster is feeding itself! :p
Mike
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by slocko
I think Robert has learned some big lessons here. Next time offer a pre-order and give out as little detail as possible. Offering to ship from Cali just added more work and caused people to switch shipping methods, more faxed paperwork to be received, sorted, computers to be updated, etc.
I think the lesson Robert learned was... don't offer pre-orders! It's not worth the months of insanity, nagging, and whining... and that's just from PJO1966! :D
Posted by: dludwig
quote:
Originally posted by jdk
Has anyone considered that DirecTV just wasn't ready to ship today?
I know that getting a product out the door is a very complex process, with many interdependent or serial processes that must take place. And any hiccup in a single step reverberates down the line, meaning delays.
I know that at my company, when we're up against a hard, artificial deadline, like "The end of Q1", rarely does everything go perfectly to meet that date.
So, I'm willing to give DirecTV and Robert the benefit of a doubt. We'll get our boxes soon and all this will be forgotten in a few weeks. Its going to be a nice weekend, so this is a good excuse to get outdoors and enjoy it!
This is a really good point - their message that the logo and testing were the reasons for the delay doesn't mean that these didn't happen some time ago and really did contribute to the problem (just not at the last minute). Maybe they're only telling us about them now. There could also be some embarrassing reasons they don't want to tell us (like somebody screwed up and forgot to dot their i's and cross their t's). It doesn't speak well for them, but it's hardly the end of the world, either.
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Robert, you might want to review this site:
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ip4r.ch?ip=68.236.168.204
It shows your mail server blacklisted at a couple other places, too.
this site crashed my browser....
Posted by: Paperboy2003
This might have been touched on, and it might not make sense, but some of the big online and b&m guys might have slammed D* because this small(relative) guy in NY was able to line up all these pre orders at a discount and he's gotten the allocation they wish they had. Perhaps some of the big guys slammed them D* and to appease them perhaps D* told them they would get the box before Robert and they would mandate a minimmum price. Just an overactive imagination at work.
Posted by: KCWolfPck
Hmmmm.....it's looking more and more like my Tweeter pre-order will beat out my VE pre-order. No big suprise, and actually....I hope it does.
Posted by: ebonovic
My eyes hurt... Just caught up on nearly 10 pages of posts from last night..
We are all NUTS.... :)
Posted by: tomr
quote:
Originally posted by sonnyducks
I would think it costs a lot less than a possible lawsuit or losing the Dolby license.
Come on you really believe this, They forgot the logo ore somesuch??? If Dolby changed the spec then it is their tough luck and the change can be added latter.
Posted by: tomr
quote:
Originally posted by gamecox86
Let's see if there are 500 workers there at maybe $.50 an hour for 8 hours a day for 5 days:
500 *.5 * 8 * 5 = $10,000
Not exactly alot considering what could be lost during legal battles over logos.
Note: All numbers above are notional, but it is easy to see they could be scaled up and still not create a huge sum.
I wouldn't concentrate on the workers. They are paying alot more for the plant than just the workers. I think the owners might want some money too.
Posted by: compuz1
quote:
Originally posted by tomr
I'm sorry but this is pure BS. Not from Robert but from DirecTV. There is No way production would be held up for a Logo. NO WAY. It cost way too much money to hold production and keep a entire plant idle for a week while they re-do a logo. Stress test??? give me a break, that would have been done months ago. NOT NOW. If the two reasons were really true I guarantee someone would lose their job over this. Once a production plant is ready to roll nothing short of a catastrophic failure would prevent them starting.
There is some other reason production is held up to which I have no idea but I suspect is hardware related. Maybe the plant isn't ready who knows but I would bet the farm it is NOT the reasons stated.
and yes I do own a farm!
I can only imagine Robert is pulling his hair out at this time.
I think ALL of you need to chill out. I, as much as all of you, want my HDTiVo's. I don't even have an HD Receiver right now. It has been stated that Robert has extensive contacts with Hughes and their plant, now referred to as only D*. Also, it has been stated here and on AVS that his contacts have stayed with him through the name/company transition. But the truth is that there is only one person with the knowledge of what is going on here and it is Robert. He had been dealing with D* for a long time. They wouldn't lie to him. Also, it is ENTIRELY possible that production could be held up over a logo issue. If laptops were built that said "GELL" instead of "DELL" Dell would halt the production of the people who they contract with in Asia. No company wants their product mis-represented in any way! D* also wouldn't muck up their relationship with VE because they are a LARGE Internet reseller of D* equipment and service. It would be very bad for D* if they soured a relationship with him over something like this. He isn't a "little" guy when it comes to selling D* over the 'net. So I think we all need to chill out and recognize that IT IS ONLY TV!
Posted by: tomr
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
Hmmmm.....it's looking more and more like my Tweeter pre-order will beat out my VE pre-order. No big suprise, and actually....I hope it does.
If they are holding production it affects EVERYBODY. Evertything gets pushed back.
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
Hmmmm.....it's looking more and more like my Tweeter pre-order will beat out my VE pre-order. No big suprise, and actually....I hope it does.
So is it possible that my Ultimate Electronics order from YESTERDAY will be available before some of these pre-orders?
I don't know, Ultimate Electronics has to receive all their orders in Colorado, then distribute to each store. Perhaps the store I bought from will receive them about the time that early VE pre-orderer's will...then I'll just have to swing by and pick it up.
Posted by: MichaelK
I can add something to the 'stress test' excuse.
I am a consultant and one of my clients happens to make toothpaste. I was up in the plant a few weeks ago and that week they were running a few different products. They grab periodic boxes of the line for Transportation Tests (heat, cold, bouncing, vibrating, etc) and put those in a torture machine to test while the line continues. Well mid way through tuesday the first batch gets done in the test and the open the boxes to check and low and behold for some reason there is all this carboard dust all over the tubes. To a consumer it might look like dirt but since we all knew the boxes where all handled in an FDA clean room, we knew it was just lint from the cardboard. THe other 3-4 lines running had no problems and all the boxes, glue, tubes, etc came from the same vendors. So now they have pallets and pallets of perfectly good tothpaste from a day and a half of manufacturing that is junk becasue some anomoly with the cardboard. They run periodically throughout the week pulling an insert or adding a flap, changine glue temps, etc , etc and they couldnt find the issue all week (was TONS literally TONS of touthpast tied up in these bad packages). I was done with my job and left on friday and they were still trying to figure it out.
I cant speak to the logo, but from that experience I might guess that they did a quicky transportation test (which they didnt bother doing ont he first few hand built beta boxes) and found somthing funky that needs adjustment. I dont think they care about cardboard dust but maybe they found a screw that bounces loose or somethign and they need to restest to figure out what torque to tighten it too.
Posted by: leesweet
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ip4r.ch?ip=68.236.168.204
I'm wondering if something else is up with Robert's mail server.... one of the blacklists listed at dnsstuff (and I use that site every day for checking net problems) is spamcop, and it shows that someone reported spam from them (VE) in the *last* 24 hours. So, it's not from the virus run of several weeks ago. Hm....
Posted by: tomr
quote:
Originally posted by compuz1
I think Also, it has been stated here and on AVS that his contacts have stayed with him through the name/company transition. But the truth is that there is only one person with the knowledge of what is going on here and it is Robert. He had been dealing with D* for a long time. They wouldn't lie to him.
you're kidding right:rolleyes: DirecTV tells a vendor EVERYTHING???? DirecTV wouldn't lie to robert?????? Do you live in Utopia?? Businesses will lie and treat their vendors like crap whenever it suits them. DirecTV is no different. They will conceal any information that may be damaging.
Posted by: TreoFred
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
For what it's worth, I coud not find any Dolby Digital trademark on Dolby's site that uses the "5.1" nomenclature. Everything is just the Dolby Digital trademark, like this:
http://www.dolby.com/graphics/lic/dolby_digital_reg_108x36.gif
This is what appears on the units shown at CES:
http://www.2150.com/files/directv_hd_dvr_dd51_400x400.jpg
That logo is on a little plastic door covering the access card slot.
Personally, I'd accept my HD DVR with the little door removed and they can ship it to me at my expense whenever they're ready. ;)
Doug,
remember that this unit still had the Hughes logo while the one we're getting are now DTV Branded... Who knows what else was changed, including the placement of the Dolby sticker (although I think it's just fine where it is...)
BTW, I've seen many stupid things with those little stickers, from poor overlay job of a new logo that do not even sit straight so as to cover the incorrect one; to a complete recall (yes, I've had a car recalled for safety reasons because... the windshield was missing a sticker saying it was safe to use in Canada :confused: )
Posted by: MichaelK
while we are on the spam blocking topic.
my email from rpbert last night came via a directway server.
and heres what my hosts imail server says about that one:
quote:
X-IMAIL-SPAM-DNSBL: (fiveten,175505648,127.0.0.2)
X-IMAIL-SPAM-VALHELO: (175505648)
aint really got a clue what that means. all i know is it puts those messages in the junk bin and i need to exempt it before it nukes it.
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by TreoFred
Doug,
remember that this unit still had the Hughes logo while the one we're getting are now DTV Branded... Who knows what else was changed, including the placement of the Dolby sticker (although I think it's just fine where it is...)
BTW, I've seen many stupid things with those little stickers, from poor overlay job of a new logo that do not even sit straight so as to cover the incorrect one; to a complete recall (yes, I've had a car recalled for safety reasons because... the windshield was missing a sticker saying it was safe to use in Canada :confused: )
I, for one, hope the case changed to the new style DVR. Some of the newer ones look so much nicer that this old design. Best looking DirecTiVo right now, IMO, is the new(er) Philips.
Posted by: midas
quote:
Originally posted by compuz1
So I think we all need to chill out and recognize that IT IS ONLY TV!
Why do people keep saying this? It's not ONLY TV, it's HDTV :D
Posted by: Shark73
DirecTv The Guide or whatever it is called had a pic of the "DirecTv" branded HD-TiVo in the April issue. I will try to take a digital pic tonight and post it.
Jim
Posted by: borghe
to just cover grounds on the HD Tivo, DirecTV can institute a MAP on the unit... MAPs are instated to prevent the devaluing of a product in a public forum (print ads, internet pages, etc). It is a completely legal contract between the manufacturer/distributor and retailer. However, the manufacturer/distributor in fact cannot enforce the sale of the item at the MAP. That is vertical price fixing and is illegal.
So to be honest, if DirecTV really did penalize anyone for SELLING the HD Tivo for cheaper than $999, they would have the government down on them in a short matter of time.. However, they can enforce retailers to not ADVERTISE below a certain price point, and penalize retailers who do not adhere to that MAP.
Posted by: slocko
is that why best buy says click here for sale price. on a lot of items they can't advertise the price up front. you have to put it in your bin to see the discount. (Robert, hint hint)
Posted by: leesweet
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelK
while we are on the spam blocking topic.
my email from robert last night came via a directway server.
and here's what my hosts imail server says about that one:
....
That 127.0.0.2 is an internal address for your ISP's mailserver's use (127 addresses aren't from the Internet itself) and I'll bet those lines are from when your ISP was 'deciding' to put the email in your junk folder. If that's all that was up here, we could all get it from our own equivalent of the junk folder, but the "ISP blacklists" drop things into a 'blackhole' where things are literally never seen again.
Posted by: ricaltman
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
However, the manufacturer/distributor in fact cannot enforce the sale of the item at the MAP.
A manufacturer has the legal right to enforce an agreement between themselves and the retailer that an item not be sold below a particular price. The agreement is basically that you agree not to sell below a certain price, or you lose your dealership. You have the right not to sign that agreement and they have to right to deny you a dealership. After you have the merchandise, they may not be able to enforce the price of a sale at the moment of the transaction, but if they find out about the sale, they can legally terminate your dealership. These agreements a common and legal, though irritating to a retailer that likes a free marketplace.
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
Hmmmm.....it's looking more and more like my Tweeter pre-order will beat out my VE pre-order. No big suprise, and actually....I hope it does.
Why? I'd rather see Robert (VE - the little guy) beat out the chain stores. He deserves it.
Posted by: herdfan
Do we know for sure if manufacturing has been held up, or just the actual shipping of the units? If it is indeed an issue with the Dolby Logo, they could continue to produce units and replace the doors or cover with a sticker later before being shipped.
Also, there are ways around manufacturers minimum selling prices. For all additional orders, Robert could require a $100 deposit, and offer free overnight shipping (worth $70). If I were to purchase one of these units from Best Buy, I would get a 4% discount since I am a member of their Reward Zone. So basically I would get $40 worth of gift cards a month later.
Tom in Ohio,
You mentioned you ordered from Solid Signal. I did as well. Nothing against Robert, but by the time I found out about the pre-order, he was into May deliveries and SS was mid-April. Since I have sold my old HD receiver, it made a difference. Anyone else order from Solid Signal? I paid 949.99. I wonder if their price will stick. I noticed yesterday that they had raised their price to $999.99. I am going to e-mail them and ask if the price is still the same.
Posted by: horta
any word on the PDF Manual?
Posted by: jeffcarp
quote:
Originally posted by slocko
is that why best buy says click here for sale price. on a lot of items they can't advertise the price up front. you have to put it in your bin to see the discount. (Robert, hint hint)
No, that is typically so competitors can't "crawl" their website and easily extract their prices.
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by horta
any word on the PDF Manual?
I would love to get this before lunch. I need something to read!
Posted by: jeffcarp
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
to just cover grounds on the HD Tivo, DirecTV can institute a MAP on the unit... MAPs are instated to prevent the devaluing of a product in a public forum (print ads, internet pages, etc). It is a completely legal contract between the manufacturer/distributor and retailer. However, the manufacturer/distributor in fact cannot enforce the sale of the item at the MAP. That is vertical price fixing and is illegal.
So to be honest, if DirecTV really did penalize anyone for SELLING the HD Tivo for cheaper than $999, they would have the government down on them in a short matter of time.. However, they can enforce retailers to not ADVERTISE below a certain price point, and penalize retailers who do not adhere to that MAP.
This is exactly what GARMIN company does with their GPS units. These are readily available on the Internet at prices well below the MAP. However, to get that price, you have to contact the dealer, and only then do they give you the selling price.
Posted by: dandrewk
All the "on topic" stuff is getting boring.
Can we PLEASE switch the subject, like maybe to Doug's sex life?
Or how about this: has anyone actually SEEN the new Harmony remote? The only picture of it I have seen is on VE's website. Nothing on the Harmony website.
Those buttons look like the type nomally found on cheaper remotes. Hope this isn't the case.
Posted by: KCWolfPck
quote:
Originally posted by tomr
If they are holding production it affects EVERYBODY. Evertything gets pushed back.
Well, Tweeter was expecting theirs on 4/15. Just because VE is pushed back doesn't mean anyone else is. I just talked to Tweeter and they said that they were aware of the delay in production, but it was not expected to push back their order that was due on 4/15.
Posted by: slocko
i know this is heresy, but is there another thread covering this delay that i can obsess on?
Posted by: KCWolfPck
quote:
Originally posted by KML
Why? I'd rather see Robert (VE - the little guy) beat out the chain stores. He deserves it.
Nothing against VE...all other things being equal, I'd rather have the option of walking a defective unit into a store rather than shipping it.
Posted by: tomr
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
I just talked to Tweeter and they said that they were aware of the delay in production, but it was not expected to push back their order that was due on 4/15.
I guarantee you I know more about the delivery date than some rep at tweeter does and I don't know ANYTHING.
Posted by: borghe
quote:
Originally posted by ricaltman
A manufacturer has the legal right to enforce an agreement between themselves and the retailer that an item not be sold below a particular price. The agreement is basically that you agree not to sell below a certain price, or you lose your dealership. You have the right not to sign that agreement and they have to right to deny you a dealership. After you have the merchandise, they may not be able to enforce the price of a sale at the moment of the transaction, but if they find out about the sale, they can legally terminate your dealership. These agreements a common and legal, though irritating to a retailer that likes a free marketplace.
This is 100% incorrect.. sorry... A manufacturer can in fact NOT enforce what price their product is sold at.. It is completely and totally illegal and is called vertical price fixing and breaks several anti-trust laws. Do a google serach for minimum advertised price MAP and you will hit the FTC's site with that wonderful suit that was won against companies from the RIAA for doing exactly what you are saying. It isn't a case of "the retailer has a right not to sign." It is instead against the law for a manufacturer to even propose a contract such as you are saying. Again see the RIAA suit referenced above.
Edit - I decided to give some of the links to save you some searching effort..
RIAA Case
Description of price fixing in general on the FTC's site
Posted by: Bill Milford
quote:
Originally posted by leesweet
I'm wondering if something else is up with Robert's mail server.... one of the blacklists listed at dnsstuff (and I use that site every day for checking net problems) is spamcop, and it shows that someone reported spam from them (VE) in the *last* 24 hours. So, it's not from the virus run of several weeks ago. Hm....
From the spamcop site (He wasn't listed there last night) this is what the reported spam was:
2004 6:00:00 PM -0600:
Received: from -.-.com ([68.236.168.204])-
by -.-.-.-.net (- SMTP -) with - id -
Tue, - Mar 2004 - - (-)-
Subject: - update from -
From: rz.. at ..s.com
It looks like someone reported his update email as spam and they added him to the list.
Bill
Posted by: KCWolfPck
quote:
Originally posted by tomr
I guarantee you I know more about the delivery date than some rep at tweeter does and I don't know ANYTHING.
So....that could be said for most people on this forum. I never said I talked to a service rep. I called the regional manager. He knew of the delay and knew it didn't affect his allocation.
Don't shoot the messenger....I'm just telling you what I was told.
Perhaps they are going to manufacture more once they get started to make up for lost time....to piss off as little people as possible?? I have no idea? I'm just passing on what I was told.
Posted by: Kamakzie
Isn't this minimum retail price exactly what the Music industry got nailed with recently? In fact I cashed my settlement check a few weeks ago.
Posted by: Bill Milford
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelK
my email from rpbert last night came via a directway server.
All SMTP sessions start with the originating server sending an EHLO or HELO command. This command has a the format EHLO xxxxxxxxx.
The xxxxxxxxx is supposed to be your internet host name.
Robert's server used "EHLO mini.direcway.com"
But the IP was 68.236.16.204. This reverses to dpvc-68-236-168-204.ny325.east.verizon.net.
So it is not actually from direcway.
Bill
Posted by: leesweet
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Milford
From the spamcop site (He wasn't listed there last night) this is what the reported spam was:
....
It looks like someone reported his update email as spam and they added him to the list.
Bill
Yeah, I know, that's what I was talking about. I wonder who on the pre-order list hit 'spam report' button and reported that email to spamcop?! :(
Posted by: borghe
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Isn't this minimum retail price exactly what the Music industry got nailed with recently? In fact I cashed my settlement check a few weeks ago.
Yes.. MAP (minimum advertsised price) is legal, MRP (minimum retail price) is illegal. The problem with the RIAA is that they were working minimum retail price clauses into their MAP contracts.. and yes, the FTC nailed them to the wall which was arguably the start of their current sales/image problems.
If DirecTV is in fact doing this, all they can do is penalize retailers for advertising the unit lower than $999. If they actually tried to penalize the retailer for selling it lower than $999, DirecTV would be hit with the mother of all lawsuits.
Posted by: dr_mal
quote:
Originally posted by leesweet
Yeah, I know, that's what I was talking about. I wonder who on the pre-order list hit 'spam report' button and reported that email to spamcop?! :(
My money's on KC or joegolf :)
Posted by: Bill Milford
quote:
Originally posted by leesweet
Yeah, I know, that's what I was talking about. I wonder who on the pre-order list hit 'spam report' button and reported that email to spamcop?! :(
Someone who should lose there place in line! Just kidding!
Posted by: tomr
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
This is 100% incorrect.. sorry... A manufacturer can in fact NOT enforce what price their product is sold at.. It is completely and totally illegal and is called vertical price fixing and breaks several anti-trust laws. Do a google serach for minimum advertised price MAP and you will hit the FTC's site with that wonderful suit that was won against companies from the RIAA for doing exactly what you are saying. It isn't a case of "the retailer has a right not to sign." It is instead against the law for a manufacturer to even propose a contract such as you are saying. Again see the RIAA suit referenced above.
[/url]
After reading the article ( I got a headache) it seems it is ok IF the retailer accepts co-op money to advertise the product but the RIAA went too far trying to enforce the rules when the retailer paid 100% of the advertising.
"These five companies, which collectively dominate this market, adopted significantly stricter MAP programs between late 1995 and 1996. Under the new MAP provisions, retailers seeking any cooperative advertising funds were required to observe the distributors' minimum advertised prices in all media advertisements, even in advertisements funded solely by the retailers. Retailers seeking any cooperative funds were also required to adhere to the distributors' minimum advertised prices on all in-store signs and displays, regardless of whether the distributor contributed to their cost."
They went to far and got burned.
Posted by: jdk
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Isn't this minimum retail price exactly what the Music industry got nailed with recently? In fact I cashed my settlement check a few weeks ago.
I believe the Music industry was a Horizontal price fixing issue - something that is most definitely illegal.
This is an issue of Veritcal Price Fixing.
From the FTC Website:
http://www.ftc.gov/bc/compguide/illegal.htm
quote:
Resale price maintenance agreements. Vertical price-fixing -- an agreement between a supplier and a dealer that fixes the minimum resale price of a product -- is a clear-cut antitrust violation. It also is illegal for a manufacturer and retailer to agree on a minimum resale price.
The antitrust laws, however, give a manufacturer latitude to adopt a policy regarding a desired level of resale prices and to deal only with retailers who independently decide to follow that policy. A manufacturer also is permitted to stop dealing with a retailer who breaches the manufacturer’s resale price maintenance policy. That is, the manufacturer can adopt the policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.
So Vertical Price Fixing is illegal, but Minimum Resale Price "understandings" are not.
In other words, VE, GG or CC could start selling the HD DirecTivo tomorrow for $500, against DirecTV's wishes to have it sell for no less than $999.
DirecTV can not enforce the selling price of $999 - attempting to do so would be illegal.
However, DirecTV would then decide to no longer do business with that reseller, because that reseller didn't abide by its "wishes" to sell the box for $999. This is completely legal.
Its looks like a thin legal line, but MRP "understandings" are common, and so far legal
Posted by: KCWolfPck
quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
My money's on KC or joegolf :)
Why would you say that? I would have no reason to do that.
Posted by: edrock200
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
Darin, You are right. The 5.1 is arbitrary. Sure, Dolby Digital can support 5.1, but doesn't mean it is 5.1.
The 5.1 shouldn't be there. If it is, and I watch something that comes through as 2.0, I'm calling DirecTV for a refund. :p
Craig
Plus it could go the other way. Some movies are now supporting 6.1 and 7.1 receivers are out. At some point DirecTV may decide to push those down the pipe in which the HD Tivo, or any DirecTV receiver with DD pass through for that matter, should be able to support.
Posted by: grins
Re manual, has anyone gotten a manual from Robert before? I was trying to snoop around on the DirecTV manuals pages, but didn't find much. Does Robert have a manuals page on the VE web site?
Posted by: sotapoppy
quote:
Originally posted by jdk
DirecTV can not enforce the selling price of $999 - attempting to do so would be illegal.
Why would they want to? Seems to me they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I assume they are more concerned with the annuity type income from subscribers. I think any pressure on prices is coming from someone other than D*
Posted by: sotapoppy
Earlier posts have referred to "halting production". Is this a known fact? I thought this was a shipping delay.
Posted by: jdk
quote:
Originally posted by sotapoppy
Why would they want to? Seems to me they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I assume they are more concerned with the annuity type income from subscribers. I think any pressure on prices is coming from someone other than D*
Well, you may be right - BestBuy or Circuit City may be pressuring DirecTV to set the MRP.
But the facts appear to be there is an MRP set by DirecTV. The root cause may be for a variety of reasons, but the MRP is still there at the end of the day.
Posted by: TreoFred
quote:
Originally posted by dandrewk
has anyone actually SEEN the new Harmony remote? The only picture of it I have seen is on VE's website. Nothing on the Harmony website.
Those buttons look like the type nomally found on cheaper remotes. Hope this isn't the case.
If you're looking for the SST-659, there's a good review with plenty of pictures here http://www.remotecentral.com/
Posted by: oosik77
If minimum prices are illegal then the Apple vendors and Xbox vendors to name a few have issues. You can never find those below MRSP except maybe just a few cents.
Posted by: hongcho
Another theory, I guess...
So VE decided not to head out and just wait for their shipment in NY, and send out the orders from there... And he is no longer taking the discount orders...
Regardless of the "logo" issue, I think someone complained pretty hard to DirecTV about the discount and the "special treatment" that VE was getting (e.g., ship directly from the border).
Maybe, the production delay is not a week, but just a day or two, and it will take time for the shipment from Mexico to get to VE (I can't imagine all 200 units going overnight to VE). So, VE has to say sometime next week.
If it is delayed more than a couple of days, it is very likely that VE won't be able to ship until the end of the next week.
Mr. Somewhat-Pessimistic, yet again. :)
Hong.
Posted by: btwyx
quote:
Originally posted by oosik77
If minimum prices are illegal then the Apple vendors and Xbox vendors to name a few have issues. You can never find those below MRSP except maybe just a few cents.
Apple definatly has MAPs, and it does co-op advertising. That may have something to do it. With Apple gear you're more likely to find something extra for no or very little extra cost (like 1¢). I've seen ads for printers and memory bundled with Apple CPUs priced at MSRP.
Posted by: herdfan
quote:
Originally posted by oosik77
If minimum prices are illegal then the Apple vendors and Xbox vendors to name a few have issues. You can never find those below MRSP except maybe just a few cents.
My local Best Buy "got around" some of those issues by bundling (Yes, I know, a term all of us know and love) with the XBox release by selling additional controllers/DVD Remotes/Games all packaged for less than the aggregate price it would cost to buy them all. So effectively the "system" was still sold for $299, but you ended up with like a $100 discount after buying all the other stuff.
Edit: I just got an e-mail from Solid Signal. My $949.99 price will be honored, ship date late April.
Posted by: sotapoppy
quote:
Originally posted by jdk
Well, you may be right - BestBuy or Circuit City may be pressuring DirecTV to set the MRP.
But the facts appear to be there is an MRP set by DirecTV. The root cause may be for a variety of reasons, but the MRP is still there at the end of the day.
OK Now for a dumb question. Since we have locked in at a lower price (assuming a deposit), why do we care? Doesn't this actually say we got a good deal? :)
Posted by: dswallow
Order listing moved, for convenience, to http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...514#post1845514
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
Tom in Ohio,
You mentioned you ordered from Solid Signal. I did as well. Nothing against Robert, but by the time I found out about the pre-order, he was into May deliveries and SS was mid-April. Since I have sold my old HD receiver, it made a difference. Anyone else order from Solid Signal? I paid 949.99. I wonder if their price will stick. I noticed yesterday that they had raised their price to $999.99. I am going to e-mail them and ask if the price is still the same.
I talked to SS the other day and they told me the price was going up to $999.99 on Monday 3/29/04 because Directv was forcing them to do so. I'm still shocked this can be true in our free market, competitive country. I'm just disappointed in the system that works against competition to lower prices.
I suspect it has something to do with how Directv will handle the sale of the HD-Tivo themselves. If I understand it correctly, Directv wouldn't legally be allowed to undercut the price that the retailers are offering. I suspect they will offer the HD-Tivo included with a certain package for the $999.99 price and that's why they don't want others selling it lower. But anyway, that's just a guess.
SS told me to not expect delivery before tax day. I'll be happy if I get it before May.
Posted by: yurkope
I haven't seen an update on the new shipping location. Back when I originally ordered the unit, back in Jan I was told...
DTV TiVo Dealer wrote on Yesterday 09:29 AM:
Yours will ship directly form the Hughes distribution warehouse in Little Rock, AR the day they arrive.
I don't know if this will happen, but I thought I would put it out there.
Posted by: TivoAholic
I think D* wouldnt allow VE to receive the orders over the border.
D* probably said they would ONLY ship to the VE store address.
Therefore this is what the "delay" is! They Told robert to make up the lame excuse of The Logo because if he told us the "truth" he would be cut off from on future dealings with D*.
The receivers are probably being loaded on the tractor trailer right now for delivery to New York. It will take a 4-5 days so We probably will see the
first 200 being shipped by VE on Tuesday of next week.
(I Hope!!) This is mt GUT Feeling....
Hopefully they wont go through New Jersey,
If they do that Soproano Dream might come true :mad: :D
Posted by: Larry Hutchinson
I don't know if they are stress testing the machine, but I do know they are stress testing us!
Posted by: dswallow
Don't forget that DirecTV also controls some payments directly to retailers when receivers are activated.
It is completely legal, for instance, to tier how those payments are made... for example, there could be a level of payment to "price compliant" dealers, and a significantly less level of payment to "price non-compliant" dealers. So DirecTV could make product available to everyone no matter the price they charged, but if they wanted the maximum payments from DirecTV for activations, they have to adhere to the pricing requests.
That doesn't mean that if here and there a unit got sold for less there'd be immediate consequences, but if DirecTV got wind of them being regularly sold for less, they could choose to do something about it.
Robert did offer the discounts with the full knowledge of Hughes and DirecTV, so while that doesn't mean DirecTV couldn't have changed their mind at some point and said, "OK, no more," it certainly could also be pressure from other dealers who didn't like it happening.
Generally, the real reasons for these actions do eventually come out. Once the pre-order craze has passed, I expect we'll start to get the real stories behind these actions. And then we can, perhaps, take some action ourselves should it prove to have some identifiable and targetable source.
Posted by: oosik77
quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
My local Best Buy "got around" some of those issues by bundling (Yes, I know, a term all of us know and love) with the XBox release by selling additional controllers/DVD Remotes/Games all packaged for less than the aggregate price it would cost to buy them all. So effectively the "system" was still sold for $299, but you ended up with like a $100 discount after buying all the other stuff.
Edit: I just got an e-mail from Solid Signal. My $949.99 price will be honored, ship date late April.
No one ever bundles what I want! :D
Posted by: PJO1966
How about bundling the HD Tivo with a 50" panasonic plasma?
Posted by: dswallow
Funny thing is I ordered two 20" LCD's from Dell yesterday. My order confirmation indicated an April 5 ship date. Today I get an email telling me they shipped yesterday, the day I ordered. With luck I'll have them by Friday, so at least I'll have some sort of new toy to play with.
Posted by: borghe
quote:
Originally posted by oosik77
If minimum prices are illegal then the Apple vendors and Xbox vendors to name a few have issues. You can never find those below MRSP except maybe just a few cents.
In the case of the Xbox or other video game hardware, it is simply a fact that the cost of the hardware to the retailer is within dollars of the MSRP. When PS2 came out, a friend at a large retailer (unnamed) showed me that that retailer paid ~$296 for each PS2. This isn't a case of MAP, MRP, or MSRP. This is a case that if the retailer priced it at anything below MSRP, they would likely be taking a loss on each and every unit sold. Hardware generally makes no money for video game resellers.. It is the software, which is why for the past generation hardware bundles have become so popular among retailers (but generally not buyers).. It goes so far that retailers generally have to get assurances from the manufacturer that when a price drop occurs (such as right now with the XBox), that the retailer gets reimbursed for current inventory that was purchased at the higher MSRP (and hence higher wholesale price, usually above current MSRP).
As for the fine line on price fixing and pricing agreements, we will see.. that line in the price fixing document to me sure doesn't read that the manufacturer can set whatever price they want and enforce it through lack of distribution with the retailer.. to me it reads more along the lines that a retailer must maintain a certain level of pricing policy (ie must be sold above wholesale, cannot fall under $xxx for more than one week consecutively, etc), not that they are having minimum pricing fixed.. the first part of that document supercedes the second part and fixing a set minimum price is illegal. enforcing a policy is not, but I highly doubt that the manufacturer is able to set minimum pricing inside that policy, which would be entirely contradictory.
Posted by: TreoFred
quote:
Originally posted by oosik77
No one ever bundles what I want! :D
Ain't that the truth: I'll bundle the one thing you want with those 4 things you couldn't care less about and I can't really seem to sell; I'll charge you less than if you had bought those 5 things but more than for the one thing you really wanted. Do we have a deal ? http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/images/smilies/deal.gif
Actually, during the PS 2, Xbox and Gamecube release, ALL the bundles were pretty much rip off... And it was HARD to pre-order anything without paying for a bundle http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/images/smilies/blueupset.gif
Anyway, back to the HD-Tivo release conspiracy theory http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/images/smilies/lurk.gif
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Funny thing is I ordered two 20" LCD's from Dell yesterday. My order confirmation indicated an April 5 ship date. Today I get an email telling me they shipped yesterday, the day I ordered. With luck I'll have them by Friday, so at least I'll have some sort of new toy to play with.
party at Doug's house on Friday.... (hint: he needs some new DVDs....)
and yes set aside an hour or so for "Joan of Arcadia"
Posted by: herdfan
One other "out" D* may have to be able to force a price is that D* subsidizes the cost of each unit. Although for the life of me, I can't imagine any subsidy on this unit. But by subsidizing part of the cost of units, there may be some leeway that allows them to enforce an MSRP.
Posted by: oosik77
Check out this one I picked up last month... very cool for the office as it supports my PC, Xbox and Cable TV all with the one widescreen HD ready flat panel. (Just ignore the sticker shock.)
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/pro...s=19&l=en&s=dhs
Posted by: bdavidson
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
My HDTV gets delivered tomorrow, so I was looking forward to a Matrix Trilogy event on the new TV...
I guess I'll still buy it. I do hope it is better than Reloaded.
I would pick a different trilogy to break in your HDTV.
Brad
Posted by: rcbray
Believe I read how far down the list Robert had progressed for sending out his forms. However this thread is growing so rapidly, I can't find it again. I didn't order until 4 March. I just removed the Adelphia spam filter from my account because of the issues noted today. Does anyone know if I'm at risk for his e-mail already being filtered, or am I safe because he hasn't progressed that far down his list?
Posted by: Kamakzie
Even I like Joan of Arcadia! She is hot in her own special way! :D
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
party at Doug's house on Friday.... (hint: he needs some new DVDs....)
and yes set aside an hour or so for "Joan of Arcadia"
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by TivoAholic
I think D* wouldnt allow VE to receive the orders over the border.
D* probably said they would ONLY ship to the VE store address.
Therefore this is what the "delay" is! They Told robert to make up the lame excuse of The Logo because if he told us the "truth" he would be cut off from on future dealings with D*.
The receivers are probably being loaded on the tractor trailer right now for delivery to New York. It will take a 4-5 days so We probably will see the
first 200 being shipped by VE on Tuesday of next week.
(I Hope!!) This is mt GUT Feeling....
Hopefully they wont go through New Jersey,
If they do that Soproano Dream might come true :mad: :D
I think this is very likely the case. I can't wait to see if the logo was changed or not.
Should be fun to see what happens with this next week.
Jim
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by TivoAholic
Hopefully they wont go through New Jersey,
... and exactly what do you have against my home state?
Posted by: jagerbuddy
tired of being one of the only ones on the first set without a number next to order. I am confirmed #12
Posted by: Kamakzie
Do we really want our HD TiVo's smelling like a swamp? :D
quote:
Originally posted by PJO1966
... and exactly what do you have against my home state?
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Funny thing is I ordered two 20" LCD's from Dell yesterday. My order confirmation indicated an April 5 ship date. Today I get an email telling me they shipped yesterday, the day I ordered. With luck I'll have them by Friday, so at least I'll have some sort of new toy to play with.
I hope you received the Small Business deal of $749. A co-worker bought one at that price. Unbelievable display.... It's friggen HUGE!
Posted by: Paperboy2003
quote:
Originally posted by jagerbuddy
tired of being one of the only ones on the first set without a number next to order. I am confirmed #12
SHOW OFF
(from a jealous person between 3 and 4 hundred)
Posted by: Paperboy2003
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
I hope you received the Small Business deal of $749. A co-worker bought one at that price. Unbelievable display.... It's friggen HUGE!
Are they widescreen or 4:3.....I'm in the market as well. Capable of HD at that price?
Posted by: jdk
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
...
As for the fine line on price fixing and pricing agreements, we will see.. that line in the price fixing document to me sure doesn't read that the manufacturer can set whatever price they want and enforce it through lack of distribution with the retailer..
There is no enforcement here. It is voluntary.
According to the FTC website, a manufacturer has the right to do business with whateve reseller it feels, and also has the right to stop doing business with any reseller it feels.
And a valid reason for stopping business with a reseller is that the reseller didn't follow its pricing "guidelines".
So, a reseller wishing to keep reselling a product will voluntarily follow the manufacturer's "suggested" MRP, just to keep selling that product.
We can keep arguing over the legality, or individual nuances, but the fact is that it IS happening widely today, and the outcome is the same - everyone sells something for the same price. Try to go shopping for a new high-end appliance locally or online. You'll be amazed that everyone sells it for exactly the same price. The XBox is a good example - try to find one today for less than $149.
Anyway, if you feel this is illegal, feel free to file a complaint with the FTC. I bet they point you to the same web page, saying that as long as it is voluntary, it is completely legal.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Do we really want our HD TiVo's smelling like a swamp? :D
:eek:
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Even I like Joan of Arcadia! She is hot in her own special way! :D
Regardless of her looks, there is finally a decent show on during the family hour that everyone can watch and enjoy. There are very few shows that I watch that I can later talk about with my mom. The list is short, shows that come to mind are the aforementioned Joan..., Ed, and Sports Night. Ah... Sports Night. What a great show!
Posted by: ebonovic
Hey... Someone just posted a picture of the box for HDTivo.
The blurred picture doesn't show any signs of 5.1 next to the dolby digital.
hmmmm
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
I hope you received the Small Business deal of $749. A co-worker bought one at that price. Unbelievable display.... It's friggen HUGE!
$749.25 each, actually. $999 - 25%.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Paperboy2003
Are they widescreen or 4:3.....I'm in the market as well. Capable of HD at that price?
1600x1200. Just 4:3. These are for my computer. ;)
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by Paperboy2003
Are they widescreen or 4:3.....I'm in the market as well. Capable of HD at that price?
They are 4:3, just really big LCDs. If you want a nice widescreen LCD capable of HD, check out the Dell W1700. They use the DCDi Faroudja deinterlacer! I also heard they are the exact same as the $1000 Philips 17" wide LCD. There are even a few on eBay.
Posted by: buzzword
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Isn't this minimum retail price exactly what the Music industry got nailed with recently? In fact I cashed my settlement check a few weeks ago.
Don't believe everything you read, about "price fixing". I work for a major label and was involved in MAP when it happened (I don't recall the timeframe exactly, 10 years?)
What the real story was is that when big appliance chains like Best Buy started selling CD below cost and using them as loss leaders to draw people into the stores (if they were China, this would be called "dumping", to give you another angle on it...)
This was starting to really hurt mom and pop stores (at the time 85% of record sales were thru small stores and 15% thru big chains, *now* it's completely the reverse).
There was no "price fixing" involved, we simply said that we were not going to pay for Co-op advertising for items advertised below cost price. Co-Op advertising is where we share ad costs if our products appear in their ad. This was done at the request of the small retailers who felt we were helping the big chains put them out of business, nothing could have been be further from the truth, as a company you want the widest possible customer base.
That couln't be said now without pissing off the big chains who are now 85% of the business. We settled only because it was cheaper than fighting a protracted legal battle. As is often the case these days, the truth gets buried and only the lawyers benefit <sigh>
I personally found it really disturbing to see it presented as price fixing. What I find even more disturbing is that evey news item I've ever had first hand knowledge of has in every case been reported incorrectly, it's all about spin. Very discouraging, the result being that I only believe 1/2 of what I read.
Posted by: herdfan
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
Ah... Sports Night. What a great show!
Without a doubt probably the best show that ever got canned for no reason. Now Natalie was hot.:D
Posted by: ajlevine
Better late than never:
Time of Order: 3/31/2004 2:02:55 PM
Order Type: Email
Order ID: 14090
Posted by: Combat Medic
quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
Without a doubt probably the best show that ever got canned for no reason. Now Natalie was hot.:D
Greg the Bunny.
Posted by: horta
OK All Well I just got spanked by VE. I sent them the email below.
-----Original Message-----
From: Horta Jerry-EJH030
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:29 PM
To: 'rzohn@valueelectronics.com'
Subject: HR10-250 Pre-Order forms you requested
ValueElectronics Team
I have called twice and spoken to a very nice lady. Twice she has said she would email me the forms you request to complete the order. I have NOT received them yet. I found the forms online and have filled them out and faxed them to you. I have also attached them here as a PDF for you. Please let me know if this is NOT acceptable.
I know you all are busy so sorry to have bothered you.
Have a great day
Jerry Horta
Here is what I got back. I guess I deserve it and I feel bad
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Walsh [mailto:*****@valueelectronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:04 PM
To: Jerry Horta
Subject:
Hi Jerry,
There was absolutely no necessity to send those forms in. We would have contacted you when appropriate and will now do so again. You need not respond to that. (We're running out of ink and paper!)
VE
Posted by: ebonovic
quote:
Originally posted by Combat Medic
Greg the Bunny.
GTB was one of the most creative funny adult humor comedies out there.
You can pick up the VCD on ebay, that contains 2 episodes that where never airred.
I never laughed so hard at a network tv show in my life.
Posted by: Paperboy2003
wow...no posts for a whole 10 minutes....people must be napping....shhhh!
Posted by: madpoet
Natalie from Sports Night was funny when she was on Ed.
Posted by: Bryan Lyle
quote:
Originally posted by ebonovic
Hey... Someone just posted a picture of the box for HDTivo.
The blurred picture doesn't show any signs of 5.1 next to the dolby digital.
hmmmm
Where was this posted? And I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought GTB was great!
Posted by: cgeurin
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
$749.25 each, actually. $999 - 25%.
Since we're always off-topic here anyway, how do I go about getting the "Small Business Deal"???
Thanks!
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by Bryan Lyle
Where was this posted? And I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought GTB was great!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...threadid=168244
Posted by: Bryan Lyle
Ok, so does this debunk the theory that shipping was held up? Or could this just be the box that the unit will be in? :)
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by cgeurin
Since we're always off-topic here anyway, how do I go about getting the "Small Business Deal"???
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mes...keyword1=2001fp
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Bryan Lyle
Ok, so does this debunk the theory that shipping was held up? Or could this just be the box that the unit will be in? :)
It adds the possiblity that DirecTV executives said "Oh sh**, we forgot to reserve our place in line for these things! Hey, let's delay them all and we can 'stress test' the units ourselves. Yeah, that'll work!"
Posted by: k2ue
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
It adds the possiblity that DirecTV executives said "Oh sh**, we forgot to reserve our place in line for these things! Hey, let's delay them all and we can 'stress test' the units ourselves. Yeah, that'll work!"
Joe Isuzu's voice:
"Yeah, dat's da ticket -- 'Stress testing' -- yeah"
Posted by: GreyGhost00
The encouraging thing is that they're really being built and put into boxes for shipping. It's real folks ... I'll bet they really do ship next week.
That being said, it kind of shoots a hole in the whole "logo problem/stress test" excuse.
Shipping of Robert's units has been delayed ... but it doesn't appear there's a delay in production. Two different things.
Posted by: KCWolfPck
quote:
Originally posted by GreyGhost00
Shipping of Robert's units has been delayed ... but it doesn't appear there's a delay in production. Two different things.
Which further substantiates my earlier post regarding Tweeter's allotment not being delayed.
Posted by: PJO1966
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mes...keyword1=2001fp
oooh... another "deal" website. I just got my digital camera through dealnews.com
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by madpoet
Natalie from Sports Night was funny when she was on Ed.
Yeah. I didn't like her as much as her character on Sports Night, though.
Maybe I need the Sports Night Complete Series DVD. :)
Posted by: TreoFred
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
They are 4:3, just really big LCDs. If you want a nice widescreen LCD capable of HD, check out the Dell W1700. They use the DCDi Faroudja deinterlacer! I also heard they are the exact same as the $1000 Philips 17" wide LCD. There are even a few on eBay.
Or if you want to drool you can always try this http://www.apple.com/displays/acd23/
:D
Sony has a knock off PC equivalent that I kind of like. Couple with my Lattitude D800 (also 1920x1200), that gives me a virtual desktop of 3840x1200 :up:
Posted by: madpoet
Do they actually have that?
I really dug Sports Night, but the whole Natalie/what's his name romance thing was grating on me. Of course he's now a semi-weasel bad guy on the West Wing.
Posted by: KCWolfPck
I bet Robert is reading this now and thinking to himself..."Damn, these guys are catching on much quicker than I expected".
LOL
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by madpoet
Do they actually have that?
I really dug Sports Night, but the whole Natalie/what's his name romance thing was grating on me. Of course he's now a semi-weasel bad guy on the West Wing.
I've owned it for a while now. It's great to go back and watch the old episodes.
Posted by: JEbbesen
I love you guys and your expensive toys - every time the wife gets on my expenditures I tell her it could be worse and then I show her threads like this to give her some perspective.
Keep up the good work :up:
Posted by: StephenT
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
I bet Robert is reading this now and thinking to himself..."Damn, these guys are catching on much quicker than I expected".
LOL
Catching on to what exactly?
Posted by: Paperboy2003
If you think about it, Robert had said he would refund only if you were able to get the unit elsewhere before he was able to ship. That was also the reason why he was willing to fly to California to expedite shipment. Robert might not want to lose the orders he has in his system; hence the delay story. I for one have my order in and have been helped by Robert so I wouldn't cancel (although being around #375 probably puts me into May...ouch).
Pure hypothetical musings, but what else do we have to do.
QUICK...someone call Oliver Stone, I'm sure a professional conspiracy theorist could cook up an even better story!
Posted by: Toeside
quote:
Originally posted by Shark73
I've owned it for a while now. It's great to go back and watch the old episodes.
The only problem I have with watching Sports Night now is that season finale was written as a season finale, not series finale. I want to know more!
Posted by: Toeside
I think my only concern, now, on the ship date is will I get mine in time for Season Finales... Friends, Frasier, ER, etc.
Finales are in May, right?
Posted by: Mr Pieces
Ahhhh.... Fatwallet.com the site that empties my wallet faster than the wife! It was my most watched web site (Hot Deals Forum) before this monster thread got going. If you aren't familiar with Fatwallet.com check it out. Best place to find deals on EVRYTHING.
Posted by: cgeurin
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mes...keyword1=2001fp
Thanks!
Posted by: herdfan
quote:
Originally posted by madpoet
I really dug Sports Night, but the whole Natalie/what's his name romance thing was grating on me. Of course he's now a semi-weasel bad guy on the West Wing.
Jeremy!
Posted by: slocko
madpoet how is that install coming along? i think you said today was the day?
Posted by: Stuigi
sum of a beach
Posted by: madpoet
Postponed due to rain until tomorrow :)
So I still have hope! Honestly, I think while I will get a signal now, I worry about once the trees have leaves on them. I talked with the installer for a bit on the phone and he seemed like a pretty knowledgeable guy (Mike) so hopefully he can apprise me of my options.
-MP
Posted by: Shark73
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
The only problem I have with watching Sports Night now is that season finale was written as a season finale, not series finale. I want to know more!
Totally agree with you on that one.
Posted by: Paperboy2003
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Pieces
Ahhhh.... Fatwallet.com the site that empties my wallet faster than the wife! It was my most watched web site (Hot Deals Forum) before this monster thread got going. If you aren't familiar with Fatwallet.com check it out. Best place to find deals on EVRYTHING.
2 others to look at before buying are :
www.naughtycodes.com
www.gotapex.com/deals.php
Happy Buying!
Posted by: oosik77
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
The only problem I have with watching Sports Night now is that season finale was written as a season finale, not series finale. I want to know more!
They knew that they might not get renewed though. ABC so dropped the ball with that one. I love the line "Anyone who can't make money with Sports Night shouldn't be in the money making business." From that very last episode. How fitting....
Posted by: ebonovic
quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
I think my only concern, now, on the ship date is will I get mine in time for Season Finales... Friends, Frasier, ER, etc.
Finales are in May, right?
Out of your list there... ER is the only one in HD, and it is not even that impressive in HD.
Friends and Frasier where filmed in SD resolutions...
Now... Season Finales for most of the hour long shows:
CSI, CSI:Miami, LO, LO:CI, LO:SVU now that would be sweet.
And actually CBS's Two and Half Men sitcom, looks very good in HD.
Especially when you have Terri Hatcher in a short red mini-dress..
Two bad, will most likely miss the Final Four, and it's a long shot for the Finals...
Maybe for the Masters...
Posted by: mercurial
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mes...keyword1=2001fp
Curse you Doug! Curse you! Now I just went and got a set of refurbed speakers from eCost for $49.95 for setting up my "secondary" home theater/game room in the basement... :eek:
Posted by: horta
Hey I emailed VE back and said sorry to have bothered them. This is what I got. These poor people must be going nuts over there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Walsh [mailto:*****@valueelectronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:09 PM
To: Horta Jerry-EJH030
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE:
No, no ... no prob at all! Just makes it harder for us to process three different versions of the same damn stuff and field an extra thousand phone calls from panicked people who think if they don't respond, and confirm, and re-confirm and resend, and then call to see we've gotten it all, we're gonna drop them down a hole forever. Ugh. I need a vacation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Horta Jerry-EJH030
To: 'Graham Walsh'
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: [SPAM] RE:
Sorry I had no I'll intentions. I will sit back quietly and be patient.
Jerry Horta
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
Nothing against VE...all other things being equal, I'd rather have the option of walking a defective unit into a store rather than shipping it.
That makes sense.
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
This is 100% incorrect.. sorry... A manufacturer can in fact NOT enforce what price their product is sold at.. It is completely and totally illegal and is called vertical price fixing and breaks several anti-trust laws. Do a google serach for minimum advertised price MAP and you will hit the FTC's site with that wonderful suit that was won against companies from the RIAA for doing exactly what you are saying. It isn't a case of "the retailer has a right not to sign." It is instead against the law for a manufacturer to even propose a contract such as you are saying. Again see the RIAA suit referenced above.
Edit - I decided to give some of the links to save you some searching effort..
RIAA Case
Description of price fixing in general on the FTC's site
What about Saturn automobiles. Their whole pitch is fixed pricing that can't be bargained. The car goes for the sticker price and that's it.
Posted by: paulj
The following is my speculation on the additional stress testing.
The last time I was at the Solectron in Guadalajara there was no prototype line. While it's been a while since I've been there this is very typical for high volume contract manufacturers. High volume manufacturing and low volume prototype runs are very different critters, basically different businesses. And you really don't want a bunch of lines sitting around at various plants waiting for the occasional prototype run. I'm guessing that all of the builds for the TiVo have been at Solectron's Milpitas plant so far. Solectron makes lots of promises about how straight forward it is to transfer the knowledge (and in a few cases the machinery) from one plant to another, but in reality there's always room for problems. I'm guessing that setting the line up in Guadalajara did not go as smoothly as they hoped and now they want an unplanned run for another stress test so they can test their line. Having spent some time in this type of business I think this happens more often than not. One difference here is that we've got a pretty hot spotlight on the timing of the first production run, normally people would never know.
One thing to think about, once stress tested these units can't be sold and may end up in the hands of "friendlies" for free.
paul
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Isn't this minimum retail price exactly what the Music industry got nailed with recently? In fact I cashed my settlement check a few weeks ago.
Yes, but IIRC, that was illegal because the price fixing was the same with more than one music company. That's the part's that illegal.
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by leesweet
Yeah, I know, that's what I was talking about. I wonder who on the pre-order list hit 'spam report' button and reported that email to spamcop?! :(
Wow, I thought it took more than one report to add an address to the blacklist. That sucks if it can be done that easily.
Posted by: Darin
I feel for VE, I really do... a relatively small company trying to deal with all these crazed fanatics. But they really have to expect this... for what ever reason, they've chosen to do these forms on a one by one email basis, instead of just making them available to all & asking for them to be sent in. With the email problems they've been having, you have to expect people to be worried when they don't get anything.
Posted by: Todd
quote:
Originally posted by ebonovic
Out of your list there... ER is the only one in HD, and it is not even that impressive in HD.
Actually Fraiser is also in full HD this year.
Friends is filmed, which is much higher res than HD, but for some unkown reason, NBC decided never to show them in HD. :rolleyes:
Posted by: dswallow
Order listing moved, for convenience, to http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...691#post1847691
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by KML
Wow, I thought it took more than one report to add an address to the blacklist. That sucks if it can be done that easily.
It only took one report in the McCarthy era, why shouldn't it only take one report now? ;)
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by buzzword
Don't believe everything you read, about "price fixing". I work for a major label and was involved in MAP when it happened (I don't recall the timeframe exactly, 10 years?)
What the real story was is that when big appliance chains like Best Buy started selling CD below cost and using them as loss leaders to draw people into the stores (if they were China, this would be called "dumping", to give you another angle on it...)
This was starting to really hurt mom and pop stores (at the time 85% of record sales were thru small stores and 15% thru big chains, *now* it's completely the reverse).
There was no "price fixing" involved, we simply said that we were not going to pay for Co-op advertising for items advertised below cost price. Co-Op advertising is where we share ad costs if our products appear in their ad. This was done at the request of the small retailers who felt we were helping the big chains put them out of business, nothing could have been be further from the truth, as a company you want the widest possible customer base.
That couln't be said now without pissing off the big chains who are now 85% of the business. We settled only because it was cheaper than fighting a protracted legal battle. As is often the case these days, the truth gets buried and only the lawyers benefit <sigh>
I personally found it really disturbing to see it presented as price fixing. What I find even more disturbing is that evey news item I've ever had first hand knowledge of has in every case been reported incorrectly, it's all about spin. Very discouraging, the result being that I only believe 1/2 of what I read.
If there wasn't any issue of price collusion, then why did every major label sell the CD version for a lot higher than cassettes, even though the product cost was almost the same?
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by KML
If there wasn't any issue of price collusion, then why did every major label sell the CD version for a lot higher than cassettes, even though the product cost was almost the same?
If you think you can get $50 for something, exactly why would you offer it for $40 when you're in business to make money?
Posted by: ebonovic
quote:
Originally posted by Todd
Actually Fraiser is also in full HD this year.
Friends is filmed, which is much higher res than HD, but for some unkown reason, NBC decided never to show them in HD. :rolleyes:
HMMM didn't know that about Fraiser, but then again I haven't watched the last two seasons.
I hope the decided to show Friends in full HD for the finally, but... probably not.
Posted by: JEbbesen
quote:
Originally posted by KML
If there wasn't any issue of price collusion, then why did every major label sell the CD version for a lot higher than cassettes, even though the product cost was almost the same?
It's called value pricing - you charge for the perceived value not based on cost to produce. I would bet the cassette version was actually more expensive to produce.
Posted by: jakeyd
One more for the list
Time of Order: 3/12/2004 5:18:19 PM
Order Type: Email
Order ID: 13835
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
It only took one report in the McCarthy era, why shouldn't it only take one report now? ;)
You're too young to remember the McCarthy era. You must have paid attention in American History class. :)
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
If you think you can get $50 for something, exactly why would you offer it for $40 when you're in business to make money?
I understand that concept. The problem I saw was that all the labels did the same thing and charged essentially the same price. At least that practice didn't carry over to DVDs.
Posted by: jarredduq
quote:
Originally posted by ebockelman
I had the same results. If you look at Dolby's Trademarks page they show all of their logos, and they have no specific one for DD5.1.
On page 4 of this PDF they show the Dolby Digital logo with the 5.1 numbers beside it - just like the plastic door on your picture. (Although, this document was meant to show how to display in broadcasts, not on hardware.)
The Hughes HTL-HD receiver I used to have had the 5.1 next to the Dolby logo.
So I guess they will have to recall those receivers to fix the problem.
Posted by: Kamakzie
Is that where he was labeling most of Hollywood as Commie's?
quote:
Originally posted by KML
You're too young to remember the McCarthy era. You must have paid attention in American History class. :)
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by ebonovic
Out of your list there... ER is the only one in HD, and it is not even that impressive in HD.
Maybe for the Masters...
don't forget "Crossing Jordan" on NBC.
mix of Quincy and X-files.
Posted by: dandrewk
quote:
Originally posted by Todd
Actually Fraiser is also in full HD this year.
Friends is filmed, which is much higher res than HD, but for some unkown reason, NBC decided never to show them in HD. :rolleyes:
Film has the potential for higher resolution, but in all usages it is actually much lower. It loses a lot of resolution when being scanned, which is why a show shot in HD (such as Leno) will be much sharper than one that is filmed/scanned (such as West Wing).
Same goes for watching a movie in HDTV vs seeing it in the theater. A good HD monitor will beat even the best film projection system.
Posted by: dandrewk
I wonder how the winning bidders on the ebay auction are feeling. I would be real P0'd at the seller, even though the delay isn't his fault.
And I assume Robert's new policy of nobody selling their places isn't being applied retroactively.
Posted by: leesweet
quote:
Originally posted by KML
You're too young to remember the McCarthy era. You must have paid attention in American History class. :)
Well, in *any* event :) spamcop doesn't put you on the list for one report... it has a convoluted formula (see here for the folks that really care, and even I, who do this for a living said 'forget it' after the second paragraph... http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/297.html )
Posted by: slocko
i thought film was the highest resolution and it was the source.
from film you master the vhs copy, the dvd copy, and in the future the hd-dvd copy.
no?
Posted by: Kevin L
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Is that where he was labeling most of Hollywood as Commie's?
Basically.
Posted by: Kevin L
That's what I thought. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by leesweet
Well, in *any* event :) spamcop doesn't put you on the list for one report... it has a convoluted formula (see here for the folks that really care, and even I, who do this for a living said 'forget it' after the second paragraph... http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/297.html )
Posted by: JEbbesen
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
Is that where he was labeling most of Hollywood as Commie's?
And rightfully so in many cases although I don't see what that has to do with anything - those were different times.
Posted by: hongcho
Ah... At this rate, we will hit 6000 in no time. :)
Hong.
Posted by: Todd
quote:
Originally posted by dandrewk
Film has the potential for higher resolution, but in all usages it is actually much lower. It loses a lot of resolution when being scanned, which is why a show shot in HD (such as Leno) will be much sharper than one that is filmed/scanned (such as West Wing).
Same goes for watching a movie in HDTV vs seeing it in the theater. A good HD monitor will beat even the best film projection system.
I'll agree that stuff recorded with an HD camera generally looks better than an HD transfer from film. I wonder when they'll start switching from film to HD to record sitcoms and other TV shows? I did see a story the other day on how Scrubs is filmed and edited and I think they said it's still filmed, but they actually transfer to SD video and do all of the editing on consumer-grade Apple video editing software. Pretty cool...
Posted by: madpoet
Even Reagan was a commie :)
Posted by: RxMan
I called VE with a question about one of the two 'required' forms. I had the forms emailed to me from someone here on this forum.
They told me me 'we don't need either form, our fax machine is going to blow up'. I asked if he was joking. He said NO, we do NOT need either form.
Posted by: hongcho
> 'we don't need either form, our fax machine is going to blow up'
They did say they are running out of ink and papers. :p
Hong.
Posted by: jbradway
Yahoo.... I'm not last anymore.
Posted by: Kamakzie
I don't know I am just going with the flow, someone mentioned McCarthy.
quote:
Originally posted by JEbbesen
And rightfully so in many cases although I don't see what that has to do with anything - those were different times.
Posted by: leesweet
Um, MacArthur, perhaps? :)
Posted by: Kamakzie
Oh crap. I got them confused! :D
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by RxMan
I called VE with a question about one of the two 'required' forms. I had the forms emailed to me from someone here on this forum.
They told me me 'we don't need either form, our fax machine is going to blow up'. I asked if he was joking. He said NO, we do NOT need either form.
It's sorta funny everytime someone posts those forms about 70 people download them.
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
I don't know I am just going with the flow, someone mentioned McCarthy.
did someone mention Paul Mccartney??
Posted by: Tom in OH
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
It's sorta funny everytime someone posts those forms about 70 people download them.
not funny to VE when they receive them... ^_^
I wonder if they regret even offering preorders....
Posted by: Marco
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
I don't know I am just going with the flow, someone mentioned McCarthy. I believe he also wanted to use nukes during the Korean war and eventually either Truman or Eisenhower relieved him of his duties.
That was General Douglas MacArthur. He was overall commander during the Korean War, and was relieved by President Truman for insubordination.
Senator Joseph McCarthy (R-Wis.) imagined Communists everywhere, and got a big part of the country to believe him, until he went too far and went after the Army.
Posted by: scottrob
OK while you are waiting for your HD-Tivo, your assignment is to look up Senator Joseph McCarthy and General Douglas McArthur and learn which one was which. :rolleyes:
Posted by: scottrob
Gosh, you gotta type fast around here. :)
Posted by: Kamakzie
By the way this thread has just passed the total posts for the Directv combo Series II Release Watch pre-order thread!
Posted by: Kamakzie
I think Robert has stated that he isn't going to do one again on this grand of scale. Can't say I blame him.
quote:
Originally posted by Tom in OH
not funny to VE when they receive them... ^_^
I wonder if they regret even offering preorders....
Posted by: JEbbesen
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
I think Robert has stated that he isn't going to do one again on this grand of scale. Can't say I blame him.
Right, like when you're hungover and you say you'll never drink again. When the dust settles, and he adds up the cash he makes, he'll forget all of the bad things that he went through and be looking for the next deal to do.
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
I think Robert has stated that he isn't going to do one again on this grand of scale. Can't say I blame him.
It's important to remember when this started he had no clue it would become this grand a scale. He thought he could sell about 300 of them. ;)
Posted by: slocko
I'm sure Robert rather have these types of problems, instead of wondering how he is going to drum up orders for his business :)
Posted by: leesweet
Okay, here's something interesting to chew on about the 'delay'. One thread at AVS speculates that the Dolby logo in question isn't the external graphic on the front panel but some electronic logo. This is my first TiVo (my bad). Is there an electronic Dolby logo?!
I can see a better case for that really needing to be fixed if it is indeed incorrect!
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