TiVo Community Forums Archives - First announcement of a CableCARD DVR I've seen (Motorola HDT500R)

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First announcement of a CableCARD DVR I've seen (Motorola HDT500R)
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Posted by: dt_dc

Link: http://www.motorola.com/mot/doc/0/983_MotDoc.pdf

Details are sketchy, but in a nutshell, looks like:
Motorola HDT500R
ATSC (HD OTA)
QAM with CableCARD support (HD Cable)
DVR (160GB drive)
Expected Availability: late Q3, 2004

As always ... product not actually out yet ... just a press release and CES demo (although I don't think I heard anything from CES so maybe there wasn't even a demo) ... few details available ... etc.

And yes, I wish Tivo would offer a similar product ...

Posted by: pkscout

I hope you can upgrade or add a drive. 160gb drive is only around 20 hours of HD content (1/3 less than the HD TiVo is suppose to have).

On second thought, I hope you *can't* add a drive. Then when TiVo gets a partner for a CableLabs box they'll be able to provide something with more space. :D

Posted by: TiVo Fool

quote:
And yes, I wish TiVo would offer a similar product ...

TiVo needs to get off the dime and deliver a product like this. It seems like it's natural evolution for the stand alone platform.

Posted by: mtchamp

There is very good reason to expect Humax of Korea to make the CableLabs STB's with TiVo. They are the newest TiVo Licensee and will be the first to make standalone TiVo's since Philips and Sony quit. They will also make TiVo DVR/DVD recorders. I see no reason why the largest STB supplier in Europe and 3rd largest STB supplier on the planet would be entering the US market unless it also wanted to build to the US CableLabs standard as it already manufactures STB's to many different worldwide standards already. It's just a matter of a few months before we get an announcement from Humax Have a good look around their main website with new UK and USA sites. They might even build a UK standalone TiVo or even a TiVo STB to work with B Sky B. This company deserves watching for innovative new TiVo products.

Posted by: jsmeeker

Cool..

If TiVo won't deliver an SA HD DVR, I'll have to get someone elses..Maybe this will be it.

Posted by: cwoody222

Is this part really true?

..."consumers will be able to connect the HDT300 to any cable service provider in the US starting on 1 July 2004..."

Will all cable providers REALLY confirm to the new standards on Day One? Will they be fined if they don't?

Posted by: dt_dc

quote:
Originally posted by cwoody222
Will all cable providers REALLY confirm to the new standards on Day One? Will they be fined if they don't?

looking into crystal ball ... gazing into the future ... hard to do, but my take is ...

Yes, most digital cable plants are going to be up and ready July 1. Ths is especially true of the major MSOs that signed the agreement in the first place back in December 2002. There may be a few small providers that won't make it, and of course there may be some issues in certain locations even for the major MSOs (for example, a plant that's in the middle of their digital upgrade might not quite get everything in place). And of course, this only applies to digital plants ... analog only plants are exempt.

But for the most part, yes, everything will be in place July 1. No, the FCC won't hand out fines (at least not to start with). They'll listen patiently and hand out extensions as needed for a while. Eventually, they may start having to make some threats (again, especially to the smaller MSOs).

But the major MSOs will be happy to prove how they are helping the digital transition ... how any delays are the fault of others (broadcasters and equipment makers) ... and point out that the FCC should listen to them when it comes to issues like multicast must-carry, two-way plug and play devices, and other pertinent issues.

The cable industry is well prepared for this. The specs were done long ago. The upgrades were ready to roll as soon as the FCC rubber stamped everything (late 2003). This isn't a digital upgrade that requires laying new cable. These are software/hardware upgrades at the head end. As with any upgrade, yes it's work, and I don't want to trivialize the effort ... but most MSOs have already started the process.

How many CableCARD sets were introduced at CES? I lost count. CE companies would not be showing this much support unless they were fairly sure of implementation.

A couple articles on the upgrade you may find interesting:
http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0104/01b.htm
http://www.wirelessweek.com/article...type=stockwatch

Favorite quote:

quote:
Nor have S-A or Motorola seen a big rush for the certified CableCARDs based on their conditional access systems. “We built more than have been ordered–let’s put it that way,” Van Orden (SciAtl) says.

Oh, and yes, there will be 1.0 type bugs ... inaccurate PSIP info ... Firewire problems ... and all kinds of other fun issues.

Posted by: Dajad

Excellent articles dt_dc ... good post too.

...Dale

Posted by: samo

quote:
Jensen expects each CableCARD will cost Buckeye between $30 and $90, though pricing will be "time- and volume-dependent." Subscribers will be charged a small installation fee and monthly lease fee, as they would for a set-top converter.

quote:
A basic subscriber who only wants local broadcast channels in HDTV could probably lease a CableCARD for around $5 per month.

OK Dale. I'm confused now. I remember that you posted some quote from FCC rule about CablCards being free of monthly charges. So are cable companies allowed to charge or as you stated "By law the cableco's MUST provide the access card FREE of charge!"

Posted by: dt_dc

I thought I saw 'at no additional' cost attached to one of the FCC orders too ... but haven't been able to find the reference. I did find the following from Cox:

quote:
How much does a CableCARDtm device cost?
Consumers will be able to lease the cards directly from Cox for a low monthly fee.

And the part that makes me laugh:

quote:
How is the CableCARDtm device installed?
A Cox field technician must install the CableCARDtm device.

Posted by: pkscout

What I'm trying to figure out is why the cable companies have to provide Firewire *and* DVI (what one the vendors called "the Powell package" - very funny) when D* doesn't have to do that. the new D* HDTiVo has HDMI but no firewire. Note that I don't know what I'd do with the firewire port (unless I can get the Firewire A/V stuff running on my Mac), but if the cable operators have to have one, why not the satellite providers?

edit to fix formatting.

Posted by: Dajad

quote:
Originally posted by samo
OK Dale. I'm confused now. I remember that you posted some quote from FCC rule about CablCards being free of monthly charges. So are cable companies allowed to charge or as you stated "By law the cableco's MUST provide the access card FREE of charge!"

Samo, you are right, these articles are written to imply that cableco's will/can charge for the card. I'm not sure if the articles are inaccurate or inartfully written. For instance when they mention charges for the card, I suspect what they are really saying is there is a charge for the underlying cable service that the card allows the user to access. So, for a first tier service that normally costs $9.99, when the article says the Cablecard is $9.99 I think they are talking about the underlying cable service that the card unlocks and not the card itself.

But, I'm not certain of that now and do look forward to clarification. One thing is certain ... that after Jan 1, 2005 cableco's will no longer be able to purchase integrated set-tops, which means any set-tops they purchase and deliver to customers will need to use the POD/cablecard system. They cannot differentiate between the price they charge for their POD/cablecard system from what they charge for competitive systems. Will that entail a charge for the cablecard. I'm no longer certain based on this article.

Everything I had read prior to these articles was that MSOs cannot charge extra for the cablecard. I'll be very disappointed if that is not the case.

We'll see.

And dt_dc, what you pointed out was the other thing that struck me ... what the hell do we need a truck roll/technician call, and attendant expense, to insert what amounts to a PCMCIA card. This again gives me pause as to the accuracy of the whole article. There are no truck roll's required to install smart-cards into current sattellite receivers ... You turn off the receiver, push it in, turn the receiver back on ... how hard is that!!!!!

...Dale

Posted by: samo

quote:
what the hell do we need a truck roll/technician call, and attendant expense, to insert what amounts to a PCMCIA card.

We don't, but cable companies do. Easy extra profit. They can easily justify it. Since CableCards are expensive they want to make sure that customer doesn't blow it up with defective equipment or something like it. There also could be legit reasons. Maybe some kind of the authorization code needs to be entered into your cable box/TV or card needs to be programmed with SA programmer. If there are charges for card rental, it is possible that card is not portable and can not be moved from one box/TV to another (similar to satellite boxes) and some kind of serial number from your device needs to be programmed to the card. But most likely just a profit generating requirement to offset initial cost of the card. In any event, I can see people not getting cable company box if they have "digital cable ready" TV or DVDR, but PVR like TiVo would be a hard sell if it will be viewed as cable box with HD that requires service charge and upfront cost. I think if TiVo develops OpenLabs box it needs to be some kind of combo with DVD recorder and be called something like "cable ready DVDR with TiVo basic".

Posted by: dt_dc

quote:
Originally posted by pkscout
What I'm trying to figure out is why the cable companies have to provide Firewire *and* DVI (what one the vendors called "the Powell package" - very funny) when D* doesn't have to do that. If the cable operators have to have one, why not the satellite providers?

The plug and play rules are based on an agreement between the cable MSOs and the electronics manufacturers. I believe the electronics companies forced the Firewire requirement in. If they are going to build stand-alone DVRs, DVD burners, etc ... Firewire is the way to do it. Untill the two-way agreement comes in to play, there is still going to be certain content (PPV, VOD, etc.) that is only going to be available on a box from the cable company. Firewire gives the electronics manufacturers a path to still offer a stand-alone DVR (no built in tuner) that can still be used for all content from a cable box via Firewire.

Since the agreement was between manufacturers and cable companies ... they couldn't reasonably force the Firewire requirement on satellite companies too. They did get the prohibition on selective output controls to apply to all MSOs. However, that's a reasonable requirement that the FCC was probably happy to put in place and felt they had appropriate legal grounds ... the satellite companies still complained about it though.