TiVo Community Forums Archives

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

Install Question
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: jrock

If I get an HD DirecTiVo I don't know how I will be able to install it. Now I have two DirecTiVo's and four standard receivers in the house so the 4 x 8 multi switch is completely used. I called DirecTV and asked if they would install it when I get it they said yes but I would need another dish. I thought there was an easier way to do it like getting a 16 way switch or putting two 4x8's together. The rep said if that was the case I would have to pay the installer for that equipment. I just got DirecTV in October and I have a new oval triple lnb dish already so it should be be able to do HDTV. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? I also want to get an OTA antenna for this and need an installer for that but don't know where to find one.

-Joe

Posted by: DavidAsher

I'm a long time lurker, and I think I understand what I need, but I thought I make sure.

I have an oval LNB, which as I understand it has a 4x4 multiswitch in it. I have 2 DirecTiVos hooked to all 4 outputs of the multiswitch.

Now, since the HDTiVo doesn't have SD outputs @ the same time as HD output I'm going to need to ADD it to my system instead of outplacing an existing TiVo -- so I need two more Sat wires from the dish.

My question is: can I add a 4x8 multiswitch inside the house to get my extra outputs? (my guess is yes) Does it need to be a special multiswitch in some way? Powered? (my guess is yes) Cascadable? (my guess is no)

Thanks for any help...

David.

Posted by: llogan

quote:
Originally posted by jrock
... the 4 x 8 multi switch is completely used. I called DirecTV and asked if they would install it when I get it they said yes but I would need another dish. I thought there was an easier way to do it like getting a 16 way switch or putting two 4x8's together. The rep said if that was the case I would have to pay the installer for that equipment. I just got DirecTV in October and I have a new oval triple lnb dish already so it should be be able to do HDTV. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? I also want to get an OTA antenna for this and need an installer for that but don't know where to find one.

-Joe

1) You don't need another dish, and if you order the HD promo $399 from DirecTV, they will include a multiswitch as part of the installation if you need it (it includes HD receiver, oval dish that you don't need I realize, and installation...they had to use 3 multiswitches at my house and I didn't pay anything extra. Of course it took them 3 days to get it right (which meant I was out of work for three days waiting around for them). You will receive a new oval triple LNB dish as part of the package, when the installer shows up he'll be happy your dish is already installed, just let him know he needs to aim it for the 110 and 119 satellites.
2) You can use a cascadeable multiswitch with your existing one. Effectively the new multiswitch's inputs would be fed from four of your current multiswitch's outputs, which would give you a total of 12 feeds OR
you can use 4 high frequency (up to 2150mhz) splitters and take each feed from your dish and split each feed to the same input on each multiswitch. This is VERY important as you MUST maintain the correct polarity on each feed. 1st feed into splitter should go to both the Sat A 13V feed on both multiswitches. 2nd feed into a splitter should go to both of the Sat A 18V feeds on both multiswitches and so on.
3) As for identifying an installer, it would help to know what city, state, zip code you're in...

Posted by: llogan

quote:
Originally posted by DavidAsher

My question is: can I add a 4x8 multiswitch inside the house to get my extra outputs? (my guess is yes) Does it need to be a special multiswitch in some way? Powered? (my guess is yes) Cascadable? (my guess is no)

David.

You want to run all four runs from your dish to the 4x8 multiswitch

The multiswitch needs to be powered and yes, cascadeable, since it's going through an integrated multiswitch on the dish. DirecTV installers typically use the Zinwell 4x8s to the best of my knowledge.

The issue as I see it is optimally locating your 4x8 multiswitch so that you'll be able to conveniently connect to the four runs going to your Tivos as well as wire the runs needed for your HD tivo.

Posted by: DavidAsher

Thanks. I assumed the cascadable stuff was some special thing for REALLY large installations.

As for location, right now both my TiVo's are under my main TV, so my plan was to put the 4x8 switch @ the TV (which is also where my HDTiVo will be). Thats about 100ft from the dish. With a powered multiswitch that shouldn't be a problem, right?

Thanks again,

David.

P.S. so what does cascadable a multiswitch do differently than an non-cascadable one?

Posted by: jrock

I already pre ordered the HD DirecTiVo so I don't really want to spend another $400 for the HD Package. I think I have everything I need except the new switch. I checked the 110 and 119 signals and one of them is just like the 101 and all in the high 80's to mid 90's then the other one only has 3 transponders all in the mid 70's.

Where can I get a cheap Cascadable 4x8 Multi Switch? I checked solidsignal.com and they are really expensive. They have cascadable 5x8's for over $200 or a 5x16 for $250. I have a cheap terk one now that came with the install. So if I can find a cheaper 4x8 or 5x8 cascadable I could run any of the 8 outputs from my terk to the 4 inputs on the new one and have a total of 12 correct? If you know of any place with them cheaper let me know.

I live in Old Saybrook Connecticut 06475.

Thanks.

-Joe

Posted by: Want1394

Get a Terk MS58 from the same place you pre-ordered your HD DirecTiVo - about $100.

Posted by: llogan

quote:
Originally posted by DavidAsher
Thanks. I assumed the cascadable stuff was some special thing for REALLY large installations.

As for location, right now both my TiVo's are under my main TV, so my plan was to put the 4x8 switch @ the TV (which is also where my HDTiVo will be). Thats about 100ft from the dish. With a powered multiswitch that shouldn't be a problem, right?

P.S. so what does cascadable a multiswitch do differently than an non-cascadable one?

Cascadeablility is applicable when you have two or more multiswitches. This has become a much more frequent topic for discussion recently because the Phase III dish which is more often installed these days has an integrated multiswitch, which is really handy for installations requiring no more than 4 runs (most installations) but a pain in the butt for those of use who need more than 4 runs.

So, all of your receivers are in one room? If so, then yes putting the multiswitch there will be fine.

A cascadeable multiswitch which also needs to be powered is capable of passing a 22khz tone back to multiswitch on the dish.

What follows is a lengthy explanation of what a multiswitch actually does:

Let's start with your basic round dish, which is pointed at the satellite at 101 degrees. With a normal dual LNB you have two feeds coming from the dish. This typically supports two regular receivers. What happens is that when you change a channel on a satellite receiver in your house, that channel corresponds to a specific feed from the satellite. Your receiver 'selects' one of these two feeds from your dish by sending a 13V or 18V signal. In this setup, you can independently control two televisions each with their own receiver because each receiver has its own independent connection back to the dual LNB. The reason you can't use splitters for instance is that if you have two receivers (both of which you're hoping to independently control) at the end of the splitter you won't actually be able to send both a 13V and 18V signal back from each receiver, you'll basically get only one feed or the other period.

Ok, so what does a multiswitch do? Imagine that you could keep both feeds (13V and 18V) open all the time and simply select the one you need when you need it, well a multiswitch holds both feeds open and then each resulting output can simply select the 13V or 18V signal from the multiswitch and not the LNB on the dish. Because you're now controlling which feed you select from the multiswitch and not the LNB on the dish you can increase the number of outputs that are available to you.

a 4x8 multiswitch simply takes this to the next level because not only do you have an LNB for the 101 satellite but you also have LNBs for the 110 and 119 satellites but the way in which those signals are kept 'open' and selected at a downstream multiswitch is by passing a 22khz tone to the upstream multiswitch. Without passing this tone the LNB signals from the upstream multiswitch for 110 and 119 would not be selectable.

Hopefully that all makes sense, I think feldon23 has some explanations about these concepts as well.

Posted by: llogan

quote:
Originally posted by jrock
I already pre ordered the HD DirecTiVo so I don't really want to spend another $400 for the HD Package. I think I have everything I need except the new switch. I checked the 110 and 119 signals and one of them is just like the 101 and all in the high 80's to mid 90's then the other one only has 3 transponders all in the mid 70's.

Where can I get a cheap Cascadable 4x8 Multi Switch? I checked solidsignal.com and they are really expensive. They have cascadable 5x8's for over $200 or a 5x16 for $250. I have a cheap terk one now that came with the install. So if I can find a cheaper 4x8 or 5x8 cascadable I could run any of the 8 outputs from my terk to the 4 inputs on the new one and have a total of 12 correct? If you know of any place with them cheaper let me know.

I live in Old Saybrook Connecticut 06475.

-Joe

I think your satellite needs to be tweaked a bit for signal, I think you should be able to get higher than 70 on Sat 110.

The Zinwell multiswitches (which is what DirecTV uses) are fairly inexpensive. But you'll be spending roughly $100 for it, hopefully that's not too much. and yes you're theory about multicascading is correct.

Here's a link to satellite installers but I think among them you should be able to find a few tv antenna installers http://www.freetvsatellite.org/freetv/CT54.html

Posted by: jrock

Do you remember where you saw the Zinwell multiswitches? I did a few searches online but no luck. I was thinking of maybe getting the HD $399 deal, I called and since I am a new customer I can't get the $99 deal but they will give me $20 off for 6 months so that would be cool then maybe when my HD DirecTiVo comes I could sell the HD Receiver on Ebay. They should include another MultiSwitch specially since I won't be needing the Dish. When the installer comes maybe I can pay him extra to install an OTA antenna also and kill all my birds with one stone then when the HD DirecTiVo comes I won't have to even call an installer just plug it in and be already tuned for HD. I have a few questions about the online deal though if anyone has done it.

1: What HD Receiver do you get with the $399 deal?
2: Does it have an HDVI connection?
3: What would the resale value on Ebay be?
4: Does the 12 month commitment include the mirror fee for that one unit or will I be able to swap it with my HD DirecTiVo without a problem?

Thanks.

-Joe

Posted by: llogan

Try here http://roxsat.biz/product_info.php?products_id=94
or you could just do a search on zinwell 4x8 on google, kicks back plenty of results

1) They're currently shipping a Samsung or a Hughes HTL-HD, can't remember the model of the Samsung

2) The Hughes has a DVI connection, not sure about the Samsung

3) As the Hughes unit is relatively new it's selling for about $440 on eBay

4) When you get your HD DirecTivo you'll be able to swap it out

Posted by: jrock

Thanks for all the info. I just called and ordered it, $470.58 after shipping and tax. The installer will be here on the 26th. They said to call back after the 31st when my Sunday Ticket promotion is over and they noted the account and will add the $20 off for 6 months to my account. Now I need to figure out what to get for an OTA setup. I checked antennaweb.org and it has me as needing a large directional antenna (the purple color code). I really just want CBS for locals and its about 50 miles away and from checking other forums they are sending signal out at low power. Do you have any suggestions on what to get for an OTA and where to get it?

Thanks.

-Joe

Posted by: Gromit

quote:
Originally posted by DavidAsher
Now, since the HDTiVo doesn't have SD outputs @ the same time as HD output I'm going to need to ADD it to my system instead of outplacing an existing TiVo -- so I need two more Sat wires from the dish.

Thanks for any help...

David.

I'm just learning about this stuff myself, so I'm in over my head already, but I wondering about the statement above. This implies that you can't record an HD signal on one tuner while recording an SD signal on the other. That's not the case with the upcoming HD TiVo is it?

Posted by: llogan

quote:
Originally posted by jrock
Now I need to figure out what to get for an OTA setup. I checked antennaweb.org and it has me as needing a large directional antenna (the purple color code). I really just want CBS for locals and its about 50 miles away and from checking other forums they are sending signal out at low power. Do you have any suggestions on what to get for an OTA and where to get it?
-Joe

Well, you definitely need a large directional antenna, the larger the better at your distance. I'd suggest checking out www.starkelectronic.com or http://www.warrenelectronics.com/ and calling them and ask them what antennas they recommend for your range. I'd personally suggest the Channel Master 4228. Ideally, find someone in your area who has a setup and find out what they've used, look for sports bars, etc with large yagi style antennas on the roof. If they used an installer get the number of that guy cause he'll have the best idea of what you need in your area to pull in a signal.

When you order such antennas though you usually can't return them because it's too easy for an element to have been broken. So the best method is to find a local installer who'll only charge you labor if he comes up empty.

Posted by: llogan

quote:
Originally posted by Gromit
I'm just learning about this stuff myself, so I'm in over my head already, but I wondering about the statement above. This implies that you can't record an HD signal on one tuner while recording an SD signal on the other. That's not the case with the upcoming HD TiVo is it?

No that's not what he's implying. He's making several statements:

1) That the new HD Tivo won't support HD and SD simultaneous playback of an HD recording

2) That that means that he will be just adding the HD Tivo as an additional receiver in that room.

3) and that that means that he'll now need at least two more sat runs to the HD Tivo because it's an additional receiver in that room.

You can most definitely record an SD signal on one tuner and an HD signal on the other tuner on the HD Tivo.

Posted by: Gromit

quote:
Originally posted by llogan
No that's not what he's implying. He's making several statements:

1) That the new HD Tivo won't support HD and SD simultaneous playback of an HD recording

2) That that means that he will be just adding the HD Tivo as an additional receiver in that room.

3) and that that means that he'll now need at least two more sat runs to the HD Tivo because it's an additional receiver in that room.

You can most definitely record an SD signal on one tuner and an HD signal on the other tuner on the HD Tivo.

Oh, OK. Makes sense now. He was wondering about splitting the output to 2 TVs, right?

Whew. Just a brief moment of "oh crap" there.

Thanks.

Posted by: llogan

Yes, the scenario he's looking to support (as am I) is to have a particular HD program on, let's say Bikini Destinations and have that showing on the HD display while via a different output from the HD receiver feeding an SD quality feed to another television elsewhere in the house.