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Star Trek Enterprise - Proving Ground
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Posted by: JYoung

Proving Ground
By Chris Black

Well, the return of Shran played by Jeffrey Coombs is usually a plus

My notes
Previously on…. (in case you forgot, we’re doing an arc)
It’s Shran…. Fade to credits. Not exactly a rousing teaser.
Another Xindi Council meeting.
Only 30% of the database? No backups? Stupid, stupid.
What was that scene in Engineering?
Nice bonding moment between Tucker and Shran.
Archer’s got a plan.
Sharn’s going to steal the weapon.
Although it’s nice to see Shran thinking about an alliance.
Ok, Archer wasn’t totally stupid in trusting Shran.

Not bad for an episode of Enterprise. We’re seeing some progress on the Xindi arc and Shran is a plus.
Allow me to rant a bit though how stupid it was for Enterprise not to have any type of back up for the Xindi database. Even if have to retrieve the off site copy from Starfleet Command.
I like the interplay between Shran and Archer.
The plot is a bit paint by numbers but it’s Coombs and Bakula that manage to pull out of average. And I like the fact that they showed Shran having a sense of honor.

Grade B-

Posted by: Worf

But you got to admit, that plot device of activation codes and it going kaboom on the ship is so cliche...

Though, you have to admit, it was way too obvious that something was up - an ally that suddenlyl reappears, and is so friendly? I think not...

Posted by: Big Deficit

It'll take 17 days at full warp, so into the "sphere zone" at 1/2 impulse we go. 3-2-1 and were heavily damaged and dead in space. Good plan!

The really sad thing is these are the final lasting memories we'll have of Trek. I don't think there's much chance this series lives another year, nor are any new series/movies likely in the near future. Good job B&B!

Posted by: brahamt

I think you are right about this being the last year of Trek for a while. Though I really liked this episode, I don't find myself really looking forward to each weeks episode.

There were weeks that I watched, just so JYoungs commentary made sense to me.

As usual JYoung is on point with his assessment of this episode, though personally I'd give a B+.

One of the best eps of the season.

Posted by: kiljoy

I liked it. Could've been less cliche, no doubt, but overall the action was good and the writing wasn't terrible. I'd really like them to finish out the story arc sometime. It's painfully slow, when you've got the eps that don't take it anywhere thrown in there.

Tony

Posted by: jones07

Star Trek Enterprise will do it's full Five-plus year run just like all the rest in the Franchise. You B&B haters are dreaming if you think Paramount will cancel Enterprise after this season..........Dreaming I tell ya. :p

If anything Paramount will cancel B&B before they remove the Franchise from UPN prime time TV. And I don't think thats even going to happen.

B&B have pick up the pace in the 3rd season of Enterprise. Just as many Enterprise fans have said. For some reason with Star Trek the 3rd season is aways the charm

B+ for this episode

Posted by: epsilondelta

I liked it too, but here you have a super-secret test site of a world-destroying weapon guarded by 4 ships that are no match for Enterprise's weapons, which are primitive even by Andorian standards?

If I were Xindi, I'd have destroyed the "mining ship" first, ask questions later.

The Andorians steal the weapon & are not pursued??? Surely with such weapons technology, Xindi have fast ships?

I know it's just TV, but it's Trek, so I over-analyse. :)

epsilondelta

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Star Trek Enterprise will do it's full Five-plus year run just like all the rest in the Franchise. You B&B haters are dreaming if you think Paramount will cancel Enterprise after this season..........Dreaming I tell ya. :p

If anything Paramount will cancel B&B before they remove the Franchise from UPN prime time TV. And I don't think thats even going to happen.

TNG, DS9, and Voyager ran for 7 seasons.

You haven't been paying attention.

a fourth season for Enterprise may not be as secure as some thought

Anyone subscribe to Variety?

also
http://www.trektoday.com/news/190104_01.shtml

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
a fourth season for Enterprise may not be as secure as some thought

Oh my God! What am I going to watch on Wednesday...

Yeah I know, TiVo... so what am I going to watch on my Wevoday? :D

Posted by: jones07

I said Five plus years. Meaning more then five.
That's what I meant, but I did not say it to well......as usual ;)

I would really be surprise if Paramount kills off their cash cow before it reaches its 5th year. 5 years worth of syndication is worth a lot of money

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
I said Five plus years. Meaning more then five.
That's what I meant, but I did not say it to well......as usual ;)

I would really be surprise if Paramount kills off their cash cow before it reaches its 5th year. 5 years worth of syndication is worth a lot of money

A show that continues to decline in viewership has problems attracting advertising. Enterprise is currently in 110th place (out of 128) for the season. UPN actually has 5 or six shows doing better than Enterprise, including WWF, for cryin out loud.

Not entirely certain but if they want to syndicate Enterprise they need to get around 100 episodes, so you might get a 4th year. But I doubt much more than that, barring the removal of B&B and the insertion of someone who actually has a clue.

Posted by: edc

100 episodes is the "magic number." If it is renewed, "ST:Enterprise" hits that number at the end of season four. For that reason alone, I think Paramount will find a place for at least one more original season, whatever UPNs decision.

I still contend "Showtime" would be the perfect place for the show to land.

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by edc
100 episodes is the "magic number." If it is renewed, "ST:Enterprise" hits that number at the end of season four. For that reason alone, I think Paramount will find a place for at least one more original season, whatever UPNs decision.

I still contend "Showtime" would be the perfect place for the show to land.

Oddly enough, Enterprise appears to be doing well in England.

http://www.trektoday.com/news/210104_04.shtml

800K viewers as apposed to the USs 1300K users for the US...

Posted by: Fleegle

quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
Oh my God! What am I going to watch on Wednesday...

Yeah I know, TiVo... so what am I going to watch on my Wevoday? :D

...Lousy Smarch weather!

Posted by: edc

quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
Oddly enough, Enterprise appears to be doing well in England.
800K viewers as apposed to the USs 1300K users for the US...

ST:Enterprise's ratings haven't fallen that much :)

The premiere of "The Xindi" in the US got a 2.6/5, or roughly 4.1 million viewers.

Posted by: TivoGeezer

I liked the series better when they were explorers. This new paralell to the "War on Terror" is a downer. How many others saw G. W.'s "my way or the highway" approach in Archer when he insisted on the Andorians handling the capture of the probe with him on board?

But back at the original thread, did you see the way Shran's antennae dipped as he walked under a low overhead beam? How cool was that? Also, the way they stuck out sideways as he down a shot of Andorian Ale?

Posted by: Big Deficit

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
I said Five plus years. Meaning more then five.
That's what I meant, but I did not say it to well......as usual ;)

I would really be surprise if Paramount kills off their cash cow before it reaches its 5th year. 5 years worth of syndication is worth a lot of money

Cash cow? If Enterprise was anything but a Trek franchise, it would have been canceled last season. They changed the whole premise of the show to boost its pathetic ratings. The results? Bubkas, it's the lowest rated drama series this season. The last 2 movies tanked and the computer games don't sell like they used to either. Even Trekkers have bailed on Enterprise. I think it's time for the Star Trek universe to go dark for a while and let the memories of too many poor quality series/movies/games fade. maybe then Viacom will give the Trek franchise to a producer that will respect its fans and return it to the SciFi classic status it deserves.

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by jones07

I would really be surprise if Paramount kills off their cash cow before it reaches its 5th year. 5 years worth of syndication is worth a lot of money

It's not really up to Paramount in that sense. UPN is technically a separate business from Paramount Studios.
UPN orders and pays for the episodes of Enterprise to be shown on it's stations and makes it's money selling the advertising time. I'm not sure that they are making a profit considering how low the ratings are.
UPN is not required to order more episodes of Enterprise and if they don't, I'm not sure what Paramount Studios would do.

The franchise has been getting a hard look and the higher ups though. With Nemesis tanking badly, Enterprise dismally plodding along, merchandising sales down, ST doesn't have the financial clout it used to..

Posted by: jones07

quote:
Originally posted by Big Deficit
Cash cow? If Enterprise was anything but a Trek franchise, it would have been canceled last season. They changed the whole premise of the show to boost its pathetic ratings. The results? Bubkas, it's the lowest rated drama series this season. The last 2 movies tanked and the computer games don't sell like they used to either. Even Trekkers have bailed on Enterprise. I think it's time for the Star Trek universe to go dark for a while and let the memories of too many poor quality series/movies/games fade. maybe then Viacom will give the Trek franchise to a producer that will respect its fans and return it to the SciFi classic status it deserves.

Sounds like you are bunt out on Trek. Maybe you should take a break an stop watching

Cash Cow ? Yes. The Trek franchise is a license to print money. Books TV, Movies and PC games, you name it.

Edit: But as I sit here drinking my sugar free peach Ice tea. I think You may be right about going dark for 4 or 5 years. I would not be surprise to See that happen after the 4th or 5th year of Enterprise

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by edc
ST:Enterprise's ratings haven't fallen that much :)

The premiere of "The Xindi" in the US got a 2.6/5, or roughly 4.1 million viewers.

Yeah you're right but the numbers are still dismal.

http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~mvrojo/entratings.htm

Posted by: Big Deficit

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Sounds like you are bunt out on Trek. Maybe you should take a break an stop watching

Cash Cow ? Yes. The Trek franchise is a license to print money. Books TV, Movies and PC games, you name it.

Edit: But as I sit here drinking my sugar free peach Ice tea. I think You may be right about going dark for 4 or 5 years. I would not be surprise to See that happen after the 4th or 5th year of Enterprise

The cake with a hole in the middle? My Mom used to make those, Yum. :p

I'm not burnt out, I'm disappointed!

Trek USED to be a license to print money. I don't know about book sales, but the recent movies lost BIG, Enterprise is low rated and game sales have suffered greatly. B&B need to go, NOW!

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Sounds like you are bunt out on Trek. Maybe you should take a break an stop watching

Cash Cow ? Yes. The Trek franchise is a license to print money. Books TV, Movies and PC games, you name it.

Edit: But as I sit here drinking my sugar free peach Ice tea. I think You may be right about going dark for 4 or 5 years. I would not be surprise to See that happen after the 4th or 5th year of Enterprise

http://cinescape.com/0/editorial.as...55&obj_id=40630

Sooner, I think. A crew that expects 4+ years of work does not run scared, before year 3 is over...

Posted by: allan

Cash cow? I'm afraid you're only half right. I'm sure bovines are involved somewhere.

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by allan
Cash cow? I'm afraid you're only half right. I'm sure bovines are involved somewhere.

It would help to understand ST's current predicament if one thinks of B&B as bulls...

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
It would help to understand ST's current predicament if one thinks of B&B as bulls...

and if their writing is excrement.......

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
and if their writing is excrement.......

as well as their leadership.

But it does make me wonder. If UPN refuses to buy anymore episodes, what network would? SpikeTV ?

Posted by: timckelley

Please, please don't let Star Trek go dark for 4 or 5 years.

I really like Enterprise and I would enjoy watching it indefinitely into the future.

Posted by: edc

quote:
Please, please don't like Star Trek go dark for 4 or 5 years.

I would tend to agree. A lengthy hiatus would not help the "franchise," from either a moneymaking or creative standpoint. Case in point? "Doctor Who." After one year became two, became ten plus, the majority just didn't care. Now that it is back, the RW press are treating it much more as a novelty than an ongoing concert (although that may change as the actual airdate draws closer)

I would make an exception if TPTB had a plan which would start the day after cancellation, and include new creative product (movie, TV, miniseries) with a locked-in release date (three years?) That is plenty of time to ensure everything is "completely right."

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by edc
I would tend to agree. A lengthy hiatus would not help the "franchise," from either a moneymaking or creative standpoint. Case in point? "Doctor Who." After one year became two, became ten plus, the majority just didn't care. Now that it is back, the RW press are treating it much more as a novelty than an ongoing concert (although that may change as the actual airdate draws closer)

I would make an exception if TPTB had a plan which would start the day after cancellation, and include new creative product (movie, TV, miniseries) with a locked-in release date (three years?) That is plenty of time to ensure everything is "completely right."

They'd have to buy some creativity because it's clear they're fresh out, atm

Posted by: allan

quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
They'd have to buy some creativity because it's clear they're fresh out, atm

The thing is, there's still a lot they could do with Star Trek. Heck, they could have done a lot with the Enterprise concept, but they screwed it up. I'd love a really good ST series, but I'm afraid it won't happen with B&B.

Posted by: timckelley

There's just something about the Star Trek franchise. When I watched TOS in the 70's (I know it was already a repeat by then), I became hooked. Ever since then, any spinoff they ever make I always give the benefit of a doubt that it'll be okay. As long as they do a halfway decent job on the spinoffs, I'll probably deeply enjoy them.

If there are a lot of people like me, then it shouldn't be hard for them to make shows that will be appealing to us.

Posted by: jones07

quote:
Originally posted by timckelley
If there are a lot of people like me, then it shouldn't be hard for them to make shows that will be appealing to us.

Agreed. I haven't miss an episode of Enterprise yet. But
Maybe we just have to face it, TV Sci-fi will never be a big draw.
SAAB
FireFly
Farscape

Just to name a few. All canned because of low ratings. Maybe Syndication is the only way TV sci-fi can flourish. Syndication where you can get away with lower weekly ratings

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by timckelley
There's just something about the Star Trek franchise. When I watched TOS in the 70's (I know it was already a repeat by then), I became hooked. Ever since then, any spinoff they ever make I always give the benefit of a doubt that it'll be okay. As long as they do a halfway decent job on the spinoffs, I'll probably deeply enjoy them.

If there are a lot of people like me, then it shouldn't be hard for them to make shows that will be appealing to us.

Well that's the problem isn't it. TPTB figure that the fans will chow down any crap they put out as long as it says Star Trek on it.
This is the attitude that beget the mediocre Voyager which beget the even more mediocre Enterprise......

And then they're surprised when Nemesis tanks and Enteprise takes critical drubbings and the rating sink lower and lower.....

You should really read through the previous Enterprise threads on this board....

Posted by: jones07

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Agreed. I haven't miss an episode of Enterprise yet. But
Maybe we just have to face it, TV Sci-fi will never be a big draw.
SAAB
FireFly
Farscape

Just to name a few. All canned because of low ratings. Maybe Syndication is the only way TV sci-fi can flourish. Syndication where you can get away with lower weekly ratings

I'm a little suprise that is at the top of the llist. People still watch that ?
How long have Andromeda been on the air now ?

Top SciFi Syndicated Shows

R
A
T
I
N
G
S

I
N
F
O

Andromeda-------------2.3
She Spies-------------2.2
Mutant X--------------2.1
Stargate SG-1---------2.1 - repeat of "Shadow Play"
The X-Files-----------1.9
Buffy-----------------1.7
3rd Rock--------------1.5
Angel-----------------1.5
Beastmaster-----------1.5

Posted by: generalpatton71

Many of you are way off. First I went to Wall Mart today and there was no less then seven new books for sale in the Trek univ. Next up the video games! First ALLOT of the trek games have sold well. There was a PC where you commanded the Enterprise as Picard I believe that was a great game and sold very well. Second there has also been some very good first person shooters out there of Voyager that sold well also with in the last couple of years. I agree some have sold horrible but those ones also were horrible games! Next up is the latest movie. I loved it and it's my favorite Trek movie ever. It did bad because some DUMB ASSS released one week ahead of LOTR two towers. Everything is crushed next to LOTR! Proof of this is the HUGE sales of the movie on DVD! Next up the series. I agree Enterprise could be better and it is getting better. I don't blame the series as much as I do the Network. UPN is in the tank now! Enterprise is literally it's longest running show besides WWE. I don't doubt many of the Execs at UPN feel if you cancel Enterprise you might as well shut down the network. I'm betting Enterprise will make 7 seasons whether it's on UPN or Fox, WB or even SCFI. SCIFI is becoming bigger and bigger and need content. A Enter prise\BattleStar Galatica would make a very compelling team to challenge for top rated cable channel even beating UPN and WB many times. The other factor is Activation witch makes the videogames is suing Paramount for not supporting Trek enough. I'm sure paramount won't want to give any more reason for the judge to rule in Activations favor!

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by generalpatton71
Many of you are way off. First I went to Wall Mart today and there was no less then seven new books for sale in the Trek univ. Next up the video games! First ALLOT of the trek games have sold well. There was a PC where you commanded the Enterprise as Picard I believe that was a great game and sold very well. Second there has also been some very good first person shooters out there of Voyager that sold well also with in the last couple of years. I agree some have sold horrible but those ones also were horrible games! Next up is the latest movie. I loved it and it's my favorite Trek movie ever. It did bad because some DUMB ASSS released one week ahead of LOTR two towers. Everything is crushed next to LOTR! Proof of this is the HUGE sales of the movie on DVD! Next up the series. I agree Enterprise could be better and it is getting better. I don't blame the series as much as I do the Network. UPN is in the tank now! Enterprise is literally it's longest running show besides WWE. I don't doubt many of the Execs at UPN feel if you cancel Enterprise you might as well shut down the network. I'm betting Enterprise will make 7 seasons whether it's on UPN or Fox, WB or even SCFI. SCIFI is becoming bigger and bigger and need content. A Enter prise\BattleStar Galatica would make a very compelling team to challenge for top rated cable channel even beating UPN and WB many times. The other factor is Activation witch makes the videogames is suing Paramount for not supporting Trek enough. I'm sure paramount won't want to give any more reason for the judge to rule in Activations favor!

1) Activision.
2) Some ST books and their Amazon rankings:

A Time to Be Born (Star Trek The Next Generation) - 1,258
Deny Thy Father (Star Trek: The Lost Era 2355-2357) - 4,242
The Art of the Impossible (Star Trek: The Lost Era, 2328-2346) 17,049
The Sundered (Star Trek: The Lost Era, 2298) - 7,621
A Time to Die (Star Trek The Next Generation) - 31,517

3) Get Entertainment Weekly and watch their Neilsen numbers. While these numbers are not an indication of a show's quality, they do translate to advertising revenue. Enterprise, sadly, is in the 15 percentile range (meaning that 85% of the shows reported do better than it in viewership), over all. And UPN has at least 7 shows that get better ratings than it, including wrestling....

4)SciFi is reluctant to spend much money on BSG, having ordered only a meager 6 episodes. SciFI tends to like inexpensive shows, something Farscape and Battlestar Galactica are not.

5) Poor game sales are the reason Activision is suing Paramount, hadn't you heard?

6) Nemesis did poorly because it was 1) poorly written, 2) predictable and 3) formulaic. Nice special effects but little else.

Posted by: jones07

Did B&B write Star Trek books and Activision PC games ? Maybe B&B are not the reason for Star Trek's falling star. Maybe over-saturation has something to do with it. I stood in line with my wife to be and 5 of our nerdy friends for 1.5 hours to see the first Star Trek movie. And looking back that was one poor boring movie but we stayed for two showings . "you could do that back then :) " Why ? we was dying to see something "Star Trek". Now Star Trek is all over the place.

over-saturation maybe the problem

Posted by: Big Deficit

quote:
Originally posted by jones07

over-saturation maybe the problem

That's why I think a few years hiatus might help. ST needs to be wrested away from the control of B&B. Then some time will be needed for the hopefully more creative new people to come up with new scenarios. I think a dark period is all but inevitable now. After the Nemesis debacle, no studio is going to pony up the $$$ for another ST movie any time soon and with Enterprises Sterling ratings, I don't think too many network execs will give a go a head to another ST universe series in the near future.

Posted by: allan

My problem is, what will fill this "dark spot"? Will Enterprise get replaced by some bottom-feeding (un)reality show? Though there are a lot of shows I'd rather see than Enterprise, there are also a lot of worse shows, and I've been wathing a Star Trek variant on Wednesdays almost forever, and it will suck when that ends.

Posted by: jhausmann

quote:
Originally posted by allan
My problem is, what will fill this "dark spot"? Will Enterprise get replaced by some bottom-feeding (un)reality show? Though there are a lot of shows I'd rather see than Enterprise, there are also a lot of worse shows, and I've been wathing a Star Trek variant on Wednesdays almost forever, and it will suck when that ends.

Jyoung's link indicated something along the line of "Amish in the City". Paint drying might be more entertaining.

Posted by: allan

quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
Jyoung's link indicated something along the line of "Amish in the City". Paint drying might be more entertaining.

:(:( :(

Posted by: bprothero

Why don't they turn Enterprise into a great show... something us fans want to see... like a story arc that covers how the United Federation of Planets began? We already have the chronology and know some of the key events in Star Trek history. Enterprise is suppose to take place in this time period and it covers some of the Star Trek universe's most interesting events like the first encounter and war with the Romulans, Klingons and all of the other races that are now part of the Federation.

I was actually hoping that this episode was going to be a key point in Star Trek history by showing how the Andorians and Earthlings became allies. Instead, they screwed it up and missed the boat. It was a good episode, one of the best this season, but it could have been much more.

If Beavis and Butthead had half a brain, they would set this show on course before it is too late.

Hey... I have an idea! Why not hire J. Michael Straczynski (Babylon5) to write the story arc and some of the key episodes! Now, if anyone could turn the tide for Star Trek it would be JMS!

Posted by: brahamt

And this is the reason, and the only reason, I am still watching many of the shows that I still watch. I don't have a problem with reality show, and in fact Survivor is one of my favorite shows of all. But, all of these other 'reality' shows are really people preening and primping (and pimping) for some pub.

That is still no excuse for poor execution by any show.

quote:
Originally posted by allan
My problem is, what will fill this "dark spot"? Will Enterprise get replaced by some bottom-feeding (un)reality show? Though there are a lot of shows I'd rather see than Enterprise, there are also a lot of worse shows, and I've been wathing a Star Trek variant on Wednesdays almost forever, and it will suck when that ends.

Posted by: ccwf

Clearly, what's needed to sell SF to the masses is a SF+reality show (shades of “Xevivor”). ;)

Posted by: Cletus

quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
Clearly, what's needed to sell SF to the massse is a SF+reality show (shades of “Xevivor”). ;)

Have mercy, kill me now! :D