TiVo Community Forums Archives - Digital Cable vs. DirecTV

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Digital Cable vs. DirecTV
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Posted by: sfsaf

I am going to be the lucky recipient of TiVo as a gift and it has been recommended that DirecTV is better than digital cable in using TiVo. I'd like some feedback on anyone's experiences with that? I'm reticent to get the DirecTV dish (for aesthetic purposes) but if it is significantly going to impact the quality of my experience with TiVo, I will consider it.

Thanks in advance.
sfsaf

Posted by: FatherTed

DirecTV is far better than the digital cable able in this area. If you're planning on Tivo for use with DirecTV you should get the DirecTV DVR with Tivo. You'll get exact recording reproduction of the DirecTV digital stream as opposed to the recompression that occurs on a Standalone Tivo. You'll also gain the ability to record two programs at once because there are two tuners. Standalone Tivo units have only one tuner. This is particularly important with the scheduling conflicts that are currently occuring with the networks and their 'off the clock' starts of shows a couple minutes early.

Posted by: DTG

quote:
Originally posted by sfsaf
I am going to be the lucky recipient of TiVo as a gift and it has been recommended that DirecTV is better than digital cable in using TiVo. I'd like some feedback on anyone's experiences with that? I'm reticent to get the DirecTV dish (for aesthetic purposes) but if it is significantly going to impact the quality of my experience with TiVo, I will consider it.

Direct TiVos are not only much cheaper but also record at a higher quality than any of the stand alones. If you would like to join me in a midnight tree chopping party on my neighbours property, I could get Direct TiVo too :D

Posted by: gfb107

See the link in my signature

Posted by: phone1

It's a common misconception that "digital cable" means all channels are "digital" quality. Untrue. 99% of cable companies still distribute channels 2-99 in analog format. The only digital channels are the higher numbered ones. Also as pointed out, an SA TiVo takes the output of your cable box, (whatever the format) in analog form, converts it to MPEG for storage and then back again to analog for viewing. The extra step results in image degradation.

DTiVos record the digital stream from the satellite and then convert for viewing, skipping the encoding step (already done by DTV using better quality equipment), and all channels are digital.

One exception: quality on locals may not measure up to national channels, depending on how each local affiliate provides the signal to DTV.

quote:
Originally posted by sfsaf
I'm reticent to get the DirecTV dish (for aesthetic purposes) but if it is significantly going to impact the quality of my experience with TiVo, I will consider it.

I think the word you may be looking for here is reluctant (unless you don't want to talk to your wife about it! :))

My SO is as picky as they come when it comes to the appearance of our home, but our dish is located discretely on the back roof and can't be seen from the street or even the driveway. YMMV.

Posted by: dylanemcgregor

Another thing to keep in mind if you go for an integrated DirecTiVo unit is that you don't have to mess with IR blasters. For a Stand Alone TiVo to control your digital cable box it needs to use IR blasters to change the channel on the box. This usually works well, but will inevitably lead to some problems and occasional missed channel changes. No need to worry about that with the combo boxes. Just something to think about.

-Dylan

Posted by: crazywater

So far I have not been "converted" to DirecTV despite the constant bashing of cable on these forums. I currently have iO from Cablevision and I have tried to justify switching to DirecTV and everytime I end up staying with cable. Switching to DirecTV, for me, would result in losing TiVo functionality (no HMO, no 4.0 software), losing cable's video on demand service which I do use, significantly reducing the premium movie channels I currently receive with my cable package, and the monthly savings going to DirecTV only amounts to a few dollars a month, like $3. Add to that the cost and inconvenience of acquiring/installing the new equipment and at this point it is just not worth it.

Posted by: jones07

Bashing the cable company has become as American as apple pie. People just do it, to do it. Like bashing Microsoft was a few years back

Posted by: FatherTed

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Like bashing Microsoft was a few years back

A few years back? That's a daily event.

Posted by: allan

quote:
Originally posted by crazywater
So far I have not been "converted" to DirecTV despite the constant bashing of cable on these forums. I currently have iO from Cablevision and I have tried to justify switching to DirecTV and everytime I end up staying with cable. Switching to DirecTV, for me, would result in losing TiVo functionality (no HMO, no 4.0 software), losing cable's video on demand service which I do use, significantly reducing the premium movie channels I currently receive with my cable package, and the monthly savings going to DirecTV only amounts to a few dollars a month, like $3. Add to that the cost and inconvenience of acquiring/installing the new equipment and at this point it is just not worth it.

I'm in a similar boat. I've had no problems with cable. The recent price increase just means they're ALMOST as expensive as DirecTV, and since my SA is lifetimed, the $5.00 DTivo fee is more than $0/month on my SA. I'd love to be able to record 2 shows at the same time, but the hassle of switching puts me off.

Posted by: pkscout

quote:
Originally posted by crazywater
So far I have not been "converted" to DirecTV despite the constant bashing of cable on these forums. I currently have iO from Cablevision and I have tried to justify switching to DirecTV and everytime I end up staying with cable. Switching to DirecTV, for me, would result in losing TiVo functionality (no HMO, no 4.0 software), losing cable's video on demand service which I do use, significantly reducing the premium movie channels I currently receive with my cable package, and the monthly savings going to DirecTV only amounts to a few dollars a month, like $3. Add to that the cost and inconvenience of acquiring/installing the new equipment and at this point it is just not worth it.

You've made a good choice for you. And I think that's what these tend to boil down to. What makes sense for you. For me, I don't use VOD, I can manage without HMO/4.x (but would like it), and don't have any premium channels. I'll save that same $3 to $5 as you, but for me it will bump me from analog cable and a single tuner TiVo to digital and a dual tuner HDTiVo (OK, I have to pay for the HDTiVo, but you get the point).

All I can recommend to the OP is to get the channel listings and pricing for both, figure out the functionality you want, and then go with what gets you that. Happy hunting. :D

Posted by: quarkman97

There are pluses and minuses for both formats.

Look around and search in this forum and you can weigh the pros and cons of each for yourself. But, be warned, you will hear more cheering for "D*" than cable on these forums.

I have TW digital cable and have not had any channel changing issues with my IR blasters, and have an s-video connection from my cable box--> tivo (recording everthing on Medium) --> TV and I don't notice anything HORRIBLE about the quality of the picture. Although I do agree that the picture quality of the rca/coax connections from your cable box to your Tivo and then to your TV are noticeable when comparing it to a setup that has S-video connections throughout or (gasp!) a feed from DirecTV.

Some cablecos do not offer the svideo out on their cable boxes, however. And some people just cannot get DirecTV where they live. (like me)

The other downfall is that when Tivo is recording a channel on your digital cable box, you have to either watch only analog channels (unless you have a second cable box) or watch something already recorded. This sounds "bad", but once you get enough things recorded on your Tivo, you won't notice.

There was a good thread that got a little heated a while back. It was something titled "Enough with the DirecTV whoring" or something. Pretty good opinions for both sides.

My $.02

Posted by: JimSpence

A question to those of you who have HMO.

How often do you use it?

And which functions do you use?

Posted by: CrispyCritter

quote:
Originally posted by JimSpence
A question to those of you who have HMO.

How often do you use it?

And which functions do you use?

Probably 3-4 times most days. Once a day for show transfer to watch a program while my wife is exercising. Once a day for music while I'm exercising. Probably once or twice a day for music on our main TiVo. An occasional other show transfer.

Photos, perhaps once a month. Show scheduling basically never.

Posted by: JimSpence

Thanks, for that info.

Since, I have series 1 DirecTV DVRs, I'll have to wait for them to die before updating to a version with HMO. Whenever that may be. :)

Posted by: steuert

Most people who can get all the channels they want via DTV choose DTiVo rather than SA TiVo + cable. IMO, it's not necessarily that cable reception is all that bad, but that DTiVos are so superior to the SA's.

As mentioned above, PQ on DTiVos is always perfect, with no quality settings to mess with. You have TWO tuners, which is a great advantage. And, last but not least, DTiVos cost much less to buy and operate than SA's.
A two-tuner setup w/ DTiVo will cost about $100 for hardware + $5/mo. for TiVo service. Comparable costs for an SA setup would be about $500 for hardware + $26/mo. for TiVo service.

To put it another way, if you amortize the hardware cost over four years, the annual cost of an SA setup would be $437. vs. $85 for DTiVo, exclusive of programming charges for cable or DTV, as the case may be.

BTW, the "esthetics" of the dish are not necessarily all that bad if you can locate it in an inconspicuous place (not necessarily where the installer wants to stick it) and paint it to match your house. And it will show all your neighbors you are now a member of the Satellite TV cognoscenti.

Posted by: quarkman97

quote:
Comparable costs for an SA setup would be about $500 for hardware + $26/mo. for TiVo service.

Can I see your math work on this? I'm curious how you came to those figures...

Posted by: crazywater

quote:
Originally posted by JimSpence
A question to those of you who have HMO.

How often do you use it?

And which functions do you use?

I use show MRV 5-6 times a week, since I record shows on my bedroom TiVo that have time conflicts with the Living Room TiVo. I find it very useful and my wife loves it since she hates falling asleep on the couch, now if there is a show on the LR TiVo she just sends it upstairs to the BR.

I use the music a lot, and the photos gets the least use but is very convenient, love sitting in front of the TV instead of crowding around the computer screen.

Remote scheduling don't use much but it is nice to have.

Posted by: quarkman97

I just subscribed to the HMO last week because of the $20 off the $99 price.

I can't say that I use it as often as I like, but, as every guy knows, "it's nice to know that it's there just in case..."

BUT, the main reason I got it is that Tivo announced TivoToGo at CES this year. And you will need the HMO to reap the benefits of this service.

Primer on TivoToGo: you can probably get more info if you do some searching on the forum, but the gist of it is: is that allows Stand Alone users w/the HMO enabled to send Tivo recorded programs over the network to our PCs to either watch that show on the PC OR burn the show(s) to a DVD.

Now that's something (unless you go through a myriad of steps and conversions) that DirecTivo doesn't offer.

Also, in defense of the SA Tivo with one tuner: I believe as long as you prioritize your shows and don't overload on network TV (that doesn't repeat that often), I don't think the dual tuners are THAT big of a deal for me. Granted, DirecTV has a *distinct* advantage, and *sure, I'd love to have them on my SA. But, just like someone that loses a limb.....you deal with it and work around it.

Posted by: rodneyremington

There are pros and cons to both, as others have stated. Generally those who have one system will advocate it over another, that's human nature.

Keep in mind that although it's true that the DirecTiVo units record directly from the digital satellite feed, Directv has a reputation for compressing their signals and generally having worse overall PQ than the best cable signals available. This is especially true for HDTV, but that's another forum. In my opinion this often negates any percieved advantage over cable with a TiVo in regards to Picture quality.

Now the two tuner issue, that one is definitely a win for Driectv.

I have comcast by the way. I'm happy with it.

Posted by: steuert

"Can I see your math work on this? I'm curious how you came to those figures..."

This covers two SA's, ($250+$250=$500) and two TiVo subscriptions ($13+$13=$26). IMO this is the most accurate way to compare SA's to DTiVos, which come with two tuners, with DTV charges of $5/mo. for TiVo service.

If and when TiVo puts two tuners in their SA's and covers them both w/ one TiVo subscription, the numbers would of course change dramatically.

Posted by: quarkman97

quote:
This covers two SA's, ($250+$250=$500) and two TiVo subscriptions ($13+$13=$26). IMO this is the most accurate way to compare SA's to DTiVos, which come with two tuners, with DTV charges of $5/mo. for TiVo service.

If you are including the HMO on both, yes, one SA unit would be $250, BUT the other would only be $200. If you purchase another HMO for another SA Tivo you own, the price of the HMO for that, and every additional unit on your network is only $50.

Plus, with the additon of another SA tivo to your network, you are also doubling your recording capability with 40 more GB of space. Compared to that of a standard DirecTV unit, which only comes with 35 GB of space initially. Which, is not that much if you are using your dual tuner capability to its full potential.

I only bring up this point, because I convinced my brother to get a SA 40-hr unit right around Christmas and he is running out of space with only one tuner on his SA.

Not trying to be a PITA, just making sure I'm following your logic. :cool:

Posted by: brenrher

I've got Comcast and it's fine. In order to watch and record at the same time, I'm stopping by Comcast tomorrow and picking up a second cable box (not an HD) and splitting the signal. It's a solution recommended on this board and I do load up on network shows, so this solution works for me.

Posted by: CraigHB

I started with SA TiVo and digital cable, but switched to DirecTiVo a couple weeks ago. I'm glad I did. DirecTiVo saves me $25 per month and the initial expense was $130 less. The picture quality is noticably better and I can tell already, the satellite feed is more reliable than my cable feed was. The playback quality on TiVo recordings is much better and DirecTiVo has 75% more capacity per GB of disk space when compared to the default recording quality of High I was using for SA TiVo. In other words, the 160GB disk in my SA TiVo got me 70 hours at High Quality. That same disk in my DirecTiVo gets me 120 hours of broadcast quality. With SA TiVo and digital cable, I had to get another cable box because my wife likes to watch live TV on occasion (shopping channels). DirecTiVo took me from three boxes to one which saved me $13 per month and freed up a shelf in my entertainment center. Hooking it up was a hell of a lot easier too. For $12 less per month, DirecTV's Total Choice Plus comprises a bigger channel line-up than the Enhanced Basic I had with digital cable. Aside from the benefits of DirecTiVo versus SA TiVo, had I realized sooner how much better DirecTV is than digital cable, I would have switched a long time ago. I guess those DirecTV commercials are right. Of course, my configuration lends itself to the biggest savings because of the pricing structure of my local cable company and the DirecTV package I have. However, even if cost was the same, I would still feel the switch was worth the trouble.

- Craig

Posted by: MarshallG

Not sure if I can add much to what's already been said, but for me, DirecTV is vastly better.

I have two rooms set-up with DirecTiVo's in my house. We have a "Total Choice" package that includes 20 local channels and everything short of premium channels like HBO/Showtime. Loca The bill for both rooms, including TiVo service, is under $50 total. ($40 for the DirecTV service, $5 for the TiVo service, and $5 for the additional receiver).

DirecTV has LOTS of video on demand; most likely the same releases as your cable company. The titles I can get tonight are Bad Boys II, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Pirates of the Caribbean, Finding Nemo, Lara Croft, Bruce Almighty, X2, How to Deal, Sinbad, Legally Blonde 2, Matrix 2, Dumb and Dumberer, Charlies Angels 2, Anything else, The Hulk, 28 Days Later, Seabiscuit, and a bunch of adult movies and some other titles I never heard of.

If you're a sports fan, DirecTV has unbelievable, exclusive sports packages; you can pretty much see every out-of-town professional sporting event, although those packags cost more. They have some other exclusives, such as PBSKids, which is the PBS morning programming played all day long.

I paid $100 for each of the TiVo boxes, including installation! And be sure to get a deal that includes installation, because it's somewhat complicated and expensive -- you need an dual LNB antenna, and for the 2nd room, a multiswitch. DirecTV paid for all that!

I've seen lots of ugly dish installations. I think it's because the easiest way to install a dish is directly over your living room, which is usually in the front of the house. (I think there's something wrong with people who do this.) I painted my dish to match my house, and then mounted it in a location that isn't visible from the street. In fact, the only way to see the dish is to stand right next to it and look up. Once I installed it, I realized that the dish is so hard to see that the paint job was unnecessary.

It took a little more effort to paint the dish and find the "perfect spot," but I think it was well worth it. For us, putting the dish in the front of the house was a non-starter.

When all's said and done, I don't see any benefit to cable, unless you live in a spot where you can't install the dish. The only think I don't get with DirecTV is our public access channel, so if I want to watch a City Council meeting, I have to go to City Hal.

Posted by: adelimon

I haven't made the switch yet but I'm going to soon and the advantage for me is simple: more for my cash.

Right now I have analog cable. TW raises the rates EVERY YEAR by at least $1-$3 a month. At this point they've completely ditched adding anything to analog cable. And it's $48/month.

So why not switch to digital? Well that's about $65/month. It's got a bunch more channels, VOD, music choice.

Wait, DirectTV also haas these things! And it's got a better picture quality too. For $38.99 a month (+5 for an additional box). No brainer there.

Posted by: quarkman97

Who records stuff on high on a SA Tivo?

I just don't get it. I started at BASIC with my coax and rca connections to my TV and thought it was pretty decent. After getting another hard drive put in (not because I was running out of space, but just because I could), I swtiched to medium. Noticeable, but doing it because I could.

Then, just recently, I realized I could use my S-Video connections throughout the setup and I noticed a dramatic difference. Just great quality PQ on my end. Amazing. Granted I don't have a 61" DLP or anything, but I think its just peachy on my 27" Proscan that I bought about 8 years ago.

When I move into a house, I do plan on giving the whole DirecTV setup a whirl. By that time, most stuff will be in HD, and who knows the kind of deals they will have for new users by then.

Posted by: CraigHB

Well, my TV doesn't have an S-Video input, best I can do is composite. Even on Medium Quality, I think I was still getting less than the 120 hours I get with the DirecTiVo. MQ yielded an even bigger difference in PQ between the SA and the DTiVo. I would have had to use BQ on the SA to get the same PQ I get on the DTiVo and BQ gave me less than 40 hours. I was recording some stuff at MQ, but for me, things like movies mandated HQ.

- Craig

Posted by: lamahX

'Digital' cable 'Digital' Satilite are just buzz words that describe the format the systems use to transfer the signal. For instance, while cable uses Analog still on most lower channels, the supposed 'digital' signal for the upper channels only diff is that they are compressed between the headend and the digital converter, you basically can fit 6 'compressed (digital)' channels in the same amount of bandwidth as 1 analog channel.

So you can see the benifit is there, its just not what it is cracked up to be..

Now, TiVO built into the DirectTv unit is nice, having the dual tuner to both buffer what you are watching and record something else using the TiVO is great. Newer HD Digital Cable Boxes like Motorola's DCT-6200 and Media Center with Moxi Software support this same feature. You'll start seeing a lot of this soon as more and more companies make the transistion to the 2006 HD requirement of them.

Posted by: innocentfreak

Is there anywhere I can go that will let me enter the exact package I want including number of Directivo's and the number of rooms that will be connected so I can get an exact idea of what my monthly cost would be? I keep considering the switch also but I am hesitant since I already have 2 standalone series 2 and it almost seems like I am wasting the money I spent on them to switch, and I don't know how much cheaper it would be compared to my current cable package.

Posted by: schizoid2k

This is a great thread... my cable company announced that we are moving to digital cable over the next couple of months, so I will wait to see what this service offers. If I do not like it, I can then check out DirectTV.

I am understanding the concept of Digital cable and how it is sent to the house.

Question: I am considering upgrading my home to a more modern entertainment system... HDTV, etc. Are there any web sites that explain this in more detail? I do visit the web sites of many manufacturers of HDTV, and they all of course indicate that their hardware is the best.

I am looking for some web sites that I can compare HDTV (both plasma non-plasma). I can then plan this out a bit. I of course would like to buy this stuff only once, so I need to plan future products like an HD Tivo into this picture as well.

thanks,

Posted by: ccwf

Have a look at the sister AVS Forum. It's listed under Forums at the very top of the page.