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Smallville 02/04 - You'd better believe there are spoilers in here.
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Posted by: Bryanmc
:eek:
Posted by: tstowell
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
:eek:
Well said....well said.
It just keeps getting better and better.
Travis
Posted by: sean67854
Could they pack more stuff into a single episode? Holy Crap!!
Somebody's going to have to 'splain some of that stuff to me.
I know what's going on with the dad thing, but what's the deal with Adam?
Posted by: Philosofy
Adam is still a mystery for another day. Now, as for Jonathan: heart attack, or Jor El's revenge?
I loved the cape visual!
And I'm beginning to think Adam just might be Bruce Wayne. He could have "practically" died the night his family was murdered. Or that event caused enought trauma to be confused with a death.
The only problem I had was with Lana, fresh off her broken leg, is now running cross country, and keeping up with everyone else.
Posted by: jwjody
When Adam was having the nightmare was he yelling, "The bats!"?
J
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by sean67854
I know what's going on with the dad thing,
You do?
I've got no idea what's going to happen with him. Apparently it's got something to do with the Jor-El agreement, but other than that it's all new territory. I do predict that Pa Kent won't die, however.
Phil, I'm no Bats expert. Isn't Batman supposed to be 100% normal, as far as being human?
If Adam is taking drugs and that's giving him heightened abilities, doesn't that pollute Batman a bit?
And that cape was awesome. I think I got as excited in that moment as I have any other in this series.
Posted by: TiVaholic
I must have missed the cape thing...when was it?
Posted by: scooterboy
The whole episode was very cool - especially the cape.
And I for one think it indeed was Jor El's revenge.
Posted by: Bryanmc
As for the preview for next week:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I intentionally never saw The Fast and the Furious. Guess I'm going to be forced to next week. That looks awful.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by TiVaholic
I must have missed the cape thing...when was it?
When the kid touched Clark and saw his 'death'.
Posted by: TiVaholic
Oh, I was confused there. It just looked a lot like planets and suns to me....Reasons like this I don't delete these shows as soon as I finish them.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by TiVaholic
Oh, I was confused there. It just looked a lot like planets and suns to me....Reasons like this I don't delete these shows as soon as I finish them.
It ended with that, but the first part of it is a red cape and even the yellow logo on it.
I was giddy.
Posted by: jwjody
Regarding Adam
If you look at the computer screen when Lana leaves Lex the second time there's not too much info regarding Adam.
Status: Confidential
Access: Restricted
He doesn't have a date of birth but his place of birth in the file is Metropolis.
No alias.
J
Posted by: Crrink
Shoot, I was hoping that Adam Knight was some character from the comics that I wasn't familiar with.
Oh well, nothing spoiled for me, I'll just have to wait :)
FWIW I do not think Adam is Bruce Wayne, but the idea of having a Bruce Wayne pass through Smallville for an episode or two would be cool.
Posted by: masdoggydogg
Yeah it was nice that this episode wasn't a whole package, but had parts of several stories. I like when story lines run over into several weeks; in a way, it validates watching every week. Whenever the whole show is self contained, it's kind of a bummer.
Posted by: sean67854
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
You do?
I've got no idea what's going to happen with him. Apparently it's got something to do with the Jor-El agreement, but other than that it's all new territory. I do predict that Pa Kent won't die, however.
Phil, I'm no Bats expert. Isn't Batman supposed to be 100% normal, as far as being human?
If Adam is taking drugs and that's giving him heightened abilities, doesn't that pollute Batman a bit?
And that cape was awesome. I think I got as excited in that moment as I have any other in this series.
Perhaps I should have said that I'm not totally in the dark about the dad thing, as I am about Adam.
Posted by: BrettStah
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
You do?
I've got no idea what's going to happen with him.
Everyone knows what happens next... Mr. Kent dies, Clark is drawn to a glowing green crystal that's buried in the barn, he heads to the North Pole, throws the crystal into the snow, and the Fortress of Solitude gets created. Some more crystals appear, and he spends a few years watching and listening to holograms. Duh! :)
Posted by: meridian
I have to agree that the show keeps getting better. I loved the visualization of Clark's "death" and watched it over a few times. I think I'll put this one on a DVDR.
Posted by: fonamna
I liked the cape scene also.
I thought it was funny when Clark rescued the kid from the fire and said he wasn't breathing, then proceeded to pump his chest. Wouldn't mouth to mouth make more sense? lol. Another thing, the track team looked like they had new sweats, except for the new kid, go figure.
Also I wonder what that kid meant when he said that something bad happened to Adam in Oklahoma. He said he thought Adam died. hmm.
I agree with Bryanmc in regards to Jonathan. He sounded like he was negociating when Clark found him. Not that he wouldn't have done that anyway....
Posted by: jwjody
quote:
Originally posted by fonamna
I agree with Bryanmc in regards to Jonathan. He sounded like he was negociating when Clark foiund him. Not that he wouldn't have done that anyway....
I didn't think he was negotiating. I took that to mean like he knew what was happening and he wasn't ready. I think it is part of the Jor-El agreement also but he knew that this was what the outcome would be and he just wasn't prepared for it to be so soon.
Does anyone put it past WB to make another teen superhero movie? Maybe Adam is Bruce Wayne and they're setting up a Batman show next Fall? Bruce Wayne pre-Batman and it's detective oriented.
J
Posted by: whitson77
quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
I didn't think he was negotiating. I took that to mean like he knew what was happening and he wasn't ready. I think it is part of the Jor-El agreement also but he knew that this was what the outcome would be and he just wasn't prepared for it to be so soon.
Does anyone put it past WB to make another teen superhero movie? Maybe Adam is Bruce Wayne and they're setting up a Batman show next Fall? Bruce Wayne pre-Batman and it's detective oriented.
J
Ding Ding! I think we have a winner. I was thinking this too. I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
I didn't think he was negotiating. I took that to mean like he knew what was happening and he wasn't ready. I think it is part of the Jor-El agreement also but he knew that this was what the outcome would be and he just wasn't prepared for it to be so soon.
Yeah, well this would seem to be the obvious answer.
I thought it was pretty clear about that.
But I'm thinking that he's not going to die. Clark will fix it.
Posted by: lachacg
I thought the sub-plots were good, but the main "Deadzone" storyline was pretty lame to me.
Posted by: ccwf
quote:
Originally posted by fonamna
I thought it was funny when Clark rescued the kid from the fire and said he wasn't breathing, then proceeded to pump his chest. Wouldn't mouth to mouth make more sense?
Maybe if he were an EMT. He's just a kid, after all—you can't always expect him to know the right thing to do. quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
If you look at the computer screen when Lana leaves Lex the second time there's not too much info regarding Adam
Also that he was a patient.
If you look at the computer screen when Clark and Chloe are talking, you can see that either Clark is a very slow reader or else they switched some lines from Clark to Chloe so that Chloe could report some information, too.
Posted by: MitchO
I'm thoroughly convinced that Adam is not Bruce Wayne. Other than the determined face and the air of mystery, i just really don't see why y'all are so insistent on it. There are more than a few things that don't add up, and at best one or two that do.
I was starting to do through the list of possible "dead" characters in the DCU that Adam could represent ... Boston Brand (Deadman) is probably way too far a stretch, and there are only small reasons (at best) for him to represent the Spectre or the Phantom Stranger.
Did freak of the week boy ask Lana if Adam was from Kansas? Oklahoma? I forget off hand, and i found that random inclusion interesting. The only character who has any actual connection with a midwestern state (that i can think of) is Magog of Kingdom Come fame ... his callousness was what caused a nuclear explosion in Kansas, iirc. I know NOTHING about Magog's history however, not having read anything since the inital Kingdom Come series.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
I simply cannot understand why anybody would think for a second that Adam is Bruce Wayne...I see no Batman-like characteristics whatsoever.
Posted by: mp2526
quote:
Originally posted by fonamna
Another thing, the track team looked like they had new sweats, except for the new kid, go figure.
If you listen carefully, you can hear the coach ask the new kid when is he going to join the team, hence the reason he doesn't have new sweats.
Posted by: Redstixxx
Next weeks epsisode just looks terrible.
Posted by: hckylvr88
I honestly don't see how the idea that he is Batman couldn't come up. The thought of Batman possibly using steroids early in his life to gain mass came to mind, but that does go against his character. But then again, we are talking about a younger Bruce Wayne. Lex also said the shots were an experimental drug used to assist in his healing process. Many of mysteries about this person all comes back to money in my opinion. He has money that he is just not acknowledging for whatever reason. He is a bit reckless right now because he is trying to figure out who he is.
The martials arts skills and the almost instant friction between Adam and Clark is kind of interesting. He also is quick to push people away, just Like Batman.
The episode had me tingling at times, especially the cape scene. That was incredible. I also think the "Net Yet" was Johnathan understanding that the deal he made with Jor-El was being cashed in at that moment and he didn't want it to come so soon.
As far as a spin off goes. I suppose it is possible, but the show we know as Smallville was originally going to be different. The original intention was to do a show about a young Bruce Wayne, but the producers opted to do Clark Kent. I would think the spinoff would infringe upon the "intellectual property" of the person or people who originally thought up the Young Bruce Wayne series. Please don't turn this sttement into a debate about intellectual property, etc. It was just a thought. The show producers were adamant about not going in that direction and seem to recall the article I read indicated that the original writer of the young bruce wayne series is pretty bitter.
Posted by: mp2526
quote:
Originally posted by hckylvr88
The show producers were adamant about not going in that direction and seem to recall the article I read indicated that the original writer of the young bruce wayne series is pretty bitter.
I don't think he's Batman, but I did just want to point out that the series is a pretty good success and that combined with money can turn a lot of bitter feelings into a renewed partnership.
Posted by: Graymalkin
I loved the scene with the cape -- but not the fact that it's showing Superman's death. Was that some massive thermonuclear explosion in space?
Posted by: Fleegle
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I simply cannot understand why anybody would think for a second that Adam is Bruce Wayne...I see no Batman-like characteristics whatsoever.
How can you not? His parents died when he was young. He's spending his teenage years traveling around, apparantly learning all kinds of strange things. He's dark and brooding. At his young age, he has apparantly mastered the piano, kickboxing and known enough about computers to hack past some serious security.
Sounds like a young Batman-in-training to me...
Posted by: sieglinde
How close to canon is Justice League? They showed Superman's parents attending his funeral in an episode where everyone thought he had died.
Posted by: jwjody
quote:
Originally posted by lachacg
I thought the sub-plots were good, but the main "Deadzone" storyline was pretty lame to me.
I actually liked that aspect. I thought it was cool that he could see how people would die. I thought that was better and not quite as cliched as just seeing the future.
quote:
Originally posted by Fleegle
How can you not? His parents died when he was young. He's spending his teenage years traveling around, apparantly learning all kinds of strange things. He's dark and brooding. At his young age, he has apparantly mastered the piano, kickboxing and known enough about computers to hack past some serious security.
Sounds like a young Batman-in-training to me...
Exactly what I was thinking.
J
Posted by: KLB
Damn... last 30 seconds pushed this episode into the "Wow... what an episode!" category.
As to what Adam said in his nightmare, can anyone confirm that for sure? I listened to it again and couldn't tell.
"Not yet... " I'd have to agree that if nothing else Jonathan thinks this has been coming whether it's from a medical condition he and Martha have hidden from Clark or he thinks it's connected to his deal with Jor El.
I don't seem to recall how Jonathan's father died, have they ever mentioned when he did die? BUT then again, at the time of the meteor shower the Farm was Jonathan's and he was in his 30's I would guess so that means his father might have been in late 40's early 50's. Kinda young. Then again I've always assumed the Jonathan's mother is dead as well----
As to adam... yeah, I read somewhere that someone suspected him of being Bruce Wayne and have had that in the back of my mind as he showed up more often--- it could easily be him but perhaps it's not. Hoping it's not.
The preview for next week's looks like an OBVIOUS attempt not to hint at or give away the ending of this episode nor what is going to happen to Jonathan in it. I don't see the "Pete Ross destroys more cars" storyline being a major element of it.....
RE: Justice League: I don't know if they consider that canon any more then Smallville but in the episode where Luthor finds out he's been poisoned by the kryptonite he's carried around for years he wakes up and Superman is there and he says:
"Lex, none of that matters."
Calling him by his first name means to me that he knows Luthor moreso then in the comics or the usual DC canon. I took it to be a direct recognition of Smallville and the relationship of Lex and Clark.
Posted by: meridian
Actually the thing that makes the LEAST sense to me about this episode is how Clark does "CPR" on the kid but not for Pa.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by meridian
Actually the thing that makes the LEAST sense to me about this episode is how Clark does "CPR" on the kid but not for Pa.
Nah.
Why didn't he pick him up and run with him to the hospital?
He's freaked out because his dad is dying. I thought it was totally believable for him to be paralyzed there and just calling for help.
As for Clark's parents being alive in the comics and JL, I'll say it again (seems like I say this in every Smallville thread).
There's nothing in the Superman mythos that says Jonathan Kent has to die!
Him dying has been popularized by the movie (and remember, the movie was pre-Byrne) and has no place one way or the other in Superman canon.
In 'Smallville' both parents could die, Pa could die, or Martha could die. Or they could both live. Any of that is permissible within the Superman story.
Recently all incarnations of Superman have both parents alive and well. So I'd say that the exception to the rule is having one of them die. So we'll see what happens.
As for the show, I think Jonathan Kent (and John Schneider) are too important to kill him off.
Posted by: KLB
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
As for Clark's parents being alive in the comics and JL, I'll say it again (seems like I say this in every Smallville thread).
There's nothing in the Superman mythos that says Jonathan Kent has to die!
I'm sorry... could you repeat that???? ;)
I agree about John Schneider 100%, I have always said he was a stroke of casting genius and is very important to the show.
BUT alive and 'alive the way you used to be' are two different things
Posted by: JYoung
quote:
Originally posted by Graymalkin
I loved the scene with the cape -- but not the fact that it's showing Superman's death. Was that some massive thermonuclear explosion in space?
No, I saw that as him flying through the air (with the cape) and then going into space. (and that was a great sequence, I ran it back a couple of times)
Justin said he didn't see an end for Clark like he did with the others, that Clark didn't seem to have one.
Of course, when Superman does finally debut, don't you think that Justin might make a connection here?
Posted by: smak
Well in a theoretical last episode of Smallville, I could see Pa Kent dying.
I know he doesn't have to based on the movie, or any other incarnation of Superman, and we don't know exactly what happened here, but the last few episodes he has had sone pre-cursors to a heart attack...
He doesn't die here, because i'm not too sure they would be doing what they're doing in those scenes from next week if Clark's dad just died.
It's funny, because this is a really good show, but I am extremely curious how they are going to end this, whenever they end it.
I saw the "death" as not a death, and Justin did say that you're the only one that doesn't die.
As for Adam Knight and Bruce Wayne. I don't think he is, but I think the show is having some fun with his name, and his strange martial arts abilities, and his parents deaths.
-smak-
Posted by: Redstixxx
It really boggles the mind that the "heads" at WB wouldn't let this TV show turn into a series of movies. I'd love to see this Clark and this Lex in the movies.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
I actually liked that aspect. I thought it was cool that he could see how people would die. I thought that was better and not quite as cliched as just seeing the future.
I probably would agree, if it hadn't been done SO much better on The X-Files (Clive Bruckman, right down to "How do I die?" "You don't.").
Posted by: smak
quote:
Originally posted by Redstixxx
It really boggles the mind that the "heads" at WB wouldn't let this TV show turn into a series of movies. I'd love to see this Clark and this Lex in the movies.
Agreed, especially with the absolutely ridiculous names that have been bandied about for the leads in the movie.
-smak-
Posted by: jwjody
quote:
Originally posted by smak
It's funny, because this is a really good show, but I am extremely curious how they are going to end this, whenever they end it.
-smak-
I've wondered the same thing. They've played just bits of music of the Superman theme from the movies several times in the show and I keep getting an image for the last scene of the series.
It's not Tom Welling in costume, it's him accepting his future, destiny, whatever you want to call it, and heading off to Metropolis while the full Superman Theme music plays.
J
Posted by: MitchO
RE: The ending.
I know one of the original taglines for the show was "no flights, no tights" but the longer Clark develops, the more likely it is that they'll have to start exploring the flying. They touched on it at the end of season two, iirc?, with the tornado. I'd like to see the ending as the costume shirt going over his head and onto his chest.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by MitchO
RE: The ending.
I know one of the original taglines for the show was "no flights, no tights" but the longer Clark develops, the more likely it is that they'll have to start exploring the flying. They touched on it at the end of season two, iirc?, with the tornado. I'd like to see the ending as the costume shirt going over his head and onto his chest.
If you're going to end the series and show *any* glimpse of the costume, it's got to be ripping the shirt open.
Posted by: BrettStah
I still get bothered (very minor though) by the comic book physics used... when Clark saves the track coach from the middle of the street, he hits him at a higher velocity then that car would have...
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
If you're going to end the series and show *any* glimpse of the costume, it's got to be ripping the shirt open.
I'd be OK with it if Clark ripped too much and we saw his chest. a-la-Janet. It wouldn't even be against FCC regulations. :D
Posted by: mp2526
quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
I still get bothered (very minor though) by the comic book physics used... when Clark saves the track coach from the middle of the street, he hits him at a higher velocity then that car would have...
My take on this is, he can slow down so quickly that he is not travelling at a velocity that could kill the coach at the point that they make contact.
Posted by: MitchO
Yeah, he manages to stop on a dime every other time he's running somewhere, why not a split second before he tackles the coach, then tackles him?
Don't ever expect comic book geeks to not come up with the answer to physics~
Posted by: dswallow
quote:
Originally posted by MitchO
Don't ever expect comic book geeks to not come up with the answer to physics~
Considering Clark's violating the laws of physics to begin with, is this even a point for discussion?
Posted by: mp2526
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Considering Clark's violating the laws of physics to begin with, is this even a point for discussion?
Well, he said "comic book physics" so I took it for what it's worth.
Posted by: JYoung
quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
I still get bothered (very minor though) by the comic book physics used... when Clark saves the track coach from the middle of the street, he hits him at a higher velocity then that car would have...
well, there was one instance in The Flash comic book where Barry Allen broke someone's arm by grabbing them too fast to get them out of harm's way.
Posted by: BrettStah
quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Considering Clark's violating the laws of physics to begin with, is this even a point for discussion?
I'm selectively annoyed! :)
Someone/something with superpowers... no problem. When those superpowers interact/affect normal people and the results aren't "expected", slightly annoying.
Posted by: Graymalkin
Sorry, I didn't hear Jordan tell Clark that he didn't see Clark's death. But that raises the question, why does he see anything? The visions seemed to be confined to moments of death.
Where's Johnny Smith when you need him? :D
Posted by: rhuntington3
Loved the scene with the cape. Excellent!!! Good thing I've got dual tuners.
Posted by: edc
quote:
Originally posted by Graymalkin
Sorry, I didn't hear Jordan tell Clark that he didn't see Clark's death. But that raises the question, why does he see anything? The visions seemed to be confined to moments of death.
Where's Johnny Smith when you need him? :D
The vision is ambiguous enough that it could be Superman's end from Crisis on Infinite Earths.
Posted by: Big_Daddy
Agree with you all. Great episode. The cape flapping-flying into space scene looked great - at least that's what it looked like to me.
The interesting development in the last few episodes is that Clark is developing a fear of using his powers to intervene - by intervening Lana got hurt and Lex still didn't get saved, now he again put Lana in danger by acting. I wonder if we're going to have to have a "Spider-Man moment" where he doesn't act and something bad happens. Or if he'll confess his abilities to Lana and she'll absolve him of his guilt. Hmmm....
Back the Adam-as-Bruce-Wayne thing. I kind of see it. I'd read in a previous thread (here in the forums, different episode) that the creators were barred from introducing Batman due to the Christopher Nolan project, but I don't know for sure.
Here's hoping Pa Kent survives.
Posted by: Graymalkin
Adam Knight is NOT Bruce Wayne.
(Get ready for this....)
He's the son of Michael "Knight Rider" Knight.
:D
Posted by: BrettStah
Just had another physics "error" pop up... in deep space, the cape would not flap at all, right?
(I thought the scene was really cool, though... not annoying at all! :))
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
Just had another physics "error" pop up... in deep space, the cape would not flap at all, right?
(I thought the scene was really cool, though... not annoying at all! :))
Dude.
Haven't you seen Superman IV?
Not only can Superman's cape flap in space but Mariel Hemingway doesn't even have to breathe!
We've got this space thing all wrong!
Posted by: sschwart
Gotta say the cape bit was awesome. I had to back up and watch it a few times.
I'm not so sure about the Pa Kent thing... It seems difficult to let him go from the show, but it definately sounded like part of a bargain type thing. I hope they deal with it next week.
Great episode.
Posted by: ccwf
One of WB's official releases for next week's episode mentions the deal with Jor-El.
Posted by: net114
Ok, can we get some of the people from Smallville over to Enterprise??!?! Sorry, not meaning to hijack the thread...!! lol Although Trek fans are more finicky and this is obvious...if Trek fans were Superman fans, a letter writing campaign would have ensued Season One, with loads of complaints about "canon" and blah blah...
Ok, the cape thing was awesome. Jor El? Haven't seen that promo. I'm not ready for Dad to die and leave the show just yet! Have it be the last episode. I think he is doing a great job removing the Duke boys stigma.
I would love to see the show culminate in Clark becoming a young Superman...maybe in a movie?
Posted by: Philosofy
A recent Wizard (comic fan magazine) interview has Welling saying he has no interest in playing Superman in a movie.
Posted by: net114
quote:
Originally posted by Philosofy
A recent Wizard (comic fan magazine) interview has Welling saying he has no interest in playing Superman in a movie.
Don't rain on my dreams Phil...!! $15 Million or so might change his mind...:D :D :D
Posted by: drew2k
I haven't seen this posted yet, so maybe it's just me. Did anyone else catch Lex' quote about "music hath charms"? I wasn't sure if my ears were playing tricks, so I replayed that line about 10 times, turned on Closed Captioning, and even played through both Dolby digital audio and again through the TV speaker to confirm what I heard. I swear I heard Lex say "music hath charms to soothe the savage breast". It's about 25 minutes into the show. Can anyone confirm this? If it's what he said, well, damn ... this has been quite a week for breasts!
Posted by: mp2526
quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
I haven't seen this posted yet, so maybe it's just me. Did anyone else catch Lex' quote about "music hath charms"? I wasn't sure if my ears were playing tricks, so I replayed that line about 10 times, turned on Closed Captioning, and even played through both Dolby digital audio and again through the TV speaker to confirm what I heard. I swear I heard Lex say "music hath charms to soothe the savage breast". It's about 25 minutes into the show. Can anyone confirm this? If it's what he said, well, damn ... this has been quite a week for breasts!
I thought I heard him say that as well, but dismissed it as me hearing things, but I guess I didn't.
Posted by: MitchO
I was always under the impression that "breast" was the correct quote, not "beast", and that was a popular misnomer.
Oh and there was no particular reason to assume the cape vision was in space ... there was no indication of stars, just bending light.
Posted by: drew2k
I just searched for it and you're correct:quote:
Music has charms to soothe a savage breast
To soften rocks, or bend a knotted oak.
William Congreve (1670 - 1729)
I've always heard it with "beast"! I guess the same is true for the closed captioning editor, as CC also showed the "popular misnomer". Good to know, however, that my hearing hasn't left me.
Posted by: drew2k
About flapping capes in space... If Superman changes direction on any axis, wouldn't it take a moment for his cape to follow the change in direction? I would accept that as an explanation for any apparent flapping of the cape.
Or it's solar wind. Yeah, that's it. :D
Posted by: MitchO
Believe it or not, i think the misnomer (at least partially) started because of Looney Tunes. They used the quote with "Beast" in it more than once, iirc.
Oh and i guess i'm the only one who thought the cape looked too plastic-y, huh.
Posted by: smak
quote:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy
The interesting development in the last few episodes is that Clark is developing a fear of using his powers to intervene - by intervening Lana got hurt and Lex still didn't get saved, now he again put Lana in danger by acting. I wonder if we're going to have to have a "Spider-Man moment" where he doesn't act and something bad happens. Or if he'll confess his abilities to Lana and she'll absolve him of his guilt. Hmmm....
I think Clark has forgotten the other 147 times he saved Lana's life :D
-smak-
ps. And Pete's life, and Chloe's life, and Ma & Pa, Lex, assorted school mates & Townsfolk.
Posted by: mp2526
quote:
Originally posted by MitchO
Oh and i guess i'm the only one who thought the cape looked too plastic-y, huh.
I assumed that was because it was in space :D
Posted by: Drewster
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
There's nothing in the Superman mythos that says Jonathan Kent has to die!
Yes there is! Fifty years of pre-Byrne canon!!
Come on Bryan, you know this. Although Simon & Shuster have Clark growing up in an orphanage (Action #1, page 1), that was later changed such that he was raised by the Kents, who died when he was a young man. The original movie had Pa Kent dying in congruence with the canon of the time. Only the post-Byrne mythos has the Kents alive and well while Kal-El is running around in tights.
[harrumph] Am I the only one who regard the post-Byrne mythos as an abberation? [/harrumph]
Posted by: Peter000
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
If you're going to end the series and show *any* glimpse of the costume, it's got to be ripping the shirt open.
Well, earlier this season we saw him ripping his shirt open, in a phone booth, revealing a symbol fairly close to what's on the Superman uniform. :) Granted it was scarred onto his chest by the essence of Jor-el. But I thought it was an extremely cool nod to the old days.
Posted by: MitchO
quote:
Originally posted by atlauren
Yes there is! Fifty years of pre-Byrne canon!!
Come on Bryan, you know this. Although Simon & Shuster have Clark growing up in an orphanage (Action #1, page 1), that was later changed such that he was raised by the Kents, who died when he was a young man. The original movie had Pa Kent dying in congruence with the canon of the time. Only the post-Byrne mythos has the Kents alive and well while Kal-El is running around in tights.
[harrumph] Am I the only one who regard the post-Byrne mythos as an abberation? [/harrumph]
Yes but there was no real indication of how they died , and how far APART they died. There was always the "with Ma and Pa" straight to "without Ma and Pa". While its safe to assume they didn't both die tragically together (unlike a certain Mr Wayne's parents), it just feels ... weird to think of any extended length of time where Clark only has one parent. I just can't see Jonathan dying without any indication that Martha is soon to follow.
One of the things the Byrne reboot also did was de-age the two of them a bit ... originally, they were pretty old to have a baby age Clark hanging around (iirc, they've always been shown as white haired, for example). So the fact that they are about the same age as the other parents of Smallville High students lends more creadance to us being in that post-Byrne era. I always just figured they died peacefully of old age within a very short time period.
Posted by: Drewster
quote:
Originally posted by MitchO
Yes but there was no real indication of how they died , and how far APART they died. There was always the "with Ma and Pa" straight to "without Ma and Pa".
I have a distinct picture in my head of a young Clark standing before the Kents' tombstones, and a tearful vow to use his abilities for good. I wish I could recall where it was from. The fuzzy memory is associated with a reprint of something Golden Age-ish.
quote:
So the fact that they are about the same age as the other parents of Smallville High students lends more creadance to us being in that post-Byrne era.
Oh, it's clear that Smallville lives in the post-Byrne era. So did Lois & Clark for that matter (Kents alive there too).
Posted by: JYoung
quote:
Originally posted by net114
Ok, can we get some of the people from Smallville over to Enterprise??!?! Sorry, not meaning to hijack the thread...!! lol Although Trek fans are more finicky and this is obvious...if Trek fans were Superman fans, a letter writing campaign would have ensued Season One, with loads of complaints about "canon" and blah blah...
Well, the legend of Superman has tended to have more malleble than Trek.
Plus Smallville treats the source material with respect and tends to be better written than Enterprise.
quote:
Originally posted by MitchO
Yes but there was no real indication of how they died , and how far APART they died. There was always the "with Ma and Pa" straight to "without Ma and Pa". While its safe to assume they didn't both die tragically together (unlike a certain Mr Wayne's parents), it just feels ... weird to think of any extended length of time where Clark only has one parent. I just can't see Jonathan dying without any indication that Martha is soon to follow.
One of the things the Byrne reboot also did was de-age the two of them a bit ... originally, they were pretty old to have a baby age Clark hanging around (iirc, they've always been shown as white haired, for example). So the fact that they are about the same age as the other parents of Smallville High students lends more creadance to us being in that post-Byrne era. I always just figured they died peacefully of old age within a very short time period.
Well, the pre-Crisis Superboy took Ma and Pa back in time to find pirate treasure. Unfortunately, Ma and Pa contracted a disease from the pirate treasure (Clark of course, was immune) and died within hours of each other just shy of Clark's 18th birthday.
Posted by: buffan
quote:
Originally posted by Redstixxx
It really boggles the mind that the "heads" at WB wouldn't let this TV show turn into a series of movies. I'd love to see this Clark and this Lex in the movies.
My $.02...
The ratings on this show aren't high enough to draw an adequate audience, so if there's going to be a big budget movie, the studio is really going to need some better known actors.
I think this group of writers would do a great job on the movie, and Rosenbaum would be excellent as Lex. But Welling and Kreust are not good enough actors to lead a movie. (Then again, neither is Vin Diesel...hmm...)
One other problem: I'm not sure the majority of Americans would want a Superman movie with Lex and Clark as friends. On the other hand, IMO, turning Lex evil would kill a lot of the appeal of what this show has become, thus making a Smallville-based movie less interesting. So it's kind of a Catch-22.
All of that said...I'd love to see the movie; I just think the obstacles are pretty high.
Posted by: edc
quote:
Originally posted by atlauren
Yes there is! Fifty years of pre-Byrne canon!!
[harrumph] Am I the only one who regard the post-Byrne mythos as an abberation? [/harrumph]
Yes ;)
The golden age comics assumed no one cared about continuity, so they had the Kents dying of an unspecified disease before Clark became Superboy, then a few years later, had them dying just after Clark went to Metropolis, and then years after that, yet another explanation, and at yet another time in Clark's life. Even with the minor revamps, at nearly twenty years, Byrne's vision lasted longer than any previous single incarnation.
I've always thought they should reboot every fifteen years or so. Changing the decade that the rocket landed on earth necessitates any number of changes.
Anyway, with regards to Smallville, I could see this being extended out and becoming a plot point (possibly to keep Clark in Smallville for S5), but there is no way they will kill off JK permenantly this season. Jon Schneider is under contract for another couple of seasons, and word would've leaked if he were leaving the show.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by MitchO
I was always under the impression that "breast" was the correct quote, not "beast", and that was a popular misnomer.
This is correct. "Beast" was a bowlderzation by the kind of people who couldn't handle filthy words, and a generation of schoolchildren grew up not knowing the correct phrase...
Posted by: TiVolcano
So what exactly is a savage breast?
Posted by: Big_Daddy
quote:
Originally posted by TiVolcano
So what exactly is a savage breast?
One that has a sun-shaped nipple ring?
Posted by: Fleegle
quote:
Originally posted by TiVolcano
So what exactly is a savage breast?
It's another way of saying a savage heart.
Posted by: Big_Daddy
quote:
Originally posted by Fleegle
It's another way of saying a savage heart.
I actually always pictured it as someone breathing heavily - as if they had exerted themselves. Music helps them calm down.
Posted by: jlb
ok, here's a wacko thought.....
Let's go the biblical route......Adam.....very Biblical name....sort of God like......
Now.....
Doesn't Adam look a ton like a younger version of:
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~brie/gomez/zod.jpg
Posted by: Rcrew
I am so frustrated. I want to read this thread soooooo bad....
Sat down to watch this weeks ep. last night. About 10 minutes into it my GF says... "Wait, I haven't seen last weeks show yet!" So we had to stop so she could watch that, and by the time it was done, it was too late to watch this week.... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Posted by: KLB
The season they turn Lex "evil" will be the last season of the show. You could not carry this show with that kind of major change....
Slipping into that decent into hell is one thing but once Lex cracks, that's it.
I could have sworn I read something where Welling was non-committal about doing a film and it was more like a "they haven't offered it to me or talked to me about it..." sort of thing
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by atlauren
Yes there is! Fifty years of pre-Byrne canon!!
Come on Bryan, you know this. Although Simon & Shuster have Clark growing up in an orphanage (Action #1, page 1), that was later changed such that he was raised by the Kents, who died when he was a young man. The original movie had Pa Kent dying in congruence with the canon of the time. Only the post-Byrne mythos has the Kents alive and well while Kal-El is running around in tights.
[harrumph] Am I the only one who regard the post-Byrne mythos as an abberation? [/harrumph]
Yes, all of that is accurate.
However, my entire point is that is can all be changed.
There are something in the Superman world that aren't allowed to be messed with. The Smallville writers and creators have done a pretty fair job of not messing with the things that shouldn't be changed.
There are elements of Superman that can be altered 'legally' within the story. What happens to the Kents is one of those things. If you go back and read my post I never say the Kents are supposed to live or that Pa can't die. I've said that they both can die, only one could, or they both could live.
My point is that Pa Kent doesn't *have* to die, as some people think he does.
That's all I'm saying. It's got nothing to do with what's happened in the past Superman story lines, because this is one of those things that can be changed in the Superman world without foul.
Posted by: kmccbf
Pa Kent dies of a heart attack in the George Reeves TV Series of the Fifities and Sixties. Smallville seems to be following the old TV program more than any of the comics. In the TV series Clark didn't get his costume until his mother made it for him out of the blankets he was wrapped in from the space ship and he wore it for the first time shortly after his arrival in Metropolis and before he got the job as a reporter for the Planet. He also didn't wear glasses until then either. When he gets on the bus to go from Smallville to Metropolis he is not wearing the glasses and Mrs. Kent reminds him he is supposed to be wearing them just as he is getting ready to leave
As far as the comics physics of Clark saving the track coach, there was an idea put forward once that there was an aura of invonerability around Clark and this was what kept his clothes from burning up. If that is the case it might be temporarly passed on to people who he is rescuing as well.
Posted by: TiVaholic
If he has the invunerability aura, why does he need the suit from the blankets in the spaceship? I though that was because they were indestructable.
Posted by: drew2k
I believe there was an episode of Smallville where Clark was thrown into a blast-furnace, and he walked out naked because all of the clothes had burned off of him. In addition, we've seen many times that bullet holes leave holes in his shirts. I guess this establishes that on Smallville, any aura of invulnerability does not extend to his clothing.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
I believe there was an episode of Smallville where Clark was thrown into a blast-furnace, and he walked out naked because all of the clothes had burned off of him.
You remembered that scene, did you?
;)
In the comics his 'aura of invulnerability' is limited to millimeters to his skin. Which is why his skin tight suit doesn't get destroyed but his cape often does.
Posted by: net114
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
You remembered that scene, did you?
;)
In the comics his 'aura of invulnerability' is limited to millimeters to his skin. Which is why his skin tight suit doesn't get destroyed but his cape often does.
Man, you guys can run rings around me on Supes trivia... I'm going back to reading my Flash comics.
Posted by: drew2k
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
You remembered that scene, did you?
;)
:o
I'm sure I remembered more than that, but that's between me and my TiVo... oh, yeah, and I guess John Ashcroft. :D
Posted by: smak
I think superman's custume is in the same vein as mr. fantastic's costume, or any character who does weird things to their bodies.
In fact, I think in Marvel lore, didn't Reed Richards invent that type of material that all the superhero's use.
-smak-
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by smak
In fact, I think in Marvel lore, didn't Reed Richards invent that type of material that all the superhero's use.
-smak-
Yes, "unstable molecules."
Superman, on the other hand, had a costume (at least in the old days) made by Ma Kent from the blanket he was wrapped in (big blanket, apparently); since it came from Krypton, it was invulnerable, too (which doesn't explain how Ma could cut and sew it...).
Posted by: Philosofy
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Yes, "unstable molecules."
Superman, on the other hand, had a costume (at least in the old days) made by Ma Kent from the blanket he was wrapped in (big blanket, apparently); since it came from Krypton, it was invulnerable, too (which doesn't explain how Ma could cut and sew it...).
She knitted it? So I guess he had a Super Sweater! :)
Posted by: JYoung
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Yes, "unstable molecules."
Superman, on the other hand, had a costume (at least in the old days) made by Ma Kent from the blanket he was wrapped in (big blanket, apparently); since it came from Krypton, it was invulnerable, too (which doesn't explain how Ma could cut and sew it...).
blankets, plural.
Clark was able to cut the material with his heat vision and unravel some of the blankets to use as thread.
Ma used a needle that was part of Kal-El's spaceship.
Let's not forget that the costume was expandable as well....
Posted by: jwjody
quote:
Originally posted by smak
I think superman's custume is in the same vein as mr. fantastic's costume, or any character who does weird things to their bodies.
In fact, I think in Marvel lore, didn't Reed Richards invent that type of material that all the superhero's use.
-smak-
I think it's in the newest Amazing Spider-Man where SM has to protect a tailor. The guy comes up with a new design for Spidey's costume but at the end it doesn't say if he goes with it or not.
It was a cool issue. The tailor had bad guys and good guys come to him for repairs. He was getting so much business and there was the possiblity of run-ins among the good and bad guys, that he had to set up hero's on MWF, and villians on T & TH.
J
Posted by: smak
I think that's a takeoff of the "mob doctor".
The mob tailor. That's funny.
-smak-
Posted by: JYoung
quote:
Originally posted by smak
I think that's a takeoff of the "mob doctor".
The mob tailor. That's funny.
-smak-
Actually, it was done in The Flash, circa #200 or so?.
Barry Allen tracked down the Rogues Gallery through their tailor as they all used the same one.
Posted by: Philosofy
FYI, the costume the tailor designs for Spider Man is the one seen in a glimpse of Spidey's future.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
It was also done in Daredevil 25 years ago--I think Frank Miller came up with Marvel's tailor to the super-crowd. I wonder if it's the same guy that was in Spider-Man (I read Spidey in trade, so I tend to be a few months behind)...
Posted by: Philosofy
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
It was also done in Daredevil 25 years ago--I think Frank Miller came up with Marvel's tailor to the super-crowd. I wonder if it's the same guy that was in Spider-Man (I read Spidey in trade, so I tend to be a few months behind)...
I haven't worked out the math, but is it cheaper to wait for the trade paperbacks? And are you guaranteed of getting every issue in the trade paperback?
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
The traders are generally the same price or clightly cheaper, and you get all the issues (with extremely isolated exceptions, e.g. a fill-in issue of Daredevil by a different team that was out-of-continuity and widely despided was skipped once).
I prefer trades, because they're easier to store, they look better, and generally they read better. (I also may be biased...see www.tplist.com)
Posted by: Bill N
when they had the flash of an old Lana's death scene i had to rewind and slow-mo to see if it was an old Pete at her bedside, but you couldn't tell who it was because his head was down and you could only see his hair.
Posted by: mp2526
quote:
Originally posted by Bill N
when they had the flash of an old Lana's death scene i had to rewind and slow-mo to see if it was an old Pete at her bedside, but you couldn't tell who it was because his head was down and you could only see his hair.
Pretty certain his skin on his hands was white.
Posted by: drew2k
I don't think it matters who was at the elderly Lana's bedside. When Clark saved the coach, he altered Lana's future. She was next to die in the fire, but again Clark intervened.
If Jordan hadn't lost his ability, I would have loved for him to touch Lana again to show us if her original peaceful death was again promised, but now we just don't know. I'd say her future is a blank slate to us again, so anything can happen with Lana and Pete, or Lana with someone else.
Posted by: Philosofy
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
The traders are generally the same price or clightly cheaper, and you get all the issues (with extremely isolated exceptions, e.g. a fill-in issue of Daredevil by a different team that was out-of-continuity and widely despided was skipped once).
I prefer trades, because they're easier to store, they look better, and generally they read better. (I also may be biased...see www.tplist.com)
How many months do the TP's lag? I would consider Ultimate Spiderman, but would hate to go 6 or seven months waiting for the TP's to catch up.
Posted by: Rcrew
Finally I got to watch... and read, and read, and read!
Just about everything that I noticed has been covered. Is this the first time a 'guest' character will be in 3 consecutive episodes?
Just exactly what is the experimental drug? Have anything to do with Kryptonite???
One thing that I was connecting was Martha's conversation with Clark about altering lives, and Clark's response. I was feeling like he was going through a major life event. When that was followed so quickly by Jonathan's ticket being 'collected', it made me think that the deal has a link to Clarks growth. Or possibly that Jonathan wouldn't cause Clark to take one path or another.
Anyone remember what Jonathan said to Clark in the barn when he was dissuading him from getting further involved?
Posted by: ccwf
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
The traders are generally the same price or clightly cheaper, and you get all the issues (with extremely isolated exceptions, e.g. a fill-in issue of Daredevil by a different team that was out-of-continuity and widely despided was skipped once).
Sometimes they can be considerably cheaper. In my experience (which is considerably less than Rob's), they may omit cover art and almost always omit letters to the editor.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by Philosofy
How many months do the TP's lag? I would consider Ultimate Spiderman, but would hate to go 6 or seven months waiting for the TP's to catch up.
Marvel's trades usually come out within about 2-3 months, sometimes even a month, after the last issue collected. They're VERY good about getting them out quickly (they don't overprint, so they don't worry about competing with the singles).
Posted by: etsolow
For the uninitiated, can someone explain these "TP's"?
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
TPs=Trade Paperbacks...books that collect issues of the comic.
Posted by: hookbill
You know what is so cool about this thread? It has like 3 generations of Superman watchers in and, providing explanantions and commentary. I remember when I use to read Superman and Superboy comics when I was a child and people would write the editors and ask them to explain something and they would in a logical manor. This carrys over today not only to this thread but to the show itself.
My wife did not want to watch this show and last year I said hey, I making a season pass. Now she's glued. Great show I wish I would have caught on a few years ago. I love it.
Posted by: Bryanmc
Grab the season one DVDs hookbill.
They're fantastic.
Posted by: ClutchBrake
For all the talk about Adam being Batman was I the only one who thought they saw Spider-Man in Adam's room? When Chloe and Lex are talking there is a stained glass window in the background that looks very similar to a "picture" of Spider-Man.
Not saying I think it meant anything. I wouldn't be surprised if it was put there on purpose though.
Posted by: edc
quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
Just exactly what is the experimental drug? Have anything to do with Kryptonite???
The spoilers indicate:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
The drug includes "platelets of an unknown origin," most likely Clark's.
That may explain some of the things we've seen in Adam, but it still doesn't explain a boatload of others. The bit Lex discovered about Adam's teachers giving him straight A's, and all describing him with the same words is intriguing. Shades of SNL: "I loved it! It was much better than 'Cats.' I'm going to see it again and again."
Posted by: TonyD79
The thing about the teachers made me think that they were paid off to create Adam as a person.
I am still rooting for him to be Batman and that he is struggling with a problem (no, not drugs or steroids but something he has to solve to be himself.
The comics were always full of a hero looking unheroic because he has to overcome some disease or some influence on him. That would be the right way to go.
But he is a prodigy of some type, which would fit Batman perfectly.
The rest of the episode was great. I liked the Death Zone thing. (And not being a fan of the X Files, I don't care how they did it there). I figure that Lana's death is back to normal because the coach is dead (and hence what Clark did is undone). And, no, it was not Pete who was with her, but who says that the man was her husband?
The cape was wonderful. It gave me chills.
And, of course, Jonathon survives. Setting up a showdown with JorEl for the finale (with Christopher Reeves showing up).
I am all for Tom Welling doing Superman movies after the series is ended. He is growing into the part very, very well.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
The rest of the episode was great. I liked the Death Zone thing. (And not being a fan of the X Files, I don't care how they did it there).
You should do a Wishlist for Clive Bruckman--it was one of the great episodes of sci-fi-ish television, and it's pretty stand-alone.
Posted by: jeff125va
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
You should do a Wishlist for Clive Bruckman--it was one of the great episodes of sci-fi-ish television, and it's pretty stand-alone.
I wasn't going to nitpick your spelling, but since the wishlist might not catch it, it's actually Clyde Bruckman (the full episode title is Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose.) But yeah, definitely a great episode. On Season 3 Disc 1 if you want to rent the DVDs.
Posted by: IndyJones1023
I just watched this episode this morning (that's what Tivo's are for, you people!). I got thru about half of this thread and just had to chime in with the cape=cool and the shocker of an ending. I didn't recall the deal with Jor El, I just thought it was referencing the heart attack from the movie. But I don't think he'll die. This would be a minor heart attack with overtones of what we know will come in the future.
BTW, did I ever mention my brothers went to high school with Tom Welling?
Posted by: IndyJones1023
Also, what's up with Pete's hair? It looks like it *really* covers up his forehead on each side with an upsidedown U shape for his forehead.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by IndyJones1023
Also, what's up with Pete's hair? It looks like it *really* covers up his forehead on each side with an upsidedown U shape for his forehead.
Yep, that's bugged me since the beginning.
Posted by: kettledrum
quote:
Originally posted by IndyJones1023
I just watched this episode this morning (that's what TiVo's are for, you people!).
You know, I have thought the same thing before. I guess it all depends on how much you like a particular show and how badly you want to watch it as soon as it's available. I am like that with several shows.
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