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Airline 2/9
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Posted by: aaronw

Comments:

LAX ramp pushback: Man, that must be a sucky gate if they're that worried about banging aircraft on the pushback.

Prince of Ghana: How'd all those guys get past security?

Lady whose luggage was 'lost' at the airport carousel: Well, I'm happy you found it in the end.

Old couple needing O2. Is that a SWA policy about the O2 or a general airline policy?

No drunk people this time, I guess that's good for a change.

Posted by: IJustLikeTivo

Snore. Prince of Ghana, who gives a damn. Not like it means anything.

Stupid woman who doesn't know what her luggage looks like should be bared from flying since she is clearly too stupid to be allowed out without a keeper.

O2, hard to imagine why. I can't find anything on the Southwest site one way or the other. I checked United. They will transport yours but not allow you to use it. I assume for liability reasons. But.....

They will arrange for oxygen at a nominal fee if you need it and give them 48 hours notice prior to the flight.

Posted by: FatherTed

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
O2, hard to imagine why. I can't find anything on the Southwest site one way or the other. I checked United. They will transport yours but not allow you to use it. I assume for liability reasons. But.....

Wow, you must not handle technology well. :D Go to the Southwest Airlines website and put Oxygen into the search box and press search:

quote:

Oxygen
Southwest Airlines does not transport Customers who knowingly require oxygen during their flight. A limited emergency supply of oxygen is carried onboard the aircraft and can be administered by the Flight Attendants only during medical emergencies. Passengers requiring emergency oxygen will not be permitted to continue travel until Southwest Airlines' medical advisor has certified their ability to travel without further oxygen use.

Personal Oxygen Supply: Federal hazardous material and Federal Aviation Regulations do not allow Customers to carry their own personal oxygen supplies onboard an aircraft. If medical oxygen is needed at destination, Customers may transport an empty oxygen cylinder in checked or carryon baggage. The cylinder must be empty, the gauge must indicate zero pressure and the valve must be transported in the open position. Liquid oxygen systems must also be empty and meet the same procedures in order to be transported.

Security Checkpoint: Customers may bring medical oxygen through the security checkpoint and will be allowed to transport the oxygen cylinder onboard provided that it is verified empty prior to departure.

Oxygen Concentrators: We allow Customers to bring oxygen concentrators onboard if they are equipped with nonspillable batteries and the unit is protected from short circuit. Presently, oxygen concentrators cannot be used during flight due to Federal Aviation Regulations.

Ventilators: We will allow ventilators to be carried onboard and used inflight only if the battery is nonspillable and the unit is protected from short circuit.

Nebulizers: We will allow nebulizers to be carried onboard, but if they are battery-operated, they must have a nonspillable battery, and the unit must be protected from short circuit.

You must be related to the people who didn't realize they needed to bring proof of birth for their children. :D

Posted by: GameGuru

Woman: He is only 12 months old!!!
Airline: Ah, he has a mustashe and is 6'2" ma'am.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by aaronw

Prince of Ghana: How'd all those guys get past security?

I guess exceptions CAN be made. The black lady from the earlier show that wanted to take her entire family back to send someone off (or pick someone up, I forget), might be a little miffed, except that blows her whole theory that "the man" won't make the exception for black people.

Posted by: kdonnel

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
O2, hard to imagine why.

The hundred or so people who died in the Valujet crash are one reason. While it was not a regular oxygen cylinder the crash shows how dangerous pure oxygen can be.

Posted by: jsmeeker

quote:
Originally posted by kdonnel
The hundred or so people who died in the Valujet crash are one reason. While it was not a regular oxygen cylinder the crash shows how dangerous pure oxygen can be.

NO!!! NO!!! Not related in ANY way.

Airplanes do not carry tanks of oxygen for emergency O2 for passenger use at their seats. They use generators. A chemical reaction in the generator creates oxygen as part of the reaction.

Also, there *are* tanks of compressed O2 on board.. As somone pointed out, there is a tank(s) for emergency medical use.. The tank can also be used by cabin crew so they can have O2 and move about a cabin that has depressurized and is still at an altitude where supplemental O2 is needed. Also, the cockpit has emergency/supplemental O2 masks.. These work off of a tank. There are times when cabin crew is required to be on O2 even when the cabin is properly pressurized.

Clearly, there is no problem with carrying canisters of O2 on an airplane... The issue is *whose* canisters and what kind of canisters. has that passengers canister been inspected? Is that canister safe at cabin altituteds, or higher? The airline controls theirs, but can't control a passengers. The seconf issue is a pure medical one. People that require continuous O2 tyically aren't in the best of health. Putting that person on a plane can't risk their health and life.

Posted by: steuert

The first few episodes of this series were pretty interesting IMO; however they seem to have run out of newsworthy material. Now they are reduced to filming retirement parties for their pilots or silly dancing receptions for Ghana-bound passengers, or episode No. 1,000 of passenger tantrums at the lost-luggage desk.

"Airport" (a similar program set in London's Heathrow) was about 10X better, but they haven't had many new episodes lately.

Posted by: Frylock

I am watching this episode now and it is BAD. Why is this a story about him pushing back from the gate? How is that interesting?

And you don't know your bag is brown and not green? And when you see it you don't know it is your own bag? And this is after threatening the airline with you not flying them again. Good riddens lady!

Posted by: jsmeeker

quote:
Originally posted by Frylock
I am watching this episode now and it is BAD. Why is this a story about him pushing back from the gate? How is that interesting?

I was actually happy to see a segment dealing with actual operations as opposed to yet anohter drunk passenger. What's interesting about that push is how tircky it is

This show is mostly about interactions between Southwest Customers and passengers (usually "problem" passengers). IMHO, that can get a bit boring if that's all there is.. Note all the comparisons to the "Airport" series.

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by jsmeeker
I was actually happy to see a segment dealing with actual operations as opposed to yet anohter drunk passenger. What's interesting about that push is how tircky it is

I vote for more drunks

Posted by: IJustLikeTivo

quote:
Originally posted by FatherTed
Wow, you must not handle technology well. :D Go to the Southwest Airlines website and put Oxygen into the search box and press search:

You must be related to the people who didn't realize they needed to bring proof of birth for their children. :D

OK smart guy. I did exactly what you said. That is why I was surprised that it gave me nothing. Grumpy are we?

Oddly, I figured out that if you change from the home page to the travel page, it works. I have no idea why?

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by daperlman
I vote for more drunks

Drunk people = good tv

Posted by: IJustLikeTivo

quote:
Originally posted by jsmeeker
Clearly, there is no problem with carrying canisters of O2 on an airplane... The issue is *whose* canisters and what kind of canisters. has that passengers canister been inspected? Is that canister safe at cabin altituteds, or higher? The airline controls theirs, but can't control a passengers. The seconf issue is a pure medical one. People that require continuous O2 tyically aren't in the best of health. Putting that person on a plane can't risk their health and life.

Of course, the stupid part is that the differential at cabin altitude (around 6000 feet give or take) Vs ground is trivial compared to the normal pressure differential. Standard medical O2 tanks are commonly filled to 2000 PSI or more. Given the differential of 2000- 14.7 at ground, the additional differential at 6000 feet is utterly inconsequential. Basically, if the tanks doesn't blow on the ground, adding 6000 ft of reduced partial pressure won't make any serious difference.

Posted by: TonyD79

I vote for longer segments on things like the blackout. Or more on moving that many people around.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
I vote for longer segments on things like the blackout. Or more on moving that many people around.

How about that but doing it while drunk :D

Posted by: JFriday

I want more obnoxious parents with obnoxious kids.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by JFriday
I want more obnoxious parents with obnoxious kids.

Drunk obnoxious parents with drunk obnoxious kids? OK, I'll stop.

Posted by: Worf

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
Of course, the stupid part is that the differential at cabin altitude (around 6000 feet give or take) Vs ground is trivial compared to the normal pressure differential. Standard medical O2 tanks are commonly filled to 2000 PSI or more. Given the differential of 2000- 14.7 at ground, the additional differential at 6000 feet is utterly inconsequential. Basically, if the tanks doesn't blow on the ground, adding 6000 ft of reduced partial pressure won't make any serious difference.

It's more than just that. Being a student pilot myself, I'm amazed at all sorts of hoops one has to jump through. A screw that falls out must be replaced by the proper screw - what may cost $0.10 at a hardware store wouldn't cut it, but a similar screw (costing $10) would be required (and documented). Mostly because of all the paperwork attached to said screw. Similar, other staples tend to have similar requirements (light bulbs, flashlights, etc).

I'm certain that there are way more regulations tied up for "aviation certified" oxygen bottles over regular oxygen bottles. They may be for the most part identical, but the aviation certified one would have passed way more tests to ensure stability in varying conditions, as well as undergo much more stringent inspection. And all documented as well - any servicing done on it must be noted down (serial numbers, reason for change, etc). Quite tedious. (Heck, if a piece of metal fatigues on a plane, they can trace it back almost to the mine that dug it up, and from there figure out who else might have a similarly-affected piece of metal that would need to be inspected).

All this, of course, costs extra money. Lots of it. Medical equipment is expensive already - to add the cost of making it aviation certifiable would make it prohibitive to a large population.

Posted by: FatherTed

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
OK smart guy. I did exactly what you said. That is why I was surprised that it gave me nothing. Grumpy are we?

Oddly, I figured out that if you change from the home page to the travel page, it works. I have no idea why?

Worked from the home page for me.

Posted by: IJustLikeTivo

quote:
Originally posted by Worf
It's more than just that. Being a student pilot myself, I'm amazed at all sorts of hoops one has to jump through. A screw that falls out must be replaced by the proper screw - what may cost $0.10 at a hardware store wouldn't cut it, but a similar screw (costing $10) would be required (and documented). Mostly because of all the paperwork attached to said screw. Similar, other staples tend to have similar requirements (light bulbs, flashlights, etc).

There is something more to it than that. The parts are certified to meet specific tolerances and behave in ways that other parts don't need to worry about. Remember the parts go from over 100 on the ground to -60 F at 40000 feet.

quote:
Originally posted by Worf

I'm certain that there are way more regulations tied up for "aviation certified" oxygen bottles over regular oxygen bottles. They may be for the most part identical, but the aviation certified one would have passed way more tests to ensure stability in varying conditions, as well as undergo much more stringent inspection. And all documented as well - any servicing done on it must be noted down (serial numbers, reason for change, etc). Quite tedious. (Heck, if a piece of metal fatigues on a plane, they can trace it back almost to the mine that dug it up, and from there figure out who else might have a similarly-affected piece of metal that would need to be inspected).

Well, you can start a whole religious argument on the topic of things like Aviation O2 for private planes but the real truth is that it comes from the same plants that make Medical O2 and welding O2. The only thing different is the tanks labels. As a practical matter a Scuba tanks hold more pressure than medical O2 and they are carried in planes all the time.

quote:
Originally posted by Worf

All this, of course, costs extra money. Lots of it. Medical equipment is expensive already - to add the cost of making it aviation certifiable would make it prohibitive to a large population.

See comment above.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
As a practical matter a Scuba tanks hold more pressure than medical O2 and they are carried in planes all the time.

Scuba tanks don't carry pure oxygen though. Granted if a pressurized scuba tank exploded it could create some damage, but it's not flammable like a an O2 tank. And I'm fairly sure they won't let you take a pressurized scuba tank on a plane, the valve has to be open.

Posted by: jsmeeker

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
Well, you can start a whole religious argument on the topic of things like Aviation O2 for private planes but the real truth is that it comes from the same plants that make Medical O2 and welding O2. The only thing different is the tanks labels. As a practical matter a Scuba tanks hold more pressure than medical O2 and they are carried in planes all the time.

I think he is talking about the tanks themselves, and not the O2 that goes in it.

Anyway, I it would not surprise me if the valves and regulators on a medical O2 tank were different than a portable "avitaion" O2 tank.. But then again, naybe they are the same, or maybe some medical tanks are jsut like the aviation ones... I don't really know.. Southwest may not really know, or they simply don't want to have their employees trying to figure out which are OK and which my not be OK.

If I'm not mistaken, airlines usually like scuba tanks to be emptied out for transport.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by jsmeeker
I think he is talking about the tanks themselves, and not the O2 that goes in it.

I understand that, but he made mention that scuba tanks go on planes, and it's my understanding that having an empty tank is not the issue here. It's about tanks carrying O2. My take is that the airline just would rather that it have control over any flammable oxygen that happens to be on the plane.

Posted by: IJustLikeTivo

Ultimately, they do it for liability reasons of course, but from my point was that from a safety perspective, there really is not much risk. This is just their way of handling the tiny amount there is. Actually, there are lots of other things allowed in the non-pressurized part of the plane that are a bigger risk like aerosols which do get by from time to time. And of course, no matter how well you pack it, the shampoo always manages to leak in the luggage which is why it is in a zip lock bag... <vbg>

Posted by: jsmeeker

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
Ultimately, they do it for liability reasons of course, but from my point was that from a safety perspective, there really is not much risk.

Indeed.. Why take the risk with equipment you aren't totally familair with,,, And as I pointed out in my initial post about this, there is the medical risk itself. Even if any and every O2 canister was 100% safe, they still may not want to deal with PAX on O2 for medical risk issues.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
Actually, there are lots of other things allowed in the non-pressurized part of the plane that are a bigger risk like aerosols which do get by from time to time.

Very true.

Posted by: mrboo

I really like Airline. Good show. I love the way the VO guy makes every scenario seem so sweet. "...Randy is responding to a call at gate 3b where a passenger has just defecated himself." I want to know how they get all of those beauty shots where the camera is mounted to some kind of crane and sweeps over the passengers or over the baggage handlers. Seems like a complicated setup that would take forever. I agree the drunks are the best. Also, I've traveled out of Southwest's terminal 1 at LAX many times. For the most part it's a bus terminal--no wonder people drink there.

Posted by: mp2526

quote:
Originally posted by mrboo
I want to know how they get all of those beauty shots where the camera is mounted to some kind of crane and sweeps over the passengers or over the baggage handlers. Seems like a complicated setup that would take forever.

Depends on how smooth they want the shot, if its over head or at eye level, and a few other details. It can be a simple shot or very complicated. I bet a lot of the scenes were they do this are after the fact at not during the actual story they are telling, and then later edited in.

Posted by: mrboo

quote:
Originally posted by mp2526
Depends on how smooth they want the shot, if its over head or at eye level, and a few other details. It can be a simple shot or very complicated. I bet a lot of the scenes were they do this are after the fact at not during the actual story they are telling, and then later edited in.

Yeah, I figured that much out. And I know those louma-type cranes are smaller than in the past, I meant the hassle of setups and blocking the flow of people, setting up while planes are taxiing in, and avoiding the glances up into the lens by folks.

Posted by: Worf

quote:
Originally posted by mp2526
I understand that, but he made mention that scuba tanks go on planes, and it's my understanding that having an empty tank is not the issue here. It's about tanks carrying O2. My take is that the airline just would rather that it have control over any flammable oxygen that happens to be on the plane.

Actually, the tanks themselves are probably the concern. You see, an empty tank (scuba, medical, whatever) poses little threat other than being hurt if it falls on you. However, a pressurized tank can behave very differently. In a fire, it may explode from overpressure, or when crushed release the gas suddenly in a dangerous manner. Or maybe the regulator can give.

I'm sure there are regulations covering the aircraft oxygen systems and what they must endure in accidents and in flight to prevent sudden release of oxygen while engulfed in flames, crushed, shocked, or whatever else can happen. It's unlikely that the medical oxygen bottles won't pass the tests, but they haven't been tested (or maintained in a strict tracable fashion).

As for small aircraft vs. larger aircraft, I'm certain it's stricter for commercial airliners since a mistake costs more lives in a Boeing 7x7 than a Cessna 172.