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Angel "1943" 2/11/04 Spoilers!
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Posted by: Graymalkin

Forget this week's episode. Did you see the teaser for next week? It's either going to be one of the LOL funniest Angel eps of all time -- or the most moronic. :D

Posted by: Drayskull

AARRGGHH!!

Apparently I won't be watching it. About a third of the way through the episode I got DirecTV's version of the blue screen of death: "We are experiencing problems from the program source. We apologize for the interruption in service." (Local channel 33 WTVZ from Norfolk, VA)

Posted by: Graymalkin

BitTorrent is your friend. Not that I've ever used it, but I've heard it comes in handy.

Posted by: LoadStar

Yet another "themed" WB series episode... but this one was better than I thought it was going to be. (And most definitely better than the themed Charmed episodes. Ugh.)

I wonder what set they used for this episode. I don't know if 20th Century Fox has a submarine set, or if they had to go to Paramount or Universal like they sometimes do (for example, whenever they have a flashback to London). Looked pretty good though. A bit dark, but that seems to be an ongoing problem with "Angel."

Spike looked funky - but good - in the short-cropped black hair. Very weird though seeing him in anything but the Billy Idol look. (I know this wasn't supposed to be, but I almost thought he looked younger in the flashbacks... I know, I know, vamps don't age, but the makeup and stuff still seemed to make him younger. Probably the hair, I bet.)

I guess I missed one thing: was the mission to bring back just the sub, or bring back the sub and the cargo (i.e. the demons on board)? If it was just the sub, why didn't Angel just stake the vamps and get it done with? And if it was to bring back the cargo - he sure didn't do a very good job of it.

I noticed Spike got the pronunciation of Angelus right in this episode. (If you recall the first time Spike and Angel appeared on screen together, Spike mispronounced Angelus, pronouncing it AN-jell-us instead of the proper an-JELL-us.) I know, it was something ME decided after that first meeting, that it would be the latter pronunciation instead of the former, but I still thought I'd point it out. :)

Well... next weeks could be absolutely hysterical, or absolutely horrifying. I'm afraid to find out which.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Actually, the correct pronunciation WOULD be AN-jell-us...

An-JELL-us would be spelled Angellus.[/Latin geek]

Posted by: LoadStar

Heh - then again, which is the correct spelling? Since AnJELLus is the correct pronunciation, as per ME, is it supposed to be spelled Angellus? Or are we thinking far too much about this? :)

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Angelus=Angel. Angellus=little angle.

They got the spelling right, the pronunciation wrong.

(Actually, that's the Medieval or Church Latin pronunciation; in classical Latin, where the word doesn't actually appear, it would be AN-gell-us. But by the time the word started appearing in Late Antiquity, the shift had probably already happened from a hard to a soft g-sound.)

And yes, we are (or more properly, I am) thinking too much about this. :D

Posted by: Lori

I always thought that Spike pronounced it wrong on purpose, as a sign of disrespect.

Posted by: Peter000

I liked this episode a whole lot more than I thought I would. I thought the cargo vamps were hilarious, especially the "Prince of Lies." And I'm a sucker for the flashback stuff. Angel has a hundred years of stories we haven't seen yet (a hundred with a soul... more even before he got it back)

Is Gunn going to lose his smarts? Seems they were hinting at it with him stumbling over a piece of info early in the show.

Next week's ep looks hilarious. If Joss n' Company have proved anything, they can do funny pretty well; unlike say the "Trek" franchise where it always seems forced.

Posted by: Kylep

LOL at the pure glee on Spike's face as he wrestled with "Angel" in the preview.

Posted by: Sirius Black

This episode definitely isn't as bad as the themed episodes of Charmed. Joss and Co. do do humor well but only certain writers on his staff are best at it, Jane Espenson is the name that comes to mind. I don't think she works on the Angel staff.

Ok, is it me or wasn't Angel a mess up to the point where Whistler (the short guy from the season 2 finale of Buffy (Becoming parts 1 and 2) takes him to LA and shows him Buffy? Also, I thought during the first season of Angel they established that Angel only fed on a human one time since 1920 something. I think that lieutenant would take issue with his recounting of events. Of course, him feeding on Buffy counts as "current" events and therefore don't count.

Posted by: LoadStar

quote:
Originally posted by Sirius Black
Ok, is it me or wasn't Angel a mess up to the point where Whistler (the short guy from the season 2 finale of Buffy (Becoming parts 1 and 2) takes him to LA and shows him Buffy? Also, I thought during the first season of Angel they established that Angel only fed on a human one time since 1920 something. I think that lieutenant would take issue with his recounting of events. Of course, him feeding on Buffy counts as "current" events and therefore don't count.

You're absolutely right about Angel being a mess, and I can't believe I didn't pick up on this.

Then again, it was more than 50 years later when Whistler ran into Angel... it's entirely possible that Angel went seriously downhill in those 50 years, and that's when Whistler was sent by the Powers that Be to get him back into line and set him up as the champion.

I'm not sure about the feeding on humans 1 time though... that may have been said, I just don't recall it myself.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Lieutenant Vampire did say that Angel became a mess between WWII and the present, when he was checking in on him "every decade or so"...and I don't recall in the past their saying that he was a mess during the entire time he had a soul, although it was implied. I suppose they now have some explaining to do as to WHY he was a mess, if it wasn't the guilt from getting his soul back...

Posted by: allan

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Lieutenant Vampire did say that Angel became a mess between WWII and the present, when he was checking in on him "every decade or so"...and I don't recall in the past their saying that he was a mess during the entire time he had a soul, although it was implied. I suppose they now have some explaining to do as to WHY he was a mess, if it wasn't the guilt from getting his soul back...

My guess is that it started when he regained his soul. He seemed like he had it together in WW2 but he might have been worse than he seemed at the time, and I'm sure his guilt over LT. Vamp didn't help. And there may have been other untold tales that explained why he was in much worse shape pre-Buffy than in WW2.

Posted by: LoadStar

Well... there was the scene in the bar in the 70s where Angel fed off the bartender who got shot... that seemed to escalate the downward spiral. After that point, Angel moved away from humans to avoid the temptation of feeding from anyone else... hence the living in a back alley feeding from rats.

Posted by: UnionBuster

quote:
I thought the cargo vamps were hilarious, especially the "Prince of Lies."

Hehe, good, it wasn't just me.

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by Sirius Black
This episode definitely isn't as bad as the themed episodes of Charmed. Joss and Co. do do humor well but only certain writers on his staff are best at it, Jane Espenson is the name that comes to mind. I don't think she works on the Angel staff.

(Cough)Ben "the Tick" Edlund (Cough)

Posted by: Sirius Black

quote:
Originally posted by LoadStar
Well... there was the scene in the bar in the 70s where Angel fed off the bartender who got shot... that seemed to escalate the downward spiral. After that point, Angel moved away from humans to avoid the temptation of feeding from anyone else... hence the living in a back alley feeding from rats.

Ok, I thought it was the 20s when he fed off that guy but now that I think about it, you're right. I guess the WWII story doesn't rewrite anything too badly. Oh, I remember more now. It wasn't Season 1, it was last season when Faith had to fight Angelus in a dream and both Angel and Angelus were there.

Posted by: KnightShade

quote:
Originally posted by Sirius Black
Ok, is it me or wasn't Angel a mess up to the point where Whistler (the short guy from the season 2 finale of Buffy (Becoming parts 1 and 2) takes him to LA and shows him Buffy? Also, I thought during the first season of Angel they established that Angel only fed on a human one time since 1920 something. I think that lieutenant would take issue with his recounting of events. Of course, him feeding on Buffy counts as "current" events and therefore don't count.

After all of the flashbacks, the Lt. asked Angel how he got off of the sub without getting nabbed by the government, and Angel mentioned that he snuck off and then "went to ground". I assume that this was meant to imply the start of his living off of the street days.

Posted by: Sirius Black

I think "went to ground" is a nautical term but in this case, I think you are more correct.

Posted by: Freki

I thought the "went to ground" comment meant that he was hiding out from the proto-Initiative government guys that sent him on the mission in the first place.

The episode where the gang moved into the Hyperion Hotel at the beginning of season 2 showed Angel living there in the 50's, in pretty much the same withdrawn state they showed him in during this episode, so this isn't the first time that we've seen that Angel didn't spend his entire souled existence on the streets pre-Buffy.

Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Angellus=little angle.

Was that a typo?

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
Was that a typo?

Nope. An angle. As in acute. Only small.

Little Angel would be Angelellus. (An-jell-LELL-us)

Posted by: ccwf

Very interesting! Thanks for the Latin info. :cool:

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
Very interesting! Thanks for the Latin info. :cool:

No problem. Four years of college Latin, three years of grad school Latin, I only had two choices. The priesthood, or correcting people's Latin on the internet.

And I'm no priest...

Posted by: LoadStar

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
No problem. Four years of college Latin, three years of grad school Latin, I only had two choices. The priesthood, or correcting people's Latin on the internet.

And I'm no priest...

Botany or biology are also options...

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by LoadStar
Botany or biology are also options...

Well, there's also medieval history (that being the whole point of the exercise in the first place), but sometimes things don't work out quite the way we intend...

Posted by: TiVaholic

You guys really need lives.

;)

Looking forward to Wednesday's episode.

Posted by: Mike20878

I was a little disappointed with this episode. There didn't seem to be much of a point to it. It just seemed kind of empty at the end. Kinda like this was just another flashback episode for no other reason than to explore an unknown time in Angel's past. Yes, it was interesting that he turned the guy to save the mission.