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Stargate SG-1 2/20 - spoilers
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Posted by: Jonathan_S

No, not Janet. Why did Dr. Frasier have to be the one to die?

Amusing note, the description on Daniel's tape shows that the mission was to P3X 666.

Anyway, other thoughts about the episode?

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Althought I basically liked the episode, one thing that I HATED was the VERY cheap stunt of pretending it was going to be O'Neill. That was beneath them...Frazer's death would have had enough impact on its own without the cheap theatrics.

Posted by: kdmorse

Frazer's death would have had enough impact on its own without the cheap theatrics.

Especially if you happened to know it was Janet that died from the very beginning. That made the endless misdirection seem even cheaper.

And how obvious was it that they made a big deal about their new ceramic armor inserts right before we see O'Neill get hit right where they slide in.

Grrrr.... I'm gonna miss her...

-Ken

Posted by: drew2k

Yeah - I didn't care for this conclusion of the two-parter. I thought it was kind of insulting to Teryll Rothery that after 6+ years they couldn't give her just a bit more to do for her own freakin' death episode!

To me, the impact of it all was minimized by by focusing so heavily on the documentarian, and not on the core group of characters. O'Neill was unconscious, Tealc was MIA while he looked up the names of all of the doc's patients, and only Carter really got to show some emotion over it. Sure, Daniel crouched in the corner to show his loss, but I wanted more. Uugh.

Posted by: RGM1138

Man, I did not see that one coming. Although, I guess I would have if I'd been paying closer attention.

We know that RDA wasn't gonna die. He's the above-the-title star, for Pete's sake. Plus, Janet never went through the gate before, IIRC. And, certainly not in a combat situation.

I really liked her character, (and the actress). She gave great bedside manner. :) It's a shame she won't be around any longer.

The tribute to the troops was a nice touch, I thought.

Bob

Posted by: Coladar

I'd known about Janet's death since last summer, so perhaps my expectations were too high. But I thought it was a horrible way to send off someone who's been with the show since season 1.

I simply don't buy that, after how many years, they decide to send the head of the SG medical staff into a very deadly active combat situation. She might have gone off-world a couple of times (The shows been on what? Seven years? It all blends together after a while.) but they never showed the character as being involved in providing medical support during active combat zones off-world. It's bad enough Teryl Rothery hardly appeared in the episode, but don't kill her off in such a incongruous fashion.

And I, for one, am extremely disappointed they dropped the ball with Cassandra. She, first and foremost, should have been front and center during the memorial. They didn't have to get the same actress, just get someone to show they remembered the character. Excluding that, for no one to even mention her or what would happen to her with Janet's death? She'd be either 17 or 18, so losing Fraiser is going to have serious repercussions in her life.

Posted by: JPriller

I was pretty bummed that Casandra only got mentioned and not shown - she should have spoken along with Carter at the memorial - geez, it's not like she doesn't know about the Stargate.

Dr. Frasier has been offworld before, generally when they're fighting some local plague or something, but I've never seen her sent to a combat zone. It seemed a little odd, but she is (was) an Air Force Captain and you gotta go where they tell you.

I haven't made the rounds of the various fan sites, does anyone know why they killed off Frasier? Actress wanted to move on, contract dispute, just the need to kill off a somewhat major character?

Posted by: jones07

One of the most spectacular battle scenes I have seen in a SG-1. A lot of CG which was incorporated nicely. And I seen every eps going back to the "better" Showtime days. This will be one of the top Remembered episodes in the 7 years of this serials.

Well done :up:

Posted by: RGM1138

quote:
Originally posted by JPriller Dr. Frasier has been offworld before, generally when they're fighting some local plague or something, but I've never seen her sent to a combat zone. It seemed a little odd, but she is (was) an Air Force Captain and you gotta go where they tell you.

True. But, you wouldn't normally send the CMO, the Bones McCoy, if you will, into a hot LZ. That's usually reserved for a corpsman, or EMT etc. The idea is to stabilize the patient, then transport back to base, Which is where Janet should have been, with all the the high tech, life-saving equipment at her disposal. In other words, in the rear with the gear.

quote:

I haven't made the rounds of the various fan sites, does anyone know why they killed off Frasier? Actress wanted to move on, contract dispute, just the need to kill off a somewhat major character?

Maybe she'll come back as a guest star. Perhaps as a System Lord. Or a Romulan. :)

Bob

Posted by: landrumdh

WTF

I mean ok you needed to write Janet out for some reason, but atleast give her character justice in doing it! You made us think it was O'neil for like 1/2 of the episode!

Why did they axe her? Maybe they'll pull another come back stunt?

Very sad story line. The episode was very well done, but I think that it minimized her importance to the show.

Posted by: jones07

Did anyone really believed it was O'neil ? Com-on now, we all been watching TV long enuff to now it was Not O'neil that was dead, that it was some kind of twist coming. But I did not see Frasier as the twist. I was fooled 100%

Posted by: JimSpence

I was spoiled about Dr. Fraiser being the one. :( It still made it bad, especially the way they did it. I guess they thought we would be fooled about O'Neill. We knew from the previous show that they had the blast proof vest. It was logical that Jack would be wearing one. They explained in this ep that Jack took a hit where it protected him, but Janet's didn't.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Here's a thought! Can anyone spell sarcophagus? Doubtful, but wishful thinking!

Posted by: murgatroyd

I don't remember now if I had read Teryl was leaving the show or not, but my husband and I were guessing about who it might be.

I hate being right. :(

Jan

Posted by: wmcbrine

To me, this was perhaps the worst SG-1 ever. (I can only think of one rival for the title.) First, it felt like one ep's worth of plot stretched into a two-parter. The first part consisting mostly of all SGC personnel giving the documentarian a hard time, way beyond reason. All except Doc Frasier, of course -- and whatshisname, the guy who opens the iris. So given that, and their screen time in part 1, I knew it was one of them that was going to die; and realistically, it had to be Janet.

So then in part 2, when the documentarian complained about how boring the footage was that he'd recorded in part 1, I was thinking "Yes!". Then we get more boring stuff, a battle, then a nice speech from the documentarian -- BTW, was he somehow supposed to be unsympathetic, at least at first? Because I was 100% with him the whole way, and very annoyed at how the SGC treated him -- concluding with an unfitting death for one of my favorite characters. I mean, yeah, she died in the line of duty and all, but she was hardly even in part 2... there should've been more, and a better story.

And now there's only one prominent, regular female character left on the show. Will they bring in a replacement?

Posted by: LordJohnWhorfin

They lost me when they started using Philips Pronto remotes as tricorders. My suspension of disbelief has limitations!

Posted by: Dago Red

quote:
Originally posted by LordJohnWhorfin
They lost me when they started using Philips Pronto remotes as tricorders. My suspension of disbelief has limitations!

Yea, I remember in "Crystal Skull", Sam was using a Marantz RC2000 remote while trying to locate Daniel. It was hysterical.

Posted by: JPriller

They aren't entirely horrible, in Prometheus where Sam is locked in the storage room while goons take over the ship, she builds a transmitter using a Hewlett Packard signal generator. Okay, that's the only appropriate use of name-brand technology I can think of, but it's something. :)

Posted by: lordrichter

I second the vote for worst episode candidate.

Part 1 was so boring and directionless that I almost decided to delete part 2 before watching it to make room for other shows that might get deleted by TiVo that I actually might want to watch. The actor playing the documentary dork did not help.

I didn't really watch Part 2, although I did play it. I was surfing the net and writing a reply to an Enterprise thread on here while TiVo was playing Part 2. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything important. This is definitely one of those episodes you can watch in Fast Forward with captioning turned on.

So, basically, I let the episode play for continuity with future episodes.

Even if I had not accidentally opened this thread as I was watching and saw from the first line who died, it was pretty obvious when the refused to show the infirmary that O'Neal was not the one.

I thought that the Robert Picardo uberlawyer interrogations were a little out of place in the midst of everything else going on. Why the distraction, other than to help make a 1 hour episode 2 hours long. I assume we will see more of him in a future episode where they actually spend some time on the subject and do more than run in, make threats, and run out.

I watched Enterprise "Doctors Orders" followed by immediately SG-1 "Heroes Part 2". Enterprise was actually the better episode, which doesn't say much for SG-1.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by lordrichter
I thought that the Robert Picardo uberlawyer interrogations were a little out of place in the midst of everything else going on. Why the distraction, other than to help make a 1 hour episode 2 hours long. I assume we will see more of him in a future episode where they actually spend some time on the subject and do more than run in, make threats, and run out.

...except this was part of an ongoing storyline with the senator and the NID trying to undermine/take over the Stargate program. This has been going on for years now...

Posted by: lordrichter

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
...except this was part of an ongoing storyline with the senator and the NID trying to undermine/take over the Stargate program. This has been going on for years now...

I don't think that justifies bringing it up in this eposide the way they did. It is still a distraction and it did very little to further the Senatorial subplot. Everyone knows that the Senator dislikes the SGC and sending another flunky is nothing new. They might as well bring it up in every episode.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

But every time the senator's flunkies come in, they have been granted more power. SG-1 is losing the political battle. And it seems to me like it's moving towards a final showdown--the conflict has definitely heated up this season.

No, I had no problem with The Doctor showing up. My only serious problem was the cheap theatrics surrounding Frazer's death.

Posted by: tomr

The series is fast losing my attention. I put that on the shoulders of RDA. He needed to be killed off. Since he has reduced himself to an "extra" I believe the show would be better off without him It can't hurt since the show has gone downhill with him.

Teal'c has been MIA for several episodes, which is a shame, I really like his character. It has basically be come the "Major Carter" show. It needs new direction, and fast.

I have watched this show from the beginning and really hate what has happened. I feel the writers have their hands tied because of the RDA situation.

Posted by: WinBear

There's only 3 episodes left for heaven's sake! There's one standalone episode and then the Lost City 2-parter setting up the new series. Is SG-1 going to have an 8th season? They shouldn't.

Posted by: JPriller

I've got one possible advantage over long-time fans of the show, I started watching it for the first time less than a year ago and thanks to SciFi's heavy schedule of repeats and late-night syndication on my local ABC station (it's so good to have a TiVo!) I've now seen everything but one episode of season 6.

Having seen them all close together and more or less in order I can say there have been some bad episodes, but not many, and I don't think that the show has gone downhill at all. A lot of people on fan sites were saying Shanks (Daniel Jackson) was looking burnt out in season 5, I didn't see that either.

I didn't think the Senator Kinsey flunky showing up was out of place, I thought it was in line with past episodes where when something remarkably bad happens the NID or Kinsey swoop in to criticize or try a take-over. They did some low-level character development on this flunky, so no doubt we'll be seeing him again in the season, and this was just to introduce him. It also made it more plausible for people to start relating to the director guy better, as he suddenly became the much lesser of their two headaches.

I think Robert Picardo (the flunky) did a fantastic job playing a bad guy, btw. He's got a ways to go before he can compete with Colonel Maybourne for my favorite villain, though. :)

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by WinBear
There's only 3 episodes left for heaven's sake! There's one standalone episode and then the Lost City 2-parter setting up the new series. Is SG-1 going to have an 8th season? They shouldn't.

Yes, it is...and that might not be as bad a thing as you think.

Remember--LAST season was supposed to set up Atlantis. When Atlantis got pushed back, that meant that this season of SG-1 became a holding action, since they couldn't really move on until Atlantis began. I'm hoping that the weakness of Season 7 is due to the inability to really accomplish anything, and that it will return to form next year (which begins this summer, along with Season 1 of Atlantis).

That being said, I agree that RDA needs to fish or cut bait, and that the show needs to replace him. There are rumors that, well, better spoiler it,

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Don Davis is leaving the show, and that RDA will replace him as the commander of the base, which means they would have to bring in somebody to actually replace him on the team, instead of these endless fishing trips.

If that's the case, it gives me even more hope for next season.

Posted by: bicker

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Did anyone really believed it was O'neil ?

Yes. Knowing just enough, but not too much, about the show is key to believing that. As far as I've heard, this is the end of the series. Anderson has made it very clear that he's even been seeking ways to limit his screen-time this season. Getting killed off a few episodes before the end of the season would have fit with that quite well.

Posted by: bicker

Rob are you sure about your spoiler? It seems contrary to what I've heard.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by bicker
Rob are you sure about your spoiler? It seems contrary to what I've heard.

It's a rumor I've heard. Dunno how accurate it is...

Posted by: bicker

Hehe... you're fast. I actually went and checked, and it isn't a rumor. It

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
(that the show is renewed for next season, 2004-2005)

was confirmed officially, back in July. So I guess it isn't even a spoiler.

Posted by: SparkleMotion

quote:
Originally posted by JimSpence

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Here's a thought! Can anyone spell sarcophagus? Doubtful, but wishful thinking!

Well, the next episode IS titled

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Resurrection

but that might not mean anything.

I have to wonder if they're setting up Adam Baldwin (Jayne from Firefly) as a possible regular. He was the colonel of the team that got ambushed--sort of an "Easy Company" type of group (remember how they were betting on what they'd find, etc.?).

They didn't really give him much to do, but he got a pretty big credit. And he IS a colonel on the show.

Wonder if it means anything for the future?

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by bicker
Hehe... you're fast. I actually went and checked, and it isn't a rumor. It (that the show is renewed for next season, 2004-2005) was confirmed officially, back in July. So I guess it isn't even a spoiler.

That's not what I was calling a rumor...as you say, that's widely-publicized fact. The rumor is concerning the future of RDA's character...

Posted by: Mike20878

I thought I recognized the voice of the documentary narrator! I found his name at gateworld.net, Jim Byrnes. When I looked him up, there were a few Jim Byrnes, but then I realized it was the guy who played Joe Dawson on Highlander the TV show.

Posted by: Rcrew

Although I've watched all this season, and sporadically over the years, I don't feel like a loyal enough viewer to make many suggestions...

But I did like the Adam Baldwin character. Would like to see him back.

Posted by: JPriller

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Don Davis is leaving the show, and that RDA will replace him as the commander of the base

Heh - an entire reply that needs to be in spolier tags :)

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
It's hard to see O'Neill being give command of the SGC, him being such a smart-aleck and ruffling so many feathers with Kinsey and the NID, people with the ear of the president.

He was the commander in an alternate reality universe Daniel visited, but he wasn't the same guy - he was no-nonsence and had zero sense of humor. Maybe something in his recent past kept him from recovering from his son's death, or maybe it's hard to lighten up when your planet is being destroyed.

Posted by: cditty

The reason Casandra wasn't at the memorial service is becuase of the implant the Gu'auld placed in her body. Remember, the closer she gets to the gate, the bigger that device gets and gets ready to explode.

Chris

Posted by: mtmra70

What did Oniel say at the end? My STUPID TiVo ;) cut off before I saw what he said.

Posted by: bobjohnson

quote:
Originally posted by mtmra70
What did Oniel say at the end? My STUPID TiVo ;) cut off before I saw what he said.

You ain't the only one. :(

Posted by: JimSpence

Producer, "first question"
O'Neill, "Okay"

Posted by: Airlie

Well, I may be in the minority, but I really enjoyed both parts of this 2 parter. A lot of good, very dry humor in the first part. Setups for the second part were subtle enough that viewers would likely have almost forgotten them by the time they saw the second half.

I've had no problems with this season as a whole. I get the impression that some would perfer to have more melodrama, which I dislike.

Posted by: KLB

I first heard that "a much beloved character" would be getting killed last summer... Personally, my first thoughts went to Bratak or Jacob Carter.

Then I heard the rumor that Medieval Guy mentioned above and thought "yeah, that makes sense so RDA can do even LESS then he already does.... " and thought that would be the character to get it.

I was pretty shocked that it was Janet and pretty annoyed. Totally agree that they could have given her more stuff to do in the last group of eps or at least in this one to make the sting be felt a little more by the fans.... totally agree it was a stunt.

Teryl Rothery, as you have probably heard me say it before, is a total babe and think Janet is a character that was underused, underappreciated and not given ANY storylines that involved bathing suits or low cut and tight dresses. Shame... the shame of it...

Posted by: JPriller

quote:
Originally posted by cditty
The reason Casandra wasn't at the memorial service is becuase of the implant the Gu'auld placed in her body. Remember, the closer she gets to the gate, the bigger that device gets and gets ready to explode.

I was pretty sure they said that'd entirely dissolved, and at any rate she was back at the SGC (though never near the gate, if I recall) in season 5's Rite of Passage for some other Goa'uld-caused problem.

Posted by: cditty

Yea, I remember her being back too. Interesting. Maybe she can't go thru the gate. Maybe that is the catch.

Posted by: Joyster

It's so hard not to reply to each post as I'm reading through. I have to bite my tongue to see if anybody has already said what I'm going to....

Anyway, a lot of this has been covered already, but I'm going to include spoiler tags because I can't remember if the thread title says spoilers!

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

General Hammond is being reassigned by the president in the two-parter at the end of the season (there are 4 episodes left, 2 singles and then the 2-parter, not 3 as stated earlier in the thread).
O'Neill is promoted to General and assigned as head of Stargate Command, although he is determined to keep SG-1 as a 3 man team, I can't see any reasoning behind this unless he imagines the general can occasionally go on "field-trips" with his old team.

For those commenting on the NID situation - it is indeed building to a head, with Kinsey making a new play for control before the season is out - expect to see Robert Picado back for that (I miss Voyager sometimes :))

Ok, so that's done with (I think that was everything..... I actually thought this was a very good episode. The NID coming in fit in perfectly with the storyline - Why did General Hammond send Fraiser into a live fire situation? You would expect them to be investigating.
I will say that the first part dragged a little, but I think the 10 - 15 minutes at the end did justice to the character, it's not like they just blew it off - we saw all of the characters shaken up by the news, and then a child named Janet in her honour. More soppiness than this wouldn't have fit into the Stargate psychi.

Oh, and Casandra's implant has completely dissolved, she can come and go near the stargate as she pleases. The episode when the team went back to the sixties, she met them in the future IN the gate room, and didn't seem to have any explosion problems - I'd imagine they just couldn't get the actress back, I would think that using "just another actress to show they'd remembered her" would have caused as many complaints as her just not being there.

And for those thinking they are in the minority because they liked this show, the poll at GateWorld currently shows 73.5% think it was outstanding, and another 17.5% think it was a good show.

I'm kicking myself because I've been waiting all season for the Atlantis story arc to really come alive, but I know that when it does, the season will end, and I'll have to wait until Summer to find out what happens! :)

Editted to insert comments about Casandra

Posted by: SparkleMotion

If anyone watches "Curb Your Enthusiasm", you might have recognized the filmmaker (Emmett Bregman as played by Saul Rubinek) as Larry David's dentist in two recent episodes! :)

Posted by: WinBear

I wondered also if they didn't bring Cassandra in because they couldn't get either of the two young actresses they've previously had play her and didn't want to bring in a 3rd.

Posted by: Hoffer

I thought this 2 part 'Hero' episode was terribly boring. In fact, I haven't cared for any of the new episodes this year.

I'm looking forward to the start of Atlantis. It'll be nice to see a new Stargate universe.

Posted by: Timbeau

About 1/3rd of the way through part 2, I starting using the FF frequently. As such, the two parts only took about 1 hr. total to see. I still resent the fact that I wasted an hour on these episodes. This was some of the most boring TV I've seen in a long time. If I'd known there wasn't going to be anything worthwhile thorugh the WHOLE second part, I could have deleted it without watching it. The only think interesting in the whole thing was their poor attempt to make us think the dead person was O'Neill, and that was done pretty badly.

Posted by: bonscott87

I thought the episode was good. Not great, but good. I knew Janet wasn't going to be back in season 8 after reading on Gateworld about a new head doctor at the facility but Janet biting the dust did take me by suprise. I knew it wouldn't be Jack because of his role in season 8 but I should have seen Janet coming.

This season overall has been ok. As stated earlier, just kind of a holding pattern to get Atlantis going. They say season 8 will now be the last but then they have said that for the past 3 years so we'll see. Personally I think they do need to end it before it just goes too long. This coming from someone who owns every season on DVD.

Posted by: ADent

The Doctor going was no surprise. Her absence has been conspicuous in the episodes leading up to this.

I knew RDA was signed up for next year, I am just used to Star Trek were they have some crappy Treknobabble explanation on why the title character wasn't REALLY killed. So seeing the Doc go was a relief of a bit.

Why did the Doc leave? Did the Doc get another job?

Posted by: newsposter

quote:
Originally posted by ADent

Why did the Doc leave? Did the Doc get another job?

Just watched this finally. I am sad to see her go. I had no idea.

So can anyone tell me why she left the series? I need to watch the end of the season in the next few days to prepare for July's startup.

Posted by: bicker

The interviews I've read relayed that the story needed the death of a long-time character, and since the series was presumably wrapping up completely, it wasn't considered to be a big deal to kill off the doctor. It wasn't voluntary.

Posted by: newsposter

quote:
Originally posted by bicker
The interviews I've read relayed that the story needed the death of a long-time character, and since the series was presumably wrapping up completely, it wasn't considered to be a big deal to kill off the doctor. It wasn't voluntary.

well I wish she would ascend this year or something. It took time for her to grow on me but now I will miss her on the show.

Posted by: Sromkie

quote:
Originally posted by newsposter
well I wish she would ascend this year or something. It took time for her to grow on me but now I will miss her on the show.

Yeah, but unfortunately, she can't. You have to ascend while you are dying, and she is already dead :( Too bad. I will really miss her character.

Posted by: SparkleMotion

No, she and Kawalsky are the equivalent of

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Joyce and Tara

from "Buffy"...they have to die to show that people really DO die and what the principal characters are involved in is life-threateningly dangerous at every turn.

Dramatic tension and all that, wot?