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PC Mag Article
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Posted by: f0gax

Link

The article is about the columnist's experience with a Weaknees.com expanded unit. He's got some beef with Tivo. I think some of his problems are way off base and could have been resolved by RTFM or a little research.

I just don't buy that a Tivo recording at Best quality would show a "patchwork quilt" effect during a parade. My SA records everything in Best and has never had such a problem. And I record a lot of action oriented shows and sports.

Posted by: PaulaBerge

That guy is full of it - no way did he have those problems on best quality!

Maybe there's a drive access problem on what weaknees put in the unit he tested, that's all I can think of. I have a weaknees upgrade, but still have the original drive that came with TiVo, never had a problem.

Posted by: spankspank

The PCMAG reviewer said:

You can, of course, use TiVo as a VCR and have it record scheduled shows (and it does a much, much better job than your standard VCR). But I never really did that with my VCR and have done it exactly once with the TiVo (for a late night showing of Silent Movie).

Hello? Am I missing something or did he only use Tivo to pause live TV?

Posted by: f0gax

That's what it sounds like.
He mentions Season Passes, but did not seem to use them.

And I think this points to what Tivo can do to rise above the market. These cable DVRs, from what I've read, are basically just digital VCRs. Where the Tivo can do much more. Tivo, the company, needs to emphasize that fact far and wide.

Posted by: PaulaBerge

quote:
Originally posted by f0gax
Tivo, the company, needs to emphasize that fact far and wide.

Yes, you are so right. Maybe some kind of commercial with a "but can yours do THIS?" theme. It's just so hard to sum up how much better TiVo is in a short time though.

Has anyone written an article on TiVo Brain Syndrome? I have it, I go to the theater and want to back up the movie a few seconds, also happens while listening to the radio and talking to people. I swear it's getting worse every day.

Posted by: sa-gamer

Is that what it's called? TIVO BRAIN SYNDROME?

It happens all the time with me. I hear something on the radio or am watching the TV that isn't connected to the TiVo and I reach for a non-existent remote to back up a few seconds.

Posted by: PaulaBerge

Just my name for it - I don't like to talk about this very much, but figured it was safe here ;)

I don't reach for the remote, it somehow is magically in my hand all the time.

Posted by: lajohn27

quote:
Originally posted by PaulaBerge
Yes, you are so right. Maybe some kind of commercial with a "but can yours do THIS?" theme. It's just so hard to sum up how much better TiVo is in a short time though.

Has anyone written an article on TiVo Brain Syndrome? I have it, I go to the theater and want to back up the movie a few seconds, also happens while listening to the radio and talking to people. I swear it's getting worse every day.

Ah yes, the dreaded T.B.S. (the illness not the Ted Turner channel).

In my opinion, that idea right there is the best new ad campaign for TiVo.

Users pausing life in their head.. or pausing movies in theatres.. etc.

TiVo Users View Life Differently.. something like that.

J

Posted by: PaulaBerge

Hi John - think we can convince TiVo to do this? It's truth in advertising.

I'm really just waiting for the day when I have my sunglasses with built-in TiVoToGo (that can also record whatever my eyes see).

Posted by: lajohn27

TiVo Users See Things Differently.

Great tagline.. in my opinion.

I'd love to be able to grass-roots TiVo into doing a user-focused ad campaign. And the fact that the president of TiVO used to be my boss at NBC in New York City would allow me the perfect contact you would think.. but ...

In reality, I know that these kinds of things are accomplished by large advertising and marketing consulting firms that charge hundreds or thousands of dollars an hour to come up with the exact same idea and ruin it to the point of being useless.

So, let's just let them do their.. *ahem* work. :)

J

Posted by: PaulaBerge

quote:
Originally posted by lajohn27

And the fact that the president of TiVO used to be my boss at NBC in New York City would allow me the perfect contact you would think.. but ...

I dunno, I'm picturing a TiVo version of The Apprentice right now :eek:

Posted by: weaknees

David Pogue calls TBS the "TiVo Twitch" here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/26/t...its/26stat.html

Michael

Posted by: PaulaBerge

Too weird, that article just came out today - thanks Michael!

Posted by: drewman

quote:
This is a bigger problem than it may seem. Because the show control buttons are sized arbitrarily and aren't that intuitive, you run the risk of losing the program you're watching. For example, my wife and I were watching a show and had to stop it for an extended period of time. No problem. We paused TiVo, and it recorded until we were ready to resume watching. But when we accidentally changed channels on the remote, we lost the recorded show. This is because real-time recording can only happen on one channel at a time, and TiVo automatically records the active channel. TiVo, or even WeaKnees.com, should add a Channel Lock button or function.

He is just using the live buffer! It would warn you about changing the channel if it was recording.

The buttons are sized the way they are to facillitate what you would do with a properly utilized TiVo.

I think he really wants a Windows Media Center and he deserves it too...

Andrew

Posted by: grecorj

Weird.

Posted by: ort

What a piss-poor article. This guy is just missing the point altogether. Bad journalism.

I've had my TiVo for 2 months as well, and it's already turned my whole world upside down. This guy just didn't get it.

Posted by: dugbug

Looks like a reasonable article to me. Especially the image quality. He may have a Panasonic 810.

As for loosing the live buffer when you change the channels, most of us first-come users expect to see in the buffer up to 30 minutes, including recording the channel flipping (just like having a vcr running). This is not necessarily recording 100 channels simultaneously, just what we are watching.

I've accidentally forgot I had 20 minutes of unwatched live-buffer and flipped over to another channel and back many times. Doh!

Posted by: mrtim

He may have owned a TiVo for two months, but I bet he didn't use it all that much. Especially with that comment about using "TiVo as a VCR and have it record scheduled shows" . . . he's missing something pretty fundamental.

We've had a TiVo for just over a week (the exact WeaKnees version he is reviewing in fact), and my wife is already making plans to watch something else when a show we want to see is on, rather than watch it live without fast forward.

I'd suggest that nobody told him how to do the 30 second skip, but the WeaKnees folks included those instructions in an insert so there's no excuse.

Posted by: TiVoPony

Part of the problem I think is that TiVo wasn't involved in this at all. We could have answered his questions/concerns if given the chance prior to the article being published.

Unfortunately, we weren't given that chance.

What I've read in the article does not sound consistent with a typical customer experience at all.

Cheers,
Pony

Posted by: lajohn27

quote:
Originally posted by PaulaBerge
I dunno, I'm picturing a TiVo version of The Apprentice right now :eek:

No no, he never pointed at me and said "You're fired."

He liked me. Really. He did.

I swear.

Or at least I think he did.. :)

J

Posted by: ZeoTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by dugbug
Looks like a reasonable article to me. Especially the image quality. He may have a Panasonic 810.

As for loosing the live buffer when you change the channels, most of us first-come users expect to see in the buffer up to 30 minutes, including recording the channel flipping (just like having a vcr running). This is not necessarily recording 100 channels simultaneously, just what we are watching.

I've accidentally forgot I had 20 minutes of unwatched live-buffer and flipped over to another channel and back many times. Doh!

true but you are not writing this up for a major PC article and passing off half baked knowlege as the end all be all of what a TiVo is , can do.
I am sure it did not take you long to realize the one tuner was only doing a buffer on one channel at a time as he should have reported accurately

Posted by: PaulaBerge

quote:
Originally posted by lajohn27
No no, he never pointed at me and said "You're fired."

He liked me. Really. He did.

I swear.

Or at least I think he did.. :)

J

I'm sure he did - gosh I didn't mean for you to take it that way. I meant a show where TiVo picks amateurs to do their advertising and was just tying that in with NBC and what you said. Don't mind me, I'm aging as we speak.

Posted by: PaulaBerge

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony
Part of the problem I think is that TiVo wasn't involved in this at all.

Exactly! No offense to weaknees at all, but I don't understand why, if he was going to do an article, would he choose to test an upgraded unit. For as little as he used it, all that space was wasted.

The upgrades should be left to experienced customers who just can't get enough IMO

Posted by: HDTiVo

quote:
Part of the problem I think is that TiVo wasn't involved in this at all. We could have answered his questions/concerns if given the chance prior to the article being published.

Unfortunately, we weren't given that chance.

What I've read in the article does not sound consistent with a typical customer experience at all.

Cheers,
Pony

A person in that position should need to call TiVo and get his hand held? What should TiVo be doing for the masses?

Get real, this guy bungled his assignment and the magazine should make amends to its readers.

Posted by: mrtim

quote:
Originally posted by PaulaBerge
The upgrades should be left to experienced customers who just can't get enough IMO

I don't know, that part I do understand. Before buying I knew several people who were converts, and the only complaints I ever heard were all related to picture quality caused by using higher compression caused by insufficient disk space.

Those stories may well have come from folks with early units and small drives, but it was enough to make me decide to wait until larger drives were offered.

Posted by: TiVoPony

quote:
Originally posted by HDTiVo
A person in that position should need to call TiVo and get his hand held? What should TiVo be doing for the masses?

Get real, this guy bungled his assignment and the magazine should make amends to its readers.

I think you misunderstood my comments.

He's a reporter, not one of the masses. Writing a review of a product.

If we'd had an opportunity to be involved, we might have been able to help answer his questions before the article was published. We talk to reporters every day. :)

Cheers,
Pony

Posted by: HDTiVo

No I really did understand you.

He's a reporter for PC MAGAZINE

There's no way in hell he should need any help or coaching from TiVo to properly review the product. He should be intelligent enough, and he should have done an independent and competant job on his own.

The the magazine's standards are deficient and it should make amends to its readers.

Posted by: dugbug

quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
true but you are not writing this up for a major PC article and passing off half baked knowlege as the end all be all of what a TiVo is , can do.
I am sure it did not take you long to realize the one tuner was only doing a buffer on one channel at a time as he should have reported accurately

No no, Im not saying multiple tuners, Im saying it throws away what it recorded when you change the channel. Why not keep everything you got? If I watch channel 9 for 10 minutes, then change to channel 3 for 10 minutes, the buffer couuld have 20 minutes.

It takes some getting used to was my point. Even now I still hate that it works that way.

Posted by: ZeoTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by dugbug
No no, Im not saying multiple tuners, Im saying it throws away what it recorded when you change the channel. Why not keep everything you got? If I watch channel 9 for 10 minutes, then change to channel 3 for 10 minutes, the buffer couuld have 20 minutes.

It takes some getting used to was my point. Even now I still hate that it works that way.

I understand. everyone has the particular habit they do where they go DOH! I actually like that it clears the buffer and gives me an accurate time bar on the new channel. to each his own.

I am just saying that the article writer should have explained it as clearly as you just did ;)

Posted by: HDTiVo

Come again? What kind of weirdo likes the buffer dump on channel change?

S&M TiVo users love that coupled with the slower than cable remote channel change?

I am going to spend Easter Sunday channel surfing Digital Cable channels with my TiVo remote so I can suffer for the rest of your sins.

:)

Posted by: lajohn27

If you have ever run into this.. it's kinda neat.

Situation : I was watching something about 10 minutes behind live. Totally unbeknownst to me, the TiVo had a scheduled recording at the top of the next hour.

It changed the channel and started recording at the top of the hour, but let me finish watching the buffer till I finished the previous show.. I thought *that* was pretty slick.

J

Posted by: ZeoTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by HDTiVo
Come again? What kind of weirdo likes the buffer dump on channel change?

S&M TiVo users love that coupled with the slower than cable remote channel change?

I am going to spend Easter Sunday channel surfing Digital Cable channels with my TiVo remote so I can suffer for the rest of your sins.

:)

Both are "features" I do not use much. Actually if they changed it to not dump it would make no difference to me so I guess "like" is to strong a word. AH, I guess it would be useful to not have the buffer dump if the TiVo changes the channel to start recording something. but I tend not to casually surf on the TiVo as TiVo is just pegged to channel 73 and I use the VCR to channel surf.

edit -- looks like lajohn27 confirms tha tyou can watch a buffer while TiVo changed the channel to watch a different show. So as long as you are in the buffer watching it - the buffer does not dump. Now that I think about it - I have used this and finished watching a show I was behind real time on while TiVo recorded the next show.

Posted by: HDTiVo

>but I tend not to casually surf on the TiVo as TiVo is just pegged to
>channel 73 and I use the VCR to channel surf.

For once, I simply have no come back. [Crowd roars]

;)

Posted by: samo

quote:
Part of the problem I think is that TiVo wasn't involved in this at all. We could have answered his questions/concerns if given the chance prior to the article being published.

Unfortunately, we weren't given that chance.

Maybe guy couldn't get through your stupid voice prompt system or didn't want to wait 45 minutes for life operator? Notice, he called Weeknees for answers. Maybe if your CS didn't suck you would have a chance to explain some confusions he had. Of course his experience "is not consistent with typical customer experience", new customers with problems or questions (unless they are reporters) don't have a chance to talk with TiVo because of CS hell - they just return units back to the stores. And I don't see anything that he screwed up. He liked things that most of us like, he didn't like things that at least some us don't like. His conclusion was that TiVo service is not worth the price - some people would agree with him (at least 2/3 of PVR owners who have alternative PVRs or millions who don't have PVR at all) and it was his un-biased opinion - like it or not.

Posted by: HDTiVo

Samo:

The thing is that some of the comments in the article indicate he did not fully exercise the features of TiVo, and perhaps did not use it enough to fully adjust to using it and appreciate its power.

Doing so would cause an incomplete picture to be presented in the article and lead him to inaccurate conclusions. Its his job to be thorough - a journalistic principle - and then present an unbiased view.

Anyone write to PC Mag to complain?

Posted by: ZeoTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by HDTiVo
>but I tend not to casually surf on the TiVo as TiVo is just pegged to
>channel 73 and I use the VCR to channel surf.

For once, I simply have no come back. [Crowd roars]

;)

no idea where you are going here or why you are down on my posts here. I just said something about my opinion on the channel buffer and that no one would use the TiVo for a fun night of channel surfing and wiating for it to change channels.

You obviously did not figure out my statement you quoted and felt the need to post it as if I said something stupid.

-----------------
what I have is a TiVo that is hooked up to an AVcast system and my TiVo video out is available on channel 73 on any TV hooked up to my household COAX cable. So I channel surf on my combo DVD/VCR player and if I want to watch TiVo I go to channel 73 and make use of TiVo features. since I record TiVo at medium quality then the noise that the AVcast intoruces is not much. If I have a best quality recording or do watch live TV on the TiVo to use the pause and channel buffer , I have an A/B switch to watch the TiVo signal direct into the component video in on my TV.

All of this I do with one universal remote.:)

if you have any issues :confused: with this let me know :rolleyes:

Posted by: edrock200

This guy seems to think that Weaknees has development say in the product...he mentions that Tivo or Weaknees should redesign the remote or add a channel lock...also, MPEG3? Is there such a thing? Tivo's use mpeg2 right?

Posted by: lajohn27

Worth noting that changing channels on a Digital Cable box is pure hell - and that ain't TiVO's fault.

Digital Cable ruins channel surfing. Such is life.

I will say that with my General Instrument cable box set to code 10006 FAST, I find that channel changing is about as quick and painless as it can be on the TiVo.

And while we're complaining about the shortcomings of Digital cable, who EVER thought that skimpy guide surrounded by a billion useless ads on most cable boxes was a good idea?

J