TiVo Community Forums Archives - Does anyone trust First-run SP's anymore?

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

Does anyone trust First-run SP's anymore?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: b166er

Is it a conspiracy? Is Sky paying Tribune to drive us all away from TiVo into the waiting arms of Sky+ ? It sure seems like it.

If you set first-run you get nothing at all. If you set repeats & first run you get every episode (including 3 or 4 repeats of the same episode in the same week).

I just tried to set a first-run SP for Friends which is first-running Friday nights on channel 4. As usual I ended up having to set a manual repeat recording. It's the only way to guarantee getting only the episode you want. I'm now at the mercy of the schedulers if they shift the program by a few minutes or half an hour but I trust them more than I trust Tribune listings now.

I don't recommend TiVo to people now.

Posted by: scoopuk

quote:
Originally posted by b166er
Is it a conspiracy? Is Sky paying Tribune to drive us all away from TiVo into the waiting arms of Sky+ ? It sure seems like it.

If you set first-run you get nothing at all. If you set repeats & first run you get every episode (including 3 or 4 repeats of the same episode in the same week).

I don't recommend TiVo to people now.

I still recommend TiVo all the time - no new converts for ages though !

My Simpsons first run season pass on Sky 1 has worked well for several years and still does.

Posted by: BrianHughes

I've never used first run. I don't think you can rely on it at all.

Posted by: b166er

quote:
Originally posted by scoopuk
My Simpsons first run season pass on Sky 1 has worked well for several years and still does.

Well that scuppers the Sky conspiracy theory then. Unless of course they want us to think that :)

It just goes to show though that a UK based service with local knowledge would be on the ball and know what's going on.

At this stage my TiVo makes me equally angry at the listings and happy at what it does record. It's very much a 50/50 love/hate relationship with my TiVo now. I don't think those in America have half as much to complain about.

I really get the feeling that there's no human thought process involved in Tribune's listings. They get what they're given from the broadcasters and through it into their listings generator somehow.

Posted by: peteroddan

I think your Tivo is bahaving as it should !
Friends is actually first running on E4 the night before it airs on Channel 4, so the Friday night showing on E4 is technically a repeat.

Posted by: sanderton

FRO has never worked reliably and should not have been introduced in the UK; it was built to solve an American problem (new and old episodes in the same time slot) we don't have and was unaware of a UK one (same programme having different "first run" dates on pay TV/ Dugital free TV/ analogue free TV) causing many misunderstandings.

I only have one FRO SP - the Simpsons on Sky One. I can do that because a) it really is the station that broadcasts it first and b) it's such a popular show I'm confident I would see a posting that there was a problem with it well in advance.

I have to say that I don't in general have a problem with guide data causing me to miss programmes. Guide data causing in the same show to be recorded several time, certainly - although my hard disk is big enough to cope with that.

Posted by: iankb

The only disappointment would be if you ever expected FRO to be usable. Having looked at the theory of it, I realised that I would never be able to trust it, so have never used it. Meanwhile, I'm totally happy with my TiVo and would recommend it to anyone. ;)

Posted by: sanderton

quote:
Originally posted by peteroddan
I think your Tivo is bahaving as it should !
Friends is actually first running on E4 the night before it airs on Channel 4, so the Friday night showing on E4 is technically a repeat.

"First Run" in TiVospeke means "first shown in the last 28 days" - it does not mean the very first showing only.

Re: my last post on misunderstandings of FRO - QED!

Posted by: b166er

quote:
Originally posted by peteroddan
I think your Tivo is bahaving as it should !
Friends is actually first running on E4 the night before it airs on Channel 4, so the Friday night showing on E4 is technically a repeat.

You almost had me believing there. I cancelled my manual repeat recording, added an SP for FRO on E4 and hey presto. No recordings selected (especially next thursday 4th march). Out of 57 upcoming episodes none were selected.

Back to the manual recording.

Posted by: b166er

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
FRO has never worked reliably and should not have been introduced in the UK; it was built to solve an American problem (new and old episodes in the same time slot) we don't have and was unaware of a UK one (same programme having different "first run" dates on pay TV/ Dugital free TV/ analogue free TV) causing many misunderstandings.

I only have one FRO SP - the Simpsons on Sky One. I can do that because a) it really is the station that broadcasts it first and b) it's such a popular show I'm confident I would see a posting that there was a problem with it well in advance.

I have to say that I don't in general have a problem with guide data causing me to miss programmes. Guide data causing in the same show to be recorded several time, certainly - although my hard disk is big enough to cope with that.

Coincidentally, Sky one with the simpsons *is* an example of a place where repeats and first runs are sometimes mixed, or at least it used to be when I watched it many years ago. They sometimes showed two new episodes at 6pm and sometimes only one, with another repeat next to it.

I still think FRO is a valid facility to have in the UK though.

What bugs me the most about having a show and getting multiple repeats of the show (despite my also large disk size) is that you can sometimes be causing a clash and missing another show while recording something that a proper set of listings would avoid.

My little britain SP was high in my SP priority list because I didn't want to miss one. Surely the 4 or 5 episodes it recorded were to the detriment of some other SP's. That's the worst part of it.

Another thing that bugs me is that if you set an SP higher than something else in the list, despite having two showings in one day of that show (and it could therefore record the second showing) it will record the first showing despite the fact that it clashes with something else. If I had my way, a season pass that's high up in the list would check if it's clashing something else out of getting recorded, and if it is, it would check itself and the other show for alternate airings to make sure both get recorded. As far as I know it's not like that. If you set an SP for the david letterman show it will always record the first one, even if that clashes with a lower priority SP of a show that's only shown once. Clever logic would make it realize it can allow the lower priority (with no repeat) to grab that slot because the second showing of letterman would be fine.

Posted by: cwaring

quote:
Originally posted by b166er
You almost had me believing there. I cancelled my manual repeat recording, added an SP for FRO on E4 and hey presto. No recordings selected (especially next thursday 4th march). Out of 57 upcoming episodes none were selected.

Back to the manual recording.

The "Friends" issue only arose this week 'cos it's just been broken somehow. It did work for the first few episodes.

With the one exception as above, all of my current FROSPs work perfectly.
If I had TivoWeb, I'd list them for you :)

Posted by: sanderton

quote:
Originally posted by b166er
Another thing that bugs me is that if you set an SP higher than something else in the list, despite having two showings in one day of that show (and it could therefore record the second showing) it will record the first showing despite the fact that it clashes with something else. If I had my way, a season pass that's high up in the list would check if it's clashing something else out of getting recorded, and if it is, it would check itself and the other show for alternate airings to make sure both get recorded. As far as I know it's not like that. If you set an SP for the david letterman show it will always record the first one, even if that clashes with a lower priority SP of a show that's only shown once. Clever logic would make it realize it can allow the lower priority (with no repeat) to grab that slot because the second showing of letterman would be fine.

I completely agree in principle. But when you start to do the maths of examining all the various premutations and combinations to come up with the optimum set of recordings, you can see why they didn't go down that route. A 3GHz P4 would take quite a time to work it out if you have 150 SPs, with each one generating up to 20 or 30 "hits". The 32MHz PPC chip in a TiVo just couldn't do it.

Posted by: GarySargent

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
FRO has never worked reliably and should not have been introduced in the UK

This is simply not true. I have a number of First Run season passes that work just fine and it would be a nightmare if the option didn't exist (eg Stargate SG1).

Its clearly highly dependant on good guide data, but there are many instances where it is absolutely needed, and works well.

Posted by: sanderton

Count the number of postings in the Errors thread which are OAD errors; and the number of posting in the main forum which turn out to be misunderstandings of what FRO is/does.

Posted by: GarySargent

I'm not claiming its perfect, nor am I claiming its easy to understand. But if you do understand it and the guide data is good then its extremely useful for certain programmes.

This really needs to be treated as an advanced option. I guess the fact that people are using this without understanding shows that adding lots of advanced functionality to TiVo would have been a mistake.

Posted by: groovyclam

FRO would work both the way it does now and even the way a lot of people think it should work if Tribune changed their systems to hold a unique OAD for each channel an episode airs on.

e.g. Simpsons Halloween IV episode might have aired first on SkyOne on 31-10-1996 and first on BBC2 on 14-10-2002.

Tribune should keep both OAD dates in their systems and insert the right OAD for whichever channel that the episode is being (re)broadcast on.

That way those people who have a SkyOne FRO season pass for Simpsons would get their FRO Simpsons episodes and people who only have terrestrial TV could set up a BBC2 FRO Simpsons season pass. You could even set up one single FRO title wishlist for "The Simpsons" which would catch both FRO episodes on BBC2 and FRO episodes on SkyOne with one stroke if you so desired.

This would fix the bloody awful problem with the current season of Friends on C4/E4 since they have got OAD dates from some Irish channel I believe, which must have shown them more than 28 days prior to C4/E4.

Sadly this just isn't going to happen since TiVo/Tribune pay such little heed to the British market anymore.

The thing that surprises me most is how half-assedly this feature was thought through and designed in the first place. The tweak I mentioned above should have been spotted and incorporated by a decent systems designer ( mind you, hindsight is always 20/20 )

Also, who would foot the bill for such a change now ? Is the problem TiVo's software responsibility or Tribune's data responsibility ? I think this is another good reason why TiVo should be more open in who they allow/approach to provide the data for them. If somehow more competition could be introduced into the process of providing listings to TiVo boxes it would encourage Tribune to get more accurate listings for us Brits and at a reduced cost to TiVo inc. I would love it if somehow the systems could be changed so British TiVo's got their data from the DigiGuide team. There is a lot to be said for the team compiling the listings being in the same country as the channels themselves and actually watching the TV they are compiling data about.

Posted by: bobnick

quote:
Originally posted by cwaring
The "Friends" issue only arose this week 'cos it's just been broken somehow. It did work for the first few episodes.

No, the OAD date was wrong for the first couple of episodes - I rang up and paid my 60p to complain and it was fixed - but 3 weeks later it broke again :mad: :mad:

Posted by: b166er

quote:
Originally posted by bobnick
No, the OAD date was wrong for the first couple of episodes - I rang up and paid my 60p to complain and it was fixed - but 3 weeks later it broke again :mad: :mad:

Who did you ring up? TiVo customer service in the UK or Tribune themselves (somehow) ? I just wish they'd read forums and take notice. They could even come here and ask questions like "can anyone tell us which of the many episodes of catterick shown weekly on BBC3 is the new one every week because the data we get doesn't tell us". A post or two later and they know. Probably just about every show airing is watched by at least one person here.

There really is a problem when the ONLY way to accurately get only the first showing among a week full or repeats is to set a manual repeat recording.

Posted by: pahunt

FRO have to be used in the right context. The only ones I have are for primetime shows on the big channels such as Angel on Sky 1, Jonathon Creek on BBC1 and Scrapheap Challenge on C4. However there are a lot more that I would like to use FRO for but I know I can't trust.

Posted by: AlanMWhite

I've had no trouble with mine!!!!

Posted by: GarySargent

quote:
Originally posted by groovyclam
Tribune should keep both OAD dates in their systems and insert the right OAD for whichever channel that the episode is being (re)broadcast on.

And then there would likely be issues between channels like E4 and E4P1 - eg old friends episodes that aired before E4P1 started to broadcast. Technically these would be First Run on E4P1 and not on E4. So you couldn't get a Season Pass for E4 and E4P1 to sort out clashes.

You just aren't going to win every time with a feature like this. Not without a whole plethora of options that would confuse people even more.

For Friends people should have First Run for E4, and First Run & Repeats for C4 (since C4 only shows one series at a time anyway). This might still not work because of duff guide data, but this is the correct configuration for Season Passes.

quote:
Originally posted by b166er
I just wish they'd read forums and take notice.

This forum is NOT an official way to report issues with TiVo, or its guide data. You need to call customer services. The guide data thread is monitored by Tribune, but this is as a convenience to customers and is not an official channel for reporting problems.

Posted by: slob

I think the FAQ thread explanation covers the way FRO works very well, but it might be worth strengthening the warning about only using it if you really need it!

The shame of this is that the feature depends on local modification of US data for some shows and still suffers when different channels here have run shows more than 28 days apart.

If "Fred" had his time again I'm sure there would be better ways of designing the feature to fit the UK environment, but as things stand we'll have to work with it as it stands!

Posted by: steveroe

Gary,

C4 are currently showing more that one series of Friends, the 20:30 show on a Friday is from an old series.

I use FRO a lot, but I also know to check (based on the pattern of previous week's recording) when someone doesn't appear in the To Do List and I think it should!

Posted by: pahunt

quote:
Originally posted by steveroe
Gary,

C4 are currently showing more that one series of Friends, the 20:30 show on a Friday is from an old series.

I use FRO a lot, but I also know to check (based on the pattern of previous week's recording) when someone doesn't appear in the To Do List and I think it should!

Plus C4 have started showing them from the beginning at 7.30am on weekdays.

Posted by: ericd121

quote:
Originally posted by GarySargent
This is simply not true. I have a number of First Run season passes that work just fine and it would be a nightmare if the option didn't exist (eg Stargate SG1).

Its clearly highly dependant on good guide data, but there are many instances where it is absolutely needed, and works well.

FYI I had to add this Sunday's C4 SG1 manually because it wasn't picked up by my FRO SP.

I agree withb166er; someone from Tribune should come here and us this free resource for error checking of their data. It would be half an hour of someone's time well spent.

Posted by: groovyclam

quote:
And then there would likely be issues between channels like E4 and E4P1 - eg old friends episodes that aired before E4P1 started to broadcast. Technically these would be First Run on E4P1 and not on E4. So you couldn't get a Season Pass for E4 and E4P1 to sort out clashes.

Gary - that is just a small problem which would sort itself out eventually once the Friends episodes had all appeared on E4+1

How many times would the appearance of a *new* timeshift channel of an *existing* channel happen ? Not often - and it is a small price to pay for FRO to work better.

There are no other problems with my proposed solution that I can think of.

If TiVo cared about the UK at all they would be pressing Tribune for better quality UK data firstly and asking ( paying? ) Tribune to enact my proposed solution ( or something better ) secondly.

I am totally disillusioned with TiVo the company but love my TiVo box as a fantastic useful gadget. I feel frustrated that we have to suffer the problems we do with TiVo/Tribune data when there are better and cheaper/free methods that should be put in place to improve UK guide data than a phone call at *our* expense to fix problems that *we* have to find.

I am hoping that DigiGuide's next version has the ability that TiVo has to eliminate duplicate recordings in the schedule. If it does, I will probably end up building a PVR/Home Media PC under my TV with DG as the scheduler. My TiVo will probably then be sold on to a friend.

Posted by: sanderton

Your solution is not one Tribune can do; it would require a re-write of the TiVo software. Quite a fundamental one in fact.

Posted by: groovyclam

quote:
Your solution is not one Tribune can do

This isn't meant nastily but do you seriously think Tribune can not alter their computer databases and nightly TiVo-listing extraction software to hold an OAD for each channel ?

They may not *want* to do it because of time, effort and money but there is no way you can convince me they CAN'T PHYSICALLY do it.

Then, on compiling the data squirt for the night, their system should extract just *one* OAD for each programme in the schedule - the OAD that matches when this episode first aired on *this particular* channel it is on tonight.

There would be no requirement for our TiVo machines' data structures to change - I am not suggesting *our* TiVos hold all the OAD dates for each episode. Our machines would still receive just one OAD for each programme.

Unless our TiVos under the telly only hold the details ( and hence OAD ) for *one copy* of "series 10 episode 6" of Friends and the actual listings in our TiVos ( where it may appear upto 7 times across 3 channels in the same week ) point to that *same one copy* of the "series 10 episode 6" data, in which case our TiVos will require a rewrite.

Anyway, its all academic because it aint gonna happen. Roll on the next version of DigiGuide...

Posted by: richard plumb

why can't they just store series number in the data instead of OAD?

I'd rather have a 'record this series only' (having selected the particular series 10 of friends for example), then it'd skip the other series, which is what it is usually used to avoid.

Posted by: sanderton

quote:
Originally posted by groovyclam
This isn't meant nastily but do you seriously think Tribune can not alter their computer databases and nightly TiVo-listing extraction software to hold an OAD for each channel ?

This isn't meant nastily either, but I'm afraid you don't understand how the database works. :)

"The one where everyone is unutterably smug" episode of Friends a Program object in the db, and the Program object holds the OAD.

The show which is on C4 at 8pm is a Showing object in the db which doesn't hold the OAD, but is is linked to the Program object which does.

But if that episode was also on E4 at 10pm, the 10pm E4 Showing object is LINKED TO THE SAME PROGRAM OBJECT. Each and every showing of that episode on any channel has the same OAD.

To change that is not impossible of course - you'd alter the Program object to hold multiple OADs with some kind of lookup to the Station - but it's not trivial and it certainly isn't something Tribune can do by just changing the data.

Posted by: groovyclam

quote:
This isn't meant nastily either, but I'm afraid you don't understand how the database works.

"The one where everyone is unutterably smug" episode of Friends a Program object in the db, and the Program object holds the OAD.

Aha, I see...shame they made such a design snafu at the start.

Posted by: sanderton

It's not a snafu at all; it's a very sensible way of minimising the amount of downloaded data (which costs TiVo money per byte, in effect).

We only got the FRO functionality by accident; it was put in 2.5.x for the US market, where it works fine. They simply don't have the "unique OAD for differentt channels" issue. First Run programmes are on ABC, Fox, HBO or whatever, and only get shown on other channels when they go into syndication years after the shows were made - if at all.

They should either have left it out of the UK software, or made the required changes for it to work the way people would reasonably expect it to here.

Whatever, blaming Tribune is barking up the wrong tree.

Posted by: iankb

I think this is one of those items that people overlook when they think that internationalisation of a package is easy to design for. Every country will probably have some unique data pattern that you couldn't expect a US-based software house to allow for. Well, not unless they spent a significant amount on specialised R&D for each country.

Posted by: bobnick

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton

Whatever, blaming Tribune is barking up the wrong tree.

Indeed, but the functionality is in our Tivo's, and Tribune regularly and repeatedly put incorrect data in which screws up the feature even more.

Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
We only got the FRO functionality by accident; it was put in 2.5.x for the US market, where it works fine. They simply don't have the "unique OAD for differentt channels" issue. First Run programmes are on ABC, Fox, HBO or whatever, and only get shown on other channels when they go into syndication years after the shows were made - if at all.

Well, it's becoming more common for U.S. shows to air first run episodes on sister channels within a few days of each other. Charmed is the most prominent example of this practice, with new episodes first airing on WB's terrestrial channels, and then airing again five days later on a cable channel. TiVo handles such situations just fine, however, so I guess the UK problem involves more than just airing first run episodes on multiple channels. :confused:

Also starting to become more common is the practice of syndicating shows that originally aired on premium cable channels to show them years later on terrestrial channels (e.g., Stargate SG-1 and, it is rumored Sex and the City). In this case, the original air dates are for a channel that most people do not receive, so people seeing the shows for the first time on the non-premium channels must not select the First Run Only option. Perhaps, in effect, that is more like the problem that is being described?

Of course, we also have issues with occasional first run only episodes that are not recorded correctly due to bad guide data.

Posted by: sanderton

quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
Well, it's becoming more common for U.S. shows to air first run episodes on sister channels within a few days of each other. Charmed is the most prominent example of this practice, with new episodes first airing on WB's terrestrial channels, and then airing again five days later on a cable channel. TiVo handles such situations just fine, however, so I guess the UK problem involves more than just airing first run episodes on multiple channels. :confused:

Also starting to become more common is the practice of syndicating shows that originally aired on premium cable channels to show them years later on terrestrial channels (e.g., Stargate SG-1 and, it is rumored Sex and the City). In this case, the original air dates are for a channel that most people do not receive, so people seeing the shows for the first time on the non-premium channels must not select the First Run Only option. Perhaps, in effect, that is more like the problem that is being described?

Of course, we also have issues with occasional first run only episodes that are not recorded correctly due to bad guide data.

Our problem is akin to the second one. Many, many shows are shown the first time on either a pay channel or a digital free channel, and several weeks or months later on free TV.

This applies to virtually all US import shows, and increasingly to domestic ones as four of the five main free channels have digital offshoots they promote buy putting programmes aout on them first.

Posted by: Mike B

To answer the original thread title in a single word - "no"

I've found it best to let it record all episodes of the season pass, then just delete (or not watch, let the 'TTL' expire, and tivo delete them itself).

Slightly off topic, but I do find the 28-day rule slightly annoying, as I have missed several episodes of series when the guide data has listed the same episode two days in a row, and TiVo has cleverly decided not to record the "2nd showing".

Ah, well not much I can do to improve the guide data... :-(

Posted by: pahunt

quote:
Originally posted by delta_uk
To answer the original thread title in a single word - "no"

I've found it best to let it record all episodes of the season pass, then just delete (or not watch, let the 'TTL' expire, and tivo delete them itself).

Slightly off topic, but I do find the 28-day rule slightly annoying, as I have missed several episodes of series when the guide data has listed the same episode two days in a row, and TiVo has cleverly decided not to record the "2nd showing".

Ah, well not much I can do to improve the guide data... :-(

But if it wasn't for the 28 day rule then you'd probably have each more stuff to delete. The 28 day rule is a good thing, it's the guide data that's the issue.

Posted by: pgogborn

quote:
Originally posted by richard plumb
I'd rather have a 'record this series only' (having selected the particular series 10 of friends for example), then it'd skip the other series, which is what it is usually used to avoid.

<Background>
In the USA, a season is shorter than a series, something like Friends is one series composed of many seasons.
</Background>

It is my guess that this was the original intention at the design stage, but the idea was dropped, perhaps because they ran out of time before the product was launched.

In the same way as the TiVo software allows for hard coding (in the first instance a number in a database field rather than a text string) of things like a films BBFC rating (U, PG etc) it can also separately hard code Season Finale, Season Premiere, Series Finale, Series Premiere.

With the TiVo user interface you have got the functionality of a "Series Pass" but a menu item called "Season Pass". As other parts of the software recognise and allow for the distinction, it seems to me something missed the the first release of the software and is still missing

Edited to try and reverse the own goal which ericd121 blew the whistle on in the following post.

Posted by: ericd121

quote:
Originally posted by pgogborn
<Background>
In the USA, a series is shorter than a season, something like Friends is one series composed of many seasons.
</Background>

Err... If a series is shorter than a season, how can one series be composed of many seasons?? :confused:

Posted by: pgogborn

quote:
Originally posted by ericd121
Err... If a series is shorter than a season, how can one series be composed of many seasons?? :confused:

Easy - all you have to do to reverse word order is to make a post under the afluence of incohol.

Thanks - I will go back and edit it (try saying edit it in such a state).

Posted by: AMc

FWIW - I use first run quite a lot. Regularly checking here and in the To Do List means I'm not caught out by problems like the Friends issue - much :)

I would report more problems with the guide data if there were an easier 'official' way than phoning CS each time. I rarely have time to do that when I'm in front of listings and my Tivo.

I would really like Tribue/Tivo to set up a web page form that would allow us to report problems with all the necessary detail that got actioned OR agree to read and apply changes from the Special Thread here.

It's frustrating to report problems in the Special Thread and see them go unfixed but it's time consuming to phone each time you spot a problem and post aswell. We do pay for the listings, it would be nice if Tivo/Tribune were a little more receptive to our attempts to help.

Posted by: JNLister

I look at it this way:

The inconvenience of finding a workaround for Friends (namely, setting up a repeating manual recording for each slot E4/E4+1/C4 shows a new episode and letting the 28 day rule make sure I only get each new episode once)

is more tolerable than

The inconvenience of having to either look at the guide listing each week and manually set up for new Simpsons, or get into a Sunday routine of playing the 6.30 episode and, most of the time, deleting it amid a cry of 'Seen it!'

Posted by: groovyclam

quote:
namely, setting up a repeating manual recording for each slot E4/E4+1/C4 shows a new episode and letting the 28 day rule make sure I only get each new episode once

The 28day rule doesn't apply on manual repeat recordings - TiVo assumes you want this, no matter what, because it is a manual and so will record *all* those slots you mention above provided they do not clash with higher season passes.

Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by AMc
I would really like Tribue/Tivo to set up a web page form that would allow us to report problems with all the necessary detail that got actioned

TiVo has a web form, and both TiVo and TMS have email addresses for reporting guide data issues. However, I don't know if any of these three options can be used for UK issues. (The TiVo Help Center sticky thread �Before you ask�please check these top answers for TiVo questions!� has info on these reporting options if anyone would like to see if they can be used for UK issues.)

Posted by: cwaring

The form requires too much US-specific info to be used by anyone in the UK :(