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Enterprise 3/4 "Azati Prime" SPOILERS
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Posted by: net114
Did I miss this posted somewhere?
This was one of the best ENT episodes yet. I give it an A.
Great cliffhanger, but UPN's decision to make us wait 6 weeks for the next new episode, and changing to 9pm and then back to 8 pm is just stupid.
On the episode, Archer's torture, the Enterprise battle (more like whoopin'!!) no battle per say, I would have liked to have seen them get in a few licks... , and the quick look at 400 years in the future, ENT-J. .....great stuff.
Posted by: vertigo235
so it's back at 8pm now? I was excited about it being 9pm
Posted by: net114
9 pm for the repeats...then back to 8 pm when the new shows come on in 6 weeks...UPN Execs:"Lets help our ratings out guys, change time slots in 6 weeks twice!!"
Posted by: JYoung
Azati Prime
By Manny Coto, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga
The Enterprise finds the Death Star.
My notes:
Archer is determined
Uhm, that’s the teaser?
The shuttle. Continuity
Oh, Mayweather gets something to do.
Collides with the ship?
Ohh, Archer took out the monitoring station.
Shades of the Death Star exhaust port.
Daniels.
Enterprise-J?
Birth of the Federation.
“I don’t want you to die”????? Some Vulcan.
Deegra has a conscience
Oh there’s Phlox.
Oh right, T’Pol’s crying. :rolleyes:
Shades of the Flying Sub.
Of course Archer gets captured again.
And beaten up again.
T’Pol wants to try diplomacy.
She?
What is wrong with T’Pol?
Damn, just missed Travis.
Three bodies.
Ok, I will grant that this is good cliffhanger and I’m genuinely interested in how this turns out. The Enterprise totally thrashed and Archer captured (although a tad clichéd).
Plus there was a tantalizing glimpse of the future.
And again, the special effects were superb.
However, I can’t help feeling that the buildup was inadequate to this point. I don’t care enough about the consequences here to get really involved.
The amount of damage done to the Enterprise may require a reset button as well.
Then there’s T’Pol acting like a psycho which I found totally unappealing..
Plus, historically, B&B have a habit of fumbling the ball on part 2.
It almost made a B+ but I’ll give it a straight B.
Posted by: Peter000
Pretty damned fine episode.
T'Pol needs some serious Vulcan medicine. She's losing it.
I agree with the reset button theory... I think somehow time travel will save the day. But I'll be really impressed if they pull it off with out the aid of that crutch.
Angel, Enterprise and Smallville all on repeats/hiatus. A TV time out for me. :-)
Posted by: iDriveX
Here's my theory:
Remember when they left for the Expanse and Admiral Forest said that other Earth Ships would be ready in a few months time? Something tells me that a small fleet is about to come in and kick some major whoop-ass. Either that or secretly for the past few months, The Enterprise-A was being built and it will come with a Skeleton Crew to "rescue" the NX, Archer will command the new Enterprise from here on out. Would make sense, when was the last time we checked in with Forest?
Posted by: brahamt
One of the better efforts this season. Manny Coto (of O5 fame) continues to impress me. Though all of his efforts have not been superior, I'm wondering if they continue this show, if he should be the show runner.
Posted by: JediCowboyD
quote:
Originally posted by iDriveX
The Enterprise-A was being built
The only problem with that is that the "A" is April/Pike/Kirk's ship. The NX nomenclature for "experimental" was a nice touch allowing them to get around not having any letters before A but still keeping the Enterprise name in the line.
Maybe if they get a new ship, which I hope they do because resets are silly and repairs after that much damage seem unlikely, it will be named something like ESS-1701 for Earth Star Ship. I'm thinking that since it would give Kirk's ship a link to the past with the numerical part of the name, NCC could be a designation for Federation ships, and the NX prefix could still be used by the gang a Utopia Planitia for whatever tricked out designs they come up with for the next generation.
For the NX-03? I'm hoping for tailfins and bucket seats.
Posted by: f0gax
quote:
Originally posted by iDriveX
Here's my theory:
Remember when they left for the Expanse and Admiral Forest said that other Earth Ships would be ready in a few months time? Something tells me that a small fleet is about to come in and kick some major whoop-ass. Either that or secretly for the past few months, The Enterprise-A was being built and it will come with a Skeleton Crew to "rescue" the NX, Archer will command the new Enterprise from here on out. Would make sense, when was the last time we checked in with Forest?
<startrek geek>
The Ent-A was built for the fourth movie. If you mean the original series Ent, then that probably wouldn't work either, since it was just 5 or 10 years old at the start of Kirk's mission (IIRC).
</startrek geek>
Posted by: JediCowboyD
quote:
Originally posted by f0gax
<startrek geek>
The Ent-A was built for the fourth movie.
Yeah, you're right. I made the mistake that the A was assumed for April/Pike/Kirk's ship. Do you know if there was pre-Federation designation for ships?
Edited to add April and Pike. Because Bryanmc lets me know when I'm wrong.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by JediCowboyD
Yeah, you're right. I made the mistake that the A was assumed for Kirk's ship. Do you know if there was pre-Federation designation for ships?
Well, the 'A' was Kirk's ship. (Originally going to be the Yorktown, I believe)
But not the one he got from April and Pike.
Posted by: SWFan
quote:
Originally posted by iDriveX
Here's my theory:
Remember when they left for the Expanse and Admiral Forest said that other Earth Ships would be ready in a few months time? Something tells me that a small fleet is about to come in and kick some major whoop-ass. Either that or secretly for the past few months, The Enterprise-A was being built and it will come with a Skeleton Crew to "rescue" the NX, Archer will command the new Enterprise from here on out. Would make sense, when was the last time we checked in with Forest?
I too expected some kind of small fleet to rescue Enterprise, though not necessarily earth ships.
I'm also wondering if the reptilians might try a coup and take over the Xindi Council? I'm thinking that could help the story arc, Archer and a small earth fleet could liberate them, solidifying their relationship and at the same time, getting rid of the aggressives in the Xindi government.
Posted by: JediCowboyD
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
Well, the 'A' was Kirk's ship. (Originally going to be the Yorktown, I believe)
But not the one he got from April and Pike.
Dagnabit! You're right too! OK, I'm going to go dump this decaffeinated junk I'm drinking, get a real cuppa joe, wake up, and go correct that second post!
Posted by: dcushing
Everyone seems to be making a big deal over T'Pol's very unVulcan like behavior. I think that this can be very easily explained within the confines of the show.
Remember they encountered the Vulcan ship in the expanse and the entire crew had pretty much gone insane? It was because of a material that shielded the ship from the spacial anomalies. The Enterprise crew has some of this material on board, but doesn't want to use it because of the effects on T'Pol.
It could eventually come out that the storage unit on Enterprise is not doing a adequate job of shielding and she has been slowly being effected.
Just a speculation.
Dave
Posted by: allan
I actually liked this one! However, I'm starting to think T'Pol is a Romulan spy. No way is she really a Vulcan! Also, 6 weeks?! Uggh!
Posted by: Bryanmc
Someone mentioned that the expanse is affecting T'Pol.
I think this is a valid assumption. Her changes have been pretty gradual, clearly something is happening to her.
Posted by: allan
quote:
Originally posted by dcushing
Everyone seems to be making a big deal over T'Pol's very unVulcan like behavior. I think that this can be very easily explained within the confines of the show.
Remember they encountered the Vulcan ship in the expanse and the entire crew had pretty much gone insane? It was because of a material that shielded the ship from the spacial anomalies. The Enterprise crew has some of this material on board, but doesn't want to use it because of the effects on T'Pol.
It could eventually come out that the storage unit on Enterprise is not doing a adequate job of shielding and she has been slowly being effected.
Just a speculation.
Dave
If that actually comes out, I'll be happy, but until then, I'm going with my theory. She's a Romulan spy! ;)
Posted by: vertigo235
About the reset button
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Future show descriptions indicate otherwise
Posted by: Tivohud
I'll be very surprised if they are able to resolve this episode with anything other than a reset. The writers use the crutch of "Let's run to the future to get the answer" way too much. I haven't seen any evidence in this series that indicates to me that they will come up with anything better this time. If the series continues beyond this season I hope the temporal cold war arc is closed with the Xindi arc.
Posted by: ihatecable
I have to agree that this was one of the best episodes yet. Loved the turtle soup line,lol. With the T’Pol thing she I know its lame of her having a case of human fever but ultimately I think it would be interesting (all those who are not interested in seeing more of T’Pol’s skin please raise their hand,lol). This could be either because of her Vulcan MTD (mentally transmisted disease) or Vulcans were a little more in touch with their emotions before TOS. Also doesn’t she eventually turn down the seat on the Federation Counsel in TOS “Amok Time” (Kirk’s comment to Bones when he sees that Spock’s family is connected)? I’m thinking that she gets real bitter on humans it may either be a personal thing (Archer dumps her) or a cultural issues (humans are jerks,lol) in TOS
The only other thing was it was a bit if a downer seeing the bodies going flying out of the ship. I know they are trying to make it realistic, but with only 90 people on that ship and you see half a dozen people fly out in space it looks like not too many people will survive. Also if they were tying to keep it realistic the ship looks like its seconds from exploding even if the Xindi stop firing at it.
quote:
Originally posted by iDriveX
Here's my theory:
Remember when they left for the Expanse and Admiral Forest said that other Earth Ships would be ready in a few months time? Something tells me that a small fleet is about to come in and kick some major whoop-ass. Either that or secretly for the past few months, The Enterprise-A was being built and it will come with a Skeleton Crew to "rescue" the NX, Archer will command the new Enterprise from here on out. Would make sense, when was the last time we checked in with Forest?
It would be great for someone to open up another can of whoop-ass but that may be a bit of a reach. Another reach although it may be closer would be getting the Andorians involved again. With what’s his face (the Andorian commander) losing the prototype may have been given marching orders to get a peek at the full-scale weapon. Being that they were able to track Enterprise it wouldn’t have been too tough for them to track them down again and well you know where I am going. Also another angle would be that the Vulcans might send a few of their “big guns” in there as well since they would find out that the Andorians had the prototype and may be pursuing the weapon, in other words the Vulcans want a “piece of the action”. Of that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong ;)
Posted by: WinBear
Even if she is a Romulan spy, the humans cannot learn this since canon clearly indicates that humans don't know the Romulans resemble the Vulcans until Kirk's face-to-face encounter with them.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by ihatecable
IAlso doesn’t she eventually turn down the seat on the Federation Counsel in TOS “Amok Time” (Kirk’s comment to Bones when he sees that Spock’s family is connected)? I’m thinking that she gets real bitter on humans it may either be a personal thing (Archer dumps her) or a cultural issues (humans are jerks,lol) in TOS
Wasn't that T'Pau?
quote:
Originally posted by WinBear
Even if she is a Romulan spy, the humans cannot learn this since canon clearly indicates that humans don't know the Romulans resemble the Vulcans until Kirk's face-to-face encounter with them.
Tsk, tsk, tsk, Tommy.
Just because it's that way in TOS doesn't mean it will happen that way in Enterprise.
:rolleyes:
Posted by: allan
quote:
Originally posted by WinBear
Even if she is a Romulan spy, the humans cannot learn this since canon clearly indicates that humans don't know the Romulans resemble the Vulcans until Kirk's face-to-face encounter with them.
Humans had also never seen a Ferrengi before Picard encountered them.
Posted by: spelcheker
quote:
"Let's run to the future to get the answer"
I too am sick of all the time travel. Plus: crying Vulcans who can't fight, everyone in the expanse speaking english (apparently the magical invisible universal translator got invented sometime in the middle of season 1 and we just weren't told about it.), the enterprise's incredible 'scanning' capabilities that exceed everyone else's, and all the totally lame writing by lazy writers. Most of all, I'm mad about all the missed opportunities to explore how things got started, like gravity control.
Why oh why can't we have writers that are actually fans of Star Trek. It's definitely time for a shaking up of the staff on this show. If they don't, it's going to end Star Trek shows for good.
Posted by: allan
quote:
Originally posted by spelcheker
I too am sick of all the time travel. Plus: crying Vulcans who can't fight, everyone in the expanse speaking english (apparently the magical invisible universal translator got invented sometime in the middle of season 1 and we just weren't told about it.), the enterprise's incredible 'scanning' capabilities that exceed everyone else's, and all the totally lame writing by lazy writers. Most of all, I'm mad about all the missed opportunities to explore how things got started, like gravity control.
Why oh why can't we have writers that are actually fans of Star Trek. It's definitely time for a shaking up of the staff on this show. If they don't, it's going to end Star Trek shows for good.
If they had done this right, they could have explored a LOT of possibilities. Like, maybe the Klingon conflicts could have started BECAUSE we didn't have a universal translator, and they thought we were insulting their family. Or we could have seen events leading up to the Romulan war. Parts of the Xindi story are good, but it doesn't fit well with established ST history.
Posted by: spelcheker
Excellent example.
And remember how, a couple hundred years in the future, Kirk and Bones have to use a HAND HELD translator when they are on trial in the Klingon court? (movie #6)
There was such potential there.
While we're at it, how about:
1. If we can control gravity so well, why don't we store things in the cargo bay on the ceiling also?
2. If we can control gravity so well, why couldn't you turn it off in your cabin and enjoy a nice zero grav nap? ... Or something else? (wink wink nudge nudge say no more say no more). Imagine how interesting those vulcan massages could become.:D
Posted by: Dale Sorel
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
I think somehow time travel will save the day.
Of course that's what will happen...whatever...as long as Porthos is OK :)
Posted by: jones07
quote:
Originally posted by ihatecable
Also doesn’t she eventually turn down the seat on the Federation Counsel in TOS “Amok Time” (Kirk’s comment to Bones when he sees that Spock’s family is connected)? I’m thinking that she gets real bitter on humans it may either be a personal thing (Archer dumps her) or a cultural issues (humans are jerks,lol) in TOS
I'm far from being a Star Trek Geek. But I though I read way back in the first season that, TOS T'Pol is not the same person as our T'Pol. Maybe T'Pol is a very common name like Jones ;) Or maybe it sounds close but spelled differently
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong
Posted by: JYoung
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
Someone mentioned that the expanse is affecting T'Pol.
I think this is a valid assumption. Her changes have been pretty gradual, clearly something is happening to her.
Yes, it is rumored that there will be an explaination for her erratic behavior.
It had better be a good one to explain her transformation from compatent Science Officer and Executive Officer to Ships Massuese and bimbo.
(And if Phlox wasn't so busy trying to pimp her out, maybe he could have relieved her on the basis of altered mental state) ;)
Posted by: Bryanmc
It's T'Pau.
Does no one rad my posts? :D
However, in TNG there's that episode where Picard pretends to be a mercenary on that ship and there's a Vulcan onboard named T'Pol.
Not the same one of course.
Posted by: jones07
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
Wasn't that T'Pau?
:rolleyes:
I wasn't sure if you was Sure.
Now I am.
Thx ;)
Posted by: ihatecable
ok you guys got me. but what you never heard of Steven vs. Stephen,lol
Posted by: net114
quote:
Originally posted by spelcheker
I too am sick of all the time travel.
Wow, will you take me next time?! Maybe we will see if the show is canceled a year from now!:D
Posted by: Hopeless
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
I agree with the reset button theory... I think somehow time travel will save the day. But I'll be really impressed if they pull it off with out the aid of that crutch.
Exactly what I was gonna say. Enterprise (the ship) is too far gone.
Posted by: 5thcrewman
I'm sorta sick to see that 400 years hence the uniforms are STILL getting uglier and uglier!!
Posted by: jlb.x
We never actually saw an Enterprise-J crew uniform... I believe Daniels was wearing the same garb (actually resembles the insectoids' a little) he was in previous episodes.
Posted by: ahartman
I expect that the Xindi council will fracture with the humanoids on the side of Enterprise and the Insectoids (and possibly the Aquatics) on the other. The humanoids will come to the rescue, destroying the limited insectoid ships and begin a shaky alliance to protect the Enterprise-J timeline.
Expect a lenghty stay as they repair Enterprise and learn more about the expanse.
Or they could cop out with the time travel thing. No, I'm not taking bets.
Posted by: kenerups
I thought T'Pau was a crappy '80s band.
Posted by: Peter000
quote:
Originally posted by spelcheker
remember how, a couple hundred years in the future, Kirk and Bones have to use a HAND HELD translator when they are on trial in the Klingon court? (movie #6)
There was such potential there.
While we're at it, how about :
1. If we can control gravity so well, why don't we store things in the cargo bay on the ceiling also?
2. If we can control gravity so well, why couldn't you turn it off in your cabin and enjoy a nice zero grav nap? ... Or something else? (wink wink nudge nudge say no more say no more). Imagine how interesting those vulcan massages could become.:D
1. Budget 2. Budget
It's just easier and cheaper not to have things floating about.
Nitpicky things like the gravity issue really don't bother me... the translator thing is easily explained by the fact that the OTHER races may have translators also. Especially since they've been dealing with alien races far more than humans have.
And exploring things we KNOW happened really would bore me. I want NEW stories about Star Fleet and the Federation. There's alot of history to be made up there. :)
Posted by: iDriveX
Are we ever going to get to figure out what Silik and Future Guy had to do with all of this? Did Silik and his crews' genetic manipulations and future guy's cryptic messages just fall off the map? I'm hoping it actually has to do with this story arc and the writers didn't just go "Well, this is crappy and we have no ending, let's start a new arc and hope they forget?"
Posted by: gchance
All Silik and Future Guy have to do with it is they're from the future... B&B don't have an outline, they're making it up as they go along.
So this week some strange atmospheric disturbance caused my Tivo to record my local UPN affiliate instead of WPIX, and the time it should have been recording WPIX. The description and even listing of the recording showed Enterprise, but it was On-Air With Ryan Seacrest from UPN31 instead... with Jolene Blalock as the guest.
The interesting thing is I've ruled out perhaps one number not getting entered by the remote. The local affiliate is 31 while WPIX I believe is 8121 or something. At least they repeat Enterprise on the weekend.
Greg
Posted by: Redleg
Finally got around to this one tonight, pretty good episode. The whole series for me is a little more evenly "B-" than for most, it seems. My main problem with this one was the ham-fisted time travel. No one likes a good time travel story more than me, but it has to make some kind of sense. In ST:E it is just a mess. (I think I'm still holding a grudge about the time-and-space defying two-way communicator made out of a paper clip and a watch battery.)
When they said they had four hours before the base would be able to transmit, and that there were three life signs, I thought that had MACO away team mission written all over it. Wouldn't they want to capture three Xindi and whatever equipment and data is at the base? I was very surprised when they nuked the site from orbit, to the point that it seemed distractingly out of character.
T'Pol must be suffering some kind of expanse sickness, or as was noted above the effects of that shielding substance. It'll be nice to think they haven't just man-handled that piece of lore.
Posted by: super dave
Is she just happy to see us?
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200307/news-124794-1/320x240.jpg
It is disappointing that next new episode isn't on until April 21st. And looking at the synopsis it's TNG all over again. Don't go see if you don't want to know what happens in the next 4 episodes.
Posted by: Family
OK.... the series is not a Hall of Famer. It has holes in parts of its storyline (though some of the criticism might be because the arc is not completed and things will be explained). But Enerprise is much better than Voyager and this arc has produced some interesting moments. It's not a great series, but I'll give it a B- (like someone else mentioned) and this season has been tons better than the past two. The Xindi/expanse arc has been pretty good IMO.
Posted by: Monolyth710
I just watched it and I was overall very happy with it. It's the best episode in weeks. My one thought: wouldn't Archer want to use the location of the crashed Insectoid ship as leverage while in captivity? He could use it to show the zindi what great lengths they went to ..to spare the hatchlings....
Hmmm wait - of course Archer just ordered the cold blooded killings of the people on the monitoring station on that moon. Never mind!
Not much more to add that hasn't already been touched on here.
6 weeks will feel like a life time!
Posted by: TivownerSrsII
I agree it was one of the better episodes... Photographic quality special effects... somewhat decent acting from Archer... But you KNOW they are going to have some sort of reset... Enterprise J will come back in time and kick some ass.
Posted by: Kylep
Oh my god T'Pol can't act. I mean, I know this isn't news to anyone, but oh my god.
Unless of course the director is saying "Your character is acting like a very bad actress is playing a role she doesn't understand"
And i'm not at all talking about the getting emotional stuff... But you guys saw the show, you know what I'm talking about.
Posted by: jones07
She's OK for a model/TV actress. I mean, I seen worst from model/actresses in the past. But I'm bias, Jolene Blalock/T'Pol is my favorite cast member on the show
And she must not be "That" bad. :)
She won Saturn's Best TV Supporting Actress Award
http://www.geocities.com/jolene_bla...002archives.htm
Posted by: RGM1138
Well, it seems as if our pals have gotten themselves into quite a pickle.
Bullwinkle: "Well, I guess I'll take on the suicide mission and deliver
this bomb myself."
Rocky: "Gee, Bullwinkle, I don't want you to die. Couldn't you ask for
volunteers?"
Tune in next time as Bullwinkle says: "Hey, Rocky. Wanna see me pull a rabbit outa my hat?"
Oh, come on. The Cap'n never leaves the ship. (Of course, in Trek Universe, they didn't learn that until TNG).
Imagine the Commanding Officer of a destroyer steaming into the Pacific after Pearl Harbor saying:" Okay, Ensign. Strap those explosives to my ass and drop me overboard when we reach Tokyo."
Okay, dopey writing and all aside, how do our heroes survive?
A. The Vulcans and/or the Blue Skins charge in to the rescue.
B. The 'Noid Xindi rebel and overthrow the mutant Xindi.
3. Bobby Ewing (or T'Pol) jumps out of the shower, revealing this whole season to be a dream.
Regardless, we may have seen the last of the NX-01. That boat is so Swiss Cheesed, even a dry dock couldn't save it.
I can't wait to see how they write themselves out of this hole.
Bob
Posted by: jones07
quote:
Originally posted by RGM1138
I can't wait to see how they write themselves out of this hole.
Bob
Same Trek time. Same Trek channels :p
Posted by: JYoung
quote:
Originally posted by jones07
She's OK for a model/TV actress. I mean, I seen worst from model/actresses in the past. But I'm bias, Jolene Blalock/T'Pol is my favorite cast member on the show
And she must not be "That" bad. :)
She won Saturn's Best TV Supporting Actress Award
http://www.geocities.com/jolene_bla...002archives.htm
As someone who used to be a member of The Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy & Horror Films and vote on the Saturn Awards, that doesn't surprise me one bit.
I mean, they nominated Kristin Kreuk this year.
Posted by: TonyD79
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
However, in TNG there's that episode where Picard pretends to be a mercenary on that ship and there's a Vulcan onboard named T'Pol.
Not the same one of course.
Is that possible? I thought that Vulcans NEVER repeat a name (or is that just men's names?).
Posted by: ccwf
quote:
Originally posted by RGM1138
Bullwinkle: "Well, I guess I'll take on the suicide mission and deliver
this bomb myself."
If this were the Geneshaft series, the captain would have been executed for trying to put himself on a suicide mission. ;)
Posted by: swizzlest
quote:
Originally posted by Redleg
When they said they had four hours before the base would be able to transmit, and that there were three life signs, I thought that had MACO away team mission written all over it. Wouldn't they want to capture three Xindi and whatever equipment and data is at the base? I was very surprised when they nuked the site from orbit, to the point that it seemed distractingly out of character.
I just wanted to point out that I think this is a great point. If Archer is supposed to be thinking and coming across like a real military man, than it becomes an even better point.
Either way, there's lots of points involved.
Posted by: lordrichter
quote:
Originally posted by swizzlest
I just wanted to point out that I think this is a great point. If Archer is supposed to be thinking and coming across like a real military man, than it becomes an even better point.
Nah. Who wants to run down to an observation post and grab the telescope and bring the peepers back to jail? Either way, going there isn't likely to yield anything more than 3 untalkative prisoners and the people on the base will still be missed when they do not report in.
The stupid part of that whole situation is the idea that they have a grid of thousands of satellites that are so complex that they compensate when one goes missing but they have a moon monitoring station outside of the grid that is out of contact for 4 hours. That's sort of like buying an expensive alarm system and then hiring a security guard to walk around the outside of the building with no radio or telephone.
And, since this was a B&B action flick (long on action, short on brains), when was the last time a security patrol told an intruder to get back to their ship and then let the intruder setup a 20 minute search pattern over restricted space, then let it out unchallenged, then let it back in unchallenged until it gets to it's destination?
We know Hoshi does the universal translator programming, we saw her doing it for the Insectoid stuff. The Reptilian and Primate one works so well that they rarely need subtitles because they sound like they are speaking perfect English. So, why the waste of time with it on the way in the first time? We could have had another 20 seconds of main plot.
Mayweather is a good teacher. He bounced off Enterprise in the first 30 seconds after launch but Archer flew like he was a seasoned veteran.
I gave it a B. Lacked some common sense details, the dog did an outstanding job this episode, always fun when the ship gets beaten up.
Posted by: jamesbobo
I was all set to watch this episode Sunday night (I have conflicts on Wednesday). Usually it's on at 7pm, but guide data had a Sinbad movie on at that time and Enterprise on at 9pm. As it turns out, I recorded the last half of the movie, missing Enterprise which was probably on it's usual time. Now I'll have to wait for the episode to be repeated, probably just before the next new episode in April.
And I just checked Zap2it which also lists Enterprise for 9pm 3/7. How many other people in the NY area missed it?
Posted by: loubob57
Archer said he wasn't willing to send anyone else to die. That sure doesn't make him a very good military commander now does it?
Posted by: Talon
Did anyone see the picture of Enterprise J behind Archer and Future Guy when they were talking? Looked pretty wild.
Posted by: davidmin
On T'Pau vs. T'Pol, IIRC B&B were planning to have T'Pau (from TOS) be the female Vulcan on Enterprise, but thought the better of it so changed the character a bit. It was probably to limiting for them.
David
Posted by: Big_Daddy
quote:
Originally posted by Redleg
My main problem with this one was the ham-fisted time travel. No one likes a good time travel story more than me...
And this is nothing like a good time travel story!
Posted by: TreborPugly
1. T'Pol is so bad it hurts. Any human with command training could control their emotions better than she did when sending Archer in.
2. This time-travel thing sucks really bad. If this guy can bring Archer 400 years into the future to tell him that a Xindi is serving on the Enterprise, why not bring a Xindi forward and have a Xindi talk to him and set the record straight???
3. I started saying "reset, reset..." when the Enterprise started taking hits. I'm predicting a dream, or time travel crap, or some such. They can't very well have an Enterprise show without the ship, now can they? And with all that damage, they should lose a significant portion of the crew. If it is time travel, I think he'll have a second chance from the point at which he destroyed the moon base. If it is a dream, then this is all a dream for Archer, after feeling guilty about the moon base.
4. If these "sphere aliens" have the ability to scan possible alternate realities, why not just pick one where they win? This time travel, multiple time lines stuff is just about the worst job I've ever seen for time travel in sci fi.
Treb.
Posted by: RGM1138
quote:
Originally posted by Talon
Did anyone see the picture of Enterprise J behind Archer and Future Guy when they were talking? Looked pretty wild.
Saw it. So did Archer. He took time out from bitching at Daniels to drool over it for a bit. It was as if he'd just seen his first Trans-Am. :)
Bob
Posted by: RGM1138
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
1. T'Pol is so bad it hurts. Any human with command training could control their emotions better than she did when sending Archer in.
2. This time-travel thing sucks really bad. If this guy can bring Archer 400 years into the future to tell him that a Xindi is serving on the Enterprise, why not bring a Xindi forward and have a Xindi talk to him and set the record straight???
3. I started saying "reset, reset..." when the Enterprise started taking hits. I'm predicting a dream, or time travel crap, or some such. They can't very well have an Enterprise show without the ship, now can they? And with all that damage, they should lose a significant portion of the crew. If it is time travel, I think he'll have a second chance from the point at which he destroyed the moon base. If it is a dream, then this is all a dream for Archer, after feeling guilty about the moon base.
4. If these "sphere aliens" have the ability to scan possible alternate realities, why not just pick one where they win? This time travel, multiple time lines stuff is just about the worst job I've ever seen for time travel in sci fi.
Treb.
What do you want? Logic? :)
Bob
Posted by: lachacg
quote:
Originally posted by jamesbobo
And I just checked Zap2it which also lists Enterprise for 9pm 3/7. How many other people in the NY area missed it?
Got me too. I just read the summary on one of the websites to keep up. It always hurts when my TiVo lets me down. :(
FYI: Scifi Wire at scifi.com has some spoilers on T'Pol.
Posted by: Big_Daddy
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
And with all that damage, they should lose a significant portion of the crew.
Actually in one of the space battle explosion scenes I thought I saw the silhouette of a crewman and he was vented into space.
Posted by: RGM1138
Something I missed earlier: Where is it that Future Trekkers and Aliens shop for uniforms, the Village People store?
:)
Bob
Posted by: jones07
quote:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy
Actually in one of the space battle explosion scenes I thought I saw the silhouette of a crewman and he was vented into space.
I counted three crewman taking a space walk in that explosion scene
Posted by: allan
quote:
Originally posted by jones07
I counted three crewman taking a space walk in that explosion scene
I didn't count, but I'm sure there was more than one.
Posted by: Peter000
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
1. T'Pol is so bad it hurts. Any human with command training could control their emotions better than she did when sending Archer in.
Well DUH. ;) Doesn't say that something is wrong with T'Pol? I don't see why folks can't see the obvious... that something more is going on besides bad acting. (I don't think that she's a bad actor at all... I've never had a problem with her character. I've always been able to accept her as a smokin' hot Vulcan. :))
Posted by: lachacg
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
Well DUH. ;) Doesn't say that something is wrong with T'Pol? I don't see why folks can't see the obvious... that something more is going on besides bad acting. (I don't think that she's a bad actor at all... I've never had a problem with her character. I've always been able to accept her as a smokin' hot Vulcan. :))
I think part of the problem is that people are so hyper-critical of Enterprise. T'Pol has been subtley acting out of character for a Vulcan. It gets worse and worse each episode. People should be discussing "What's wrong with T'Pol?"
Instead, people want to believe that the show is bad, and have taken it up as a sport to trash it. So we find people looking at T'Pol and saying "bad acting" and "bad writing" instead of the discussing the characters changes.
Many people's view of the series has now been tainted by all the negativity surrounding it. The people who missed this subtle change and chalked it up to poor writing are going to turn around and blame it on even more poor writing that they weren't led by the nose and shown that there was some offscreen backstory on T'Pol and her changes.
It has gotten so bad (the negativity) that there really is no way for Enterprise to win.
I think in a number of years, people will re-watch the series and appreciate it more. Mind you, I don't think it's the best Trek series ever, but I think it's better than a lot of people give it credit for.
Posted by: allan
quote:
Originally posted by lachacg
I think part of the problem is that people are so hyper-critical of Enterprise. T'Pol has been subtley acting out of character for a Vulcan. It gets worse and worse each episode. People should be discussing "What's wrong with T'Pol?"
Instead, people want to believe that the show is bad, and have taken it up as a sport to trash it. So we find people looking at T'Pol and saying "bad acting" and "bad writing" instead of the discussing the characters changes.
The problem is, there really is serious bad acting & bad writing on this show. So when we see T'Pol acting un-Vulcan, we naturally assume it's more of the same. If there really IS a purpose behind T'Pol's actions, I'll be the first to cheer, but I also won't hesitate to blast them for the bad writing that threw me off.
Posted by: TonyD79
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
4. If these "sphere aliens" have the ability to scan possible alternate realities, why not just pick one where they win?
Isn't that what they are doing?
How else do you "pick" a timeline other than to adjust decisions and events to come to the "right" conclusion?
I'd have to assume that they analyzed all the outcomes, determined that this time is a critical factor in the future they are trying to avoid (or the one they are trying to setup). Probably the one with the least amount of effort and the best chance of success to boot.
Kind of like the old Hitler thing. How would you best stop Hitler from causing the pain he did? Get him just as he takes over Germany or earlier in an alley someplace when he is a nobody?
Posted by: Peter000
quote:
Originally posted by lachacg
Many people's view of the series has now been tainted by all the negativity surrounding it. The people who missed this subtle change and chalked it up to poor writing are going to turn around and blame it on even more poor writing that they weren't led by the nose and shown that there was some offscreen backstory on T'Pol and her changes.
It has gotten so bad (the negativity) that there really is no way for Enterprise to win.
I think in a number of years, people will re-watch the series and appreciate it more. Mind you, I don't think it's the best Trek series ever, but I think it's better than a lot of people give it credit for.
I couldn't agree more! It's the first since TNG that's lasted longer than a season for me. And I realized that lately it's a good kind of Voyager... they're alone in a vast dangerous expanse surrounded by enemies living by their wits and limited resources. Sure the acting is sometimes so-so, but bad acting is virtually a legacy in the Trek universe.
They need a more cohesive plot. And it needs to be more character driven, rather than event driven. Even non Trekkers would get behind it if the characters were interesting had more depth, like "Firefly."
But, like you said, Enterprise is in a no-win situation. Unless they can the current regime and change the attitude of the series. The show needs to be rough, raw and the ship full little flaws like all first generation inventions are.
Posted by: jkeegan
quote:
Originally posted by gchance
The interesting thing is I've ruled out perhaps one number not getting entered by the remote. The local affiliate is 31 while WPIX I believe is 8121 or something. At least they repeat Enterprise on the weekend.
Try changing the remote code for your cable box. I had the same problem - after years of working correctly, one day suddenly my cable box stopped recognizing 6's.. channel 64 wouldn't record (I'd get 4) but 73 recorded fine. When I figured that out I was able to reliably demonstrate that 6 wouldn't be recognized..
I changed the remote code to another remote code for the box, and that fixed it. I think the change was caused by a firmware upgrade that my cable company must have done with my motorola digital cable box.
..Jeff
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy
Actually in one of the space battle explosion scenes I thought I saw the silhouette of a crewman and he was vented into space.
Three.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan
Try changing the remote code for your cable box. I had the same problem - after years of working correctly, one day suddenly my cable box stopped recognizing 6's.. channel 64 wouldn't record (I'd get 4) but 73 recorded fine. When I figured that out I was able to reliably demonstrate that 6 wouldn't be recognized..
I changed the remote code to another remote code for the box, and that fixed it. I think the change was caused by a firmware upgrade that my cable company must have done with my motorola digital cable box.
..Jeff
A bigger problem, for me, is the cable box parental controls. Having em on Tivo does no good because the kids can either use the comcast remote OR walk up to the box and channel up/down. SO Tivo get's hung when something rated R, on any channel, expects a code...
Posted by: ccwf
Make the cable box inaccessible. For example, I believe another poster mentioned sticking it in backwards in an A/V cabinet (i.e., with the controls towards the back panel). If that's not enough, you could get an A/V cabinet with a lock.
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by lachacg
I think part of the problem is that people are so hyper-critical of Enterprise. T'Pol has been subtley acting out of character for a Vulcan. It gets worse and worse each episode. People should be discussing "What's wrong with T'Pol?"
Ain't nothing wrong with T'pol. It's B&B's blatant usage of T&A to acquire ratings (and failing, even worse) that's the issue.
After 3 seasons of any of the other Treks, if a main character said "the Captain isn't coming back" from an away mission, I would be concerned. On this episode, I found myself thinking "Make it so (oh if there truly is a <diety>, make it so)". Color me jaded but there's not a single characrter beyond the doctor that I would miss, if it got red-shirted. ANd I'm fond of the dog...
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
Make the cable box inaccessible. For example, I believe another poster mentioned sticking it in backwards in an A/V cabinet (i.e., with the controls towards the back panel). If that's not enough, you could get an A/V cabinet with a lock.
Not an option. Box, tivo and DVR sit on top of a 47" projection. No room for additional furniture.
Posted by: Peter000
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
Not an option. Box, tivo and DVR sit on top of a 47" projection. No room for additional furniture.
Um... are these posts in the right thread??
Posted by: jhausmann
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
Um... are these posts in the right thread??
Like this post, simply responding to a post where a question/position is posed.
Posted by: ronsch
quote:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy
Actually in one of the space battle explosion scenes I thought I saw the silhouette of a crewman and he was vented into space.
I seem to remember that there were multiple hull breaches with multiple crewmen spilling out each time.
Posted by: ccwf
Multiple hull breaches, but only one that clearly resulted in bodies
Posted by: lordrichter
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
1. T'Pol is so bad it hurts. Any human with command training could control their emotions better than she did when sending Archer in.
The more I watch the show, the more I think that T'Pol is suffering from some condition other than bad acting on the part of Blalock. Remember that while Vulcans are a central part of the Federation, they are not typically central characters in the shows. The most prominent female Vulcan to compare T'Pol to is Savvik (Kirstie Alley/Robin Curtis/Kim Cattrall). That isn't saying much. T'Pol is simply a Vulcan with bad lines and good curves. :) Seriously, Vulcans are typically reserved and not prone to speeches. That has to be a challenge to write for, let alone act well.
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
2. This time-travel thing sucks really bad. If this guy can bring Archer 400 years into the future to tell him that a Xindi is serving on the Enterprise, why not bring a Xindi forward and have a Xindi talk to him and set the record straight???
My theory. Archer is easier to trust with the knowledge earned by time travel and as such there is less chance for unforseen disturbances in the timeline.
The Xindi believe that sometime in the future, humans will wipe them out. The Xindi can see that the humans are technologically inferior. One lone fighting ship from a planet that really has only one fighting ship is hardly a threat. Something has to change for the humans to be an actual threat.
Any time travel interaction with the Xindi would require proof and that would reveal humans with advanced technology. Suddenly the treat assessment of the humans goes up because it is easier to believe that the humans begged, borrowed, or stole advanced tech than it is to believe in time travel.
I think I would stick with Archer if I were Daniels.
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
4. If these "sphere aliens" have the ability to scan possible alternate realities, why not just pick one where they win? This time travel, multiple time lines stuff is just about the worst job I've ever seen for time travel in sci fi.
Heinlein and a handful of TV shows (Sliders, Stargate SG-1) have attempted to operate in a multiple universe setting. Asimov attempted to do alternate realities and time travel in The End of Eternity with questionable success.
The hardest part is keeping the Sci-Fi time travel multiple dimension stuff from making the story trivial, which Enterprise seems to be doing OK with. Star Trek has a long history of abusing time travel to correct or change things directly and has trivialized it on occasion. Kirk made so many trips back in time that, IIRC, it was a joke in a Voyager episode. Unfortunately, undoing some past event is primarily what time travel is used for in Star Trek. To the credit of Enterprise, they are at least making the NOW the past event that needs to be changed.
So, the answer to your question from one time travel buff is that there are a lot of alternate realities and we do not know the extent of the sphere builder technology. Is it easy for them to search alternate realities? How long does it take to compute whether a reality is the one they want? How many favorable realities are there for them? One in an infinite number? A thousand in an infinite number? Billions in an infinite number? Maybe it is easier to locate one that is close and work to change it rather than searching for one they want. Maybe they don't have the time to search enough of the alternate realities trying to find the one they want.
quote:
Originally posted by iDriveX
Are we ever going to get to figure out what Silik and Future Guy had to do with all of this? Did Silik and his crews' genetic manipulations and future guy's cryptic messages just fall off the map?
Let's see. We have the temporal cold war involving the Federation in the future. We don't really know much about what is behind this but the Suliban have it in for Archer and Enterprise but they are really only sock puppets and not much more effective than one, either.
[I never understood this Temporal Cold War thing. It seems to me that such a war would, quite literally, be over before it started. The End.]
Now we have the Xindi who have it in for humans, and while they are sock puppets they seem to be better equipped and more determined than the Suliban. Not very bright, but more determined. (Who takes a test shot at a target with a prototype weapon a year before they can have the production weapon ready?) They are already related by the interest of Daniels, but it could extend beyond that.
The real question on everyone's mind is whether T'Pol is pregnant with Trip's child as part of her experiment with human sexuality. :)
Posted by: crazywater
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
Well DUH. ;) Doesn't say that something is wrong with T'Pol? I don't see why folks can't see the obvious... that something more is going on besides bad acting. (I don't think that she's a bad actor at all... I've never had a problem with her character. I've always been able to accept her as a smokin' hot Vulcan. :))
On another site I read that there is an explanation coming for T'Pol's un-Vulcan like behavior, which probably won't satisfy any of the anti-ENT people since they seem to live to find anything to whine about...I do not have a problem with her behavior at all and I am willing to wait to see what the explanation is, if its what I read then it is 100% plausible...
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
From Star Trek Communicator: Moreover, said Berman, viewers will learn that there is a reason for T'Pol's inexplicable Vulcan emotionalism: apparently she has become addicted to Trellium-D, the substance that can protect humans from Expanse anomalies but caused a shipful of Vulcans to go insane.
Posted by: TracySMiller
quote:
Originally posted by allan
The problem is, there really is serious bad acting & bad writing on this show. So when we see T'Pol acting un-Vulcan, we naturally assume it's more of the same. If there really IS a purpose behind T'Pol's actions, I'll be the first to cheer, but I also won't hesitate to blast them for the bad writing that threw me off.
You think the acting is bad on STE...You should watch TOS and take note of the "acting" of George Takai and Walter Koenig.
Posted by: swifty
Does anyone besides me notice that on the episode list (don't read the descriptions if you don't want spoilers), there are only 23 episodes listed for this season. A normal Star Trek season is 26 episodes long, anyone know what gives? I'd have to do some checking to find out when the last time that happened.
...Either that or UPN is going to run the season into June and doesn't have any information posted about episodes 24-26.
Posted by: lachacg
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
Does anyone besides me notice that on the episode list (don't read the descriptions if you don't want spoilers), there are only 23 episodes listed for this season. A normal Star Trek season is 26 episodes long, anyone know what gives? I'd have to do some checking to find out when the last time that happened.
...Either that or UPN is going to run the season into June and doesn't have any information posted about episodes 24-26.
Some time a few months ago, the was a news article about UPN cutting back on the order for the number of Enterpise episodes, so there are less this season than normal. This led to speculation that Enterprise might be cancelled.
Posted by: Bryanmc
quote:
Originally posted by lordrichter
T'Pol is simply a Vulcan with bad lines and good curves.
That's awesome.
:up:
Posted by: Big_Daddy
quote:
Originally posted by TracySMiller
You think the acting is bad on STE...You should watch TOS and take note of the "acting" of George Takai and Walter Koenig.
Sure, and Shatner's no dramatic actor either. But our standards were lower then....
I still love TOS. Short miniskirts and all.
Posted by: allan
quote:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy
Sure, and Shatner's no dramatic actor either. But our standards were lower then....
I still love TOS. Short miniskirts and all.
TV in general was different. One example of the differences: If Spock acted emotionally, there was a good reason which was revealed in that very episode. Nowdays, they build up plots over an entire season, or even longer. It's quite valid for T'Pol to demonstrate emotional problems that aren't resolved in one or more eps. However, many of us have little confidence in B&B, and we're not sure if they're doing it on purpose, or if it's yet another example of bad writing.
Posted by: jkeegan
quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
Um... are these posts in the right thread??
quote:
Originally posted by jhausmann
Like this post, simply responding to a post where a question/position is posed.
Data: May I ask a question?
Geordi: I think you just did.
Data: Quite correct. Then may I ask another question after this one?
Posted by: SparkleMotion
quote:
Originally posted by lordrichter
The most prominent female Vulcan to compare T'Pol to is Savvik (Kirstie Alley/Robin Curtis/Kim Cattrall). That isn't saying much.
Cattrall never played Saavik.
She was Lt. Valeris. :)
Posted by: jamesbobo
This episode will be repeated on April 14. If you are in NY and missed the Sunday repeat because it was listed at 9pm instead of 7pm here is another chance to record the show. If you record 'first run only' you will have to manually record it.
I don't put the blame on TiVo for this error. Not only did Zap2it have the Sunday show listed at 9pm, but so did the local newspaper. wWOR gave out the wrong information or made a last minute change.
Posted by: cptodd
I was wondering why I missed this episode! I will add it today.
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