TiVo Community Forums Archives - Alias 3/7 (Spoilers)

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Alias 3/7 (Spoilers)
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Posted by: LoadStar

Did anyone get the impression that Ford sponsored this episode? I dunno - something about tonight's episode gave me that impression. It was sort of vague-ish though.

:rolleyes:

I mean REALLY. The dialogue "THERE! The F150!!!" was a bit much, but the tight focus on the namebadge for 3 seconds was just shameless. Then of course for those not watching this on TiVo, there were at least 6 commercials for the friggin' thing, plus a "Sponsored by Ford" card at the end. Ugh.

This episode was a muddled mess... it was supposed to be the same cinematic style as the episode of ER, "Foursquare," showing the episode from different perspectives, but all it did was repeat stuff that didn't need repeating and jumped around so much you really couldn't tell that's what they were trying to do. (Plus, it's my belief that an action series doesn't lend itself to this type of a storytelling device. You need a strong character-driven drama to pull it off.)

Not to mention - was it my clock that was off, or did this episode end really early? (at least we have all new episodes through the end of the season... a bit of a blessing after this train wreck.)

Posted by: cwoody222

I didn't mind the "There! The F150!" It was brief enough for me.

But the repeatedness of this episode was annoying. Wasted screen time. At least they didn't quite yet confirm Sloane is Daddy. I really hope they never do.

Posted by: cmontyburns

I agree -- this was not a strong episode, continuing what has been a very up-and-down season. The Rashomon-like storytelling device was clumsily done, and abandoned at the climax anyway, but it wouldn't have bothered me that much if it weren't so absolutely unnecessary. Even before we got the Lauren-Sark point of view, was there any doubt that the unseen baddies in both cases were them? The bad guys are ALWAYS them! They could have just told the story in linear fashion with all the details from both points of view and omitted the unnecessary retelling of all the minor details, as you mentioned.

The romance angle is seriously damaging the show now. Most of the missions Sydney and Vaughn go on now are compromised in one way or the other by, or at least interrupted for, the two of them making googly eyes at each other. This was a much, much stronger show when Sydney was the main focus and the other characters were defined by her relationships and interaction with them -- they existed within her context, and the show revolved around her. Now that it is more of an ensemble drama that clear focal point is missing and the show has been much weaker as a result. The romance part could add some depth to the storytelling, much as I find Vaughn to be the consummate weenie, but it so frequently makes them look incompetent that I think it has the opposite effect.

That said, I will admit to a bit of a quickened pulse when Vaughn and Lauren confronted each other on the catwalk. It was kind of exciting in spite of everything (or maybe I was just hopeful that Lauren's part of the love triangle was about to be eliminated). And was it just me or did Melissa George look fantastic with the red hair? That might have been my favorite part of the show. (But why did she "do it" with the wig on?)

Posted by: bdowell

Did Quentin Tarantino direct? The re-tell the story from every angle is something he loves (witness Jackie Brown, a flick I really like, but which took that trick on for far too long also).

Posted by: jdfs

Bad episode.

Huge product placement. F150, then they were chasing a Mustang. I didn't see the commercials, but it doesn't surprise me. I guess they were trying to market how easy a Ford can be stolen, and what a great getaway car it makes. Two good reasons to steal a Ford.

A lot of unbelievable things happening. First, the CIA is only sending two people out each mission. Since the missions always fail, shouldn't they send a few more. Second, plasma detector, created in a night no less. Decripting data when 37 % is missing? Yelling "freeze!", instead of shooting at Sark. The convenant counters both operations with the two most recognizable agents (one with a cover to protect) and again only sends two for a mission. The digital storage guy says "we can house up to 300 teraflops" (not sure of the number). Terflops is not storage it stands for trillions of floating operations per second. I would think they would know that. At first I thought this meant he was undercover, but it turns out not.

Rehashing the story only stretched a 35 minute storyline into 42 minutes. Added nothing. The writers must have been on vacation this week and they were working with a skeleton crew.

Posted by: landrumdh

The advert is no worse than it is in any other car chase. Anybody remeber the focus svt episode?!?! Dosen't really bug me though.

While the episode did drag on a little it wasn't THAT bad. Although it would have been nice if the 2nd run through revieled a little more info.

Posted by: cmontyburns

quote:
Originally posted by jdfs
The convenant counters both operations with the two most recognizable agents (one with a cover to protect) and again only sends two for a mission.

Well, Lauren was wearing a wig. :rolleyes: And what's with the CIA disguises when "infiltrating" a civilian business? I know that Jennifer Garner in costume is one of the show's appeals, but it makes no sense when there's no need for her to maintain anything but a background (i.e. "I'm a scientist") cover. And if there were, why wasn't Vaughn in disguise too? Gratuitously gratuitous.

Posted by: LoadStar

quote:
Originally posted by cmontyburns
Well, Lauren was wearing a wig. :rolleyes: And what's with the CIA disguises when "infiltrating" a civilian business? I know that Jennifer Garner in costume is one of the show's appeals, but it makes no sense when there's no need for her to maintain anything but a background (i.e. "I'm a scientist") cover. And if there were, why wasn't Vaughn in disguise too? Gratuitously gratuitous.

Well, that's a better question. Why is it that the women spies are always in a better disguise than the men? The women spies are always in a wig, the guys are lucky to get a change of outfits. :)

Posted by: vertigo235

The "ad" didn't bother me, although it was obvious. This type of stuff is not going away, and will probably be mainstream in the future. I mean it IS free....

I do get pissed when I see comercials at the movie theater though, but thats a different story!

Posted by: LoadStar

I don't care if they have product placement. That's fine - it's a part of every day life to have recognizable brands. It bugs me when they make it unnaturally obvious, when the scene turns into a commercial, that's where it gets stupid. I don't want to watch an infomercial, I want to watch a show.

Case in point - American Idol is heavily branded by Coca Cola - the judges all drink out of Coca Cola cups, and on occasion they mention the Coca Cola Red Room. That's fine with me, I don't mind. It doesn't detract from the show. This, however, when they unnaturally stuck in the brand name into dialog and made a point to show an insert of the name badge... that's just wasted excess... and it's the same gripe that I had when they did the Ford Focus commercial in the middle of an episode of Alias last season.

All I ask is that they make it flow naturally. Do: feature the truck. Don't: feature the name badge. Do: say "Quick, get in the truck!" Don't: say "Quick, get in the All New Ford F150!" See what I mean?

Posted by: vertigo235

I think you're making a big deal out of nothing, because it could have been much worse.

I laughed at the "The F-150!" line, and the emblem. But that would have been it for me... no big deal.

But look at what's going on right now, we're still talking about it. So the ad was much more successfull than you think, and that's all they care about. They don't care that you're annoyed, so get over it :D They want you to keep bringing it up here in this forum each time they do a stunt like that.

Posted by: GoodN

I switched over to "Arrested Development" about halfway through the episode, and couldn't figure out why I was watching the same scenes over again when I came back. That storytelling device was way over my head!

And the "F-150" bit could have been more subtle, but that's not what Ford pays for. And I'm afraid we all better get used to more pop-ups during shows.

Posted by: laria

I found the F-150 thing a little annoying, too. Between that and the bad guys driving the Mustang, I commented to my SO that I was surprised that the TV Announcer Voice Guy didn't come on to say over the whole scene, "This parking garage chase scene, brought to you by Ford".

Posted by: boywaja

quote:
Originally posted by jdfs
Bad episode.

Huge product placement. F150, then they were chasing a Mustang. I didn't see the commercials, but it doesn't surprise me. I guess they were trying to market how easy a Ford can be stolen, and what a great getaway car it makes. Two good reasons to steal a Ford.

so you think any car's security system would slow down a field trained operative of the CIA?

on the same note, is the criminal not going to know the mustang is a performance car? I think highlighting a cars performance and agility is a good commerical. Particularly in the context of entertainment rather than a 30 second timeout from what I'd rather be watching.

I suppose you're still complaining about the movie bullet also. Gee I guess that was a 2 hour commercial for the dodge charger. Those bastards. I want my money back.

I know you are trying to be funny but you are failing miserably

Posted by: Rcrew

As for the F150 ad, isn't an ad supposed to make us want to buy the product? So if the sports car (mustang?) could muscle it's way out of the parking lot, but the 1/2 ton F150 couldn't... yeah, give me one of those wossie trucks, please! :rolleyes:

Posted by: rwhitlow

Right before it flashed back, I paused and got to get something to drink and came back. Used a widely known easter egg feature and thought that I must have gotten an update and and the program was back at the beginning.

I spent a good 5 minutes searching around thinking I had somehow repeated what I had already seen...then I got to call myself a knucklehead when I realized the scenes were at different angles....

Actually kind of funny. I enjoyed the episode after that....as for advertising...I think the next car chase will have a city of nothing but Ford vehicles...maybe they'll work in the 2005 Mustang and GT. That would be a cool car chase...with cars we can't even get yet!

Posted by: DancnDude

I initially thought I might have accidentially rewound through the commercials or something when the first rehash started. Then I finally realized the POV change.

I did however like the part where Vaugn almost unmasked Lauren. I also think Sloane is playing the therapist and he'll somehow get her to reveal information about Syd or Jack to him. It's interesting that he doesn't really know that he is Syd's father, or at least that is what he told the therapist.

Posted by: jennstall

quote:
Originally posted by GoodN
I switched over to "Arrested Development" about halfway through the episode, and couldn't figure out why I was watching the same scenes over again when I came back.

After ff'ing through commercials only to find the same scene replaying I wondered if I'd rewound by accident. It took me a bit to realize what they were doing because it took SO LONG to get to the new information. They really mishandled this. It should have been obvious from the get go that it was from a different pov.

Posted by: Azlen

I find it somewhat ironic that the F-150 ad is being discussed in a Tivo forum considering its stuff like Tivo that is causing programmers and advertisers to do that sort of thing.

Posted by: cpalma

I just LMAO at the "There, the Ford F150" line!! After watching ER a few weeks ago and the blatant product placement during the MRI, nothing will suprise me ever again.

OK, I'm so glad to see others confused by the retelling of the story. Forget creative story telling, it was just lazy writing IMO. There was nothing that couldn't have been incorporated into the story the first time it aired.

LMAO at those who switched channels or paused at that point. We watched it live and were confused! I can't imagine what you thought.

Is anyone else thrilled that Patricia Wettig is back on television. Great actress! I guess nepotism is finally paying off (I only wish she had used it earlier)---she is the wife to Ken Olin (Exec. Producer). I can really see Sloane and her getting into a relationship (of sorts).

One last thought...there is a plasma bomb on board this freighter. How many guards did they have to go through?????????? One freakin security guard to guard a plasma bomb? OK, if I can suspend my belief that a Ford F-150 can make turns like a mustang in a parking garage, then I guess I can buy that! Uh huh.

Posted by: KLB

I took the "There, the F-150..." line to mean that she was telling Vaughn to steal that specific truck so they could chase the bad guys. If were the vehicle they came in she would have just said " let's go.." (or something similar).

I took this also to mean that F-150s are easy to steal since it took Vaughn like 2 seconds to get it started and pull out.

Well, I was actually thinking about buying a Ford F-150 and giving them my hard earned, product placement influenced, money but this showed me that I wouldn't want CIA agents being able to steal my Ford Brand F-150 (tm) so easily so I will not be buying one.

;)

Posted by: Corey140

quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
As for the F150 ad, isn't an ad supposed to make us want to buy the product? So if the sports car (mustang?) could muscle it's way out of the parking lot, but the 1/2 ton F150 couldn't... yeah, give me one of those wossie trucks, please! :rolleyes:

They didn't want to damage the Ford Focus turning into the garage. I don't understand why he didn't push that pos out of the way like the Mustang did the Accord.

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by cpalma
Is anyone else thrilled that Patricia Wettig is back on television.

I've liked her since watching 30 Something. But HFC, what was with that dress she wore to dinner. Ok, I could understand her possibly wanting to wear something seductive, but that dress just looked lopsided, unevenly cut, and wasn't flattering at all.

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by Corey140
I don't understand why he didn't push that pos out of the way like the Mustang did the Accord.

Exactly my point. We're left to believe the Mustang could push it's way out with no damage, but the truck couldn't.

Posted by: laria

quote:
Originally posted by Corey140
They didn't want to damage the Ford Focus turning into the garage. I don't understand why he didn't push that pos out of the way like the Mustang did the Accord.

I think they were concerned about injuring the passengers in the car if they pushed it out of the way. The Accord got creamed pretty good after it got pushed into the traffic.

Posted by: Corey140

quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
Exactly my point. We're left to believe the Mustang could push it's way out with no damage, but the truck couldn't.

You don't hurt family members :p ;). The Accord is the enemy!

Posted by: grecorj

quote:
Originally posted by cmontyburns
The Rashomon-like storytelling device was clumsily done, and abandoned at the climax anyway, but it wouldn't have bothered me that much if it weren't so absolutely unnecessary.

Clumsy indeed.

I said to my wife, "Boy, I miss Boomtown!".

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Lauren (Sark, actually) is willing to kill people to make her escape. Syd (Vaughn, actually) isn't willing to kill people to catch Lauren (although had they known it was Lauren, they might have reconsidered! :)).

Is it me, or is Lauren exactly the same as Syd now? Only evil. And, thus, a little more fun...I've always hated the character, but now that she's not pretending to be a meek little wimp all the time, I'm starting to like her.

Posted by: WinBear

Yes, it seems like Lauren is now the Alias/undercover babe with lots of disguises, especially now that we've resolved the Julia Thorne storyline.

Posted by: Peter000

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Is it me, or is Lauren exactly the same as Syd now? Only evil. And, thus, a little more fun...I've always hated the character, but now that she's not pretending to be a meek little wimp all the time, I'm starting to like her.

Yeah, I'm liking her has a bad guy as well. She looked really good in red hair, too. :)

I liked last nights episode, generally. I'm a sucker for showing stories through different perspectives, though. They didn't do it as well as I've seen on other shows, but I didn't have any trouble following it once I realized what was going on. It didn't help that I stopped watching and had to figure out where to pick the show up again on my TiVo recording. :)

I'm looking forward to more evil Lauren.

Posted by: DreadPirateRob

I'm a sucker for Evil Lauren in a black bra.... more please!!!

As others have said, the Rashomon storyline was really poorly done - I guess it was just me, but I didn't notice the different camera angles until the new info was revealed. It seemed like they just used the exact same footage of the scenes we had already seen. Seemed to me like the writers were all on vacation this week...

Posted by: dimented

Concerning evil Lauren. I looked at my wife while we were watching and said "Lauren is the antiSydney." I cannot wait to see the two of them in a big fight scene. You know we are headed there eventually.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

As for the Rashomon bit, it was telegraphed pretty clearly when Syd and Lauren had their heated discussion in tha background. I thought to myself, "Hmm, I guess they'll come back to that." If I'd been thinking, I probably would have realized exactly what was going to happen. But I try not to think too much when watching Alias--tends to take too much of the fun out of it. :D

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Is it me, or is Lauren exactly the same as Syd now? Only evil.

Actually paused the episode to make that exact remark to my GF last night.

Posted by: jwjody

I thought this was one of, if not the best, episode this season. I didn't like the split story telling though.

I'm curious if Sloane is interested in the Dr. or if this is one of his elaborate plans.

I was really on the edge of my seat when Vaughn had his wife at gunpoint. Then I think she was genuinely upset when Vaughn threw his gun down.

J

Posted by: Rcrew

I'm in the camp that didn't like the split story mode. I think there were more effective ways to get the dual story out.

As for Vaughn holding a gun on Loren, it was dramatic enough without having Vaughn repeat the same line, and having Loren make the same movement of her hands toward the mask before and after the commercial break. Did they think I was going to forget what just happened after a moment or two of commercials (ok, ok, it was just a flash with TiVo FF :D ). :rolleyes:

Agreed jw, it was a good episode, all 23 minutes or so... (subtractions for the split time). I'm just hoping we get more per episode beginning this week.

Posted by: mask2343

Question: Who did Ford have to pay to get the advertisement: ABC or Alias (the studio who produces it)?

Posted by: markz

quote:
Originally posted by dimented
Concerning evil Lauren. I looked at my wife while we were watching and said "Lauren is the antiSydney." I cannot wait to see the two of them in a big fight scene. You know we are headed there eventually.

Hopefully they'll both be in underware and red wigs! :D

Posted by: wijamie

A couple thoughts:

1. Lauren was so close to getting caught (in the parking garage and in the almost unmasking). I guess I couldn't understand why she'd be out on these missions knowing she'd be confronting Vaughn and Sydney and could so easily blow her cover. Although, I was almost convinced she'd finally be unmasked. I wonder how long they'll go before Vaughn finds out (season finale, maybe?).

2. Maybe I'm the only one who noticed this, but didn't the bedroom scene with Vaughn getting ready to go out for a jog seem completely redone the second time and not just from a different angle? Here's how I suspected this: The first time Vaughn leaned over and kissed Lauren, the kiss was so loud I actually noticed it and thought it was overacting. But then the second time through the scene, Vaughn kisses her and the kiss makes no sound. Same shot, different sound effects? Or different take altogether?

Posted by: David Platt

I suspect it was a different take. A lot of directors like to use slightly different takes when using this storytelling technique. Their reasoning is that since we're effectively seeing the scene from a different character's point of view, and everybody sees and remembers things slightly differently, it makes sense to use different takes.

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by wijamie
A couple thoughts:

1. Lauren was so close to getting caught (in the parking garage and in the almost unmasking). I guess I couldn't understand why she'd be out on these missions knowing she'd be confronting Vaughn and Sydney and could so easily blow her cover.

I think the inference to take from this is that she considers herself so superior that she won't get caught. In the end, that's what will ultimately trip her up too...

Posted by: Peter000

quote:
Originally posted by wijamie
2. Maybe I'm the only one who noticed this, but didn't the bedroom scene with Vaughn getting ready to go out for a jog seem completely redone the second time and not just from a different angle? Here's how I suspected this: The first time Vaughn leaned over and kissed Lauren, the kiss was so loud I actually noticed it and thought it was overacting. But then the second time through the scene, Vaughn kisses her and the kiss makes no sound. Same shot, different sound effects? Or different take altogether?

That was probably the sound guy's screw up at the post production place. Usually they do a Foley run through the program where they put in all of the sound effects for clothing and bedsheets rustling, drinking sounds, kisses, handshakes and other body sounds that aren't picked up or need 'sweetening.' Another big effect they do are footsteps.

Anyway, if the sound doesn't match between the scenes, either they missed it, or didn't mix it properly.

Posted by: devdogaz

The Ford bit was a little overdone, but didn't bother me. THe storytelling was horrible though. I love the non-sequential storytelling techniques but this one was very poorly done. Instead of giving us the same scene from a different point of view, much of it was simply the exact same scene. LAZY!!

Posted by: Rcrew

If they were going to do something different, and a copy too, I'd have rather seen a split screen with interlaced dialogue, or delayed action with fades to grey.

For example with Vaughn and Lauren, split the screen and have him continue on, but do the phone call on half.

Or with Syd and Lauren having their separate conversation, lace it with the other one.

We've had to think fast to keep up with some of the plots and action in this show before. There was certainly a better, snappier way to do the dual stories.

Posted by: Tivos1

The "F150" plug could be the point this show jumped the shark. Talk about suspension of "suspension of disbelief".

Notice how Jack had disappeared for the last half of the show. I was hoping the Plasma device was an elaborate ruse by him to flush out the CIA mole. Now that would have been an Alias ending.

Posted by: jkeegan

Yeah I thought that too - especially with the whole "I'll interview you next" "no I can't I'm busy" "ok no problem you instead" exchange.

Posted by: bicker

quote:
Originally posted by KLB
I took this also to mean that F-150s are easy to steal since it took Vaughn like 2 seconds to get it started and pull out.

That's what I took away from it, as well. I wonder if that was Ford's intent.

Posted by: Mike20878

Does anyone think there's more to Weiss and Lauren's nasty looks (nastier on Lauren's part) at the end of the two scenes where they are talking to Vaugh and Sidney, respectively? I didn't really notice it the first time around and caught it on the replay.

Mike

Posted by: jkeegan

Yeah, caught that - my guess is he's becoming suspicious of her, and maybe that'll come into play when this investigation continues..

It's getting good again, where we look forward to future episodes.. Anyone still remember what that was like, back in Phase One? :)

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by Mike20878
Does anyone think there's more to Weiss and Lauren's nasty looks (nastier on Lauren's part) ...

I don't recall, I'll have to take a re-look!

But a quick thought, A) Vaughn probably wouldn't be able to kill her, B) Syd might not be able to either ... C) Perfect plot line for Weiss to step up and do the deed!

Posted by: ronsch

I have to admit I was taken in by the split story. I thought for a minute that ABC had screwed up and was rebroadcasting the previous segment and that I was going to miss the end because the recording wasn't padded!

On the other hand, I didn't believe for a minute that Lauren was going to get unmasked. I knew it was only a matter of time before Sark intervened.

Posted by: jwjody

quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
I don't recall, I'll have to take a re-look!

But a quick thought, A) Vaughn probably wouldn't be able to kill her, B) Syd might not be able to either ... C) Perfect plot line for Weiss to step up and do the deed!

I don't think Vaughn could either. But I believe Syd would take her. After Syd punched her in that ep, I believe Syd has a lot more for her.

J

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
But I believe Syd would take her. After Syd punched her in that ep, I believe Syd has a lot more for her.

J

That was my first thought too. But then I wondered if Syd would worry what Vaughn would think, or that he might never quite forgive Syd for the act.

Posted by: jwjody

quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
That was my first thought too. But then I wondered if Syd would worry what Vaughn would think, or that he might never quite forgive Syd for the act.

Very true.

They at least need to have it out like Syd and Evil Francie at the end of last season.

J

Posted by: beast98

quote:
Clumsy indeed.

I said to my wife, "Boy, I miss Boomtown!".

My sentiments exactly!!

The director seemed to try to do what Boomtown did so well. But instead it looked too similar to what had happened earlier. Boomtown used obviously different camera angles or a different shade (like B&W)

I wish I'd taped all the Boomtowns, the best show in the last three years that apparently only TiVo users liked.

As an aside, Alias is about to lose me. They ended up fouling up a good premise from their first season. :(

Posted by: Hunter Green

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
As for the Rashomon bit, it was telegraphed pretty clearly when Syd and Lauren had their heated discussion in tha background. I thought to myself, "Hmm, I guess they'll come back to that."

I thought so too. In fact, the moment that Sydney and Vaughn look at each other, I was reminded of an episode of (don't laugh at me) Mad About You that used the same techniques. (Set at Fran's party, Paul almost gets a meeting with a network executive, Jamie runs into Alan.)

I didn't mind the technique, but I did find it poorly executed here. More repetition than was necessary. It makes the whole techique look worse than it has to, because done well, it can be very effective. And it's certainly no more gimmicky, and less overused, than the "last scene first, then cut to '48 hours earlier'" thing we've seen on Alias and so many other shows, so many times. (For a while it seemed like the X-Files had forgotten how to write a story any other way.)

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by grecorj
Clumsy indeed.

I said to my wife, "Boy, I miss Boomtown!".

Me too!

Of course, as others have already said, they just didn't execute it very well. The viewer should not be left wondering whether there was some sort of splicing error with the tape. Either use different angles, shorter segments of the scenes, or something to distinguish it from the first time we saw it.

And I don't know why people are so bothered by the product placements. Sure, it was obvious, but why is it unrealistic? I think it's more unrealistic to never mention brand names of things, or to always have your can of soda turned so that you can't see the label, even though it's obvious from the colors. Someone has to pay to put these shows on the air, if we're avoiding the 15 minutes of commercials, they obviously have no choice but to get their messages in the remaining 45 minutes.