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Sopranos - 3-7-2004 *spoilers*
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Posted by: bdowell
Man, I've missed this show!!
Even at it's worst, it's still one of HBO's best.
I had read a few things about the premiere before hand, one of which mentioned the opening sequence change. Meadow coming up and running over the paper versus Tony picking it up in his robe. Comments from those that provided that info was it was meant to signal a break in business at usual at Tony Soprano's house.
Had to love the reference to Pine Barrens. Also had to love Chrissy and Pauly diggin' at each other over picking up tabs. Their getting themselves into potential trouble with the waiter was great too. Pauly to the rescue there.
The dream sequence with Melfi was interesting. It went a different direction than I expected, which made it all the better.
Carmine's health brings up possibilities for more strife, with Johnny Sack still mad at Tony for not backing him up earlier.
All told, the start of a good (hopefully) season.
Posted by: Graymalkin
That was Dr. Melfi's dream, right? She's hot.
Posted by: pjenkins
yes, it was Melfi's dream, threw us for a good laugh as well.
Great episode, I really missed this show :)
Posted by: LooseWiring
After seeing tonight's episode now I realize wh they had such a hard time passing out raises.
HBO has brought in some HUGE names for supporting cast. Robery Logia, Steve Bushemi, and half the other movie mobsters I've ever seen.
This is going to be an exceptional season.
Oh, and it's been 18 months or more, why does AJ still suck so much on the drums. Sure, he can keep a beat but it was sloppy and all over the place.
Posted by: TeeSee
I thought it was kind of weak (for The Sopranos) myself. I did like the Paulie/Chris story line, though.
The thing about the bear didn't seem to go any place. Maybe it's symbolism or something. Or maybe it introduces Carmela's new love interest, the animal control guy. I don't know.
Posted by: midas
I thought it was pretty good. The interaction of Pauly and Chris was classic Sopranos. And the final scene with Melfi and Tony was very well done. Tony goes from smitten to threatening to whack job in no time at all. Very strong acting in that scene.
Posted by: cptodd
I have not seen the episode yet but let me ask anyone who potentially cares to reply: would you date Carmela Soroprano, the wife (though separated she may be) of Tony Soroprano?
Posted by: TomK
quote:
Originally posted by cptodd
I have not seen the episode yet but let me ask anyone who potentially cares to reply: would you date Carmela Soroprano, the wife (though separated she may be) of Tony Soroprano?
We know she's the wife of a mafia boss but who else really knows that? Does the animal control guy know that?
Posted by: Family
I thought this was a pretty solid opening episode... much better format than most of last season. The show is best when the boys are together and there is interaction between Melfi and Tony. I thought the bear was great.... Jr crying for Mommy busted me up. I liked that Tony went back home to where he was accepted after Melfi rejected him and decided to clean up his own mess caused by the duck food. These people are priceless.... they are like kids without any anger control. Tony goes off on Melfi after romancing her (he showed the real other Tony) and Chris and Paulie killing the waiter over nothing. The writers made the right move with Melfi ignoring her physical instincts. Someone has to be a thoughtful adult to keep this real.
Posted by: SammyTerry
quote:
Originally posted by bdowell
Carmine's health brings up possibilities for more strife, with Johnny Sack still mad at Tony for not backing him up earlier.
"What do you want an apology, an effin Whitman sampler?"
Posted by: farleyruskz
I can't believe Janice and Bobby are apparently married now (I assume that's why she "lost" her wedding ring during the Sunday dinner scene - to fill us in on that little tidbit?). The poor guy :(
Posted by: Redleg
quote:
Originally posted by LooseWiring
Oh, and it's been 18 months or more
Is this the correct amount of elapsed time since Whitecaps? Was that from an interview, or did they say so in the show? I was trying to get a feel for that, and the only thing that stood out was Janice's marriage (which would presumably consume months of planning etc.). I'll rewatch it this week as I dub it to the DVDR to look for the time cues.
I was a little disappointed that for all the excitement from the trailers turned out to be about a wandering bear (ahem :) ). Still a good episode, though.
Posted by: jeff125va
I think it must have been extremely shocking to Tony to be rejected like that. And I think even more disturbing to him was to hear Dr. Melfi state her disapproval of the way he lives his life. IIRC, his panic attacks stemmed at least partially from his guilt about the harm he's done to people, which up until then she'd pretty much kept her feelings about to herself.
Robert Loggia seemed to have aged quite a bit since I'd seen him last. He was extremely familiar, especially his voice, but if it weren't for his voice I wouldn't have been sure it was he.
Can someone please refresh my memory on what happened with leaving Johnny Sack out of the loop on the plot to whack whoever it was (IIRC Carmine?)? It didn't actually happen, right? (obviously not if it was actually Carmine).
I thought the bear thing was just something to keep Tony linked to the rest of the family, that he was still protecting them. I have a feeling there's some symbolism to the bear though, like there was with the ducks. They could have come up with any number of threats for Tony to protect them from.
Overall I thought it was a good episode. A lot of "setup" stuff for future episodes, but they did seem to resolve (for now at least) the Paulie/Chrissy spat and Tony's pursuit of Dr. Melfi. I'm sure they're not gone for good, but at least we got some resolution that wasn't dragged out to another week.
And no, I'd never date Tony Soprano's ex-wife if I had any idea who she was, which I'm sure most people in the fictional North Jersey area do, or at least know someone who knows.
I liked the little thing they did before the show started with the characters from all the HBO original series together, pretty cool. I think they've done something like that before, but I don't think there was as much dialogue. Oh and Sopranos looks great in HD, was worth watching it live.
Posted by: markp99
I hope the story line with Tony and Melfi is a short one...though I fear this might be a primary thread this season.
Even my wife said, "why does she talk like that?"
Bracco delivers her lines so slowly, unnaturally and unbelievably. I can not get past seeing the actress and not the character. With all the other excellent characters/charicatures (:)), she really bugs me!
Do you she's gonna get whacked?? I do!
Posted by: Redleg
quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
Can someone please refresh my memory on what happened with leaving Johnny Sack out of the loop on the plot to whack whoever it was (IIRC Carmine?)? It didn't actually happen, right? (obviously not if it was actually Carmine).
Johnny appproached Tony about whacking Carmine, and Tony said OK... they even had guys hired to do the hit. Then at the last minute, Tony changed his mind and called it off (and had the hit men whacked instead). Johnny was not pleased.
Posted by: dschwab
Thought it was a pretty good episode, slower than usual but that's to be expected in an opener where they're setting-up the season. Can't wait to see Buscemi integrated into the show, and it will be interesting to see how the NY family thing plays out now that Johnny Sack has an opening with Carmine in bad health.
Posted by: pmyers
I was just happy to have the show back on the air. I am wondering at what point the boss's son would start taking part in the family biz....AJ has to be like 16-17 by now.
Posted by: Jon J
quote:
Originally posted by markp99
Bracco delivers her lines so slowly, unnaturally and unbelievably.
She actually talks like that offscreen.
Posted by: cptodd
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
We know she's the wife of a mafia boss but who else really knows that? Does the animal control guy know that?
Actually, there have been a few episodes where if the person did not know someone else clued them into who Tony was. There were a couple of episodes where his "exploits" have been chronicled in the local newspaper as well (could TV news be far behind?). Even Baby Bing found out on some website that his sister showed him.
Posted by: cbordman
Tony would never shoot that bear. The whole series started out with Tony being caring and concerned with the ducks. Then he was so concerned with the horse. He always seems to have a soft spot for the animals.
Posted by: Weezoh
quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
I thought the bear thing was just something to keep Tony linked to the rest of the family, that he was still protecting them. I have a feeling there's some symbolism to the bear though, like there was with the ducks. They could have come up with any number of threats for Tony to protect them from.
Maybe the bear was a symbol for the return of The Russian. or else maybe Tony's going to join a Carnivale. . .
Posted by: daperlman
quote:
Originally posted by cbordman
Tony would never shoot that bear. The whole series started out with Tony being caring and concerned with the ducks. Then he was so concerned with the horse. He always seems to have a soft spot for the animals.
If he did... could you imagine the police showing up. So you just happen to be sitting here with an AK-47 assualt rifle?
Posted by: pmyers
And when the first mentioned a "rifle" was anybody thinking of a AK-47? I sure wasn't. And why the heck would you need a grenade?
Posted by: midas
quote:
Originally posted by Weezoh
Maybe the bear was a symbol for the return of The Russian. or else maybe Tony's going to join a Carnivale. . .
It's a symbol that Tony's loaded for bear this year.
Posted by: daperlman
quote:
Originally posted by midas
It's a symbol that Tony's loaded for bear this year.
Usually animals invading human dwellings is a symbol of over-development.
Posted by: edrock200
I'm just happy to see Steve Bushemi joining the cast...he's great.
Posted by: zaknafein
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
I was just happy to have the show back on the air. I am wondering at what point the boss's son would start taking part in the family biz....AJ has to be like 16-17 by now.
Older than that. Remember Carmella seying he's a college student now? He's probably 18 or 19.
Posted by: markp99
I think AJ's tutor was a college student refernced by Carmella.
Posted by: pmyers
quote:
Originally posted by markp99
I think AJ's tutor was a college student refernced by Carmella.
I believe you are correct. I'm almost positive AJ is still in high school.
Posted by: LlamaLarry
Yeah the college kid was the SAT tutor - which other than the student having taken the SAT I don't know why you would pay a person to help you prepare for the SAT.
The bear is drawn by the rotten duck food, so something that Tony loves has gone bad and brings danger close to home. :::shrug:::
Why the shot of the grenade? Did Janice ever find her ring? Could Chris' fiance try any harder to look like a mole? Paulie has a short fuse so why would Chris antagonize him so? The whole crew was confused when Tony hit Ralph why would Chris and Paulie be "allowed" to duke it out?
Posted by: ADG
Am I the only one who finds Robert Iler extremely irritating? I guess it's related to the problem he had a couple of years ago and the way he handled himself when apprehended ("You can't arrest me, I'm a millionaire"), but every time AJ comes on screen I'm completely turned off.
Posted by: ADG
BTW, re the Black Bear issue - it actually is a problem in New Jersey. They are even considering a "black bear hunting season" this year, which would be the first in over a decade.
Posted by: KRS
"Meteor? They were all meat eaters."
"He's a little light in the Timberlands."
I think that the bear is a symbol too - perhaps threatening Tony's money that is/was hidden in the duck food. I thought for sure he would move it right away, but he hardly seemed concerned.
Who was the woman Tony was with while watching Prince of Tides (with the fake nails)? Was that Ralphie's ex?
Wouldn't you think that a mobster would want to drive a car that would blend in a little? Christopher trades his Range Rover in for a Hummer? WTF?
Posted by: Knative
A question about the tipping aspect of the show - here in Fla most restaurants will automatically add an 18% gratuity for parties over eight or so people. Is this not done in NJ, or was it just creative license to give Paulie & Chris something to "bond" over?
While I'm only semi-serious I am now wondering.
Posted by: zaknafein
quote:
Originally posted by markp99
I think AJ's tutor was a college student refernced by Carmella.
You're probably right, I must have misunderstood that exchange.
quote:
Originally posted by Knative
A question about the tipping aspect of the show - here in Fla most restaurants will automatically add an 18% gratuity for parties over eight or so people. Is this not done in NJ, or was it just creative license to give Paulie & Chris something to "bond" over?
While I'm only semi-serious I am now wondering.
That's been the norm at pretty much any restuarant I've ever been to. I'm guess creative license.
Posted by: daperlman
quote:
Originally posted by KRS
Who was the woman Tony was with while watching Prince of Tides (with the fake nails)? Was that Ralphie's ex?
WTF?
She is the neighbor's daughter or niece or something. Tony noticed her when she was house sitting through his window... and yada, yada, yada... she is one of his bitches now.
Posted by: LlamaLarry
I thought the Cusamano house sitter was in his imagination? Some sort of idealized Italian madonna/lover figure. Or was there another? Last season was so long ago I think I will rewatch the last couple of episodes to refresh my aging memory.
Posted by: markp99
Yes, I think the neighbor girl was Tony's "dream" girl. Imaginary.
I think this new girl is some random bimbo... ;)
Posted by: daperlman
quote:
Originally posted by LlamaLarry
I thought the Cusamano house sitter was in his imagination? Some sort of idealized Italian madonna/lover figure. Or was there another? Last season was so long ago I think I will rewatch the last couple of episodes to refresh my aging memory.
Yeah I think you are right, but is that the same actress? Maybe I am imagining things :confused:
Posted by: ybrew
Just freakin glad this show is back.
When Christopher & Paulie were joking early on, it didn't seem quite right. These two don't like each other.
I wasn't disappointed!
Those two were the best part of the show last night.
Posted by: davidmin
What was the "Bill W." book Chris was reading?
The grenade got a close-up, I think it's gonna go off this season.
David
Posted by: KRS
A buddy identified the guy guarding Tony's house (who used the phone in his study) as a character from Doogie Howser. Did anyone else pick up on that? I knew he looked familiar, but I only saw Doogie a couple times.
Posted by: mlisowski
Max Casella played Doogie Howser's buddy. He is also the guy talking to his girlfriend on the phone when Tony came back home at the end of the episode.
Posted by: markp99
Correct. I think Max or the other flunky will be the guy to get his hands on the grenade in Carmella's house....
kaaaboommm... :O
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by markp99
Bracco delivers her lines so slowly, unnaturally and unbelievably. I can not get past seeing the actress and not the character. With all the other excellent characters/charicatures (:)), she really bugs me!
I think she's perfect for the part. She sounds intelligent and very Italian (which I think is important), and the measured speech pattern is appropriate for somebody who probably thinks about every word she says at least three times bbefore she says it.
Posted by: Redleg
Tony's new goomah is Ralphie's ex, the practical joker. She looks like the housesitting dream girl because Tony has a thing for girls that look like that. :)
The Bill W book is about Bill W, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. I think this shows Chris is still a "friend of Bill's" as they say and still in recovery.
Posted by: mask2343
Yep, she's the one who made Ralphie step in Horse Manure. Then Tony bought her a diamond horseshoe pin, but she insisted that they still see each other.
Posted by: ADG
quote:
Originally posted by davidmin
What was the "Bill W." book Chris was reading?
The grenade got a close-up, I think it's gonna go off this season.
David
Bill W was the founder of AA.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...847111?v=glance
Posted by: LooseWiring
quote:
Originally posted by mask2343
Yep, she's the one who made Ralphie step in Horse Manure. Then Tony bought her a diamond horseshoe pin, but she insisted that they still see each other.
Some may remember her as Maria from Head of the Class.
Posted by: mask2343
Holy cow! You're right. We couldn't figure it out last season!
Posted by: smak
Leslie Bega right? She was on an episode of 90210 with Brandon in a hot tub. Nice stuff.
Glad to see the show back, obviously this show was a setup for the season.
I have a sinking feeling the Russian will be back, just because they mention him on this show, you forget about it, and 6 weeks later boom. They may do that with the grenade as well.
Was that Bracco's body in the dream sequence, i doubt it.
-smak-
Posted by: daperlman
quote:
Originally posted by smak
Was that Bracco's body in the dream sequence, i doubt it.
-smak-
Ummm no. But it was her dream afterall.
Posted by: cbordman
quote:
Originally posted by daperlman
She is the neighbor's daughter or niece or something. Tony noticed her when she was house sitting through his window... and yada, yada, yada... she is one of his bitches now.
:p great line!!
Posted by: Tsiehta
quote:
Originally posted by smak
I have a sinking feeling the Russian will be back, just because they mention him on this show, you forget about it, and 6 weeks later boom. They may do that with the grenade as well.
-smak-
I read somewhere that the Sopranos producers went public and said that the Russian guy story line is being dropped.
Posted by: MacThor
Isabella, the dream girl from Season 1, was exactly that - a figment of Tony's lithium-induced imagination. She was played by Maria Grazia Cucinotta (wow!)
Valentina - Tony's current girlfriend (Leslie Bega), was in fact Ralphie's girlfriend last season (although she and Tony slept together while Ralphie was still with her, or very soon after they broke up). I believe she was an art consultant that assisted with the famous horse painting from last season.
Posted by: Frank_M
I think the Pine Barres discussion to start the season PROVES that the story line is being dropped. Remember, this was something that could have had VERY serious repercussions for Paulie and Christopher.. as well as Tony.
But the fact that it has now taken on the status of a "tall tale"... means that it has lost it's bite. They wouldn't joke about it if it were otherwise.
Now for the guys, its just another great story to laugh about... but doesn't really go anywhere.... EXACTLY how the fans are supposed to regard it.
Posted by: cbordman
what was the fate of the horse painting? It did have a picture of Tony dressed like napolean, standing by the horse. And i seem to remember paulie getting the painting somehow, and hanging it at his house. Did he have himself painted over Tony? I seem to remember thinking that Tony might not be happy to learn that Paulie had the picture?
Posted by: super dave
quote:
Originally posted by TeeSee
The thing about the bear didn't seem to go any place. Maybe it's symbolism or something. Or maybe it introduces Carmela's new love interest, the animal control guy. I don't know.
The symbolism of how they are all so afraid of a bear running through the back yard, yet Tony (who is more threatening, terrifying, uncontrollable--the big bad so to say) just strolls casually through the front door. He's the one they should really be afraid of.
Posted by: Graymalkin
Holy smokes! That's Leslie Bega from Head of the Class? Nice.
Another HOTC alumnus, Khrystyne Hadje, has appeared in two episodes of L&O and one of SVU. She hasn't aged as well as Leslie -- very angular and gaunt -- but still very attractive. Khrystyne was the one I liked the most on HOTC. She was cute.
Posted by: mask2343
The painting is hanging at Paulie's place. He had it changed so Tony looked Napolean-like like you said. I think he had the face changed too, but the camera zoomed in at the end to show that the eyes looked the same. And yes, Tony probably would get upset about it because he loved that horse. Loved it so much that he killed Ralphie over it.
Posted by: pmyers
Did anybody see the SNL skit about the Sopranos this past Saturday? It really was pretty funny.
Posted by: jeff125va
quote:
Originally posted by super dave
The symbolism of how they are all so afraid of a bear running through the back yard, yet Tony (who is more threatening, terrifying, uncontrollable--the big bad so to say) just strolls casually through the front door. He's the one they should really be afraid of.
Hmmm, great observation. Not that I'm convinced Tony's actually going to harm anyone in his family, but at this point, the comparison of the potential danger of Tony and the bear is a great one.
Posted by: Bananfish
quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
Hmmm, great observation. Not that I'm convinced Tony's actually going to harm anyone in his family, but at this point, the comparison of the potential danger of Tony and the bear is a great one.
If you had to pick one animal that most closely resembles Tony, it would clearly be a bear. So it can't be coincedental (from a writing standpoint) that one is hanging around the house now that Tony is not living there.
And forget about the fact that a man that is going through an emotional and hostile breakup with his wife is handling an AK-47 while he's pissed off - I'm even more nervous about those lackey guards leaving that AK-47 leaning up against the wall or draped across a countertop than the bear. That's not exactly following the manufacturer's recommended handling procecures, I'll wager.
A few other observations:
1) There's a waiter dead behind a restaurant holding Christopher's credit card slip showing the insulting tip he gave the waiter. It can't be that difficult for the cops to put 2 and 2 together on this one.
2) I didn't care for the Tony romancing Melfi story line. It just didn't ring true to me. He wants to show her the "other Tony"?!?!? After threatening her life how many times? I'm not saying there aren't women out there attracted to "bad men" and anybody's capable of having a wild dream or two, but the idea that Melfi would actually entertain thoughts of dating "Anthony" is laughable to me.
bananfish
Posted by: bdowell
quote:
Originally posted by Bananfish
A few other observations:
1) There's a waiter dead behind a restaurant holding Christopher's credit card slip showing the insulting tip he gave the waiter. It can't be that difficult for the cops to put 2 and 2 together on this one.
You are assuming it was a credit card slip....
Chris said he only had $1200. Not that he only had $1200 available on his credit card.
As with earlier in the show, it's assumed that Chris paid with CASH. Remember, he asked Adriana for cash in the earlier part of the show.
Posted by: markp99
I believe they grabbed the cash/slip before they bolted from the scene...
Posted by: jkeegan
As I was reading through this thread another idea hit me for what the bear might represent.. (so I'm skipping the rest of the thread for now so I can jump right to posting it - sorry if this was already suggested).
The bear seems to me (at first glance) to represent Tony. You know he's a threat - bears are dangerous.. But this one didn't actually hurt anyone yet, and there were probably a lot of you out there (like me) that didn't want to see the bear get shot.. We give teddy bears to kids - bears look lovable and huggable, and yet they can maul you in a few seconds.
The bear kinda lumbers around, coming near the house, leaving, etc. That's kinda what Tony's doing - he doesn't live there, but just kinda shows up, drinks a sip of orange juice, and moves on.
(And if what really attracted the bear was the duck food, that's another subtle hint that the bear represents Tony)
On a less analytical side of things, I agree, I was laughing like crazy when Anthony Jr. was crying mommy. :D
Posted by: Bananfish
quote:
Originally posted by bdowell
You are assuming it was a credit card slip....
Chris said he only had $1200. Not that he only had $1200 available on his credit card.
As with earlier in the show, it's assumed that Chris paid with CASH. Remember, he asked Adriana for cash in the earlier part of the show.
Wasn't the waiter looking at and waving around a sheet of paper as they were arguing? - I assumed it was a credit card slip, but I guess it could have been the bill. And I don't remember the comment about only having $1200. A lot happened in a short time in that scene though, so I could have easily forgotten.
bananfish
Posted by: Bananfish
quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan
On a less analytical side of things, I agree, I was laughing like crazy when Anthony Jr. was crying mommy. :D
I generally find AJ scenes painful to watch, but I did enjoy seeing him blubber like the wuss that he is. My comment to my wife was "Why can't the writers put us out of our misery already and whack that kid."
bananfish
Posted by: kitsap
quote:
Originally posted by Bananfish
Wasn't the waiter looking at and waving around a sheet of paper as they were arguing? - I assumed it was a credit card slip, but I guess it could have been the bill. And I don't remember the comment about only having $1200. A lot happened in a short time in that scene though, so I could have easily forgotten.
I'm pretty sure it was cash. First off, these are very cash-oriented guys; no way do they want a paper trail. Second, remember how he was trying to dredge up enough cash prior to the previous dinner? Again, that's how they pay. Plus, it looked to me as if the waiter was waving a wad of cash at them as he complained.
Indeed, I was thinking at the time that the cash payment significantly helps deflect suspicion: There will be no indication of the under-tipping (for whatever that would have been worth), and the waiter out in the alley holding all that cash is a good robbery target.
Posted by: brianp6621
quote:
Originally posted by Bananfish
Wasn't the waiter looking at and waving around a sheet of paper as they were arguing? - I assumed it was a credit card slip, but I guess it could have been the bill. And I don't remember the comment about only having $1200. A lot happened in a short time in that scene though, so I could have easily forgotten.
bananfish
It was very clear that it was paid in cash and Paulie grabbed the check and money before running away.
You even heard Christopher yell "That's my money Paulie!" as they're running away.
Come on, these guys and the writers aren't that stupid :)
Posted by: numb and number
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
We know she's the wife of a mafia boss but who else really knows that? Does the animal control guy know that?
if you were the animal control guy would you consider it wise that t' is a guy not to cross? maybe even consider he was mob connected? i think thats the thing about a don.. you know. maybe, lol.
Posted by: gregpr
I loved the ep. Anybody know what the song was at the beginning and end of the show?
Posted by: Kylep
It looked to me like the waiter was holding one of those little folder thingies they give you the bill in.
I agree that Chris would have paid in cash, and that Paulie grabbed the whole folder thingy when they took off.
Posted by: KRS
I agree that it was probably cash that Christopher paid with at the restaurant.
What had me confused for a bit was the way Paulie suggested that they split the tab during his "apology" phone call. At first I thought that meant that he was going to keep $600, but it is more likely that he meant that he and Christopher would split the company dinners. D'oh.
Posted by: Redleg
quote:
Originally posted by gregpr
I loved the ep. Anybody know what the song was at the beginning and end of the show?
It's Emmylou Harris, "Heaven Only Knows," on her album Bluebird.
Posted by: cptodd
quote:
Originally posted by Bananfish
If you had to pick one animal that most closely resembles Tony, it would clearly be a bear. So it can't be coincedental (from a writing standpoint) that one is hanging around the house now that Tony is not living there.
Actually, the animal I would pick would be human! What other animal is so apt to unleash stunning levels of wanton violence and then justify it with an appeal to some moral code? I remember one episode (I think this was the episode) where little Tony accompanied his father who was collecting from some person by beating him to a pulp and then (I think) cutting off his hand or something like that. Tony walked in and his father justified this behavior by saying something about the immorality of gambling or something like that.
Someone mentioned in some other post that they thought that New Jersey was thinking about allowing bear hunting because black bears have become a problem in New Jersey. Actually, New Jersey residents just finished their bear hunt this past year. I think it was held at the end of last year or the beginning of this year. Lots of people shot lots of bears.
Posted by: kdaveler
Let's say they paid in cash. Wouldn't it still be somewhat easy to figure out who in the restaurant might have done it. You know the mob table with the convicted felons?
Ken
Posted by: pmyers
What confused me about that scene was that when the scene first started they were showing footage of the AC strip and Tony was saying he was going to hit the $100 craps table so I assumed they were in a casino, but when Chris and Pauly were outside it looked just like a regular place and not a casino in sight.
Posted by: ClutchBrake
quote:
Originally posted by LlamaLarry
Why the shot of the grenade? Did Janice ever find her ring?
It will probably be nothing but do you think it is possible these two things are connected? First we see Janice looking for her ring and then I recall her being mentioned when the close-up of the grenade and its ring/pin is being shown.
Like I said, probably nothing. But we are talking about Janice.
Posted by: MacThor
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
What confused me about that scene was that when the scene first started they were showing footage of the AC strip and Tony was saying he was going to hit the $100 craps table so I assumed they were in a casino, but when Chris and Pauly were outside it looked just like a regular place and not a casino in sight.
pmyers, ever been to AC? It's nothing like Vegas. Other than the strip of Casinos on the boardwalk (and a patch of Casinos at the north end of the harbor) it's an absolute dump. You can be two blocks away from the Casinos and have no idea they are there. Assuming the restaurant was off the boardwalk, it's very conceivable that a waiter was robbed at gunpoint.
If this incident comes back to haunt them, I'd guess it's because of prints. What did Christopher throw at the waiter? A brick? I didn't see any wiping down.
Posted by: Jon J
quote:
Originally posted by Bananfish
"Why can't the writers put us out of our misery already and whack that kid."
Right. AJ needs to go off to school...far, far away.
Posted by: pmyers
I actually like that AJ is a total wuss. I think it makes an interesting contrast to Tony.
Posted by: racer21
quote:
Originally posted by KRS
What had me confused for a bit was the way Paulie suggested that they split the tab during his "apology" phone call. At first I thought that meant that he was going to keep $600, but it is more likely that he meant that he and Christopher would split the company dinners. D'oh.
I took that to mean that Paulie would split the tab with Christopher for the previous dinner which Paulie paid for. Wasn't Paulie still expecting to be paid back for that?
Also Tony made it clear that Christopher pays until he is told he doesn't have to, hard to imagine Paulie stepping up and paying for anything he doesn't have to... this is the same guy who fought over a ketchup packet last season.
Posted by: Bananfish
quote:
Originally posted by Oh2Smooth
It was very clear that it was paid in cash and Paulie grabbed the check and money before running away.
You even heard Christopher yell "That's my money Paulie!" as they're running away.
Come on, these guys and the writers aren't that stupid :)
OK, color me stupid, I went back and watched again and you are correct.
bananfish.
Posted by: TiVoPony
Watching the episode I also thought bear=tony. It all felt setup to mimic the Tony/Carmella issues. The bear and Tony are both wandering around, they're dangerous, they're not wanted there, but nobody can make them leave.
The animal control officer dialog felt like foreshadowing. If Carmella eventually has to call the police to get Tony out of the house they'll likely tell her the same thing..."We're sorry, we can't do anything, he hasn't threatened or hurt anyone yet".
Of course, regarding the bear Tony noted "What, we have to wait until someone loses a leg?". :)
Pony
Posted by: cbordman
Didn't Artie have to complain to Tony about his huge tab at the restaurant? Who was the low man back then?
Posted by: JEbbesen
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
I actually like that AJ is a total wuss. I think it makes an interesting contrast to Tony.
"mommy mommy" cried the little wuss as the big bad bear approached
Please send him away. Soon
Posted by: KRS
quote:
Originally posted by racer21
I took that to mean that Paulie would split the tab with Christopher for the previous dinner which Paulie paid for. Wasn't Paulie still expecting to be paid back for that?
Also Tony made it clear that Christopher pays until he is told he doesn't have to, hard to imagine Paulie stepping up and paying for anything he doesn't have to... this is the same guy who fought over a ketchup packet last season.
Ahhh yes, you are probably right there. I did think it odd for cheapskate Paulie to offer to split future business dinners, but I wasn't thinking about Paulie demanding his money back.
By the way, Bananfish - is that a reference to the JD Salinger story, or a Cure reference ("Bananafishbones" which was a JD reference in the first place)?
Posted by: Bananfish
quote:
Originally posted by KRS
By the way, Bananfish - is that a reference to the JD Salinger story, or a Cure reference ("Bananafishbones" which was a JD reference in the first place)?
Mostly Salinger, but the Bananafishbones reference is an exquisite bonus (easily my favorite song on The Top).
I like the idea of being asked "why is your username 'bananfish'?" and answering back, obtusely (how else would Salinger or Robert Smith answer a question after all?), "because it's a perfect day for bananfish." You didn't receive that esoteric reply because I have a strict policy not to be cryptic with the 0.0001 % of the populace aware of the existence of Bananafishbones. :cool:
I dropped the third 'a' because back when I first signed up for irc (back in, oh, 1994 or so), you could only use 9 characters, and I've kept it off because I find it easier to just keep one moniker.
I might add that there are other levels to it - e.g., it's also kind of an inbred poker joke and I've convinced myself there's a tortured Lou Reed reference as well. Hopefully, such disclosure restores a small degree of Delphic mystery back into it for you.
bananfish
Posted by: rimler
quote:
Originally posted by MacThor
If this incident comes back to haunt them, I'd guess it's because of prints. What did Christopher throw at the waiter? A brick? I didn't see any wiping down.
It was a rock or chunk of concrete. The only way that thing could be printed is if it was on CSI: Crime Scene Idiocy.
Posted by: jeff125va
quote:
Originally posted by kdaveler
Let's say they paid in cash. Wouldn't it still be somewhat easy to figure out who in the restaurant might have done it. You know the mob table with the convicted felons?
Ken
Tony or someone talking with him said something to the effect that "nobody knows us around here." In Atlantic City, they could just as easily be from New York or Philly.
If the table hadn't been cleared before the body was found, they would definitely have lots of fingerprints on the dishes, and those guys are all in fingerprint databases for sure. Would also depend on whether the waiter had mentioned to anyone about the tip before going outside. Of course none of that narrows it down to Paulie and/or Christopher, but it would be a lead. (obviously I've been watching more CSI than Sopranos lately).
Posted by: Steveknj
My take on Paulie and Chris "splitting the tab" was this. Consider that it was Chris's money they took from the waiter after he was whacked. Chris yells out "It's my money Paulie", then Paulie offers to "split" the money. It should have ALL been Chris's, right? So Paulie offering the split the money as a peace offering actually NETTED him $600 instead of nothing.
Posted by: KRS
Lots of theories on what "Splitting the tab" meant.
1) They would split that tab Chris forced Paulie to pick up
2) They would split the tabs of future company dinners
3) They would split the $1200 tab
I'm starting to think that it is #3 - Paulie figures that keeping Chris' $600 will even the score from the previous dinner.....
Posted by: pmyers
I agree with #3. No way is it #2. Pauly is a cheap b*stard and would never split a tab with a "newbie" like Chris.
Posted by: Kevdog
3 things:
1) the tab Pauly offers to split is the one Chris made him pick up earlier in the ep. Remember, he drove up to the front of Satriales where Chris was having an espresso and told him to come up with the $800 by that night.
2) The bear could be a metaphor for Tony (likely) or for the menace they are all facing as a *result* of Tony being who he is. I think it could also be a neat way to show, using the juxtaposition of the AK-47 and the grenade, how screwed up the family's perception of "threat" and "danger" really are.
3) Lorraine Bracco didn't have nearly so wooden a delivery in "Goodfellas." I just don't think she has the acting range to carry off the role of a sophisticated therapist. She sounds like someone doing something she is pretty much doing -- i.e. reading back terms and concepts she just doesn't understand very well.
Posted by: MacThor
One of the morning shows here insists that the "handsome" Animal control officer is an FBI agent from earlier in the series, and that the whole bear plot is a way to get the feds invited onto the property. (Yes, they are speculating that the Feds planted the bear).
I recognize the actor as a cop or FBI agent, but as a guest star on some other series I can't place. I don't think he's been on the Sopranos before. Any help?
Posted by: ClutchBrake
quote:
Originally posted by MacThor
I recognize the actor as a cop or FBI agent, but as a guest star on some other series I can't place. I don't think he's been on the Sopranos before. Any help?
I'll bet you are thinking of Robert John Burke. He was an FBI agent on Oz. He also played a cop on L&O: SVU.
I didn't bother to look at the credits but in all honesty I was having a hard time telling if it was Robert John Burke. The hat is throwing me and the voice didn't sound quite right.
Posted by: MacThor
quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
I'll bet you are thinking of Robert John Burke. He was an FBI agent on Oz. He also played a cop on L&O: SVU.
I didn't bother to look at the credits but in all honesty I was having a hard time telling if it was Robert John Burke. The hat is throwing me and the voice didn't sound quite right.
That's it! An understandable mistake for them to make - as he was a fed on another HBO series. I recognized him too when he came on the Sopranos, but Oz/SVU is definitely where from.
Posted by: Redleg
The bear works for me as a metaphor for Tony. My "disappointment" was only that the previews showed Carmela running around the house in fear and Tony standing guard with an AK-47. I didn't expect pest control. ;)
And I think Bracco gets a bad rap here. I think she's a good actress, playing the part of an intellectual, level-headed professional therapist. Dealing with any patient requires carefully weighing their words to communicate the right thing the right way, even more so when that patient is depressive and prone to violent outbursts. She's much looser in her dialogue with her therapist and her family.
Posted by: KRS
Oh man, if it turns out that the feds planted the bear in order to get on the property, then let me be the first to suggest that they are sailing over shark infested waters.
Posted by: canonelan2
quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
I'll bet you are thinking of Robert John Burke. He was an FBI agent on Oz. He also played a cop on L&O: SVU.
I didn't bother to look at the credits but in all honesty I was having a hard time telling if it was Robert John Burke. The hat is throwing me and the voice didn't sound quite right.
Yep... that's him... I always tend to think of him as Bill Anders in "From the Earth to the Moon" damn I love that apollo 8 episode.
Posted by: jwjody
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
I actually like that AJ is a total wuss. I think it makes an interesting contrast to Tony.
Meadow will take over the family business. She doesn't want to be a part of it but I think she's ruthless on a level we haven't seen.
I remember one scene at a funeral (can't remember the season or who had died) but one of the younger girls was talking to a person that wasn't part of the "family" and Meadow jumped all over her about talking to outsiders regarding the business.
J
Posted by: Martha
Well, I noticed Melfi's very "stone-like" delivery of her lines to Tony, but decided that it was sort of purposeful - she was giving her lines as if she were talking to a small child; very deliberate, very slow - in a very patient voice explaining herself.
Of course, Tony pitched a normal 2 year old fit.......
Posted by: Sromkie
quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
I was just happy to have the show back on the air. I am wondering at what point the boss's son would start taking part in the family biz....AJ has to be like 16-17 by now.
I think I remember something from early on that suggested that Tony didn't want Anthony involved in the business. He also didn't want Carmella's nephew (I think that was it) involved. He seems to want anyone he cares about that isn't already involved to stay out of that life.
Posted by: lajohn27
If you are actually interested in wanting to know what the book Chris was reading was.. it's called :
My Search for Bill W. - By Mel B.
Amazon describes the book like so..
"This is a psycho-social analysis of the life of Bill Wilson, Cofounder of Alcoholic Anonymous. This Book is acknowledging the greatness of an unusual man who made a virue of anonymity, this revealing biography explores Bill W's seven faces, showing how each role he played - among them communicater, peacemaker, entrepreneur, and founder/statesman - helped and hindered the development of Alcoholics Anonymous."
Already that sounds like its above Christopher's reading level. And seems to hint at perhaps some ambivalence on Chris' part with the 'program'.
Full link to the Amazon title is below.
J
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books
Posted by: mitchb2
Extremely dull and disappointing episode.
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