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I'll never watch poker on ESPN(2) again...
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Posted by: scooterboy

I'm really digging the World Poker Tour on the Travel Channel. Can't get enough of it.

So to get a poker fix I recorded a half-dozen episodes of the World Series of Poker on ESPN(2?). What a mistake.

First off, 4 of the 6 episodes consisted of the sports event that preceded it on the schedule going long. Leaving little to no poker. :mad:

Of the episodes I did get to see, the production was nowhere near the quality level of that on the Travel Channel. The announcing, the graphics, the way the hands were chopped up. They don't know what they're doing.

I need more World Poker Tour!

Posted by: MacThor

Scooter, I agree with all of your points. HOWEVER....

The WSOP NLHE tourney is THE premier event of poker. In a survey of professional players, it was unanimously voted the most prestigious event. And ESPN covers earlier table action, whereas WPT only shows the final 6. I can't speak for others, but I often finding myself interested in how the final table players got there, and which pros they knocked out along the way.

Posted by: devdogaz

I agree that the WSOP is poker's premier event. It's just sad that the TV production of the event is not up to par with the "lesser" events of the WPT.

Of course, part of it could be that everything about the WPT broadcast is geared toward the show being made for television. The WSOP is still mainly about the poker and the cameras are just there as observers.

FWIW, I enjoy the production of the WPT much better than the WSOP as well. ESPN should hire the production company of the WPT to do this year's WSOP.

On an unrelated note: I was in Vegas a few weeks ago and Binion's was closed. Does anyone know if it's going to be open in time for the WSOP or if they are holding the event somewhere else?

Posted by: yogus

If I recall Harrahs bought the Binions assets, and a Harrahs spokesman said that they would have the WSOP at Binions this year.

Posted by: pmyers

Yes, I just got an invitation from Harrah's to stay at the Horseshoe. They specifially mentioned the WSOP being played there. I forget the dates though.

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

I was just going to ask when the dates were for the WSOP. I've been wondering for a while now.

And I actually have the opposite view-for some reason, I can't stay interested in the WPT as well as the WSOP. I agree with the scheduling issues, though, that can be a real pain.

Posted by: pmyers

from: http://www.harrahs.com/wsop/index.html

All tournament events will take place at the Horseshoe in downtown Las Vegas, which is scheduled to re-open on April 1.

Here is a snapshot of events for the 35th annual World Series of Poker®:

Starts the day Horseshoe re-opens (TBD) through April 21

Wednesday, April 21 thru Friday, May 21

Saturday, May 22 thru Friday, May 28

For a more detailed summary of events, please click here.
Click here to view the full tournament schedule.

For more information on this year's World Series of Poker, please call: 1-877-FOR-WSOP

Posted by: smak

The WPT has it easy, they have their own stage, own production facilities, and everything is their setup.

the WPT is definately a TV show involving poker.

The WSOP feels like a documentary of a poker tournament..

I don't remember exactly what portion of the 7 episodes were the final table, but they did have the "TV table". Maybe this year, that will be set aside to have better production values.

-smak-

Posted by: K-Line

I havent a clue how to play the game but for some reason found myself watching the poker championships on a boat of some kind the other day.

Never knew how complicated the game was until then, and how serious all the players are.

I liked how one of them was playing listening to his Cd player so people didnt think he was paying attention.. then half way through he would turn it off an really concentrate without anyone noticing.

Found watching the Strip Poker champioships on Men and Moters a lot simpler to follow though, and the added bouns of chebs made it more enjoyable :)

Posted by: pmyers

Strip Poker Championships?......please tell more!

Posted by: K-Line

Half an hour of 5 very sex women sat around the table...

Was really simple, get 3 cards then they twist or stick, highest wins and the rest have to take an item of clothing off.

Think the overall loser has to do a poledance at the end as well.

Quality TV at its best! Its on a few times a week on Men and Moters (UK)

Posted by: VegasVic

Harrahs bought Binions strictly for the WSOP and the Binions name. Whether they end up keeping the downtown property is up in the air. In the past Harrahs has had no interest in being downtown. At one point they bought the old Showboat which is near downtown, but then they sold it.

The old 'Shoe really went downhill after Benny died. First Becky and Jack fought for control of it, then Becky ran it into the ground when she got it. Remember the million dollar display they had in the back? You could get your picture taken free with a million bucks. Cheesy but cool. But then Becky had to get rid of it because she needed the cash. Because it was all in rare $10,000 bills she actually got more than a million for it.

Downtown is great, like the old Vegas. Somehow the 'Shoe has to stay open.

Posted by: pmyers

that $1million display used to be quite a tourist attraction. I remember being in awe of it when I was about 16 when I saw it.

Posted by: MacThor

quote:
Originally posted by VegasVic
Harrahs bought Binions strictly for the WSOP and the Binions name. Whether they end up keeping the downtown property is up in the air. In the past Harrahs has had no interest in being downtown. At one point they bought the old Showboat which is near downtown, but then they sold it.

The old 'Shoe really went downhill after Benny died. First Becky and Jack fought for control of it, then Becky ran it into the ground when she got it. Remember the million dollar display they had in the back? You could get your picture taken free with a million bucks. Cheesy but cool. But then Becky had to get rid of it because she needed the cash. Because it was all in rare $10,000 bills she actually got more than a million for it.

Downtown is great, like the old Vegas. Somehow the 'Shoe has to stay open.

I thought Ted ran it until his drug use and/or murder -- then Becky took over. Jack never had an interest because his riverboats were doing so well?

Posted by: scooterboy

quote:
Originally posted by MacThor
I thought Ted ran it until his drug use and/or murder -- then Becky took over. Jack never had an interest because his riverboats were doing so well?

Wait - which soap opera are we talking about again? :)

Posted by: MacThor

quote:
Originally posted by scooterboy
Wait - which soap opera are we talking about again? :)

This one:

Positively Fifth Street

Posted by: tomlouie

quote:
Originally posted by MacThor
This one:

Positively Fifth Street

I just finished the book. It's a great read if you enjoy playing and/or watching poker.

Tom

Posted by: VegasVic

Ted lost his gaming license before the dispute over the 'Shoe started. Once Becky won control it was the beginning of the end.

Here is a recap: Link

There were a lot of rumors about Jack coming back to run the 'Shoe. He retained 1% ownership after his sister took over in 1998. Jack was denied an Illinois gaming license in 2000 due to "questionable business practices". There is some thought that Nevada would not let him run a casino in that state again.

Posted by: scooterboy

quote:
Originally posted by MacThor
This one:

Positively Fifth Street

That looks like a great book - thanks for the link. Before I order it are there any other books similar to that one that you would recommend?

Posted by: scottjf8

I'll agree that I like the WPT much better.... were they the ones that invented/started using the Hole Cam?

Posted by: smak

quote:
Originally posted by scottjf8
I'll agree that I like the WPT much better.... were they the ones that invented/started using the Hole Cam?

I believe so. Before the last years TV fascination with poker, ESPN did show the WSOP a few times. Gabe Kaplan hosted a few times. One was even on Fremont St (on the street, outdoors).

They never showed anything to the audience. If it didn't play out to a showdown, or somebody showed their cards before that, you'd never saw them.

Helmouth was a commentator a few times, and he had a knack for figuring out what people had. "I'd say he has J's or Q's" Sure enough a good % of the time, the guy would turn over what Helmouth thought.

-smak-

Posted by: VegasVic

Now that there is so much TV coverage of poker, many of the top players are taking on wrestling like personas. Phil Helmuth is a "bad guy", he's loud, obnoxious, always dissing other players. Phil Ivey is the "Tiger Woods" of poker. T.J. Cloutier is the grizzled old pro as is Texas Dolly Brunson. Howard Lederer is "the professor".

Helmuth is a good player. He was the youngest player to ever win the WSOP in 1989, he was 20 something. Away from the tables he's a nice guy.

Posted by: MacThor

This "Tiger Woods of Poker" always bothered me. Is it for the obvious, stereotypical reasons? Or did he win SEVERAL MAJOR TOURNAMENTS at a very young age? I recall him at a few final tables but not the champion of any of them.

Posted by: VegasVic

Ivey is a very good young player but it's mostly because he looks like Tiger.

http://worldpokertour.com/images/wpt_smlImg_pIvey.gif

By the way, Phil doesn't like the comparison either: "Tiger is the best at his game. I’m not there, yet."

Phil won 3 gold bracelets at the 2002 WSOP (although the no limit hold'em tournament is THE big WSOP tourney there are several others that go on during that time. The winner of each tournament gets a gold bracelet along with the prize money).

Posted by: MacThor

3 gold bracelets at one WSOP is pretty darn great, even if he didn't win "the big one."

Posted by: tomlouie

Anyone catch the WPT in France the other night? "Angry George" the Greek cracked me up with his victory exclamations:

"Greece Forever!"
"Isle of Crete!"
"Back to the Battle!"

I so badly wanted him to win, just to hear more from him!

Tom

Posted by: MacThor

That was fun, but so many wins as the underdog (especially with miracle river cards) makes me start to root against someone like that. On the balance between luck and skill, I guess I'd rather see more skill win. <shrug>

WPT was a repeat last night. It seems like they're really flipping between new eps and repeats on almost a weekly basis.

Posted by: scooterboy

I thought George the Greek was annoying ("diamonds are forever eh?"). I got the feeling he wasn't making any friends with the French crowd, either.

Posted by: devdogaz

I think it would be difficult to make friends with the French crowd unless you were French.

Posted by: swifty

quote:
Originally posted by smak
The WPT has it easy, they have their own stage, own production facilities, and everything is their setup.

the WPT is definately a TV show involving poker.

The WSOP feels like a documentary of a poker tournament..

I don't remember exactly what portion of the 7 episodes were the final table, but they did have the "TV table". Maybe this year, that will be set aside to have better production values.

-smak-

I don't know about production values, but production quantity has gone up for the 2004 WSOP. According to Matt Savage (the WSOP Tournament Director), ESPN will be televising the following events that are part of the WSOP:

# Date Buy In Event
1 Sat 4/24 $2,000 NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM
2 Sun 4/25 $1,500 7 CARD STUD
3 Thur 4/29 $1,000 NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM
4 Fri 4/30 $2,000 POT LIMIT OMAHA
5 Sat 5/1 $1,500 NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM
6 Wed 5/5 $5,000 NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM
7 Fri 5/7 $5,000 2-7 DRAW World Championship
8 Mon 5/10 $1,000 LADIES LIMIT HOLD 'EM World Championship
9 Fri 5/14 $5,000 SEVEN CARD STUD World Championship
10 Sat 5/15 $3,000 POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM World Championship
11 Sun 5/16 $1,500 RAZZ World Championship
12 Tue 5/18 $5,000 LIMIT HOLD 'EM World Championship
13 Thur 5/20 $5,000 POT LIMIT OMAHA World Championship
14 5/22-28 $10,000 Main Event No Limit Hold 'Em World Championship

Now, I know that I'm happy that they are televising all of these events, so ESPN won't play the same episode thousands of times, but my only concern is that most people don't know games like Deuce to Seven Draw, Omaha, and Razz.

These are also the dates that the final table will take place, so if you plan on playing in any of them, you have to be there the day before :). And, if you plan on playing in the $1k No-Limit Hold 'Em event, say hi to me. I'll be wearing the lucky Vans (shoe company) T-Shirt.

Posted by: mrpurple

quote:
Originally posted by scooterboy
That looks like a great book - thanks for the link. Before I order it are there any other books similar to that one that you would recommend?

Read and liked positively Fifth street. Also recommend The biggest game on town by Alvarez. Its an older book. But, a great read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=books&n=507846

Posted by: scooterboy

Thanks mrpurple, I just ordered both books. It also reminded me I need to pick up a copy of Rounders. :)

Posted by: smak

Wow, from maybe an hour show they'd show on a weekend 3 or 4 years ago, to 7 hours last year, now to 14 different shows....

WOW.

-smak-

Posted by: Rosenkavalier

quote:
Originally posted by scottjf8
I'll agree that I like the WPT much better.... were they the ones that invented/started using the Hole Cam?

There was a predecessor show, but I can't recall the name. Instead of the 'hole shot cam', they used a glass ring at the edge of the table, and had cameras below that shot up through the glass. Unfortunately, the players often laid their cards on top of each other, so all you got was one card.

I also think there was a show where they tried the hole cam, but hadn't "required" the players to show their cards to it (like they did on WPT from the start, and now do on WSOP). So a number of players deliberately blocked the cams with chips, put their hands in front, etc.