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This DTivo Newbie Misses His Digital Cable DVR

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)



Posted by: coreynyc

I am sure this is going to get labeled as if I am attempting to troll and or will be treated as sacrilege around here but…

I recently moved and just had DirecTV installed for the first time, I previously had Time Warner Digital Cable. I think the Time Warner Cable (TWC) DVR (made by General Instruments) is somewhat superior to my brand new RCA DirecTivo. Why?

Season Passes aren’t customizable enough for my liking. I want my DirectTivo to record The Daily Show every night ONLY at 11PM eastern, regardless if it is new or a repeat. I don’t trust the Tivo listings enough to determine whether it is really a first run or a repeat, I think these listings are often missing info like that (I could be wrong).

After a day or two, I realized that the Season Pass is recording some of the repeat showings so I set a manual recording. I now decided to record it on its repeat airing (Mon night/Tues morning –Thurs night/Fri morning at 1 AM), no can do! Tivo only allows you to select M-F, all 7 days, or a specific day. If I want to record Tues-Fri 1AM, I have to set it for M-F and I’ll record whatever airs in that slot on Sun night/Mon morning or I have to set 4 different manual recordings for Tues-Fri.

There are other shows (Tough Crowd, Howard Stern, etc) that I have the same issue with so I am either going to record a bunch of stuff I don’t want on those channels or I am going to have to set a ton of manual recordings for the individual nights that these shows air. With the TWC DVR, I could easily set multiple days in one manual request.

I also want it to record the 12:37 AM airing of Conan O’Brian, every night (Tues-Sat). Setting a season pass also gets me the middle of the night airing (sometime after 3AM) and you cannot set a proper manual recording because Tivo only allows the time to be set in 5 minute increments. Setting a manual 12:35 recording incorrectly labels the show as being Jay Leno, setting it to record at 12:40 means I miss the first 3 minutes of the show.

Another major plus of the TWC DVR vs Tivo is that no matter what you were watching (live TV or recorded), It remained in the corner of the screen (taking up about 25% of the screen) while you went through the guide or the recorded programs list. When you go into a Tivo list or try to program a recording, you can no longer watch whatever you were watching. To me this is inefficient; I can do two things at once! Plus the Tivo guide should allow you to watch TV in the corner instead of overlaying the guide on top of the screen.

Finally, the TWC DVR had PIP functionality. All in all, I think they offered a very good set of features and I did not have to purchase any equipment like I did with Tivo. Yes, Tivo offers better searching capabilities than the TWC DVR and records suggestions if you want but I definitely think that Tivo is lacking in a few areas.

I guess you can say I am a little disappointed with Tivo after hearing so much about it. Or maybe I’m just a noob who hasn’t figured out workarounds for some of my recording issues. Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

Thanks in advance.



Posted by: crendall

When I setup a Season Pass I would select "First Run and Repeat" or if you want just the new shows select "First Run". In my experience this didn't record the same show within a 28 day period. If you tell Tivo to do "Every Episode" you will get duplicates.



Posted by: Marco

First, Welcome to the TiVolution!

Annoyances. Minor, I'd argue, but yes there are annoyances.

But be fair -- surely you've found things DTiVo can do that your cable box couldn't? Surely "better searching capabilities" merits more than a quick mention at the end of your post? Could your DVR do Wishlists? Could it really do Season Passes as well as DTiVo?

The bad guide data for Jon Stewart is well known. I have a M-F manual recording as well ... big deal, I have to delete one recording out of five.

If you *know* Conan will be mis-labeled as Jay Leno, is that really so bad?

I'm sorry I don't have any workaround ideas for you on these issues. I think when your neighbor's cable goes out for two days, you'll be happy you switched. :)



Posted by: 3D

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
I also want it to record the 12:37 AM airing of Conan O’Brian, every night (Tues-Sat). Setting a season pass also gets me the middle of the night airing (sometime after 3AM) and you cannot set a proper manual recording because Tivo only allows the time to be set in 5 minute increments. Setting a manual 12:35 recording incorrectly labels the show as being Jay Leno, setting it to record at 12:40 means I miss the first 3 minutes of the show.


Once you've set up a manual recording, can you change it so that it starts recording two minutes early?



Posted by: Jonathan_S

quote:
Once you've set up a manual recording, can you change it so that it starts recording two minutes early?
Yep. And this would allow you to record the whole show and have the correct description.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by 3D
Once you've set up a manual recording, can you change it so that it starts recording two minutes early?


I didn't realize this can be done on manual recordings. Thanks.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by Marco
First, Welcome to the TiVolution!

Annoyances. Minor, I'd argue, but yes there are annoyances.

But be fair -- surely you've found things DTiVo can do that your cable box couldn't? Surely "better searching capabilities" merits more than a quick mention at the end of your post? Could your DVR do Wishlists? Could it really do Season Passes as well as DTiVo?

The bad guide data for Jon Stewart is well known. I have a M-F manual recording as well ... big deal, I have to delete one recording out of five.

If you *know* Conan will be mis-labeled as Jay Leno, is that really so bad?

I'm sorry I don't have any workaround ideas for you on these issues. I think when your neighbor's cable goes out for two days, you'll be happy you switched. :)




I made just a passing mention about search functions, because its not that vital to my needs. I typically know when a show I want to see is going to be on so scrolling through a guide on the TWC DVR wasn't a major pain in the butt.

My biggest complaint about the manual recordings for Jon Stewart, Colin Quinn, and Howard Stern is that I usually like to record the rebroadcasts that take place 3 hours later (for the west coast). So I can watch and/or record other stuff from 11-Midnight and have these shows record while I am asleep.

So technically, I want to record Tues-Fri morning for the two Comedy Central shows and Tues-Sat morning for Howard on E!. Why can't you set multiple individual days on a single manual recording???



Posted by: ziggy29

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
I recently moved and just had DirecTV installed for the first time, I previously had Time Warner Digital Cable. I think the Time Warner Cable (TWC) DVR (made by General Instruments) is somewhat superior to my brand new RCA DirecTivo.
Hey, at least you *had* the DVR option from TWC. Here in Houston, it's still vaporware. When we hooked up with TWC in our new house in August, they said the DVR for Houston would be "September or October." Then it was "December". Then it was "early next year." And still no DVR for Houston.

We just got tired of their vaporware, bad picture and horrible service (a week to deal with a crappy picture and weak signal?), and tomorrow we're coming home again and evicting TWC. :-)



Posted by: dagap

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
My biggest complaint about the manual recordings for Jon Stewart, Colin Quinn, and Howard Stern is that I usually like to record the rebroadcasts that take place 3 hours later (for the west coast). So I can watch and/or record other stuff from 11-Midnight and have these shows record while I am asleep.

Are you using both tuners? If not, then figure out a way to get a second cable to your DTivo. Dual tuners is hands-down one of the best features of the DTivos.

Then you can record the shows at the earlier time and still watch something else live. Or you can record two shows at the same time while watching something from disk.



Posted by: Indiana627

Did the TW dvr have dual tuners like Directv Tivo does? As dagap said, the dual tuners should elimimate needing to record the west coast feeds.



Posted by: dtremain

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
My biggest complaint about the manual recordings for Jon Stewart, Colin Quinn, and Howard Stern is that I usually like to record the rebroadcasts that take place 3 hours later (for the west coast). So I can watch and/or record other stuff from 11-Midnight and have these shows record while I am asleep.



At the risk of being repetitive, I'm one more person who can't see why this is a factor to you with two tuners.



Posted by: Mark W

I would think that it had dual tuners. If not, then there is no comparison. I'll take dual tuners over more flexible manual recording options any day.

Tivo definitely does take some getting used to in order to realize how great some of the features are. This quote says alot. "I typically know when a show I want to see is going to be on so scrolling through a guide on the TWC DVR wasn't a major pain in the butt." No, it's not a major pain in the butt, but there are some shows that I want recorded that I don't know when they will be on, and don't want to take the time to figure it out. Like No Doubt performances, shows about Disney World, home theaters, finishing a basement, and Connecticut college basketball. Ah...wishlists...

The question about not being able to watch something while using the guide and doing other functions is very legitamite. DTivos should have Picture in Guide- period.



Posted by: coreynyc

OF COURSE I use both tuners.

My issue is with the lack of options for customizing a season pass or manual "pass". I would like to be able to tell the Tivo to record a show every week on particular days (M-Th or T-F) at a particular time without having to program 4 individual 1-day manual recordings

Tivo offers so many features, I don't understand how it doesn't offer this simple amount of flexibility that I am seeking or PIP (or PI Guide/List) capabilities.



Posted by: StStSt

No offense, but how hard is it to set up 4 manual recordings? You do it once and you're done. I did it myself to see how long it would take (2 minutes, 20 seconds without trying to go fast). Is it an elegant solution? No, but who cares if it gets you what you want



Posted by: boxster99t

It's been awhile since I set up a manual recording, but I believe there is an option to do a weekly recording by channel and time. Thus, you do a weekly recording for Mon, ch X, time y, and Tues, chX, time,y, etc...and when done, it will record the Mon-Th or whatever block of shows you're after.

I just don't think most folks record the way you want to using a Tivo--what I do, is set up a season pass for Howard Stern, for example, and tell it to save at most 5 shows (or you could do save all), and every other day clean up my NPL to eliminate the duplicates (which is easy to do, if you enable the sort function by alpha). And it won't stop you from recording other shows in these time slots--it will give you a choice to cancel the conflicting show or not record your previously selected season pass.

The way you do it, you may miss a show if the air time is changed, the show starts later, or if for any reason the schedule doesn't match your chosen time.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by StStSt
No offense, but how hard is it to set up 4 manual recordings? You do it once and you're done. I did it myself to see how long it would take (2 minutes, 20 seconds without trying to go fast). Is it an elegant solution? No, but who cares if it gets you what you want


It’s not. But the point is that everyone is always preaching about how vastly superior Tivo is to every other DVR’s out there and thus far I have found certain aspects to be somewhat lacking.

I know there’s a less “elegant solution” but I was trying to avoid that. The Tivo programmers have thought of and included so much, they could have made Season Passes a little more flexible as there are tons of shows out there that have numerous first run and repeats during a given day.

However, I am significantly more disappointed that I cannot watch something in the corner of the screen while navigating through the list, season pass/manual record screens, and the guide.



Posted by: TonyD79

Help this guy out. He is not using a Tivo. He is using a TiVo as if it were a VCR.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
All in all, I think they offered a very good set of features and I did not have to purchase any equipment like I did with Tivo.

Even with no "up-front equipment costs", I've rarely seen cable turn out to be a cheaper deal per month.

I'm glad that the Cable DVR is coming out -- I'm sure TiVo will take a look at its features and see what they can implent, just like I'm sure the cable DVR folks did with TiVo.

IMO, the recording issues you've run across are valid issues, but more a function of crappy guide data than anything else.

I did get a chuckle out of reading about Jon Stewart in the last TiVo e-newsletter earlier this week and then seeing it in the forum. :)



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
Help this guy out. He is not using a Tivo. He is using a TiVo as if it were a VCR.


Here’s the thing, based on some past threads here, I don’t trust a Season Pass for The Daily Show plus I don’t know if Tivo treats a 1AM airing of TDS or a 2AM airing of Howard Stern as “first run” or “repeat”.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
Here’s the thing, based on some past threads here, I don’t trust a Season Pass for The Daily Show plus I don’t know if Tivo treats a 1AM airing of TDS or a 2AM airing of Howard Stern as “first run” or “repeat”.

News You Can Use From TiVo, Volume 48

You Ask, We Answer
Q. Overall, I love TiVo more than my mother-in-law (don't print my full name or city, please!), but here's my frustration: I have a Season Pass™ recording for The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, which airs four times per day. I want to record only the 11 PM show, but TiVo ends up recording all four airings, which fills up my DVR unnecessarily. Yes, I can go into my To Do List and delete recordings one-by-one, but might there be another option? —Ruth

A. We share your frustration, Ruth (many of us here at TiVo love Jon Stewart, too). Here's why it happens: The Daily Show, more often than not, submits a generic descriptor as its program guide information instead of the more detailed episode information, which is how the TiVo® service can distinguish a new episode from a repeat. Because there is not enough information to confirm whether an episode is being repeated (and just putting in the guest star names would help), TiVo records them all as a safeguard. (More Jon is better than no Jon, right?)

Unfortunately, The Daily Show isn't the only popular program that makes this a regular practice (The Osbournes, anyone?), so when you run into this situation, here are a couple of things you can do to avoid the multiple recordings and/or regular visits to the To Do List:

If you typically watch the show before the next episode airs, simply adjust the Season Pass™ "Options" settings to "Keep at Most" = one (1). That way, even though the TiVo® service will still record the show four times a day, only the most recent airing will be remain on your Now Playing list. The rest will get "bumped" with every new recording.
Cancel your Season Pass™ recording altogether and instead set up a repeat Manual Recording for the timeslot you prefer. A Manual Recording captures a specific channel at a specific time, so you'll record only one show per day. Choose "Manually Record Time/Channel" from the "Pick Programs to Record" screen to get started.
Finally, there's always this option: Write a letter to Jon Stewart himself (he talks up TiVo all the time, you'd think he'd relate), and tell him to, well... get with the program (details) already!

P.S. We do love you, Jon. Immensely.



Posted by: MichaelK

if the guide data is correct (the big if)

and you make the season pass a low priority (e.g. at the bottom of your list) it will record the repeats later in the day if it cant get the earliest one. Even if it is set for first run only- first run is considered anything within i think a week of its original air date. So if it aired on monday night but didnt record because you have a higher priority season pass, then it would grab the re-run later in the morning.

First run only keeps it from recoding a show that aired a while ago.

The problem would be that if there isnt sufficient guide data and you had a sesaon pass, i'm not sure if it would differentiat the night time one from the morning.

But simpliest way I handle that is make a season pass for keep at most 5, set it up at the bottom of the list, and just delete the duplicates from Now Playing when you get to them.

not perfect but it'll work.

Problem with that is you will wast e30-60mins with duplicates of drive space- but with a Tivo its simple enough to upgrade the space- unlike the TW model. Many folks wnat more space eventually anyhow :-)



Posted by: aristoBrat

Just out of curiosity, if the Jon Stewart show doesn't release detailed descriptions, how does the Cable DVR tell if the 11PM showing is a repeat or first-run?



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by aristoBrat
Just out of curiosity, if the Jon Stewart show doesn't release detailed descriptions, how does the Cable DVR tell if the 11PM showing is a repeat or first-run?


Aristobrat,

First of all, thanks for the newsletter exerpt. How do I go about subscribing to that newsletter? The Tivo website?

Secondly, for a show like Daily Show, I would manually program the Cable DVR for Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs @ 11PM (or Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri @ 1AM). One manual record could be assigned to as many specific days as you like (it offered more options than Tivo does), I didn’t have to do 4 individual manual records.



Posted by: yunlin12

Corey, welcome to Tivo.

When I jumped on board a little over a year ago, I was coming over from ReplayTV, which works pretty much like the cable DVR you described. I have to say WishList and Thumbing are two of my favorite features. I used to have to worry about HBO or Showtimes shows like Sopranos, Six Feet, Dead Like Me, about which day of the week and which channel I can catch them so I would have the smallest possibility of overlaping with anything else I might want. Now, I just put a wishlist in for FirstRuns, and let Tivo worry about which one I catch. I don't worry about the networks shifting time slots of shows on me. The time I save on constantly checking for possible conflict with a time based recording easily outstrips the time I spent deleting a couple of Jon Stewart every week.

The easiest way to kill duplicates I found is just go into Season pass manager for the Jon Stwart show, select view upcoming shows, and manually delet any scheduled recordings that I don't want. You can hit clear button while you are viewing the list of shows, and it would pop up a dialog screen asking you if you want to cancel that showing. This way you can zip through all the scheduled recordings in the whole guide data (~13 days) in a couple minutes.

This really down to two different philosophy, a time-based mentality of traditional TV viewers, and the show-based one that most of Tivo'ers have. You don't think of shows as something attached to a time slot, you just tell Tivo what shows you like, and in what order you like 'em, and let it do its thing.



Posted by: trainman

Interestingly enough, for four out of the past five weeks, and for next week, "The Daily Show" has had actual, correct guide data, and so my Season Pass has worked exactly as it's supposed to (except for that one "missing" week, of course). It'll be very nice if Comedy Central/Tribune/DirecTV/whoever can keep it up.



Posted by: smak

Corey just happens to be a fan of the two or 3 shows that are notorious for no data.

There have been numerous Howard Stern, John Stewart & conan repeat threads around here...

I don't see how Tivo is WORSE than the cable DVR for these issues. It's the same, you set up a manual repeat recording, and you get one extra one a week if you record the 11 pm one.

I'd agree that they should add the tue-sat option for early morning shows.

I did a one time setup of a howard stern manual recording maybe 4 years ago, and haven't touched it since. It's not a lot of work.

As for the PIP in the guide thing, i don't need that. I don't want to watch 1/4 of a show. I'm not watching live tv, there's no reason to do PIP for anything, since i don't miss any part of what i'm watching since it's always recorded. This is true for sports as well.

-smak-



Posted by: BrettStah

coreynyc, first of all let me agree with you that it would be a good thing to have more Season Pass (and WishList) recording options. Being able to limit such recurring recordings based upon days of the week and/or time of day would be helpful.

However, since we don't have that right now, here's how I deal with similar issues:

1) Shows like the Daily Show (repeats often, doesn't always have specific guide data, so you get repeats): I set them to Keep at Most = 1, set the priority of the season pass to be lower than stuff that the repeats I don't want conflicts with, and then don't worry about it. So The Daily Show will often not be able to record at 7pm (due to conflicts with higher-priority stuff), but will be able to record when it repeats 3 hours later. If it also re-records in the middle of the night, I don't much care since it'll only wind up keeping the latest episode. I also do this for ESPN's SportsCenter, which seems to come on all the time. It's low enough not to cause anything I consider really important to be missed, and I always wind up having an episode that's pretty new.

For the Conan problem... yep, it's a pain. If you upgrade your DirecTivo, I'd just let it record. Otherwise, you could set up a 5 minute manual recording on another channel for the same time period as the late-night/early morning episode you don't want, and set it to be one level higher than Conan. Of course with dual tuners you'd actually need TWO of these 5 minute recordings to make sure Conan would never record at that timeslot. Either way it's messy.

For the PIP issue... I have a TV that has PIP, and can feed two DirecTivos into it and actually use it. Other than trying it out to just try it out, I don't use it... why? Because I found that with multiple tuners available to me (two on each of my DirecTivos), I don't want to have to split my attention between two different things. Last football season I would often have up to 4 football games buffered up at the same time. I would be able to watch every play of every game without having to divide my attention by simply swapping between the tuners (I have an IR-switchable A/V switchbox that I programmed to switch between the DirecTivos based on the signal sent out by the Play button on the remote, and use one of the remotes available at the Tivo store that can control two Tivos).



Posted by: wraith1

Brett, I'm glad you described the dual DTivo box setup. I have two DTivo's as well, but attached to two separate TV's. I have frequently pondered the possible advantage of hooking two of the dual tuner receivers up to my big screen. I think my reluctance is related more to a realization that I am Rick and I AM a Tivoholic (Hi Rick) than any technical obstacles.

Corey, IMHO, Tivo is a terrific piece of technology. But it is not the second coming; nothing is. Of course Tivo has its weaknesses. In that respect, Tivo is a little like democracy; the worst form of government in the world....except for all the rest. I own a couple of ReplayTVs too. And, frankly, I prefer the way RTV handles a couple of issues. But over all, let's put it this way, the Tivo's are connected to my two main TV's in the living room and the family room. The RTV's are consigned to the bedroom and the office (where I am usually sleeping or working on something...not necessarily in that order). You are accustomed to your cable DVR. You are familiar with it's abilities. Give Tivo some time (and its developers an opportunity), it will grow on you.



Posted by: BrettStah

quote:
Originally posted by wraith1
Brett, I'm glad you described the dual DTivo box setup. I have two DTivo's as well, but attached to two separate TV's. I have frequently pondered the possible advantage of hooking two of the dual tuner receivers up to my big screen.
I decided a few years ago that I didn't want to have to go to a specific room just because the show I want to watch was on a specific Tivo. So I investigated things, (and this was before the standalone Series2 Tivos were even out, let alone the HMO networking stuff, and before the 4000 model Replays with networking), and decided to try a cable modulation system to send the outputs from up to 4 devices out as our very own cable channels. It's turned out to be a great decision for us, and now when we're in our den with our main TV we can watch anything that's on any Tivo, and we have the same choices when we want to watch TV in a different room.



Posted by: MikeekiM

Hi coreynyc...

As others have said, welcome to the TiVolution... It truley is a work in progress... But given all the tradeoffs, it really is the best thing out there...

I certainly do not want to diminish the points you have made... Very good points... Not insurmountable, since there are workarounds to accomplish exactly what you want to do... Some options take a little more work upfront, others take a little more work in maintenance...

As an example... With the flexible manual scheduling... I try to put myself in your shoes, and I would probably do one of two things:

1. Set up a daily manual schedule that supersets what I want... So if I want T-Su then I would go for the 7-day option... Or if I wanted T-Th, I would set up the 5 day option... Then just delete the extra program that is not relevant... So that takes a little work on the maintenance end...

2. Set up individual day-specific manual schedules... One for M, One for T, etc... I know that has already been mentioned... A little more work on the prep end...but time saved on the maintenance end...

I definitely would use the manual options above when you don't find the season passes or wishlists to do what you want to do...

But I really encourage you to try to shift your paradigm from time focus to program focus... It really is a wonderful thing... As a recent example, I have a season pass for Survivor... I truley set it...and forget it... Last week or so when they moved the first-run episode from Thursday to Wednesday, I didn't have to lift a finger...nor did I need to be aware of the schedule shift...

Okay, I lied a bit... I did not really set up a Season Pass, per se... I really set up a autorecord WishList... Why? Because I found out that the very last episode of each Survivor actually is not recognized as attached to the season... So by setting up a WishList to record every reality-based show with the title "Survivor" in it, I pick up everything...

I used Survivor in the two examples above just to illustrate that the TiVo is certainly not perfect...as I stated...work-in-progress... But as you learn little idiosynchrasies, you can make the adjustments and move on... My goal is to move as close to "set-and-forget" as possible (knowing full well that it will never be 100%)...

Another example of where I had to make an adjustment... I set up a season pass for a talk show that did not have any guide data, and repeated several times a day (I forget which it was)... The season pass just did not suit my needs...so I went from an SP to a manual...

Oh...and another thing that I have found fantastic is if you like certain programs, you can set up auto-record wishlists where the category is "Talk Show" and the description has your favorite series... As an example, I have two set up this way...one for Survivor, and one for the Apprentice... So whenever there is a talk show with one of the "cast members" being interviewed it records it automatically... Do I catch every single one? No... Do I miss a few? Yes... But all and all, it works quite well...

Again, welcome to the TiVolution... Give it a chance...kick the tires...get behind the wheel... I think you will find the drive a pleasant one...



Posted by: MikeekiM

quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
I decided a few years ago that I didn't want to have to go to a specific room just because the show I want to watch was on a specific Tivo. So I investigated things, (and this was before the standalone Series2 Tivos were even out, let alone the HMO networking stuff, and before the 4000 model Replays with networking), and decided to try a cable modulation system to send the outputs from up to 4 devices out as our very own cable channels. It's turned out to be a great decision for us, and now when we're in our den with our main TV we can watch anything that's on any Tivo, and we have the same choices when we want to watch TV in a different room.


I've done the same... Co-located 2 DTiVos in the living room... Modulated to channels 70 and 80... It's fantastic... I can get any program on either receiver from any TV... Plus, by co-locating them in the living room, I have the high-fidelity audio and video outputs for the home theater from both boxes...

AND, this set up eliminates the noise from the DTiVo fans in my bedroom!!!

IR distribution by Xantech... Modulation/Distribution by ChannelPlus (see my sig)...



Posted by: MixMasterMark

Since moving to Hawaii I can no longer use my DTivo (can't get DirecTV - there's a mountain in the way), so I now have the TWC DVR - the Explorer 8000 made by Scientific Atlanta. And I've got to say, it does have some slick features that Tivo doesn't, mostly PIP, a 1-hour channel buffer and the "display in corner" while searching the channel lists. It is nearly as programmable as Tivo (no wish lists, but there's a dozen TV listing websites you can do this on now) and the best part is NO longtime commitment and NO ADS. It functions pretty much identically as my old Philips DSR6k. I thought I'd really miss my Tivo, but it is no longer the only game in town. So now my Tivo sits in a box, essentially junk.



Posted by: wraith1

Some say, "tomato" and some say, "tomahto;" some say, "potato" and some say "potahto." Whatever works. Personally, I prefer keen competition. Where competition thrives, subscribers win. But, only speaking for myself, it is the dual tuner that lights my phosphor.



Posted by: BrettStah

quote:
Originally posted by wraith1
But, only speaking for myself, it is the dual tuner that lights my phosphor.
Dual tuners are very cool. I also like the following, but don't know if the TimeWarner DVR has these too:




Posted by: wraith1

Yep...no doubt about it. I've done the same thing.



Posted by: MixMasterMark

And the quality of the picture on my digital cable is so superior to DirecTV - I was fooling myself for so long. What a difference.



Posted by: PaJo

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc

I want my DirectTivo to record The Daily Show every night ONLY at 11PM eastern, regardless if it is new or a repeat.



Off topic: I read an article that more people tuned into the Daily Show for news about the democratic primary race than Fox news. I also read the white house has released "fake news" spots using fake reporters to promote the medicare bill recently passed, looks like the Daily Show is leading the way into the new fad of "Fake News". We watch it regularly, thanks to Tivo.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
Dual tuners are very cool. I also like the following, but don't know if the TimeWarner DVR has these too:



The Time Warner DVR has dual tuners and everything you just mentioned, with the exception of wish lists...and they offer HBO Comedy which would give you many more airings of various Curb episodes than you get with DTV.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by MixMasterMark
And the quality of the picture on my digital cable is so superior to DirecTV - I was fooling myself for so long. What a difference.

$20/month extra difference? ;)

Alas, after your "atmosphere is causing the guide data error" posts, I don't know WHAT to believe from you anymore. :D



Posted by: anand999

Something I'd like to see with Season Passes is the ability to set multiple SPs for the same program.

For example, I am a big Simpsons fan. I wish I could set up a high priority SP to catch the new episodes, and then a low priority one to catch the reruns. Old Simpsons episodes are syndicated umpteen million times a day and if I set a single high priority SP, that's the only show it'd ever record. If I make it low priority, there's a chance it won't record the new episodes on Sunday.

Do any other DVR systems allow this?



Posted by: Richard Casto

quote:
Originally posted by MixMasterMark
Since moving to Hawaii I can no longer use my DTivo (can't get DirecTV - there's a mountain in the way), so I now have the TWC DVR - the Explorer 8000 made by Scientific Atlanta. And I've got to say, it does have some slick features that Tivo doesn't, mostly PIP, a 1-hour channel buffer and the "display in corner" while searching the channel lists. It is nearly as programmable as Tivo (no wish lists, but there's a dozen TV listing websites you can do this on now) and the best part is NO longtime commitment and NO ADS. It functions pretty much identically as my old Philips DSR6k. I thought I'd really miss my Tivo, but it is no longer the only game in town. So now my Tivo sits in a box, essentially junk.


You forgot one advantage of the cable dvr vs. your old sat setup. You don't have to worry about repointing your dish all of the time to fix guide data issues. ;)

Welcome back to the forum. :D



Posted by: NYHeel

I used to have TWC DVR in New York. I agree with the original poster that the TWC DVR functionality was about the same or sometimes better (PIP) than DTivo. It did change channels really slowly though. However, cable in my area is much more expensive so I went with Directv.
One feature that the TWC DVR had that Tivo does not is soft-padding. All recordings would be extended one minute as long as the tuner was "available". This is a really good feature as certain shows sometimes run longer than is reflected in the guide. It really doesn't seem like much to add and I don't know why Tivo can't add this feature.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by NYHeel
It really doesn't seem like much to add and I don't know why Tivo can't add this feature.

Hopefully, now that it seems like they might have some competition that looks like it'll be around for awhile, they'll add some cool new features like that.

Hopefully they're "not done' with the DVR part and are focusing only on stuff like HMO and TiVo-2-Go to set themselves apart...



Posted by: MixMasterMark

I have learned a valuable lesson - you get what you pay for. DirecTV is cheaper than digital cable - but the steadily worsening picture quality, whether caused by overcompression or the myriad fundamental problems of DBS transmission and reception, was driving me nuts. I see no artifacting on my digital channels at all. None. Apparently the cable industry has been taking DBS companies as a serious threat and they have gotten their act together, at least as far as picture quality goes.



Posted by: yunlin12

quote:
Originally posted by anand999
Something I'd like to see with Season Passes is the ability to set multiple SPs for the same program.

For example, I am a big Simpsons fan. I wish I could set up a high priority SP to catch the new episodes, and then a low priority one to catch the reruns. Old Simpsons episodes are syndicated umpteen million times a day and if I set a single high priority SP, that's the only show it'd ever record. If I make it low priority, there's a chance it won't record the new episodes on Sunday.

Do any other DVR systems allow this?



Why don't you set a SP for FirstRun only with high priority, and an ARWL with low prioirty? That's what I do with Simpson's. The SP catches the new ones on Fox only, the ARWL catches whatever other Simpsons reruns on whatever channel.



Posted by: yunlin12

quote:
Originally posted by MixMasterMark
I have learned a valuable lesson - you get what you pay for. DirecTV is cheaper than digital cable - but the steadily worsening picture quality, whether caused by overcompression or the myriad fundamental problems of DBS transmission and reception, was driving me nuts. I see no artifacting on my digital channels at all. None. Apparently the cable industry has been taking DBS companies as a serious threat and they have gotten their act together, at least as far as picture quality goes.


Hopefully D* will realize that they can't just sit on the same DTivo functionality forever now that cable DVR's are catching up. While we have all been sitting here Cable bashing, we should realize that cable is really our best friend :D



Posted by: paulfife

quote:
Originally posted by MixMasterMark
I have learned a valuable lesson - you get what you pay for. DirecTV is cheaper than digital cable - but the steadily worsening picture quality, whether caused by overcompression or the myriad fundamental problems of DBS transmission and reception, was driving me nuts. I see no artifacting on my digital channels at all. None. Apparently the cable industry has been taking DBS companies as a serious threat and they have gotten their act together, at least as far as picture quality goes.


Unless something has changed since I left cable 10 months or so ago there were a lot more compression artifacts on my digital cable system than I've ever seen on DirecTV. I'm sure that on average they are still as good or better than cable for PQ, which means that there are probably at least as many cable providers that are worse than those that are better.

I'm not really sure what the "myriad fundamental problems" of DBS are you speak of are but with a properly installed system problems should be pretty far and few between.

I do agree with as far as PQ goes DirecTV can stand to be a lot more competitive.



Posted by: JimSpence

Before we judge too much about DirecTV's PQ, let's wait and see what DirecTV does after 7s is launched and put online.

I agree that the TiVo side needs to start adding some features, namely, folders, batch save, and soft padding. PiP is not a priority in my opinion.

I for one like the fact that with DirecTV I don't have to worry about cable lineup changes causing problems.



Posted by: AbMagFab

To the original poster:

1) It's not a Tivo issue, it's a guide issue.

2) Stop using Tivo like a VCR. I know the cable-DVR's pretty much force you into that model, but you'll be a lot happier when you use Tivo like a Tivo.

3) If you're hell-bent on manual recordings as your method of dealing with the guide issues, set it up using any of the myriad of suggestions here.

For Howard Stern, I tried a number of ways, including the "Season-Pass-Clean-Up-The-To-Do-List-Weekly", the "Low-Priority-Wishlist", the "Only-Record-Three-Episodes", and have ended up with the "Monday-Friday-Manual-Recording".

So, now it's there, and I've forgotten about it. It works. And my 53 other Season Passes work the way I want, not like a digital VCR.

Give in to the Tivo... trust us... you'll be happy...



Posted by: RyMcQ

quote:
Originally posted by MixMasterMark
I have learned a valuable lesson - you get what you pay for. DirecTV is cheaper than digital cable - but the steadily worsening picture quality, whether caused by overcompression or the myriad fundamental problems of DBS transmission and reception, was driving me nuts. I see no artifacting on my digital channels at all. None. Apparently the cable industry has been taking DBS companies as a serious threat and they have gotten their act together, at least as far as picture quality goes.


Hawaii cable must be an outlier. Every digital cable system I have watched has much worse artifacting than DTV. (Not saying that there isn't a problem with DTV artifacting.)



Posted by: coreynyc

You are the 2nd person in this thread to tell me not to use the Tivo like a VCR but the problem is, that is the sort of functionality I want and expect.

I want my Tivo to record what I want it to. I will probably upgrade my hard drive, eventually. But for now, I want to set my Tivo to record what I want it to without having to do tons of “housecleaning”.

I want to see the nightly broadcasts of my favorite shows such as Daily Show, Tough Crowd, Howard Stern, Conan O’Brien, without having to contend with going back into the list to delete all the various repeats and rebroadcasts that occur several times a day for each show. The only work around is to do a bunch of 1 day manual recordings because Conan either officially airs Tues-Sat or the times I want to record the cable shows are typically the 2nd airings, which are also Tues-Sat.

Tivo only allows M-F, 7 day, or 1 day manual records. I’m not a programmer but I don’t think it’s too hard to either add some flexibility to Season Passes or Manual Recording to get this accomplished.

This is the functionality I want and expect. I don’t think I’m being too demanding. Part of the problem is the guide data, which I understand. I’m looking for a simple workaround.

IMHO, Tivo is also sorely lacking a Picture In Guide/List/etc. Every time I decide I need to record something else, I have to leave the program I am watching to do so. Furthermore, if you are watching live TV & not recording anything else, you should be able to watch live or recorded PIP.

Tivo is a great device and I know you guys are loyal users. But you should really open your eyes, Tivo is not as good as some of you blindly suggest. All in all, I am happy with it but after using a product that is supposedly inferior (cable DVR), I know that Tivo can be better….after all, they are the originator of the DVR lifestyle.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
You are the 2nd person in this thread to tell me not to use the Tivo like a VCR but the problem is, that is the sort of functionality I want and expect.

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
Tivo only allows M-F, 7 day, or 1 day manual records.

Ummm, that's just just like a VCR. See, you got your wish -- when it comes to recording, your TiVo has the same sort of VCR functionality that you want and expect. ;D

Seriously, I think you're right. I wouldn't imagine it to be hard to add a few more options in the manual recording area.

It was interesting to read some comments on the TWC DVR from other users:
http://www.gearbits.com/archives/000173.html
(let the page load, hit the END button on your keyboard, and then read from the bottom up). Interesting to read some of the schedulding problems that they run into.



Posted by: TrojanHorse

Maybe you have just adapted your viewing habits to a different device and are now complaining because TiVo doesn't function in identically the same way.

It sounds like WE all prefer the way TiVo manges programs, with a few admitted improvement-wishes. I laugh at all my Dish buddies who miss shows when the air time changes. I laugh when they miss shows because they are already recording one show. I laugh when cable customers get static in channels 1-100 because "digital" does not mean "all channels are digital"

You really are fooling yourself if you think that people here somehow think TiVo is perfect- 30% of all posts lament certain missing features (HMO anybody? USB? no land phone line? THREE tuners?) but the things you find critical don't frequently appear as a wish item.



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

I've only had my D* TIVO a couple weeks, but I've found it to be easier and faster to set up Season Passes and Wish Lists and to then delete individual programs you don't want to record from the To Do List. I purge my To Do List on a weekly basis (or sometimes I go a full two weeks out). And, if I miss deleting a duplicate broadcast, so what? I can delete the recorded show no problem.

With the fact that a couple channels regularly move some of my favorite shows to different time slots every time I turn around, I'd much rather run the risk of a duplicate recording than miss an episode entirely. If you're afraid of running out of space, you need a bigger hard drive. Upgraded functionality would be a plus for the D* TIVO, but manual recording is not the workaround I'd use in the mean time, but that's just me. If I wanted to settle for manual recording, I could keep using my trusty old VCR.

As for PIP, I can do that if I want to. I've got my E86 HD STB hooked up to the same TV as my D*TIVO. Of course, I'd have to put down the TIVO remote and use the TV remote. I can't say I've felt the need. But I must say that I do sometimes switch to the HD STB while the TIVO is processing a change to my Wish List or Season Pass List. It's so slow (I keep telling myself that the box is still doing that background indexing thing, but I doubt it). Maybe I have more Season Passes and Wish List shows than most people typically do. So, far that's my biggest complaint, except for the concern that the D* logo on the TIVO menu screens is going to eventually burn in on my RPTV. I hope they do something about that bright blue static logo. I don't think I have permanent damage yet, but I have noticed a temporary ghost image in yellow on light backgrounds once in a while after spending time in the menus. Now I try to spend as little time in the menus as possible.



Posted by: TooMuchTV

Another advantage of the show based approach versus the time-slot based approach is what happens during the off-season. I have something like 45 season passes set up. A lot of them (like HBO shows, Six Feet Under, etc.) are not in season right now. Not a problem for a first-run season pass.

I too had problems with the Daily Show and Howard Stern. Even when I did go to a time based approach, I found that time-slots sometimes shifted, others shows were put in place of the one I wanted, or re-runs were aired.

There is no perfect method, but I have to say that TiVo's show-based approach seems to meet my needs 95% of the time, which is much better than if I were setting everything up based on a time-slot.

After having TiVo for 2+ years, I can barely remember what night my shows actually air on, let alone what TIME they are on.



Posted by: AbMagFab

If you want to use it like a VCR, then you're going to have some limits. You also won't enjoy the Tivo nearly as much as you could.

Instead of complaining that multiple people are telling you the same thing, perhaps listen to the advice and try it out? There's a reason why people give in to the Tivo-lution so quickly and so thoroughly. And there's no Jim Jones to help us along.

And there's a reason why Tivo is like the most successful consumer electronics device due to word-of-mount almost exclusively. I would love to see an official satisfaction survey, but it would have to be in the 95%+ range.

How many people who have a Tivo have said anything other than "OMG, I love it!" Now how many other consumer electronic devices have that same result?



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by AbMagFab
Instead of complaining that multiple people are telling you the same thing, perhaps listen to the advice and try it out? There's a reason why people give in to the Tivo-lution so quickly and so thoroughly. And there's no Jim Jones to help us along.

And there's a reason why Tivo is like the most successful consumer electronics device due to word-of-mount almost exclusively. I would love to see an official satisfaction survey, but it would have to be in the 95%+ range.

How many people who have a Tivo have said anything other than "OMG, I love it!" Now how many other consumer electronic devices have that same result?


What's the big deal with what Corey wants? A few more "manual recording" options and to be able to watch TV while going thru the TV menus? And honestly, I think people give in to the TiVo-lution because the idea of time-shifting is so awesome, and until now, TiVo's had no competition that's managed to last.

Honestly, now that TiVo's FINALLY getting some competition, they really should listen to folks like Corey ... because if they don't, their competition surely will!

Love my DTiVos, love the little TiVo guy, blah, blah and blah, but not presumptous enough to think that TiVo can't learn something from another DVR.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by aristoBrat
What's the big deal with what Corey wants? A few more "manual recording" options and to be able to watch TV while going thru the TV menus? And honestly, I think people give in to the TiVo-lution because the idea of time-shifting is so awesome, and until now, TiVo's had no competition that's managed to last.

Honestly, now that TiVo's FINALLY getting some competition, they really should listen to folks like Corey ... because if they don't, their competition surely will!

Love my DTiVos, love the little TiVo guy, blah, blah and blah, but not presumptous enough to think that TiVo can't learn something from another DVR.



Aristobrat, thank you for understanding my position. There are more than a few people here drinking the Tivo Kool Aid.

YES! Tivo is a great product.
YES! The Digital Cable DVR has some featurs that Tivo does not.
YES! Tivo has some features that the Digital Cable DVR does not.

Its OK to admit that Tivo can be and should improved. Just because Tivo is not a VCR does not mean it can't function as one if the user so chooses. This user would rather not have to do housekeeping on the Tivo, Tivo is supposed to be a time saver.

Some people use their PC's to edit digital video and others use it to play solitare. Both users are using their PC's properly, as they see fit.



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

I think deleting a few duplicate programs in the To Do List each week or two is a lot quicker than checking the TV listings daily to make sure none of my programs have been shifted to new time slots and programming daily manual recordings, but hey, to each his own.

And, I don't think anyone has said that the current TIVO software is perfect and wouldn't benefit from some enhancements. I just hope they give us some more flexiblity in fine tuning Season Passes and Wish Lists, speed up the thing a little and fix the potential burn-in issue with the big blue D* logo before they add more options to the manual recording routines. But I respect your right to have your own list of priorities for the TIVO sofware programmers. I just hope they fix my issues first.

:)



Posted by: smak

I have a feeling that about 100% of Tivo users would put "adding a Tuesday-Sunday" manual recording option about 475th on their list of things to add/change.

When they get done with the first 474, then they can start to program things to make Tivo more like a VCR...

476th would to make the front flash 12:00

-smak-



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by smak
I have a feeling that about 100% of Tivo users would put "adding a Tuesday-Sunday" manual recording option about 475th on their list of things to add/change.

More like you get to see all 7 days listed on the manual record screen and can press SELECT by each one that you want to record on...



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by aristoBrat
More like you get to see all 7 days listed on the manual record screen and can press SELECT by each one that you want to record on...


Aristobrat, once again you beat me to the punch. Thanks.



Posted by: Jonathan_S

quote:
476th would to make the front flash 12:00
Actually there is a code for the DVD/Tivos to make them do that. :)



Posted by: yunlin12

Is that code hard coded to do only 12:00? like SPS30S can only do 30 sec but not 60 sec? What if I'm used to a 24 hour time format, and want my Tivo to flash 00:00 or 24:00? :)



Posted by: Jonathan_S

Looks like it is just a hard code to do 12:00. (Any might only work on the Pioneer units)

Here is a post describing the code and its affect.

VCRCLOCK = blinking 12:00
KNIGHTRIDER = display doing the KITT scanner



Posted by: sangs

quote:
Originally posted by JimSpence
Before we judge too much about DirecTV's PQ, let's wait and see what DirecTV does after 7s is launched and put online. I agree that the TiVo side needs to start adding some features, namely, folders, batch save, and soft padding. PiP is not a priority in my opinion. I for one like the fact that with DirecTV I don't have to worry about cable lineup changes causing problems.


Yeah, the thing is though, I've been reading about 7s "launch" for what seems like an eternity now and I'm really getting tired of the PQ degredation. Watching some of the sports subscription channels is just downright painful sometimes.

When I had both Comcast and D*, I would more often than not choose to watch the Comcast feed if I had both stations, but I finally dumped them, primarily because of DirecTivo. Comcast didn't (and still doesn't) offer a PVR in my area. I really hope my HD DirecTivo experience goes smoothly, because Comcast is supposed to be offering HD PVRs by June here and that could lure me back.

A friend of mine in NYC has the TW PVR and I have to say, I was impressed by it. He had it working with two tuners, but connected to just one incoming cable.



Posted by: JimSpence

All's quiet on the 7s launch thread on DBS Talk forum.



Posted by: TonyD79

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
Aristobrat, thank you for understanding my position. There are more than a few people here drinking the Tivo Kool Aid.

YES! Tivo is a great product.
YES! The Digital Cable DVR has some featurs that Tivo does not.
YES! Tivo has some features that the Digital Cable DVR does not.

Its OK to admit that Tivo can be and should improved. Just because Tivo is not a VCR does not mean it can't function as one if the user so chooses. This user would rather not have to do housekeeping on the Tivo, Tivo is supposed to be a time saver.

Some people use their PC's to edit digital video and others use it to play solitare. Both users are using their PC's properly, as they see fit.



Okay. So people were trying to be nice to you and tried to help you with useful advice. Your reaction is to b*tch and moan about the advice.

But the term "TiVo Kool Aid" makes me wonder if you don't have an agenda.

You know what. Who cares what you think? Of course we at TC don't think TiVo is perfect. That is why there is a whole forum for improvements and suggestions. YOUR complaint about M-F is really, really, really trivial because most of us who have been using TiVo for a while have tried manual recordings and have found that they are a waste of time except in extreme situations.

So, you don't want to have to delete one show a week from the To Do List? Boo Hoo. (But, guess, what you don't HAVE to delete it...you can just let it record and ignore it. Or, you can go back to a VCR.)

Your entire purpose of being here seems to be to say your cable DVR was better. No other posts, right? So, in my mind, that makes you look awful troll like.

Just why did you bring this here if you didn't want to hear advice from other users anyway?



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
Okay. So people were trying to be nice to you and tried to help you with useful advice. Your reaction is to b*tch and moan about the advice.


Interesting. People posted something to the effect that I wanted to use the Tivo like a VCR and suggested that I need "help". I just started this thread to complain/see advice. Plus, I beleive I thanked some people who gave me some actual advice in this thread.

quote:
But the term "TiVo Kool Aid" makes me wonder if you don't have an agenda.


Yeah. Time Warner and General Instruments sent me here to topple DirecTV and Tivo, one post at a time. Bwahahahahahahah! Congrats on outing my conspiracy.

Your blind defense of Tivo is exactly what I am talking about.

quote:
You know what. Who cares what you think? Of course we at TC don't think TiVo is perfect. That is why there is a whole forum for improvements and suggestions. YOUR complaint about M-F is really, really, really trivial because most of us who have been using TiVo for a while have tried manual recordings and have found that they are a waste of time except in extreme situations.

So, you don't want to have to delete one show a week from the To Do List? Boo Hoo. (But, guess, what you don't HAVE to delete it...you can just let it record and ignore it. Or, you can go back to a VCR.)

Your entire purpose of being here seems to be to say your cable DVR was better. No other posts, right? So, in my mind, that makes you look awful troll like.

Just why did you bring this here if you didn't want to hear advice from other users anyway?



Wow! Someone really needs to relax.

I knew someone was going to accuse me of trolling way back in the first line of my first post. This thread contains my only recent posts because I just got DTivo last week and any other questions I have were already answered in other threads. The search button is a wonderful thing.

Plus I guess it neevr occured to you to compare the number of posts I have and then counting how man of them are in tis thread. I have posted several times in the past, which I guess you have chosen to ignore.

As I get more experienced with DTivo, you can look forward to more posts from me in the future.

Season Passes are far from fool proof for many shows (including many of my favorites), thanks to sometimes non-existant show descriptions in the guide and multiple airings of the same shows. By allowing a minimal amount of customization to Season Passes, many well documented problems could be avoided.

I am trying to make the most of my 40hr capacity right now rather than investing in an upgrade. Having several hours of programs I've already viewed (and don't want to save) on my hard drive is a real PITA. I would rather not have to worry about losing/deleting or not being able to record something because my Tivo is full.

People get evangellical about Tivo and it is a very good product. However, it is not the be all and end all. Tivo seems to be resting on its laurels right now and with Digital Cable's improvements and Mr. Murdoch set to unveil DirecTV DVR boxes, they shouldn't be.

My OP served two purposes--I was seeking help and I was pointing out that the Tivo alternatives out there aren't as bad as people say. They even have features that Tivo completely lacks and should have incorporated.

No one may care what I think, but I am entitled to my opinion.



Posted by: curtis0620

Season Passes far from fool proof? That's funny.

Mine work 100% of the time, I have never missed a show I set up a SP for.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by curtis0620
Season Passes far from fool proof? That's funny.

Mine work 100% of the time, I have never missed a show I set up a SP for.



When it records shows you have already recorded, viewed, and deleted and/or it records the same exact episode of a show that is already currently saved on your hard drive, I'd say it is not perfect.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by curtis0620
Season Passes far from fool proof? That's funny.

Mine work 100% of the time, I have never missed a show I set up a SP for.


If you have a Season Pass for The Daily Show (or Howard Stern) set to record "New Episodes Only", you'd miss quite a few episodes because those shows regularly have bad guide data.



Posted by: curtis0620

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
When it records shows you have already recorded, viewed, and deleted and/or it records the same exact episode of a show that is already currently saved on your hard drive, I'd say it is not perfect.


Doesn't do that for me, I guess I watch the right shows.



Posted by: paulfife

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
When it records shows you have already recorded, viewed, and deleted and/or it records the same exact episode of a show that is already currently saved on your hard drive, I'd say it is not perfect.


It's as perfect as the guide data, which fortunately is accurate for almost all shows. Unfortunately you watch most of the ones with bad data. While it would be nice to have some of the improvements to features used for workarounds, better would be to have proper guide data for those shows.



Posted by: tmprly banned

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
....

People get evangellical about Tivo and it is a very good product. However, it is not the be all and end all. Tivo seems to be resting on its laurels right now and with Digital Cable's improvements and Mr. Murdoch set to unveil DirecTV DVR boxes, they shouldn't be.
....



my friend- I hear ya- try to set up season pass for your favorite baseball team on the local sports network- same type of issues. My advice- get a $50 120 gigi hardrive and juice the beast- you''ll be thrilled you did.

Wanted to give you a heads up on directv though- not sure reading your comments what you meant. FIrst A stand alone Tivo is a vast difference from a Directv DVR. ALthough directv pays tivo to write the software on those boxes, tivo is not incontrol and Directv seems to frequentaly say no to Tivo's attempts to add new features - ir even just fix bugs for that matter. Although the directv combo boxes have a pile of hardware advantages, the software is definately second class to a stand alone tivo (But the season pass issue is still on those too...)

Tivo has announced a bunch of new features for their stand alone boxes- basically realted to home media option but they are not siutting on their laurals there.


ALso besides the currect directv dvr's that are "powered by tivo" the HD Directv DVR just comeing off the assembly line is also tivo powerd, and a new cheaper to produce Directv DVR coming out later htis year is also apparently tivo powered.



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

Maybe you should complain to the channels/shows that don't provide accurate guide data. Their lack of attention is what's really causing the problem.



Posted by: TonyD79

Yo, Corey.

You still don't get it, do you?

You are complaining about having to delete ONE half-hour per week! That will really fill up your drive, won't it?

Then you complain about repeated recordings of shows that don't have proper guide data but want your old DVR back because you could set up a M-Th manual recording. Gee, seems to me that that would record reruns all the time that you would have to delete.

You are just bitchin and moaning. And just because I typed a lot of words you think I need to relax? So happens that I typed that in about the time it would take me to speak it. I type really, really fast. Not tense at all.

And, yes, you qualify as a troll. When folks were telling you you are using your TiVo as a VCR, that was advice. YOU took it as a slam.

And, you don't have to be alilgned with any corporate entity to be a troll.

So, live ain't perfect and neither is TiVo. Boo Hoo! But when others tell you that what you are asking for is low on their priority list (and, BTW, your SUGGESTION belongs in the SUGGESTION forum), you say they are blind to any flaws. Yeah, right. Maybe you need to read where just about everyone who answered you has criticized a specific aspect of TiVo.

YOUR ATTITUDE is what prompted me to write that you seem trollish to me. Maybe you need to understand what 'help' means. It means help this guy understand how he can make best use of the tool he has rather than just bitching.

Good day.

And, ooooh! You posted 4 whole posts on other threads! Wow! I am amazed! Sorry if I don't follow your every word.

Now, post your SUGGESTION for M-Th manual recordings in the proper forum and LISTEN to folks who tell you they already had the experience you had and what they did.

Nah, you don't want advice. Because when people gave you advice, it didn't match your pre-conceived notion that your old DVR was better, so you reject it. Now, that is real positive.



Posted by: curtis0620

I say why doesn't he just record it a 11pm, that would solve his problem. M-F @ 11:00. I think he just wants to complain.



Posted by: wraith1

Yeah....and your mother watches old episodes of "Combat" on an ancient betamax!

Seriously, nobody that I've met on this forum is deluded enough to imagine that any piece of technology deserves unquestioning loyalty. By and large, I think the ballpoint pen is an advancement over the pencil. But, that is not to say that the pencil does not enjoy certain advantages over the pen. Still, if a pencil-loyalist criticized the pen for running out of ink while a pencil could be resharpened, I would doubtless point out that one can reconstitute a pen by simply inserting an ink refill cartridge. Now, that pencil-loyalist might well respond by claiming that it is easier to sharpen the pencil than to purchase and install a new cartridge in a pen. Certainly that would be a more familiar practice for the pencil-loyalist. But, I think you would agree that if the pencil-loyalist continued to castigate the ballpoint for its inability to be sharpened that those accustomed to the pen might suspect that the pencil-loyalist's complaint was unreasonable or even polemical.
Corey, perhaps a pencil really is the best writing instrument for your unique purposes. I am reminded of a story concerning pens and the space race. NASA spent literally millions of dollars developing a pen that would function in the zero gravity of space. The Russian cosmonauts used pencils. If there are no pencils available to you, then make the best of your pen. Perhaps, in time, you will come to appreciate the ol' ballpoint. In the meantime, you can offer "Suggestions" to BIC and Papermate for developing an even better pen...maybe even a pen that can be sharpened!



Posted by: Jonathan_S

quote:
I am reminded of a story concerning pens and the space race. NASA spent literally millions of dollars developing a pen that would function in the zero gravity of space. The Russian cosmonauts used pencils.
Sorry for the thread hijack, but this fable is a sore spot for me. NASA didn't spend millions to develop the space pen. In fact NASA didn't develop the space pen at all; a private company, Fisher, did. Here is their history page for the space pen.

Fisher sold the pens to NASA at IIRC $1.75 each. The same price the company sold them to the public. And for that mater sold them to the Russians. Prior to this pen NASA astronauts did in fact use pencils as did the Russian cosmonauts. But pencil tips break and pencils 'lead' is actually graphite which is electrically conductive; having graphite dust and pieces floating around in zero gravity where they could short out electrical equipment was a bad thing. Which is why both NASA and the Russians switched to pens when they became available.

(Of course NASA does have it share of overly expensive boondoggles, this just isn't one of them)



Posted by: wraith1

And there you have it, Corey, the real value of this forum. Most of us enjoy this little spot in the ether because we can share experiences, anecdotes and the occasional bit of wisdom. I have to confess, though, that it is sometimes painful to discover that a favorite tale is apocryphal. When I was in college, I had a Latin professor who let the air out of one such story. It involved the etymology of the word, "sincere." As an altar boy, I had been told that the origin of "sincere" was to be found in two Latin words, "sine" (without) and "cera" (smearing with wax). As the story went, the disintegration of the Roman Empire was accompanied by the physical deterioration of Rome's grand architecture. To preserve the cosmetic appearance of crumbling marble columns, wax would be smeared into the cracks so as to give the impression of uncompromised solidity. The word, "sincere," (without wax) thus signified a condition of wholeness or genuineness.

A wonderful story; but untrue, sadly. The irony of the little tale was that, by its own debunked definition, the story itself was not sincere. Which begs the question, what then is the root of the word, "sincere?" For the unsatisfying answer to that question, I refer you to your favorite dictionary.



Posted by: jaymerkramer3

After reading this post I need to go play with my Tivo, I've had one since October 2001 and now have 3 in the house, I have never done a manual recording. I never really saw the need for it with Tivo, but I guess it has its uses.



Posted by: wraith1

BTW, corroboration for Jonathan's explanation can be found at: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/s/spacepen.htm



Posted by: DJRobX

quote:
I'd agree that they should add the tue-sat option for early morning shows.
I posted about that years ago. In my opinon, TiVo has dropped the ball somewhat when it comes to refinining up their user interface. There has not been a significant usability update since Version 2.0. There are tons of outstanding minor gripes and greivances that really should have been fixed by now. Addressing ways to deal with shows that don't have good guide data is a huge area where TiVo needs work, yet it's sat untouched for years now.

Don't get me wrong, I love my TiVo. I just think they lost their focus on their core product after Version 2.5. I even saw something really cool like Teach TiVo, vanish into obscurity. I'm not dissatisfied with the product at all, it's been a very reliable product that's given us many years of enjoyment, but I'm much less enamored by TiVo, inc. as I once was.

-- Rob



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by DJRobX
Addressing ways to deal with shows that don't have good guide data is a huge area where TiVo needs work, yet it's sat untouched for years now.

For as many "gee whiz" features as other areas of TiVo has, it's always amazed me that its "manual recording" area offers nothing more than an average VCR has: "1 day", "7 days", and "Mon-Fri".

Maybe that's because they don't want the stand-alone crowd to buy TiVo, not get a subscription, and just use it as a "SuperVCR".



Posted by: MixMasterMark

It is just amazing to me that so many topics on this forum degrade down to idiots insulting each other over their opinions, or downright ridiculing users who are trying to provide alternative viewpoints. It's just sad how some people act when they feel the protection of being anonymous.



Posted by: David Platt

quote:
Originally posted by MixMasterMark
It is just amazing to me that so many topics on this forum degrade down to idiots insulting each other over their opinions.


Do you even see the irony in your own statement? You're complaining about others insulting people. To do it, you're in turn insulting them by calling them idiots.



Posted by: MixMasterMark

There would have been no need for my statement if users here were even moderately civilized.



Posted by: wraith1

Patience is the virtue I most wish to acquire. Talk about irony! When I got up this morning, one of my Macs (on an ethernet LAN) was behaving oddly. The Safari web browser refused to launch. But IE would kick into gear without a problem. Upon rebooting (the usual fix for ALL electronics, including Tivo), the system (Panther) would hang right before hitting the desktop. Booting from a repair utility disk, I was notified that one of the partitioned volumes on an attached Firewire drive was mauled. So I rebooted under old OS 9 and set Disk Warrior (a sometimes miraculous utility) to work on recreating the directory on the clobbered volume. Nine hours later, trusty Disk Warrior is still patiently working away having identified 111 (and counting) overlapped files. Warrior is still at Step 6 of 11. But, it utters not a squeak of complaint. It just keeps trucking. I, on the other hand, wander into the office every half hour or so grumbling about the amount of time the repair is taking.

After reading a couple of the posts on this thread, I realized that if I had even half the patience of my trusty Disk Warrior, I would forget most of the four-letter expletives that too frequently color my remarks. ....(Ol' DW is now up to 112 overlapped files)



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by TonyD79
Yo, Corey.

You still don't get it, do you?

You are complaining about having to delete ONE half-hour per week! That will really fill up your drive, won't it?



We're talking about several shows that air several times a night. It's hours per day!

quote:
Then you complain about repeated recordings of shows that don't have proper guide data but want your old DVR back because you could set up a M-Th manual recording. Gee, seems to me that that would record reruns all the time that you would have to delete.



Being that these shows only have repeats when they rarely go on vacation (with the exception of Howard Stern), thats not nearly as big of a deal.

quote:
You are just bitchin and moaning. And just because I typed a lot of words you think I need to relax? So happens that I typed that in about the time it would take me to speak it. I type really, really fast. Not tense at all.



You need to relax because you've tried to turn my OP into a controversy that you are clearly getting way to worked up about. I correctly predicted in my OP that a Tivo zealot would accuse me of trolling. Funny thing is, you're the troll.

quote:
And, yes, you qualify as a troll. When folks were telling you you are using your TiVo as a VCR, that was advice. YOU took it as a slam.



I don't consider snide remarks as advice. Besides, considering that several others have posted in this thread that they have the same problems with shows they record.


quote:
So, live ain't perfect and neither is TiVo. Boo Hoo! But when others tell you that what you are asking for is low on their priority list (and, BTW, your SUGGESTION belongs in the SUGGESTION forum), you say they are blind to any flaws. Yeah, right. Maybe you need to read where just about everyone who answered you has criticized a specific aspect of TiVo.



Its funny how you casually ignore all the people in this thread who had the same complaint as me much like you ignore ever time I prove you wrong.

quote:
YOUR ATTITUDE is what prompted me to write that you seem trollish to me. Maybe you need to understand what 'help' means. It means help this guy understand how he can make best use of the tool he has rather than just bitching.



Its cute how you attempt to turn me into the one who's doing the attacking...it really is.

quote:
And, ooooh! You posted 4 whole posts on other threads! Wow! I am amazed! Sorry if I don't follow your every word.



You seem to be doing a pretty good job of following my every word. Besides, you really ought to do 10 seconds of research next time you make a silly accusation. The search button is your friend.

Now, post your SUGGESTION for M-Th manual recordings in the proper forum and LISTEN to folks who tell you they already had the experience you had and what they did.

quote:
Nah, you don't want advice. Because when people gave you advice, it didn't match your pre-conceived notion that your old DVR was better, so you reject it. Now, that is real positive.



LOL! It was a preconceived notive because I had a digital cable DVR before (also known as PRE) I owned a DTivo.

You really ought to give this silly campaign up.



Posted by: ThreeSoFar

The wishlists are the coolest thing your old DVR did not have. I love when a newly recorded show pops up on my Now Showing list that I asked for months ago.

Despite using three having owned four (and soon to be five) TiVos, I am basically a cheap person. Combine that with not enjoying children and obnoxious behavior in theaters, and I seldom see a first run movie. When one is out that I know for sure I want to see, I make sure it will catch an already running ARWL or add a new one specifically for when that movie hits HBO/SHO.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by ThreeSoFar
The wishlists are the coolest thing your old DVR did not have. I love when a newly recorded show pops up on my Now Showing list that I asked for months ago.

Despite using three having owned four (and soon to be five) TiVos, I am basically a cheap person. Combine that with not enjoying children and obnoxious behavior in theaters, and I seldom see a first run movie. When one is out that I know for sure I want to see, I make sure it will catch an already running ARWL or add a new one specifically for when that movie hits HBO/SHO.



There is no question that wishlists are the clear and main advantage of Tivo vs. DVR's.

However, there are numerous features that I've already discussed in this thread that DVR's have and Tivo sorely lacks.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, with two tuners, DTivo should absolutely offer PIP and and PI Guide/List/Settings (like the DVR I had from Time Warner).



Posted by: Scott D

It's obvious where the problem is. coreynyc, it seems to me that TiVo is the problem all along. TiVo is not the problem. Now, I don't watch the shows you watch. They are not my taste, but the real problem is the program guide data. All I hear from you is how "bad" TiVo is and how "wonderful" TWC DVR is.

Well, let's face the facts now. What if (in a perfect world) all the data guides are correct. I bet all the DVR's will record what you want to watch. You won't be in here telling us about all the problems you are having. That's not the case, now is it? TiVo is not the problem in this case. It's nothing but a program doing what it's told to do. The program works just fine. The problem is the scheduling data. Ever hear the phrase "Garbage in, garbage out"? You want to fix the problem, go to where the problem exists and that is the guide data area. The guide data that is sent to us is flawed. If I knew a way to send in suggestions or problems to the people in charge of putting the guide data all together, I'd tell you. I assure you that this is not a TiVo problem.

Why should TiVo or any other DVR have to change simply because the information that is being sent to it is incorrect. Just repair the broken area. In this case, the guide data area.



Posted by: BrettStah

Scott, unfortunately that's sort of like saying that we don't need air bags and seat belts in cars, because the problem is with the bad drivers. We're never going to have perfect guide data all the time for all channels/shows.

While I find the issues raised here easily worked around with the current software, it would be nice to have some additional options for season passes and wishlists.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by Scott D
Just repair the broken area. In this case, the guide data area.

If it was fixable, I'd think that TiVo would fix it before sending emails like this out to TiVo owners:

Unfortunately, The Daily Show isn't the only popular program that makes this a regular practice (The Osbournes, anyone?), so when you run into this situation, here are a couple of things you can do to avoid the multiple recordings and/or regular visits to the To Do List:
<snip>
Finally, there's always this option: Write a letter to Jon Stewart himself (he talks up TiVo all the time, you'd think he'd relate), and tell him to, well... get with the program (details) already!




Posted by: Scott D

quote:
Scott, unfortunately that's sort of like saying that we don't need air bags and seat belts in cars, because the problem is with the bad drivers. We're never going to have perfect guide data all the time for all channels/shows.


Apples to oranges here. So what's your point? That comparison that you gave does not apply here.

OK, bottom line. Is the TiVo bad or is the guide data bad? Pick one. If the TiVo AND guide data is bad, then we got a big problem.

Since you like apples and oranges so much, what if we buy a computer program and it doesn't work on my computer, your computer and everybody else's computer. Does that mean all of our computers are bad? Does that mean the software is good?

Point is, TiVo, TWC and many other DVR's WILL NOT WORK if the guide data is incorrect. Now, you can screw around and try to adapt all the DVR's in the world to work with the bad guide data, or you can just fix the real problem. The guide data.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by Scott D
Point is, TiVo, TWC and many other DVR's WILL NOT WORK if the guide data is incorrect. Now, you can screw around and try to adapt all the DVR's in the world to work with the bad guide data, or you can just fix the real problem. The guide data.

IMO, there's "no fixing" bad guide data when the issue is that the show doesn't release any.

The point is that TiVo less-than-gracefully handles manual recordings in some situations.

Nobody's asking for "trying to adapt all the DVR's in the world to work with bad guide data" -- just the simple ability to be able to select the days that you want your manual recording to record on.

Instead of asking if a manual recording is for "1 day", "7 days", or "Mon-Fri", simply show all seven days on the screen and let the user press SELECT by each day that they want their recording to record.



Posted by: Scott D

I have read reports that the broadcasters are not releasing the proper information to the people that put together the guides. What's so hard about putting some details pertaining to the program that is to be shown? You know the broadcasters, say ESPN, knows exactly what they are showing. Would it make sense to you to receive a listing that called "NFL's Greatest Moments" as the title with no description to it whatsoever? There are quite a few of them! Why not have ESPN add New England VS Houston to describe exactly what it is about.

As far as what Coreynyc is concerned, I have a question for you. Would you be satisfied if the guide data has more information given to you so that you would not record duplicates or to be able to choose which broadcast you want to record? Would that be worthwhile to you? Isn't the whole idea to have the DVR do all the work for you?



Posted by: BrettStah

quote:
Originally posted by Scott D
Apples to oranges here. So what's your point? That comparison that you gave does not apply here.

OK, bottom line. Is the TiVo bad or is the guide data bad? Pick one. If the TiVo AND guide data is bad, then we got a big problem.

Since you like apples and oranges so much, what if we buy a computer program and it doesn't work on my computer, your computer and everybody else's computer. Does that mean all of our computers are bad? Does that mean the software is good?

Point is, TiVo, TWC and many other DVR's WILL NOT WORK if the guide data is incorrect. Now, you can screw around and try to adapt all the DVR's in the world to work with the bad guide data, or you can just fix the real problem. The guide data.

My point is that with more recording options, Tivo users could more easily and accurately decide what will get recorded. For example, sometimes the guide data for The Simpsons is screwed up, causing my First Run Only season pass to record syndicated episodes during the week. This prevents lower priority stuff from recording. I want The Simpsons to be recorded on Sundays only, and only the new episodes. I can't easily do that right now. However, if the Tivo software allowed me to choose specific days of the week for The Simpsons season pass, I could choose Sunday, and thereby exclude the other days of the week, which would mean guide data problems for the syndicated episodes wouldn't be an issue for me. Better yet, allow me to specify a time range in addition to days of the week, so that I could specify that only episodes that start during a given time range would be recorded.

Once again, this isn't a huge deal for me... I don't lose sleep over getting some extra Simpsons episodes every so often. But having more control over season passes and wishlists would be neat to have.



Posted by: BrettStah

Another option that would be handy... give us the ability to use "NOT" in wishlists. There are some things I'd normally have a wishlist for, but don't because it returns stuff I don't want.



Posted by: coreynyc

The guide data (or lack thereof) is the culprit. So if the Tivo software was flexible enough to accomodate, I could avoid such problems.

Which, despite the claims of an excitable jerk in this thread. is my main complaint.



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

I'm not saying that the Tivo programmers shouldn't add more flexibility to the manual recording options, but truthfully, deleting one recording of one half-hour show per week doesn't seem like that big a problem whether you delete it from the To Do List or delete the actual recording itself. And, how many shows broadcast M-Th anyway? There can't be more than a couple. I don't think my newest VCR even has a M-Th recording option for scheduled recordings. I believe it only had daily, M-F or weekly (for a given day of the week).

You just need to watch more TV. If you have other Season Passes or Wish List shows that overlap the other times that Stern or The Daily Show air, you could use Wish Lists or Season Passes to do exactly what you want. Watching more TV is the answer to all our problems. :)



Posted by: mgarland

quote:
Originally posted by coreynyc
Which, despite the claims of an excitable jerk in this thread. is my main complaint.


Here, here. I don't see why people get so worked up when confronted with a legitimate question/concern.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by Crash_Corrigan
I'm not saying that the Tivo programmers shouldn't add more flexibility to the manual recording options, but truthfully, deleting one recording of one half-hour show per week doesn't seem like that big a problem whether you delete it from the To Do List or delete the actual recording itself. And, how many shows broadcast M-Th anyway? There can't be more than a couple. I don't think my newest VCR even has a M-Th recording option for scheduled recordings. I believe it only had daily, M-F or weekly (for a given day of the week).

You just need to watch more TV. If you have other Season Passes or Wish List shows that overlap the other times that Stern or The Daily Show air, you could use Wish Lists or Season Passes to do exactly what you want. Watching more TV is the answer to all our problems. :)



The problem is that Tivo is marketed and written about as if it is intuitive, flexible, and basically everything that a VCR is not. Just because a VCR doesn’t allow for something like Tues-Sat doesn’t mean that Tivo shouldn’t either.

Unfortunately, Tivo relies on guide data that the networks provide to whatever company it is that delivers it to Tivo (Tribune, I think). It is at the mercy of these companies and doesn’t provide a legitimate workaround.

Without reliable data, the Tivo loses some of its luster. A little bit of flexibility in season passes and/or manual recordings to compensate for situations that are out of Tivo’s control would go a long way to restore that luster.



Posted by: Scott D

quote:
Unfortunately, Tivo relies on guide data that the networks provide to whatever company it is that delivers it to Tivo (Tribune, I think). It is at the mercy of these companies and doesn?t provide a legitimate workaround.


Come on now, let's be fair. This also includes all the others too. Not just TiVo.

It really is a simple fix. All the broadcasters have to do is send correct data. I can understand having incorrect data from time to time but that's not the problem. The broadcasters are just not sending it right. They just want to be vague.

For instance, DTV's PPV channels. The SA models will not tell you what is airing on those channels. Instead they just list them as "PPV". The broadcasters choose not to release detailed information to the public.

If the guide data was better prepared, we wouldn't need any manual recording features. That's why it is there.



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

Again, the workaround is there. For M-Th shows, you pick M-F as your manual recording option and delete the Friday recording in the To Do List or delete it after the Friday show is recorded. For people needing a Tu-Sat option they set up two scheduled recordings, one M-F and one Sat only and they only need to delete the Monday recording each week. Deleting one show per week is not that complicated or time consuming. How many seconds does it take? Or, don't delete the extra recordings and ignore them and the Tivo will eventually delete them all by itself, assuming that you don't set the recordings to "save until I delete".

Complain to the channels in question to fix their guide data for the shows that are causing you problems. You'd prefer a slightly different bandaid that's got something extra...a different snazzy new color or pictures of hearts and butterflies on it, but no matter how you slice it, it's still only a bandaid. The ultimate cure requires the channels to fix their guide data. Tivo can't do that. D* can't do that. The content providers have to get with the program. Of course, deep down they would rather not have us timeshift and fast-forward through through their commericals anyway.

Switch to E* and see if the E* DVRs are any better than the D* Tivos. Build your own PC-based DVR. Or, move somewhere where you can get digital cable with a DVR again.

The easiest solution is to add more Season Passes that overlap your problem programs and watch more TV. Let us all put down our differences and bask in the TV's warming glow. Ummmmmmm. TV.

:)



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by mgarland
Here, here. I don't see why people get so worked up when confronted with a legitimate question/concern.

I'm just amazed that people consider "workarounds" as satisfactory long-term answers to legitmate questions/concerns. Deleting extra shows "only takes seconds", ... which is fine, unless you have six hour-long ones recording and you take a weeks vacation. There's 20% of your freaking DVR space gone to crap you don't want recorded in the first place.

Or that "fixing the guide data" is ever going to happen. How long has The Daily Show been on the air? How big of a bitch has been made over its lack of guide data? :rolleyes:



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

Have you or anyone you know emailed or actually mailed a letter to Comedy Centrail and/or the producers of The Daily Show asking for the problem to be corrected? Or, are we all expecting the network powers to visit this forum and the other forums to find out what we like and don't like.

I don't know what the percentage is of households that can view The Daily Show vs. the number of households with DVRs that can view The Daily Show, but I'd guess it's still a fairly small percentage. If you want them to fix the guide data, you need to make a stink to the content providers to fix the problem. Anything else is just a bandaid.

As for filling up you hard drive while you're on vacation, future recordings can be deleted from the To Do List. You can go farther than one week out if you choose. Or, you can spring for a bigger hard drive.



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by Crash_Corrigan
Have you or anyone you know emailed or actually mailed a letter to Comedy Centrail and/or the producers of The Daily Show asking for the problem to be corrected? Or, are we all expecting the network powers to visit this forum and the other forums to find out what we like and don't like.

I don't know what the percentage is of households that can view The Daily Show vs. the number of households with DVRs that can view The Daily Show, but I'd guess it's still a fairly small percentage. If you want them to fix the guide data, you need to make a stink to the content providers to fix the problem. Anything else is just a bandaid.

As for filling up you hard drive while you're on vacation, future recordings can be deleted from the To Do List. You can go farther than one week out if you choose. Or, you can spring for a bigger hard drive.



Or Tivo could make it easy for you to avoid such problems. Tivo, not Comedy Central, is ultimately responsible for the functionality (or lack thereof) of the technology.

Tivo should have the foresight to recognize that the guide data is never going to be 100% accurate and that human thought and intervention are necessary with some shows.

I shouldn’t have to “spring” for a larger hard drive and void my warranty just because Tivo is missing some obvious features.



Posted by: aristoBrat

quote:
Originally posted by Crash_Corrigan
Have you or anyone you know emailed or actually mailed a letter to Comedy Centrail and/or the producers of The Daily Show asking for the problem to be corrected?

Three weeks ago, TiVo emailed "News You Can Use From TiVo, Volume 48" to its subscribed owners --- who knows how many, but at least 10,000 -- asking them to contact Jon Stewart about this very issue.

Three weeks later, still bad guide data.



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

Well it obviously isn't a huge priority for Comedy Central or the producers of The Daily Show just yet. And, it isn't a top priority for Tivo. Whose to say how many people emailed John Stewart or who actually checks the email address that's reportedly John Stewart's email address, probably some lowly intern. If the response was significant the information will hopefully work its way up to the top. Who knows how long it will take. It's not like John Stewart or any of the show's creative team is directly responsible for uploading the program guide info.

For the longest time our local OTA channels where not correctly inputting their guide data and nothing was displaying in the channel guide on my Hughes E86 for the channels received via antenae. A lot of people immediately blamed D*. It wasn't D* fault. It was the lack of attention of the local affiliates to correctly input the data for their new digital channels. Folks around here eventually started to complain to the local channels and they eventually figured out that it was important for people to be able to see what was showing on their DTV and HD subchannels, and they fixed the problem. Sure, I suppose D* could have spent time and money developing a workaround that could have remapped channel guide info from the analog channel to the digital counterpart or some other patch, but it wouldn't have been 100% accurate and people would still have been unhappy.

Fixing the root of the problem makes more sense, if you ask me.



Posted by: restevns

quote:
Originally posted by MixedUpMark
I have learned a valuable lesson - you get what you pay for. DirecTV is cheaper than digital cable - but the steadily worsening picture quality, whether caused by overcompression or the myriad fundamental problems of DBS transmission and reception, was driving me nuts. I see no artifacting on my digital channels at all. None. Apparently the cable industry has been taking DBS companies as a serious threat and they have gotten their act together, at least as far as picture quality goes.


Ahhh - welcome back MixedUpMark!

And I see not much has changed, other than your location! From calling TiVo "junk" to calling us "idiots", your M.O remains perfectly consistant! Why are you on a TiVo forum, if your goal is only to tell us all how much more superior your setup is?

Trolling, perhaps?

As for your credibility - I'd love to find a critical mass behind your statement that digital cable has far better picture quality...lol!

Alas, I can already hear your response, "I have more years troubleshooting electronic components than most of you have been alive, so don't you DARE question me!"

Maybe I should go repoint my dish.

BTW the 'C' software update fixed the 'Acquiring Guide Data' message. Would you like to admit that all of your superior knowledge, and specious assertions, and belittling comments toward those of us that KNEW it was a bug, was incorrect and inflammatory?

HMMMM?



Posted by: MixMasterMark

Egad. Exactly what I was talking about. It's people like you that render this forum useless. Have fun trolling, "R", I'm not gonna bite on it.



Posted by: Fish Man

quote:
Originally posted by restevns

BTW the 'C' software update fixed the 'Acquiring Guide Data' message. Would you like to admit that all of your superior knowledge, and specious assertions, and belittling comments toward those of us that KNEW it was a bug, was incorrect and inflammatory?

HMMMM?



Oh, come on restevns,

The message went away because the spurious charges in the ionosphere cleared up. The "c" code is just a red herring!

:D :p :rolleyes:

Now, as soon as those charged particles in the troposphere re-arrange themselves a bit, they can get the HD-DTiVo released! :up: :p :D



Posted by: wraith1

Still looking at v. 3.10b xxxxx, myself (AND the "Acquiring Program Guide data from the satellite. Some data available now. Full data in 1-2 days" message) in the "To Do List" and the "Pick Programs to Record" list and the "Recording History" list. Frankly, I have become so familiar with this black band of inaccurate and useless information that I shall miss it, if and when it ever disappears.



Posted by: restevns

quote:
Originally posted by MixedUpMark
Egad. Exactly what I was talking about. It's people like you that render this forum useless. Have fun trolling, "R", I'm not gonna bite on it.


Look up the 'troll' definition so that you may properly use it.

If anything at all, I would be the opposite of a troll, that is, I could more properly be called an enthusiastic, nay, over-enthusiastic, NAY - RABID tivoangelist, and therefore feel compelled to RESPOND to troll-like comments like "junk" and "idiots".

I see your replies are as credible as your original hypothesis that there was, of course, no software bug - it was just the 'wind'.



Posted by: wraith1

According to Dictionary.com's Jargon File 4.2.0,
a "Troll" is:

"An individual who ... regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, 'Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.'"

For my part, I prefer the trolls of traditional definition who lurk under bridges waiting to leap out and to gobble up innocent passersby. Somehow, they are more honest, if not less hideous.



Posted by: Crash_Corrigan

Lo and behold, I'm seeing what may be accurate guide data for The Daily Show beginning on April 19. One less reason to pine for that cable DVR. :)

I guess that intern that checks John Stewart's email must have got enough requests for correct guide data that he told someone and they told someone who told someone else and finally someone else did something about it.

Let's hope it's not a fluke and that Comedy Central can keep feeding in up-to-date guide data. Maybe E! and the NFL Network should be targeted next to fix guide data for Howard Stern and NFL Total Access next. Anyone want to find and post the magic email addresses that will have the most impact?

Power to the Tivo People!



Posted by: coreynyc

I've had DirecTV for about 3 weeks.

For the first 2 weeks, there was new episodes and the data was good. This week, Daily Show is in repeats and the guide data is the same generic description every day.

So it appears that when they are in first runs, the data is good (at least for now).



Posted by: ToonArmy

I noticed the good guide data for new shows started up, and I also note that my TODO list shows the Tuesday and Wednesday episodes not recorded because "the same episode appeared in now playing within 28 days", which, since they were re-runs, seems appropriate.

Fingers crossed, looks like the guide data may be fixed!



Posted by: coreynyc

More shows with no guide which renders Season Passes as being useless:

Everything (Punk'd, Wild Boys, Viva La Bam) in MTV's Sunday night block, with the exception of Pimp My Ride.

Yes, I know Tivo and DirecTv are not at fault here but they need to provide a better solution to the all too often issues.

I will have to seek some these shows out every week at other airing times because I use both Tuners from 9-10 AM. Therefore I am being forced to use the Tivo as a VCR.



Posted by: BrettStah

Corey, I wouldn't call season passes useless for most shows like that (unless the show just doesn't come on at the date/time listed). Rather, it's just not as effective. I just make sure that the priority of such season passes are low enough to not interfere with anything more important, and set the Keep at Most to only a small value. (For example, I have ESPN's SportsCenter set as a low-priority season pass, set to keep one episode only. I don't really much care if it records 2 times a day or twenty... it doesn't interfere with any season passes prioritized higher than it).



Posted by: coreynyc

quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
Corey, I wouldn't call season passes useless for most shows like that (unless the show just doesn't come on at the date/time listed). Rather, it's just not as effective. I just make sure that the priority of such season passes are low enough to not interfere with anything more important, and set the Keep at Most to only a small value. (For example, I have ESPN's SportsCenter set as a low-priority season pass, set to keep one episode only. I don't really much care if it records 2 times a day or twenty... it doesn't interfere with any season passes prioritized higher than it).


So if it keeps just 1, it keeps the first one recorded, not the most recent to record?

But the bigger problem is that I typically use both tuners from 9-10PM on Sundays. So I would like to record subsequent airings.

MTV repeats the latest episode and also prior episodes in a given week. How will the Tivo know which one to record if there is no guide data (not even repeat/new)?



Posted by: BrettStah

If you set the season pass to "Keep at Most = 1 episode", and don't set the "Save Until" to "I Delete" (in other words, you leave the default setting of "Until Space Needed"), then it'll keep the most recent episode. If it records SportsCenter at 7am, and then SportsCenter is comes on again at 9am, it'll keep the 9am episode and delete the 7am one after then 9am episode finishes recording.

About your "bigger problem" about Sunday nights from 9-10PM... whatever you normally record during that timeslot, just make sure that the MTV show you want to record later on is ranked lower in Season Pass Manager. That will allow the other two shows that air during that timeslot "win" the 3-way conflict, and the MTV show won't record during it. It'll record at another timeslot in which it isn't the odd man out, so to speak. That may be 3 hours later, the next day, etc.

It will not know which is the latest episode and which ones are prior episodes, so you may need to set the "Keep at Most" to a value greater than 1 to make sure that you get the most recent one.

You can also try to contact someone at MTV to see about improving the guide data. Some shows on other channels have improved, and the suspicion is that one reason was because of viewers writing in to complain (snail mail may be more effective).




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