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ER 4/08/04 Spoilers!
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Posted by: cptodd

As soon as I saw the little domestic scene with the two mommies and baby (with the slightly cold grandmother). I knew Sandy had to die and that Carrie was not getting back the baby!

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Yeah, it was pretty obvious--but at least they didn't insult our intelligence by dragging it out!

Posted by: cptodd

True! True!

Posted by: laria

Yeah...saw that whole plotline coming a mile away. Of course if they were smart, with them in a relationship where I assume Kerry has no legal rights to the baby and Sandy being in a dangerous occupation, I would assume they would have had a will or a guardianship or both for the baby that covers such a scenario.

Posted by: joemamafresh

GOD...it was SO freakin' sad though...

Posted by: cptodd

to me it was just plain old screwed (insert other word than screwed) up!

Posted by: wonderboymi

This plotline was SOO sad, I'll be very disappointed if it turns out that Weaver doesn't get Henry back.

What's up with all the of characters on the show being killed off? and/or just leaving?

Posted by: whitson77

Is Gallant still around? I am getting caught up. We started watching season 1 a few months ago and we are almost up to 2003.

Posted by: GoodN

The last scene was heartwrenching. What an amazing performance!

Posted by: jlb.x

I said to my brother, "How long before Gallant is killed in action?"

Perhaps Lisa Vidal (Sandy) will reprise her roll on "Third Watch" (Dr. Morales) and rescue Doc from oblivion... OK, not likely. It was a bit unusual for Cordey to come so unglued in the O.R., I thought. I guess working on someone you know can have that affect, but some professionalism might have been nice too.

Obviously, we are being set up for Susan to be off the show for most of the rest of the season (bed rest required). And, I'm sure Carter's African safari will resurface in some fashion (another Hawaiian-filmed episode upcoming?). Chen's father is not much of a storyline, will he die too?

The show has really become fractured. I preferred the old days when you could actually get to know some of the characters. Now, we're expected to remember (and care about) 30 different faces each week.

Posted by: JYoung

Yeah, what's up with Gallant?
I like his character.

Posted by: firerose818

I was much more upset about Gallant leaving then Sandy dying. I think Gallant is one of the most interesting characters on the show and has a lot of potential if the writers had spent more time giving him something to do.

I wanted to like Sandy. I really wanted to care about her relationship with Kerry but it never happened. Regardless, Laura Innes' acting in the last scene was phenomenal.

-Rose

Posted by: cptodd

quote:
Originally posted by wonderboymi
This plotline was SOO sad, I'll be very disappointed if it turns out that Weaver doesn't get Henry back.

What's up with all the of characters on the show being killed off? and/or just leaving?

As far as I can tell she will not get Henry back. She will fight in court but she will lose I believe. Perhaps if the mother (sandy's mother) persuades the family I don't think she has a chance.

Posted by: grandpa49

How can she lose the baby, if she was the one who had it. I thought that the biological mother always gets the child if there is no abuse involved

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by grandpa49
How can she lose the baby, if she was the one who had it. I thought that the biological mother always gets the child if there is no abuse involved

Sandy was the one who had it. Weaver was never preggers.

Posted by: DougF

Sharif Atkins (Gallant) has been cast in a new series on NBC called "Pearl City". It starts airing in the fall, I think.

I read about that several weeks ago, so Gallant's leaving was spoiled for me already. Too bad it seemed kind of rushed and out-of-character for him.

Posted by: laria

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Weaver was never preggers.

No, she was originally. She was going to have the baby because Sandy didn't want to be pregnant, but she lost the one she was carrying and I think because of her age, they told her it would be likely to happen again.

Posted by: IJustLikeTivo

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Yeah, what's up with Gallant?
I like his character.

How did they write him out? WHen last we heard, he was in trouble for lying about ordering the meds. Did they explain last night? I haven't watched it yet.

Posted by: cptodd

They sent him to Iraq where he will probably die.

Posted by: DancnDude

quote:
Originally posted by IJustLikeTivo
How did they write him out? WHen last we heard, he was in trouble for lying about ordering the meds. Did they explain last night? I haven't watched it yet.

He just "happened" to get called into active duty in Iraq. Read: He called up his sargent and asked to be deployed because he didn't want to deal with the issue at work.

Posted by: cpalma

Being from MA, I knew they would throw that storyline in (not giving Henry back to Carrie). It's too topical not to have written it in.

I said the same thing to hubby about losing all the doctors, although Carter's trip was only supposed to last a week. I assumed he will be back next week...then no coming attractions, meaning no show next week...so will he be back on the next first run episode?

With Gallant gone (also predict KIA), I think they will probably drop the wrongful death storyline.

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Sandy was the one who had it. Weaver was never preggers.

Weaver was pregnant first, but lost the baby. She had to convince Sandy to become the mother.

... so much for my evelyn woodhead sped raden course...

Posted by: LoadStar

I don't know whether it was Sharif's choice or not to leave the show. If it was his choice, I don't blame him. Gallant is the most underutilized character on the show. It's so bad that when Neela called him Michael during the episode, I had completely forgotten that was his first name. This storyline featuring Neela is the most work he's had since he got ON the show. It's a shame too - his character was also one of the most likable and least unstable.

I too was surprised how many characters they got rid of in a single episode - Gallant, Sandy, Susan (albeit temporarily). Unfortunately, Gallant and Susan are two characters I would've liked to see MORE of. Instead, we'll be dealing with the Kerry-Henry situation for the rest of the season, and Kerry's one of the characters I'm least interested in - and one of the characters we've seen a bit too much of, with her search for her birth parents and the stuff with trying to have a baby with Sandy and stuff.

I do admit, the last scene with Kerry and Abby was really well acted.

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by cpalma
With Gallant gone (also predict KIA), I think they will probably drop the wrongful death storyline.

I'm going to bet he goes MIA not KIA. They pretty much iced the wrongful death story by having him state that he would testify to his roll, and then staunchly defend Carter. While I'm sad to see him go, I'm not surprised they had him fall on his sword on the way out. That's completely within his character.

I haven't liked much of Laura Innes over all the years, but the ending last night was powerful. One or two eps. ago she had a pleasant exchange with the grandmother. I didn't catch any issues. They were pretty obvious last night. I don't think Henry is coming back. He will simply disappear.

Can't Abby ever catch a break? I know she's supposed to be struggling with the book larn'in stuff, but would it have hurt to have her just barely pass the boards?

So looks like our next bit of drama will be the return of Samantha's ex. So we'll be getting double barrels on parental rights. Will that be enough, or will Carter and Kem end up in a dispute over their newborn?

Posted by: Rcrew

Oh, and here's a quote from a web forum's episode guide:

quote:
Dr. Chen and Pratt treat a frustrated senior citizen who does not want to burden his family with his care.

Ummm did I fall asleep and miss something? The last I recall was Chen getting frustrated and storming over to Pratt because "It's his patient". When she got there, he was on the phone because her father had burned a steak. I thought the story line dropped there. So we knew that until recently the patient had been on meds for diabetes. But did they just edit out the rest of the stuff? I'd have never guessed he was 'hiding' from his family.

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by Frozen Solid
Sharif Atkins (Gallant) has been cast in a new series on NBC called "Pearl City". It starts airing in the fall, I think.

Yeah but it looks like they are leaving it open ended so he can come back infPearl City bombs (like what they did for Abraham Benrubi)

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

I have a feeling that senior citizen story got axed for other story lines. In this show, that doesn't bother me-the whole premise of ER is that we saw patients in very fractured segements, never knowing how some of the stories ended. Still, it was a little TOO fractured.

quote:
. It was a bit unusual for Cordey to come so unglued in the O.R., I thought. I guess working on someone you know can have that affect, but some professionalism might have been nice too.

I remember her getting fairly unglued when Lucy died. Not so much so as Romano, but still...I think most of it was her having to deal with Weever losing a spouse, just like she did herself.

Speaking of, did anyone else miss Romano in this episode? He always was good for a moving scene when it came down to the wire with people he seemed to hate-always showing that he had a hidden side to him. I really miss him in this series. Sure he was a jack@ss, but he was always good for a scene or two that would catch me completely off-guard. I know McCrane has been directing quite a few ER episodes now, but still. I would have liked to see him stick around.

Nice performance by...can't remember her name...who plays Weever. I've enjoyed watching her since Wings, but this was a definite top notch performance. I was thinking when she was walking down the hall to the family that I have seen people who look EXACTLY like her when they lose loved-ones...hollow and raw. Very good performance.

Posted by: BelugaWhale

I'm not looking forward to the custody storyline (because it will just be so painful and emotional to watch), but I do look forward to more chances to see Laura Innes without her character acting like a bitch. I've really enjoyed her storylines when they involve her personal life, because for me that's the more interesting aspect of the character.

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
... Laura Innes over all the years, but the ending last night was powerful. ...

quote:
Originally posted by YCantAngieRead
Nice performance by...can't remember her name...who plays Weever.

... hello... :D

quote:
Originally posted by YCantAngieRead
...I think most of it was her having to deal with Weever losing a spouse, just like she did herself...

I was good with all the meaningful glances. I didn't need Weaver to look at her and say "I miss Mark"...

Posted by: DougF

quote:
Originally posted by YCantAngieRead

Speaking of, did anyone else miss Romano in this episode? He always was good for a moving scene when it came down to the wire with people he seemed to hate-always showing that he had a hidden side to him. I really miss him in this series. Sure he was a jack@ss, but he was always good for a scene or two that would catch me completely off-guard. I know McCrane has been directing quite a few ER episodes now, but still. I would have liked to see him stick around.

He was great when Lucy got killed and his scene with Elizabeth when she told him that Mark's tumor was back was good, too.

However, I'm not so sure he would have been good in this situation. He didn't like Kerry and didn't like lesbians (Maggie Doyle, Kim Legaspi, Weaver). I think it would have been really out of character for him to be too compassionate in this case.

Posted by: TiVolcano

Anyone else cringe at the dislocated knee scene? I've dislocated my knee before (and had surgery), and that just freaked me out. I had to turn away from the screen and shout in pain. I'm still holding my knee thinking about it! :eek:

Posted by: ced6

I'm surprised that with their money and intelligence, they didn't contact a lawyer about getting joint custody of Henry. Two friends of mine (lesbians) recently had a baby--oddly enough his name is Henry too--and the one who wasn't the true mom legally adopted him in some way that the original mother still retains her rights, but the non-birth mother has legal rights over him as well--for example, the right to make medical decisions, the right to keep him if something happens to the birth mother, etc. I don't really understand all the details but they had to work it out through a lawyer.

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by Frozen Solid
He didn't like Kerry and didn't like lesbians (Maggie Doyle, Kim Legaspi, Weaver). I think it would have been really out of character for him to be too compassionate in this case.

I'm trying to recall the exact circumstances, but recently, he did something that had to do with Weaver that supported her as a lesbian. I just don't quite remember what it was, but it was out of his 'normal' character, and I remember Weaver being surprised at the act.

Admittedly he mostly played as anti-gay rights. And that's the whole inside joke about his bequest being used to support a special clinic for gay issues. But never the less, he did have compassion when we least expected it. I think the writers trying to show us something underneath the nearly perfect a**h*le persona he so loved.

Posted by: redheadboy

It wasn't so much that Romano didn't like gays as that he would razz anyone. He lived by the "if I abuse everyone, I am not abusing anyone". He would ding you for gender, relegion, orientation, political affiliation, or hair color given the chance. He had a heart of gold, you just needed enough blasting caps and TNT to get to it. I always really liked the relation between him and Corday. He gave her the worst time because he liked her the most.

As for the adoption, this is very new and not available in all places yet. Some terms I have seen are "co-parenting" and "two-parent adoption" if neither is the biological parent. Or there is florida where they prefer to just let the children rot in the system rather than letting gays adopt.

Posted by: cptodd

quote:
Originally posted by redheadboy
It wasn't so much that Romano didn't like gays as that he would razz anyone. He lived by the "if I abuse everyone, I am not abusing anyone". He would ding you for gender, relegion, orientation, political affiliation, or hair color given the chance. He had a heart of gold, you just needed enough blasting caps and TNT to get to it. I always really liked the relation between him and Corday. He gave her the worst time because he liked her the most.

As for the adoption, this is very new and not available in all places yet. Some terms I have seen are "co-parenting" and "two-parent adoption" if neither is the biological parent. Or there is florida where they prefer to just let the children rot in the system rather than letting gays adopt.

While I do agree that he got on everyone's nerve the way the writers executed his character it was clear that he had a special dislike for lesbians. While he did try and get rid of Pratt, Pratt was and still is a yahoo. He would not be out of bounds for getting rid of him. I distinctly remember that he tried to get rid of Carrie's first squeeze for no grounds at all (except for the fact that she told some patient that she was a lesbian). Or at least that is the impression one gets from the way the writers wrote the incident.

Posted by: Snappa77

WOW. Thats all I can say. It was hard to watch the scenes with Weaver in them because her performance was so strong. VERY VERY VERY GOOD. The last scene was extremely painful to watch. My GF started crying when Kerri broke down on Abby's shoulder. The raw emotion on the last scene and my GF's reaction to it even brought a tear to my eye.

I know in Florida they are kinda screwed up. And here in Massachusetts the battles are raging. But how are adoptions by gays in Chicago? Is there anyone who lives in Illinois who can answer that?

I wonder how this is going to play out. It was very smart of them to NOT show us Kerri telling the family. Though alot of us could see the ending coming a mile away I am glad they didn't try to force subtle hints on us. Some shows that do that drop hints the size of elephants. The interaction in the beginning with Sandy's mom was enough.

Great episode. Wish they could keep Gallant. Hope they don't show another Africa ep. Also I wanna see them do an ep without someone dying (patient or staff).

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by redheadboy
I always really liked the relation between him and Corday. He gave her the worst time because he liked her the most.

Thinking way, way back, I don't think we really knew much about Romano when he first came to the ER, except that he was a confident, outspoken, very good surgeon.

He took an immediate liking to Elizabeth, and ultimately was rejected by her. IIRC at that time the rejection was for Benton.

I've never been sure if that could have been the turning point in his life. We never see him with anyone else, and even years later after Mark dies, he still apparently wanted a relationship with her.

So did Elizabeth's original rejection create the Romano we all hated?

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

quote:
It wasn't so much that Romano didn't like gays as that he would razz anyone. He lived by the "if I abuse everyone, I am not abusing anyone". He would ding you for gender, relegion, orientation, political affiliation, or hair color given the chance. He had a heart of gold, you just needed enough blasting caps and TNT to get to it. I always really liked the relation between him and Corday. He gave her the worst time because he liked her the most.

What's interesting about him was that he would ALWAYS surprise me with his caring responses, and I agree with this 100%. I think he professed a hatred for gays and lesbians, but deep down, he would have cared more about the effect it was having on Weaver and would have put aside his bias. Of course, this is all conjecture, but man, what a really good, moving moment this would have been.

One of my favorite moments in ER, even though I hated the Lucy character, was Romano in the OR with her and Corday, and then later in the series the moment between Romano and Corday in his office when it seems like he's going to open up, but doesn't. And then when he got Corday's ring out of the sink drain when she lost it. Romano was just a great, multi-dimensional character that we never really got to see evolve. And while a bit of an over-stereotype, kind of typical of surgeons.

Posted by: justapixel

Just how many times can ER jump the shark, anyway? :confused:

Posted by: LoadStar

quote:
Originally posted by justapixel
Just how many times can ER jump the shark, anyway? :confused:

Care to qualify this statement? Are you suggesting that something in this episode was a "jump the shark" moment, and if so, might I ask what?

Posted by: selecteurocars

Can someone please help me obtain a copy of the 4/8/04 show on VHS, DVD etc? Thank you in advance!

Posted by: jdfs

Down load a copy of the show from suprnova.org (use bittorrent client). That is what I did.

Posted by: jk5598224

quote:
Originally posted by jdfs
Down load a copy of the show from suprnova.org (use bittorrent client). That is what I did.

If you download this, can it be played/streamed to the Tivo if it is MPG? Or I have to play it on my laptop.

Posted by: jdfs

It can't be played on Tivo, at least not without a lot of hacking. Maybe in the future it can.

Posted by: mcdougll

quote:
Originally posted by YCantAngieRead
Nice performance by...can't remember her name...who plays Weever. I've enjoyed watching her since Wings, but .....

Um... Wings? When was she on Wings? Or am I thinking of the wrong show? If so, what Wings was she on?

Posted by: DougF

quote:
Originally posted by mcdougll
Um... Wings? When was she on Wings? Or am I thinking of the wrong show? If so, what Wings was she on?

She played Bunny Mather (Lowell's wife) in several episodes.

Posted by: jsmeeker

I just watched last weeks ER last night. (no new ER this week).

Why does everyone assume Gallant will be KIA (or MIA)?? He is an MD. He is in a medical corps. batallion. He wouldn't be on the "front line" or anything like that.

Posted by: DougF

quote:
Originally posted by jsmeeker
I just watched last weeks ER last night. (no new ER this week).

Why does everyone assume Gallant will be KIA (or MIA)?? He is an MD. He is in a medical corps. batallion. He wouldn't be on the "front line" or anything like that.

Probably because "ER" has had a history of killing of characters (Lucy, Carla, Mark and Romano all spring to mind).

Plus, the actor (Sharif Atkins) has been cast in a new show for the fall on NBC.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by Frozen Solid
Probably because "ER" has had a history of killing of characters (Lucy, Carla, Mark and Romano all spring to mind).

Plus, the actor (Sharif Atkins) has been cast in a new show for the fall on NBC.

Yeah, but they specifically got rid of him without killing him.

I suspect he'll be back if the new show flops.

Posted by: whitson77

quote:
Originally posted by jsmeeker
I just watched last weeks ER last night. (no new ER this week).

Why does everyone assume Gallant will be KIA (or MIA)?? He is an MD. He is in a medical corps. batallion. He wouldn't be on the "front line" or anything like that.

I really like Gallant. I hope his new show is decent. What is it about?

Posted by: Rcrew

quote:
Originally posted by jsmeeker
Why does everyone assume Gallant will be KIA (or MIA)?? He is an MD. He is in a medical corps. batallion. He wouldn't be on the "front line" or anything like that.

Doesn't matter what his 'actual' duty would be. They could find a way to kill him off, and blame the war.

The entire plot line around the dead patient is the perfect device for him to 'fall on his sword' in the ER, and subsequently on the battle field. If it was his choice to leave the show, this was a very nicely done exit. I guess that's true even if it wasn't his choice to leave.

Posted by: DougF

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I suspect he'll be back if the new show flops.

I hope not, but not because I dislike Atkins as an actor or Gallant as a character. I just think the cast is crowded and could use a little trimming.

If I had to pick someone to go, it would be Chen.

Posted by: HTH

Probably have him killed off if the war ends before his tour ends.

Posted by: jsmeeker

But the people who have died on ER have died ON THE SHOW. I don't see them doing a "Galant in Iraq" show like they did with Carter in Africa or Benton in Arkansas (or where ever he went way back when).

Really, I don't see the need to kill him and not have us see it. And like Medieval Guy says, he can come back to ER. His tour was at least a year, so there is enough time for the new show the actor will be on to air for a bit, then maybe get cancelled.

Posted by: Ruth

Second-parent adoption is the legal procedure people have been asking about. It allows adoption of your partner's child when you are not married. It is allowed in only a minority of jurisdictions. According to this website, Illinois is one of them. The linked site is a very reliable source for this type of information.

Posted by: cptodd

quote:
Originally posted by Ruth
Second-parent adoption is the legal procedure people have been asking about. It allows adoption of your partner's child when you are not married. It is allowed in only a minority of jurisdictions. According to this website, Illinois is one of them. The linked site is a very reliable source for this type of information.

Oh well She is a bit too late for that now isn't she? Too bad she did not get it done before. But then they would not have a new storyline.