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Sopranos 4/11/04 (Spoilers)
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Posted by: Turtleboy

Decent but not great ep.

I don't get what happened at the end. Why did Tony B beat the crap out of the Korean guy?

Was he just sick and tired of the crap and snapped? Or was there something specific that I missed?

Posted by: zyzzx

I think he just got fed up with the crap people were dealing him. I'm glad too: it was about time he joined the gang and started causing trouble. I'm really surprised the Korean lived. I was ready for Tony B. to kill him.

Steve Buscemi is useless on the Sopranos as an honest worker. I want to see him causing trouble for Tony S.

How about Tony B. losing all $12,000 he found player poker? Holy cow would I be upset as his girlfriend.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Yeah, my impression of Tony B. since he first appeared is that he's a bomb waiting to go off. With the fuse lit. A very short fuse.

And I don't think it's gone off yet...

Posted by: crowfan

I may be reading into it too much, or I may have missed something, but did anyone else notice that when Carmela opened the cabinet to get out the gun, that bomb/grenade that was there early in the season was missing? When it first showed up (I think it was the first ep), everyone here seemed to notice that they paused on it, and a few people mentioned that it may have significance. Just wondering if I'm crazy :)

crow

Posted by: henryhank

Yeah, I found that rather strange - after all he invested in himself... what a way to throw it all away. Same thing with that school teacher - how dumb can he be to reject Carmella like that? Two very big turn arounds in the last half hour.

I was hoping to see Kim kick Tony B's ass a little bit, though.

And during the previews for next week, didn't you just cringe when Chris says "I'm positive we'll think of something". Ouch - that's not the kind of challange you want to give to Chris.

Posted by: TeeSee

I have a few theories about Tony B. snapping.

1) He was simply worn out from all the late nights, working during the day and getting the place ready during the night. Then his wife yelling at him pushed him to the edge, and in walks Kim at a REALLY bad time.

2) All the money and the high life that it brought reminded him how good it was to be rolling in dough.

3) Being honest is hard work and you've got to take s**t to do it, which is not easy to do when paired with either of my theories one or two.

4) All of the above.

Paulie was great tonight. It seems John Belushi was wrong. It wasn't the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor. It was the Koreans. ;)

Posted by: efilippi

Who was the older guy doing some home repair work and talking to Carmella? I suggested to my wife that he is Carmella's father, though I have no evidence for it. But he called her 'Mel', a name I've not heard before yet sounds like a dad's nickname for his daughter. She opened up to him and he listened but really offered little support, also beliveable as a father/daughter talk.

Posted by: aeedee

was the priest the same guy on 24 that plays chapelle?

Posted by: Redleg

quote:
Originally posted by efilippi
Who was the older guy doing some home repair work and talking to Carmella? I suggested to my wife that he is Carmella's father, though I have no evidence for it. But he called her 'Mel', a name I've not heard before yet sounds like a dad's nickname for his daughter. She opened up to him and he listened but really offered little support, also beliveable as a father/daughter talk.

That was her dad. He's been over for dinner several times.

Overall OK episode. Felt soap operaish, but when it's well written and well acted that's OK.

Posted by: efilippi

I also loved the water cooler ad that ran before the episode. "Not tv, h2o"

Posted by: Pam

Yes, that was Carmella's father.

Yes, that was the actor that plays Ryan Chappelle on 24.

Posted by: jrock

quote:
Originally posted by aeedee
was the priest the same guy on 24 that plays chapelle?

Yes that was him in 24, he was also in OZ along with Carmella.

-Joe

Posted by: pmyers

I loved the scene with Tony and Anthony with the bowl of cereal. I thought for sure Anthony was going to have cereal dripping off his head.

Posted by: sbourgeo

quote:
Originally posted by zyzzx
How about Tony B. losing all $12,000 he found player poker? Holy cow would I be upset as his girlfriend.

Did any other parents notice that Tony B's wife is played by Alison Bartlett, who is also Gina from Sesame Street ? :D

Steve

Posted by: zaknafein

Kim really held his own in that fight with Tony B. I was surprised.

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein
Kim really held his own in that fight with Tony B. I was surprised.

yeah...I was expecting Tony B to get whooped.

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
Decent but not great ep.

I don't get what happened at the end. Why did Tony B beat the crap out of the Korean guy?

Was he just sick and tired of the crap and snapped? Or was there something specific that I missed?

Partly b/c he was sick of the crap (after all he tasted the good life via that $$$, and it wasn't easy to snap back into being a working stiff). Partly b/c he is a thug. And (I noticed he called him a scam artist) perhaps he felt the family connections (such as the plumber and the daughter) were setting him up to get screwed.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein
Kim really held his own in that fight with Tony B. I was surprised.

He had some martial arts moves going on--after that, I was a little surprised that Tony held his own!

What could be interesting is that Tony S. is bringing Tony B. into the fold at exactly the moment when the cops are going to be coming down on him like a ton of bricks...

Posted by: ClutchBrake

I thought it was a pretty good episode.

The scene with Carmela smiling in the bathroom was great. I wasn't sure how she was going to react but when she smiled it felt really good. That made what happened later feel all the worse. :(

I don't like the quantum leaps we have seen this season. Everyone likes to brag on The Sopranos for its character development. I don't think The Sopranos can touch The Wire in that department. Things like Janice and Bobby's marriage, Tony and Adriana becoming so close so quickly, Tony suddenly snorting cocaine, the counselor suddenly turning on Carmela, Tony B. throwing away everything he had worked for, etc. It all happened so fast.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
Things like Janice and Bobby's marriage,

They covered that on the "Clip Show"... did you miss it? :) ;)

Seriously, though - I agree completely with you - they've really made some huge leaps this season. BTW, what's going on with Jonny Sack and the NY crew? Maybe they'll get back to that next week, and everything's been resolved. :(

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I wonder if Carmella is going to rat out the rat (the teacher) to Tony, either directly or indirectly..? It would be the kind of hypocritical thing she does once in a while, bemoaning the mob lifestyle while taking advantage of its perks, especially the illegal/immoral perks!

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I wonder if Carmella is going to rat out the rat (the teacher) to Tony, either directly or indirectly..? It would be the kind of hypocritical thing she does once in a while, bemoaning the mob lifestyle while taking advantage of its perks, especially the illegal/immoral perks!

well you did hear her say "you better watch your step", right?

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I wonder if Carmella is going to rat out the rat (the teacher) to Tony, either directly or indirectly..? It would be the kind of hypocritical thing she does once in a while, bemoaning the mob lifestyle while taking advantage of its perks, especially the illegal/immoral perks!

She certainly felt disrespected. It is actually kind of an interesting inner-struggle, you could imagine

when things were good she was thinking: "I wish I wasn't who I am... so I could be free to pursue my relationships as I please instead of sneaking around."

Then when faced with that stressful break-up situation: She immediately thought "do you know who I am, you don't talk to me like that."

Posted by: harvscar

Given the previous conversations Carm, Tony and AJ had about the counselor, one of Tony's guys could go "talk" to him about his fay behavior around the kids.

Posted by: ClutchBrake

Carmela's reaction to the break-up really frustrated me. I have a severe dislike of her character but it was nice to see her happy for once. Then she goes and becomes a hypocrite. Exactly why I hate the character.

Hate is really the wrong word. Have no sympathy for is a better description.

Posted by: henryhank

I also thought the dialog of the teacher at the break-up was alot out of character for him. If he was really feeling that way (possible in real life, but unlikely), why would he resort to such offensive language? It was just strange, as if they inserted a page of Corrado's dailog.

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
Carmela's reaction to the break-up really frustrated me. I have a severe dislike of her character but it was nice to see her happy for once. Then she goes and becomes a hypocrite. Exactly why I hate the character.

Hate is really the wrong word. Have no sympathy for is a better description.

To me that is part of what makes her realistic. Obviously at some time she had some kind of attraction to the juice you get from being 'a friend of ours,' to be married to Tony. It would be hard to believe that part of her suddenly ceases to exist.

quote:
Originally posted by henryhank
I also thought the dialog of the teacher at the break-up was alot out of character for him. If he was really feeling that way (possible in real life, but unlikely), why would he resort to such offensive language? It was just strange, as if they inserted a page of Corrado's dailog.

I thought his analysis or her character (that she is using her female parts as a weapon) sounded like the kind of synopsis you'd find in cliff notes.

Posted by: Bananfish

quote:
Originally posted by daperlman
She certainly felt disrespected. It is actually kind of an interesting inner-struggle, you could imagine

when things were good she was thinking: "I wish I wasn't who I am... so I could be free to pursue my relationships as I please instead of sneaking around."

Then when faced with that stressful break-up situation: She immediately thought "do you know who I am, you don't talk to me like that."

I think she more or less let the teacher off the hook though ... when she talked to her father about it, she blamed Tony more for the breakup than the teacher. She said something like "people are always going to suspect my motives because I was married to Tony" ... and she said it resignedly, as if she didn't really blame the teacher at all.

I get the feeling that if she does tell Tony about it, it will be more to hurt Tony than to get the teacher clipped. Kind of like when she told Tony about her fantasies about Furio.

bananfish

Posted by: Bananfish

I can't help slipping in a few prurient notes:

1) Nice glutes, Carmela/Edie!

2) I hope that Tony B.'s attack on Kim doesn't mean we won't see any more of Kim's daughter.

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by Bananfish
I can't help slipping in a few prurient notes:

2) I hope that Tony B.'s attack on Kim doesn't mean we won't see any more of Kim's daughter.

I Second that. Maybe she will fall on hard times and take a job at the Baddabing.

Posted by: VegasVic

quote:
Originally posted by daperlman
I Second that. Maybe she will fall on hard times and take a job at the Baddabing.

Now that's the best storyline idea I've ever heard for The Sopranos! :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

Posted by: racer21

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Yeah, my impression of Tony B. since he first appeared is that he's a bomb waiting to go off. With the fuse lit. A very short fuse.

And I don't think it's gone off yet...

I agree with that impression of Tony B. I felt that even though he has been struggling to go mainstream, he isn't sure how to get there.

Tony B. leading a "normal" life is like a fish out of water. Seeing that koi flopping around on the floor made me think the bomb has started ticking.

Posted by: JFriday

quote:
Originally posted by sbourgeo
Did any other parents notice that Tony B's wife is played by Alison Bartlett, who is also Gina from Sesame Street ? :D

Steve

My wife noticed and every time they showed her she complained how can they use someone from sesame street on the Soprano's.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by daperlman
Maybe she will fall on hard times and take a job at the Baddabing.

Or maybe the other way around. ;)

Posted by: lajohn27

I have to agree with previous posters that this Season feels very disjointed so far.. they introduce plot lines just to let them die on the vine it seems.. when they could each become so much more in a stronger story arc -- a stronger better designed story arc than the one we're seeing.

Admittedly, life is sometimes like that.

As for Carmela and the faculty advisor guy. His dialog seemed out of place and 'wrong' for the character. That said, I thought the point the character was trying to make about Carmela's personality was valid. Consciously or not, her actions provided her the outcome she sought; and likely she knew as much when she left that night.

Carmela's response along the lines of "People do things for each other.. that's what being friends .. is about" And his indignant face to that answer shocked her I think.

This episode surely could have been entitled "Fish Out of Water.."

1) Carmela dating a 'civilian'
2) Tony B trying to go straight and/or workin with the Koreans
3) Anthony living with Tony (and returning to the water with Mom)
4) The koi on the floor..

John

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by lajohn27
As for Carmela and the faculty adviser guy. His dialog seemed out of place and 'wrong' for the character.

I think it was an act, just like his smooth, sensitive guy was an act. One act to suck her in, another one to spit her out.

Quite an operator. It will be interesting to see what happens when he meets Tony, whose behavior is rarely so nuanced... :D

Posted by: lajohn27

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I think it was an act, just like his smooth, sensitive guy was an act. One act to suck her in, another one to spit her out.

Quite an operator. It will be interesting to see what happens when he meets Tony, whose behavior is rarely so nuanced... :D

Of COURSE! I think he was one of those characters who reveals much of himself in criticism of others.. He was probably as much or more of a 'user' in the situation with Carm & AJ..

Thanks for the insight!

J

Posted by: zaknafein

It's intersting how they were showing how similar Tony and Carmella's mentalities are. They are both manipulators. Their only difference is, Tony uses fear, and Carmella uses her sexuality.

Posted by: lajohn27

quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein
It's intersting how they were showing how similar Tony and Carmella's mentalities are. They are both manipulators. Their only difference is, Tony uses fear, and Carmella uses her sexuality.

I think they both use whatever they think will work in a given situation.. Bribing AJ, using family guilt with other members, violence with some.. sexuality with others...

J

Posted by: Win Joy Jr

Tony B. snapped as a result of several things:

1.) He realized that he was going to have to share his dream business with strangers.

2.) He realized how many massages he would have to give to clear 12 Large.

3.) He was feeling trapped in a working man's life.

And, I am going out on a limb here, but I think we have not seen the last of the guy who was fronting the money for the business. My bet was that he never was going to have it legit, if you know what I mean...

Posted by: Dafaso

quote:
Originally posted by Win Joy Jr
Tony B. snapped as a result of several things:

1.) He realized that he was going to have to share his dream business with strangers.

2.) He realized how many massages he would have to give to clear 12 Large.

3.) He was feeling trapped in a working man's life.

And, I am going out on a limb here, but I think we have not seen the last of the guy who was fronting the money for the business. My bet was that he never was going to have it legit, if you know what I mean...

Also, working 7am to 7pm at the laundry, fixing up his new business till midnight and playing poker till 5am and sleeping for about an hour to start all over again will drive anyone insane.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by Dafaso
Also, working 7am to 7pm at the laundry, fixing up his new business till midnight and playing poker till 5am and sleeping for about an hour to start all over again will drive anyone insane.

That's what I don't get... he was so focused and determined to "go straight", that it seemed out of character (recent character, that is) to throw that all away, and not stay up 23 hours each day. He had real priorities and vision, then BAMM, all gone. It was quite a turnaround for someone so determined to do the right thing.

Posted by: pmyers

Once he got a taste of the "life" again, he was hooked.

Posted by: KRS

quote:
Originally posted by crowfan
I may be reading into it too much, or I may have missed something, but did anyone else notice that when Carmela opened the cabinet to get out the gun, that bomb/grenade that was there early in the season was missing? When it first showed up (I think it was the first ep), everyone here seemed to notice that they paused on it, and a few people mentioned that it may have significance. Just wondering if I'm crazy :)

crow

I thought that the grenade was missing too, but Figaro told me that he saw the grenade on the shelf above where the gun was kept.

Why did Carmella get together with that priest again? Didn't they have a falling out awhile back? Perhaps since she was in a "relationship," she felt more secure facing someone she had once had feelings for, or perhaps she just wanted someone besides Rose to talk to....

And the 2 kids that Tony B gave GameBoys to (with $12K, why not splurge on the SP version?) - are they his kids, or are they his girlfriend's from another relationship?

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I think this is a guy who's never worked an honest day in his life; while in prison, he fell in love with the dream of honest work; but the reality was much more than he bargained for, and he just couldn't handle it.

I also think this is a guy with profoundly deep rage (I got that impression when he first appeared, probably at least in part because Buscemi was playing him), and that it was only a matter of time before that rage emerged. And as I said earlier, I don't think it actually has emerged yet. That was just a hissy fit! The real explosion, methinks, is yet to come.

Posted by: pmyers

I believe they are his kids. I remember Tony and Carmella having a conversation about Tony B's sperm being smuggled out of prison so he could have kids.

I don't know if the grenade was missing but that AK-47 sure was from the Bear episode.

Posted by: harvscar

quote:
Originally posted by KRS
I thought that the grenade was missing too, but Figaro told me that he saw the grenade on the shelf above where the gun was kept.

Why did Carmella get together with that priest again? Didn't they have a falling out awhile back? Perhaps since she was in a "relationship," she felt more secure facing someone she had once had feelings for, or perhaps she just wanted someone besides Rose to talk to....

And the 2 kids that Tony B gave GameBoys to (with $12K, why not splurge on the SP version?) - are they his kids, or are they his girlfriend's from another relationship?

IIRC, a prison guard or someone smuggled his sperm out of the prison so that his ex-girlfriend/ex-wife could conceive.

Posted by: dslunceford

quote:
Originally posted by sbourgeo
Did any other parents notice that Tony B's wife is played by Alison Bartlett, who is also Gina from Sesame Street ? :D

Steve

Didn't watch until last night and yes, we caught it. Had to go check out an episode of SS to be sure it was the Vet!

quote:
Originally posted by JFriday
My wife noticed and every time they showed her she complained how can they use someone from sesame street on the Soprano's.

Didn't she see the episode of SS where Gandolfini is on? He's afraid of giant talking vegetables :D:D:D

Posted by: masdoggydogg

And don't you think taking that money is going to come back to haunt TonyB as well? I was surprised how many people he told the story to....

Posted by: Kevdog

quote:
Originally posted by henryhank
That's what I don't get... he was so focused and determined to "go straight", that it seemed out of character (recent character, that is) to throw that all away, and not stay up 23 hours each day. He had real priorities and vision, then BAMM, all gone. It was quite a turnaround for someone so determined to do the right thing.

These guys are sociopaths. It's not surprising that he snapped, but that it took him so long.

Posted by: rseligman

Anyone have an idea what the significance of the episode title "Irregular Around the Margins" is? My wife and I can't figure out what it might be referring to.

Posted by: Bananfish

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I also think this is a guy with profoundly deep rage (I got that impression when he first appeared, probably at least in part because Buscemi was playing him), and that it was only a matter of time before that rage emerged. And as I said earlier, I don't think it actually has emerged yet. That was just a hissy fit! The real explosion, methinks, is yet to come.

I don't believe that Tony B. will live out the season. Movie actors generally don't like to do television - because the Sopranos is a special show, a guest run is acceptable, but not a long-term thing. So I don't see Buscemi signing up for more than one season.

My prediction: Carmine Jr. has Tony B. whacked as a warning to Tony S. to stay out of the Carmine Jr./Johnny Sack turf war, and then Tony S. teams up with Johnny Sack to finish off Carmine Jr.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by Bananfish
I don't believe that Tony B. will live out the season. Movie actors generally don't like to do television - because the Sopranos is a special show, a guest run is acceptable, but not a long-term thing. So I don't see Buscemi signing up for more than one season.

My prediction: Carmine Jr. has Tony B. whacked as a warning to Tony S. to stay out of the Carmine Jr./Johnny Sack turf war, and then Tony S. teams up with Johnny Sack to finish off Carmine Jr.

Could be, but it sure feels to me that they're setting him up to bring about his own doom. A temper like that, I think, wouldn't be wasted on being killed as a symbolic gesture.

I think he's a loose cannon; he's already bringing heat down on himself and, by extension, Tony S. (the cops will be after him for his rather brutal assault on Kim, which is certainly a parole violation), and if he can't reign it in, he will become a major liability to his family and friends...

Posted by: MattDing

quote:
Originally posted by rseligman
Anyone have an idea what the significance of the episode title "Irregular Around the Margins" is? My wife and I can't out what it might be referring to.

I believe it was a reference to Tony's melanoma. He mentioned to Aidrianna he had another that looked "irregular".

Posted by: Redleg

quote:
Originally posted by MattDing
I believe it was a reference to Tony's melanoma. He mentioned to Aidrianna he had another that looked "irregular".

And as another poster astutely noted, Adriana is also a "mole" and the irregularities around her may come into relief.

Posted by: MattDing

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I think he's a loose cannon; he's already bringing heat down on himself and, by extension, Tony S. (the cops will be after him for his rather brutal assault on Kim, which is certainly a parole violation), and if he can't reign it in, he will become a major liability to his family and friends...

And don't forget his very, very, very thinly veiled contempt for Tony S. when he got out of prison. That has not disappeared, I'm sure of it. We will see it again.

Posted by: numb and number

quote:
[i]
Why did Carmella get together with that priest again? [/B]

i think the priest IS carmella.

Posted by: jeff125va

Was that really Carmela's butt, or was that a body double? Sometimes she looks older than 41 - still good mind you, but that shot of her walking to the bathroom looked very good.

I thought it was interesting when Carmela put the gun under her pillow. When she first looked at that picture of Tony and somewhat younger A.J., I thought she was feeling sentimental or guilty about her "affair" with the teacher. Especially with Tony smiling in it and it being of a happy moment with her son. But I guess it was actually fear she was feeling when she thought of Tony.

OK, I have to admit something here. Well, first of all, I didn't actually recognize the person from Sesame Street since my kids never really watched it much. But until reading this thread, I never actually realized that the names of the characters were not their real-life names. I understood in general that actors had different names than their characters, but I just thought Sesame Street was different. I never really thought of them as actors since it was an educational show. I'm sure I would have realized it later but I just never thought about it.

Posted by: ihatecable

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
(the cops will be after him for his rather brutal assault on Kim, which is certainly a parole violation)

Somehow I don't think it would be too "healthy" for Kim to report his assaut to the police not to mention the union problems Tony S could cause for his business. I'm willing to bet this will be just another loose thread (right next to the pine barren Russian) in the storyline.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by ihatecable
(right next to the pine barren Russian)

That was a great scene. It was great to see Chris and Paulie so humiliated like that. I'd like to see more things like that once in a while (as well as what happened to the Russian!).

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by ihatecable
Somehow I don't think it would be too "healthy" for Kim to report his assaut to the police not to mention the union problems Tony S could cause for his business. I'm willing to bet this will be just another loose thread (right next to the pine barren Russian) in the storyline.

I don't think Kim thinks of Tony B. as a mobster (why would a mobster be doing menial work, anyway?); I think he just sees him as an ex-con.

Posted by: ihatecable

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I don't think Kim thinks of Tony B. as a mobster (why would a mobster be doing menial work, anyway?); I think he just sees him as an ex-con.

But I'm pretty sure Kim knows Tony S (who got Tony B the Job) is a mobster.

Posted by: FLbadgirl

quote:
Originally posted by TeeSee
I have a few theories about Tony B. snapping.

1) He was simply worn out from all the late nights, working during the day and getting the place ready during the night. Then his wife yelling at him pushed him to the edge, and in walks Kim at a REALLY bad time.

2) All the money and the high life that it brought reminded him how good it was to be rolling in dough.

3) Being honest is hard work and you've got to take s**t to do it, which is not easy to do when paired with either of my theories one or two.

4) All of the above.

Paulie was great tonight. It seems John Belushi was wrong. It wasn't the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor. It was the Koreans. ;)

I completely agree too. I think Tony B. got sick of trying to play it straight and be legit. I couldn't believe he snapped on Mr. Kim. I thought he was going to finish him off with the 2 by 4.

Also, I don't understand the whole scenerio that played out with Carmela and Bob. What the hell made him say those things to her when they were sitting on the bed? I don't get it... That little fling desolved as quick as it started. Wonder what will happen with him? Pay backs again be a b%*ch.

Posted by: FLbadgirl

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I don't think Kim thinks of Tony B. as a mobster (why would a mobster be doing menial work, anyway?); I think he just sees him as an ex-con.

Yes but.... Kim is well aware of Tony S.'s line of work and I think he understands the relationship with the Tonys (they are cousins). He knows Tony B. is mixed up with the family and I think he was giving the guy a break (as he put it, "doing Tony a favor") by giving him a civilian job. Something legit.

Kim sure does get it now if he didn't before.... Tony B. kicked the crap out of him. Poor Coy fish.

Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by FLbadgirl
Also, I don't understand the whole scenerio that played out with Carmela and Bob. What the hell made him say those things to her when they were sitting on the bed? I don't get it...

My feeling is that he was feeling angry

with himself for having compromised his integrity,
with the teacher, and,
finally, with Carmela, for whom he compromised his integrity.

Posted by: Fleegle

quote:
Originally posted by FLbadgirl
Also, I don't understand the whole scenerio that played out with Carmela and Bob. What the hell made him say those things to her when they were sitting on the bed? I don't get it... That little fling desolved as quick as it started. Wonder what will happen with him? Pay backs again be a b%*ch.

Well, he didn't really go about telling her in the best way, but I did notice that every scene they had together showed Carmela talking about AJ's schoolwork and/or that teacher. He had a good point about Carm being a user.

Posted by: cwoody222

Hence why us (and the characters themselves) have such conflicting thoughts about them (selves).

Was Carmella talking about AJ a lot simply because she was a worried mother? Or did she have subconscious (or not so subconscious) motives?

Was Bob angry at himself for strong-arming the teacher for Carmella's sake (hence making him like Tony) or really angry at Carm for "making" him do it?

And really does this mean that Carm turns men into such people... or are most / some men just like that... and for better or worse, that's what Carm is attracted to.

Did she really find a man different than Tony who then changed into Tony on his own? Or did she just create a new Tony?

Posted by: bullitt

quote:
Originally posted by lajohn27
I have to agree with previous posters that this Season feels very disjointed so far.. they introduce plot lines just to let them die on the vine it seems.. when they could each become so much more in a stronger story arc -- a stronger better designed story arc than the one we're seeing.
John

After this episode, I said to my wife that although this season's episodes are well acted and generally entertaining they leave no compelling reason to anticipate the next one. After an episode of "The Shield" or "24" there is always a "can't wait till next week feeling". The character development and plot lines are indicative of "going through the motions" for a franchise that knows it can get away with mediocre story lines. The Wire is a much better written show regarding development of characters. It appears "Deadwood" has some of the same issues as "Sopranos".

With the season 1/2 over it looks like everything will be compressed to leave us hanging for final season. My belief is this will all lead to a bunch of Full Length Motion Pictures starting in 2007.

They should take a look at the Steelgrave arc from "The Wiseguy".

Posted by: bullitt

If you read the recent spate of posts this season, specifically this episode 4/11 is sounds like we're commenting on a day time drama not an original HBO Series called The Sopranos. The show has become an analysis of the marriage of Tony & Carmela and has abandoned all the intensity of the plots from last season...Johnny Sack, Paulie feeling slighted etc. And we need a real background on Tony B.