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West Wing 4/21 (spoilers)
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Posted by: hawkamer

This was an interesting episode. And in true Wellsian fashion, it started with a victory and ended with a defeat. I thought the CWA reps finding a bottle of champagne in Josh's office was a bit over the top, though.

I didn't catch any references to where Toby was during this episode. I know that Richard Schiff directed it, but shouldn't they have said where his character was while this major event was unfolding? Was he already in Brussels?

The part with Donna walking along side Josh and then storming off (silently) was pretty funny. So was CJ's banter with her boyfriend.

Next week, however, looks like an ER rerun. :mad:

Posted by: daperlman

I didn't watch the whole thing, but I thought the 'free-trade' debate was well represented. I of course found myself sympathizing with the software company lobbyist that was moving programming jobs to India. I really liked Josh's conversation with Leo where he was trying to think of what to give the communication unions to placate them (stimulating dialog).

Posted by: oski87

Let us hope that this episode will shut the yaps of all the neocons that continue to insist that West Wing is some sort of leftie plot to take over the world! Dissecting one of Kerry's main campaign platforms in a very fair and balanced (pardon my lame attempt at irony...) manner that ended up essentially blasting it should end that perception.

(Oh, yeah, and its just TV anyway. If real people are influenced by fictional characters, they'll probably end up joining a cult and moving to a compound in upper Montana eventually anyway)

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by oski87
Let us hope that this episode will shut the yaps of all the neocons that continue to insist that West Wing is some sort of leftie plot to take over the world! Dissecting one of Kerry's main campaign platforms in a very fair and balanced (pardon my lame attempt at irony...) manner that ended up essentially blasting it should end that perception.

(Oh, yeah, and its just TV anyway. If real people are influenced by fictional characters, they'll probably end up joining a cult and moving to a compound in upper Montana eventually anyway)

Well I usually agree with neoconservatives and I like this episode. Even though it doesn't change my position on Free Trade... I found the situation to be thought provoking. What would any of us do (despite our position on free trade) if we were in Josh's shoes?

Posted by: bcbeatty

I like how CJ tried to take on the FCC. Seems very accurate.

<rant>How can the FCC be independent when the chairman's Dad is Secretary of State</rant>

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by bcbeatty
I like how CJ tried to take on the FCC. Seems very accurate.

<rant>How can the FCC be independent when the chairman's Dad is Secretary of State</rant>

You know, I have totally changed my opinion on this since the Superbowl debacle. The FCC is totally corrupt, they are given trips to Vegas and the like by the very organizations they regulate. What is worse is when those corporations return the favor, such as Clear channel and their temporary conversion to a puritan business model in which they go totally overboard to regulate themselves while screwing their customers.

OTOH it would seem unfair to give the FCC any more power to regulate market share... especially while there are still taxpayer supported forms of communication.

Posted by: jlb.x

Nice to see Fitzwallace back in the West Wing... though I don't quite understand where this Fitz-Donna-Congressional trip to the Middle East plot line is headed. I'm somewhat concerned that something could happen to Donna (and Fitz) on this trip.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
No indication of that in the preview for next week's "lockdown" though.

Posted by: cheerdude

Is Fitz still in whatever position that he holds? I don't think that I have seen his character without the uniform before.

Posted by: devdogaz

Leo mentioed him not being in uniform. I don't know if that means he's no longer chairman of the Joint Chiefs or if he was just dressed differently.

Anyone understand that scene with POTUS and the new deputy National Security Director? Pres asks her a question, she says she shouldn't give her opinion, he insists, she gives it, he seems disinterested and wisks her away. I was confused by that.

I liked the free trade issue. I was surprised to see a Dem White House that fired up about free trade though.

Posted by: sieglinde

NAFTA was passed under the Clinton Administration.

It is pretty evil also. The WTO can sue the US if we have some law or regulation that is stricter than they are. This usually affects workers or the environment.

Posted by: jlb.x

quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz
Anyone understand that scene with POTUS and the new deputy National Security Director? Pres asks her a question, she says she shouldn't give her opinion, he insists, she gives it, he seems disinterested and wisks her away. I was confused by that.

Yeah, that was strange. (Also, what's up with her hair?) Though we've seen brain meltdowns before, where otherwise very headstrong people (telling Lilly Tomlin that she should not have the locator box pointed out toward the public) become total fluff inside the Oval Office.

Actually... Her exit was a lot like Lilly Tomlin's exit from her first job interview with the President. Though I'm guessing the deputy NSA wasn't high on pills.

Anyway, it's seems likely to be foreshadowing of some upcoming event. I'd guess that Nancy can't be in the West Wing for some sort of crisis, and bowl-cut -- I mean, deputy NSA is there and has to advise the pres.

Posted by: newsposter

quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz
Leo mentioed him not being in uniform. I don't know if that means he's no longer chairman of the Joint Chiefs or if he was just dressed differently.

Anyone understand that scene with POTUS and the new deputy National Security Director? Pres asks her a question, she says she shouldn't give her opinion, he insists, she gives it, he seems disinterested and wisks her away. I was confused by that.

I said that means he disagrees with her and she's fired. My wife says that means she is a tough cookie and he respects her and she is hired. I guess we will see who's right.

Re: the Joint chief, I think he had to dress like that because of the nature of the event, who/how he was representing the prez, or for where he was going. Symbolic things or customs are important sometimes in meetings, even more than the content thereof.

The walmart conversation seemed true to life. If Americans want cheap stuff and keep on buying cheap stuff made in foreign countries, that's what we will keep getting. If we would have bought the more expensive stuff, then more would have to be made and they would have to hire more people here to do it. I think there's something called supply and demand but with only 18 credits of economics I don't think I'm qualified to give things names :) I guess the one positive is that, I believe, a lot of 'foreign' cars are assembled in America so that's a good step.

The FCC thing in the press room was great, all the seats taken out. Regardless of who is right/wrong, she stirred it up and I love stuff like that. Unfortunately, she found out the good ole boyz club will never die and I think she was really disheartened that no one would run the story.

Posted by: cmontyburns

quote:
Originally posted by newsposter
Re: the Joint chief, I think he had to dress like that because of the nature of the event, who/how he was representing the prez, or for where he was going. Symbolic things or customs are important sometimes in meetings, even more than the content thereof.

Fitzwallace stepped down from the joint chief position, or retired, or whatever. This happened because John Amos had his own show, All About the Andersons, on the WB or UPN. Pretty certain that show tanked, so now that Amos has some free time, he's back on WW. But the joint chief role has been filled (by Terry O'Quinn) so Fitz is back as a civilian.

Posted by: IJustLikeTivo

They actually commented on the uniform thing during the show about how he was not used to seeing him without all the hardware (ie medals). Yes, Fitz retired and was replaced. He was called back on a special mission.

BTW, bcbeatty, I can't imagine the fact that the FCC is run by Powell son has anything to do with them being or not being impartial. Powell is completely marginalized in the Bush admin and stay only out of honor. There is not way in hell he will stay for a second bush term if they win. Before the whole 9/11 comission mess, I would have bet that Condi Rice would have done the Kissinger double of SS and NS Advisor but I think that she is not confirmable now. I have no idea who would replace her. (Sorry for the very minor discussion of politics but it is in the spirit of the thread)

Posted by: Jon J

quote:
Originally posted by hawkamer
I didn't catch any references to where Toby was during this episode.

He made a couple of brief appearances, but wasn't part of the main story line.

Posted by: MacThor

quote:
Originally posted by Jon J
He made a couple of brief appearances, but wasn't part of the main story line.

Really? I didn't see Toby at all in this ep.

Posted by: oski87

quote:
Originally posted by jlb.x
Yeah, that was strange. (Also, what's up with her hair?) Though we've seen brain meltdowns before, where otherwise very headstrong people (telling Lilly Tomlin that she should not have the locator box pointed out toward the public) become total fluff inside the Oval Office.

Actually... Her exit was a lot like Lilly Tomlin's exit from her first job interview with the President. Though I'm guessing the deputy NSA wasn't high on pills.

Anyway, it's seems likely to be foreshadowing of some upcoming event. I'd guess that Nancy can't be in the West Wing for some sort of crisis, and bowl-cut -- I mean, deputy NSA is there and has to advise the pres.

FItz and Donna are off to the Middle East together. New headstrong deputy NSA that has been given a cryptic little spotlight.

You heard it right here from Stan first...

(Not a spoiler, just a wild guess...)

Posted by: tem

that's what I was thinking...

Posted by: Fustanella

quote:
Originally posted by MacThor
Really? I didn't see Toby at all in this ep.

He was there a couple of times, but nowhere near his normal presence. Busy behind the camera, methinks (Richard Schiff directed).

Posted by: TreborPugly

quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz

Anyone understand that scene with POTUS and the new deputy National Security Director? Pres asks her a question, she says she shouldn't give her opinion, he insists, she gives it, he seems disinterested and wisks her away. I was confused by that.

Just watched this episode last night. (Got behind watching Band of Brothers)

My take on this is that he encouraged her to speak her mind. Then she started making a point that wasn't new to him at all, so he dismissed her, also perhaps encouraging her to make her points more quickly and not ramble.

Posted by: jlb.x

quote:
Originally posted by jlb.x
Nice to see Fitzwallace back in the West Wing... though I don't quite understand where this Fitz-Donna-Congressional trip to the Middle East plot line is headed. I'm somewhat concerned that something could happen to Donna (and Fitz) on this trip.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
No indication of that in the preview for next week's "lockdown" though.

Damn. Damn. Damn. I just read the description for the May 12 West Wing:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

"The president considers military options when a congressional fact-finding team's vehicle is bombed during their investigation of the Palestinian and Israeli conflict."

The way Donna and Josh have fallen apart lately, it seems like all of that must be leading to something...

I'm afraid the West Wing might lose Donna and Fitz. Wasn't Toby's ex-wife/mother of his twin kids/congresswoman supposedly going on this trip too?

Posted by: devdogaz

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Yes, I thought she was leading the trip.

Maybe this will be the way they finally get Josh and Donna together. Donna will be badly hurt and spend some time in the hospital. Josh will realize that he would have been lost without her and they will get together. Pure speculation.