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Slow channel guide display
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Posted by: klimekt
I haven't heard anyone else mention this, the guide on my HD Tivo is painfully slow to load. The channel numbers show up instantanously but the program information trickles in over as much as 5 seconds. It makes quick scan of the channels next to impossible. Since this is my first Tivo I don't know if this is normal for all Tivo units but it sure is a lot slower then both the DTC-100 and the E86 receivers I own. Is the guide suppose to be this slow, is it going to get faster as the unit "learns"?
Tomasz
Posted by: SupraLB
I have the same problem. It's very annoying how slow its loads. This is also my first tivo, so I don't know if its common.
Posted by: btwyx
This is a feature carried over from SD DTiVos. The DirecTV guide is painfully slow, the TiVo guide works a lot quicker. There is a theory that it speeds up once the guide data has downloaded. I've never had the patience to find out.
Try the TiVo guide, now called the "List" guide, you find the list guide in the guide options. Pull up the guide and hit the info button.
Posted by: mchaney
quote:
Originally posted by btwyx
This is a feature carried over from SD DTiVos. The DirecTV guide is painfully slow, the TiVo guide works a lot quicker. There is a theory that it speeds up once the guide data has downloaded. I've never had the patience to find out.
Try the TiVo guide, now called the "List" guide, you find the list guide in the guide options. Pull up the guide and hit the info button.
Trust me, it never gets any faster! I refuse to use the Tivo guide because it just doesn't show enough information on the screen at once (which is probably why it's faster). I'll live with it but it is incredibly slow. I really don't see any excuse for it other than lousy coding.
Mike
Posted by: klimekt
After 10 years with various DirecTV receivers I find the "list guide" pretty much useless. It might be faster to load but if I want to see what's coming up on multiple channels it actually take me longer with this guide. I still can't believe that the regular guide is this slow in a $1000 box. I really hope this is something that can be improved in the upcoming software updates.
Tomasz
Posted by: Frank_M
The list guide is only really useful if you want to scan an entire day on one channel (like, say, HDnet). But the Directv guide is what it is... it can be slow, but it's the exact same speed as with the Dtivos.
Also, it DOES get faster as your guide data gets up to speed. I've had mine activated for two days, and it's still catching up.
Posted by: gfb107
This probably isn't what you want to hear, but why in the world do you care about the guide? Maybe you guys have only recently joined the world of TiVo, but the whole point of TiVo is to record what you want to watch so you can watch it on your schedule. I NEVER watch Live TV anymore. If you are watching Live TV, you aren't recoding enough.
Posted by: Geof in CO
quote:
Originally posted by gfb107
This probably isn't what you want to hear, but why in the world do you care about the guide? Maybe you guys have only recently joined the world of TiVo, but the whole point of TiVo is to record what you want to watch so you can watch it on your schedule. I NEVER watch Live TV anymore. If you are watching Live TV, you aren't recoding enough.
Well for one thing I don't what to sit down and pre-plan everything I may or may not want to watch. I'm not picking on you but all you TiVo'ers think this is Gods gift to TV. I am happy for you but I view the TiVo a bit differently. Sure I like it can record stuff and I like that I can play it back at a time of my chosing, and I like that I can FF thru the commercials. But I also like to maybe watch something right now that I'm in the mood for right now. Using the guide shouldn't be a slow or as painful as TiVo has made it. Personally I think they've intentionaly hampered it to force people to avoid using it (and thus become assimilated to the TiVo way). I just don't see how anyone in their right minds would think that guide speed is acceptable unless there was a deliberate purpose and intent behind it's slow speed.
Everyone who is bothered by the slow guide should complain to DirecTv. I did (used the technical feedback email address from the DirecTv site). I don't know if it will do any good but I am quite positive that they won't do a damn thing to fix it/speed it up if no one complains.
/end rant
PS: I do not mean to disparage long time TiVo users so please do not get offended and please do not try to tell me that slow-ass guide is acceptable.
Posted by: bbodin
quote:
Well for one thing I don't what to sit down and pre-plan everything I may or may not want to watch. I'm not picking on you but all you TiVo'ers think this is Gods gift to TV. I am happy for you but I view the TiVo a bit differently. Sure I like it can record stuff and I like that I can play it back at a time of my chosing, and I like that I can FF thru the commercials. But I also like to maybe watch something right now that I'm in the mood for right now. Using the guide shouldn't be a slow or as painful as TiVo has made it.
well you're just not a normal tivo user (I happen to watch more live tv like you do as well). The intent of tivo is built on the tivo list guide. You scroll through (maybe once a day) each channel using the list guide, finding shows you wish to watch and record them (so I look on Starz and see a show at 3pm I like and schedule it, one at 10 pm I like and schedule it, ....then look at NBC and do the same thing). I then come home from work and watch those recordings (and no commercials). Sure you watch live tv, just rarely though because you generally have shows to watch that are recorded.
If you're not doing the above, you're really using the Tivo as a glorified VCR..which is fine, but $1000 is a bit much to pay for a vcr. And given that the machine is not meant for that, that is why there has been little prioritization for a fast non-list guide from DirectTV.
Posted by: borghe
I haven't seen it mentioned here, but in the list guide, hit ffwd to advance the time slots by a half hour.. keep pressing it to keep advancing a half hour at a time. of course pressing rwd takes you back a half hour...
most of the complaints against the list guide can be solved with this tip.
personally I was never a huge fan of the directv guide even back to my gen 2 RCA.. I much more prefer the list guide instead...
Now if Tivo could just put an indicator anywhere to let you know if a show on the list guide is set to be recorded...
Posted by: oosik77
Just to echo others.... I rarely look at the guide any more. If there is something on that I would like to watch even when I do find it I have the Tivo record it so I can watch it later and skip the commercials.
Posted by: Geof in CO
quote:
Originally posted by bbodin
If you're not doing the above, you're really using the Tivo as a glorified VCR..which is fine, but $1000 is a bit much to pay for a vcr. And given that the machine is not meant for that, that is why there has been little prioritization for a fast non-list guide from DirectTV.
Well for one thing I didn't pay $1000, I paid $899. Secondly, I needed/wanted a second HD receiver. Third, the better HD receivers out there cost over $600 last time I looked. The delta price between a "plain ole" HD receiver versus a TiVo wasn't enough to keep me from buying the TiVo. Like I said, I do like it's capabilities and I do use it as "intended" (in fact Survivor and CSI will both be recorded for viewing later this evening) but I also want to be able to "surf". There is absofickenlutely no good reason why the guide has to be so encumbered speed wise. It certainly would not have any operational affect on the way most TiVo'ers use their TiVo's but it would have great benefits to those of us who are not fully assimilated.
Posted by: borghe
geof.. see above.. try using the list guide combined with ffwd and rwd to move through time slots... about the only thing you are missing from the grid guide as far as I can tell then is the color/genre designations and the icons (HD, CC, LBX, DD, etc).
Posted by: ddarche
My HD Tivo (my 1st Tivo) has not arrived, hopefully next week, but I agree with the point that I want BOTH aspects to work well. Channel lists/favorites and all of the Tivo recording features.
I don't really channel surf surf much anymore but me and the wife have adapted to the guide concept on my Hughes e86 (and earlier D* receivers) I have four favorites lists set up and we use the them all of the time. The e86 is no speed demon when switching guides or favories but I certainly hope the Tivo is not slower than the e86 - Yikes!
I assumed, that by now, it would be the best DVR available and also be a great HD receiver with a great GUI. Is this incorrect ?
Dave D
Posted by: PRMan
FF and REW also work in the DirecTV guide, BTW. So between PageUp, PageDn, FF and REW, it's fast enough for me (DSR6000).
I use the guide sometimes to find a show because it can be easier to do a Season Pass that way, especially if you don't know the exact title.
Still, between Season Passes and Wishlists, I record most of what I want to see. If I don't, I just waste hours on end channel surfing.
Posted by: Bodie
I love the Tivo Guide. It is much better than the D* guides.
It shows more info at one time (everything that's on now (or in the next 5 minutes) for ~10 channels (I'm not at home and can't check), the next ~10 things that are coming up on the selected channel), and a description of what's on now.
I usually do a quick scan of what's currently on, then check for what's coming up later on channels that I like to watch. That is of course once I've watched through my now playing list :D
Posted by: Geof in CO
quote:
Originally posted by ddarche
The e86 is no speed demon when switching guides or favories but I certainly hope the Tivo is not slower than the e86 - Yikes!
Dave D
You'll be in for a HUGE shock. The Guides (both of them) are way slower than the E86 (for example, it can take up to 5 seconds to paint the DirecTv guide). Also, there is no Favorite list and there is only one custom station list.
---
borghe,
I have used the TiVo List guide and know of the shortcut you mentioned. So far I keep switching back to the DirecTv guide. I really see advantages to both different guide styles. I wish there were two remote buttons (one for each type of guide). It's too bad they made it so hard to switch guide types.
Posted by: mchaney
quote:
Originally posted by Bodie
I love the Tivo Guide. It is much better than the D* guides.
It shows more info at one time (everything that's on now (or in the next 5 minutes) for ~10 channels (I'm not at home and can't check), the next ~10 things that are coming up on the selected channel), and a description of what's on now.
Actually the Tivo list guide shows much less information than the D* guide which is why the Tivo list guide is faster. If you want to quickly scan a block of related channels (like TLC, Discovery, The Science Channel, Animal Planet, etc.) for shows that are on in the next hour or so, the Tivo list guide just sucks, plain and simple.
Also, the fact that the old Tivos were too slow is no excuse in my mind for the ones on a $1000 Tivo to also be slow. Getting it wrong twice isn't better.
There is no way to quickly search a block of channels as above without using the D* guide. Also, to those who think Tivos are omniscient, they are not. To know what shows you want to record, you need to use the guide pretty regularly to scan through things and see what is on. If all you ever want to do is watch the same stuff, you'll never need the guide. If you want to see what new offerings are on that are not covered by season passes and wish lists, the guide is used regularly. I do like to watch new stuff, even stuff that I haven't thought to put on a wish list until I see it on the guide first, so I use the guide. For some, maybe TV is only about watching the same recurring sitcoms over and over, but that's not for me.
Mike
Posted by: borghe
I don't how the Tivo guide shows much less information. As for searching a quick block of channels, between the Tivo list and ffwd and rwd, there is most definitely a quick way...
like I said before, the only thing you lose on the Tivo guide is the icons (DD, CC, LBX, HD, etc) and the genre color designations. If this isn't true, I would like to hear what else.. but please be specific, not just "You lose a lot more". Because besides the logos and colors, I don't see what else you lose on the Tivo guide.
Posted by: Griffon
Coming from a 4 or so year old Replay 4040 I can say unequivocally that the D*TV grid guide is a complete and utter joke when it comes to performance. My god, I have never seen such poor rendering accept for in free cable POS cable boxes. I can Not believe they won't take the time to fix this glaring eyesore of a problem that makes there box look like a $10 cable junker. The wife approval rating absolutely bottomed out when she was trying to surf around for something last night, and she was dully unimpressed with the Tivo channel list but at least was painful to use (not enough info at a glance though)... not good, not good at all, it is simple indefensible in a this high end of a product.
Posted by: avNeophyte
I don't see how anyone can argue that the guides on the HD-TiVo are 'acceptable'. This is my first and only TiVo so I can't compare it to other TiVo models but the incredibly slow performance of the D* guide is unacceptable. I just can't understand why it is SO slow. Incomprehensible.
I know I have not adapted to the TiVo paradigm yet but I also prefer a good D* guide implementation over the TiVo guide. MUCH more information. With the D* guide on the Sony HD-200 I could see the current and upcoming shows on a block of 8 channels at a time. The TiVo guide has its strong points (scanning a channel to setup recording and season passes) but there is no way that you can argue that it shows more information at one time than a decent D* guide.
I also miss the 'Favorite Channels' screen from the HD-200. Press one button and up pops a matrix with the logos of my 25 favorite channels. Makes it real easy to 'surf' live TV. The HD-200 had some annoying bugs but it also had a few real gems.
I'm quite happy with my new HD-TiVo and I'm sure I will adapt to its quirks but it does need some important usability improvements. Changes that would seem to be fairly easy to implement. I'm sure I'll get accustomed to watching TV without these features but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't make the product better. Technology advances quickly and TiVo had better keep ahead of the competition or they risk getting left behind.
Posted by: borghe
quote:
Originally posted by avNeophyte
I could see the current and upcoming shows on a block of 8 channels at a time.
You can do the same thing on Tivo guide. just go to the block of channels and hit ffwd to advance it a half hour at a time.
Posted by: BobJ2004
I got this nice new HD Tivo , I was going to show people, but the Guide is so Darn Slow its almost embarising.
Why cant they make it like the RCA standard Direct TV receiver. That is one increadible guide. Sooooo fast.
I hope they fix this.
If no one complains to Direct TV they wont ever do anything.
Maybe the next update will be faster, but if they do not think anything is wrong that wont.
Posted by: jdk
quote:
Originally posted by avNeophyte
I'm quite happy with my new HD-TiVo and I'm sure I will adapt to its quirks but it does need some important usability improvements. Changes that would seem to be fairly easy to implement. I'm sure I'll get accustomed to watching TV without these features but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't make the product better. Technology advances quickly and TiVo had better keep ahead of the competition or they risk getting left behind.
I agree 100%. While today you'd have to pry my HR10-250 out of my cold dead hands, if the Moxi unit delivers on its promises, or some other more user-friendly DVR appears, the HR10-250 would end up on the curb on trash day.
Tivo's is in a siutation where they're currently the best or only combination of functionality and features, so we have to either take it or go without. If they don't improve and innovate, they're leaving themselves exposed to competition.
Posted by: borghe
lol... I love it.. Tivo has been leading the way in DVRs since they created the industry, and now people are saying they better start innovating?
this thread is officially dead...
Posted by: btwyx
quote:
Originally posted by Geof in CO
Well for one thing I don't what to sit down and pre-plan everything I may or may not want to watch.
I don't. I just go to the Now Playing list and see what there is to watch. All the season passes etc mean there's always plenty there. I occasionally go looking for new shows I might want to watch, but I'm not pre-planning when I want to watch it.
Just to be clear, I totally agree that the DTV guide is (almost) totally useless in its current incarnation and its a crime to include it. I just ignore it, and I do like the TiVo/list guide, I think it shows more information that I'm actually interested in at once and makes useful information more acceible. Obviously others dissagree on the utility of the guides.
Posted by: avNeophyte
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
You can do the same thing on Tivo guide. just go to the block of channels and hit ffwd to advance it a half hour at a time.
Either I'm missing a capability of the TiVo guide or you don't fully appreciate the benefits of a good D* guide. With a good D* guide, you can see AT ONE TIME (without having to push buttons to page through the data) the current and upcoming (say next 2 to 4 hours) programming for a block of channels (8 to 10 usually).
I have a TiVo and you can't do that with the TiVo guide. You can nearly do it with the TiVo's D* guide but it has several limitations. First (and foremost) is that it is unbearably slow. I'm a channel surfer and I like to page through lots of channel blocks with the D* guide to quickly scan what is on and coming up on all of the channels I typically watch. It would take hours to do that with either of the TiVo's current guides. I know that 'hours' is an exageration but it is too slow to use! Secondly, the D* guide doesn't show enough channels on one screen at one time. Thirdly, the D* guide on the TiVo doesn't show a large enough time span on the screen at one time.
To be blunt, IT JUST SUCKS!
Posted by: rezdog
After using the HR10-250 for a couple of days, and then going back to the HDVR2, is like night and day for me. My HDVR2 actually seems fast compared to the HR10-250. And this is in all respects. Guide, control interaction, the HR10-250 just seems sluggish. The guide is by far the worst. Even the non DTV guide is slower. As happy as I am to have the HD Tivo, I'm very disappointed in the performance/responsiveness of it.
Posted by: avNeophyte
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
lol... I love it.. Tivo has been leading the way in DVRs since they created the industry, and now people are saying they better start innovating?
this thread is officially dead...
DVRs currently have a very small market penetration. I personally think that is going to change very quickly. Having the largest market share among the early adopters is no guarantee of success in the long term.
TiVo won't be in business long if their decision makers think like you do. They have a great product but they won't survive if they don't keep improving it. This is going to be a very competitive market space.
Posted by: avNeophyte
I've had my HR10-250 for one week now so I suspect it should be caught up on the guide data.
Has anyone else noticed how sluggish this machine is to respond to input from the remote control? It seems like it takes nearly a second or so to react to most any key press. When I change channels by entering the new channel number there is a noticeable delay between when I press buttons and when the digits appear on the screen. Same thing for entering the parental controls password. It's just sluggish.
Is this just me? Is this typical of all TiVo systems?
Posted by: GreyGhost00
How much guide data does the Tivo keep as opposed to regular non-DVR STBs? Obviously the slowness of the guide is a function of this to some extent - the more data that must be indexed and sorted, then the longer it's going to take to render on screen. Correct? Also, is there an issue with disk access or some other bottleneck? Keep in mind that the unit is already laying down two streams to the HD concurrently. Accessing the guide data is yet another process requesting disk access. What's the RPM of the drive in the HR10-250?
Perhaps someone with further knowledge can enlighten me.
:confused:
Posted by: klimekt
I can say the same thing about my 5-year-old DTC-100. Even that interface is faster and better then what HD Tivo provides. Somebody already hit the nail on the head - it's an embarrassment that a product of this caliber has such poor interface.
Posted by: borghe
avneophyte - ok, either you are not getting what I am saying or you are WAY to picky.
go to a group of channels on the Tivo guide. you see everything that is on those channels right now at this half hour timeslot. Now press ffwd to go ahead a half hour. again for another half hour. page down and see the next block for that half hour. rwd to go back half an hour.
so there you go... viewing hours in advance on a large block of channels..
now by comparison, the E86.. oh yeah.. sure you could see the next 2-4 hours, butgo ahead a half hour on that.. it could take up to 10 seconds to go ahead. try viwewing what was going to be on 10 hours ahead on a channel and it could take up to a minute or more just to get there. Tivo I can view tomorrows listings on a channel in a few seconds. I can view tomorrows listings on a block of channels in a few seconds...
I really am not getting this major downside.. as far as I can see, it's different and that's all.. I still don't see what you are actually losing. On the DirecTV grid guide you can see hours in advance on a block of channels, on the Tivo guide you can see hours in advance on a block of channels... the same thing, you just accomplish it differently.
quote:
Originally posted by avNeophyte
DVRs currently have a very small market penetration. I personally think that is going to change very quickly. Having the largest market share among the early adopters is no guarantee of success in the long term.
TiVo won't be in business long if their decision makers think like you do. They have a great product but they won't survive if they don't keep improving it. This is going to be a very competitive market space.
if they don't keep improving it? you are kidding, right? they already have season passes, wishlists, tuned suggestions and suggestion based recording, things no one else has. They also on SA (and presumably eventually DirecTV boxes) have HMO which allows for organization of your shows, transferring your shows between units, and web based scheduling. They have upcoming the ability to transfer shows to your computer, watching on your computer, and recoding to DVD-R.. They have stand alone DVD recorders with the system and service built in. They now offer a basic service on SAs and soon on DirecTV boxes as well with no monthly fee...
and you are saying they don't innovate because the guide you want to use is slow? wow.. just wow...
Posted by: avNeophyte
GG - I have no idea if your theory is correct or not but it certainly sounds logical. Even if it is true, there is still no reason why they couldn't/shouldn't keep the short term guide info cached in memory (or somewhere) for quick access.
quote:
Originally posted by GreyGhost00
How much guide data does the Tivo keep as opposed to regular non-DVR STBs? Obviously the slowness of the guide is a function of this to some extent - the more data that must be indexed and sorted, then the longer it's going to take to render on screen. Correct? Also, is there an issue with disk access or some other bottleneck? Keep in mind that the unit is already laying down two streams to the HD concurrently. Accessing the guide data is yet another process requesting disk access. What's the RPM of the drive in the HR10-250?
Perhaps someone with further knowledge can enlighten me.
:confused:
Posted by: avNeophyte
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
Now press ffwd to go ahead a half hour. again for another half hour. page down and see the next block for that half hour. rwd to go back half an hour.
so there you go... viewing hours in advance on a large block of channels..
That's the crux of our complaint. You can't see all of this information on the screen at one time.
There is a lot of real estate on a hi-def screen. I'm just suggesting that they could make better use of it.
And yes, I agree that the TiVo guide is superior when scanning futher forward in time.
Unfortunately, I'm a channel surfer and I like to quickly and efficiently browse what is on now and in the short term. I can't do that with either guide on the TiVo. If I had never had that feature I wouldn't miss it but I have had it (and used it a lot) and I do miss it.
I'm also not suggesting that the TiVo isn't a great product. It is. I just paid a lot of money for one and I'm happy I did. But just because it is a great product doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be improved.
Posted by: dropper
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
lol... I love it.. Tivo has been leading the way in DVRs since they created the industry, and now people are saying they better start innovating?
this thread is officially dead...
Have they really been leading the way. I know UltimateTV's aren't perfect, but I have never read the complaints, user interface wise that I have heard about the TiVo's. TiVo's have no PIP, no picture in guide, no caller ID (without hacks), slow grids and no screen saver.
What has TiVo done the has been really innovative over there original product? If you are talking about HMO and folders and such, okay, but it seems like many people are DirecTiVo and have no access to such things. I would really like to know what the reason DirecTV keeps the folder thing on hold? They didn't have a problem with allowing it for UTV's.
It's just a shame that Microsoft pulled out of the market. It's only real limiting factor was the HD size barrier, but it was really easy to get the units up to 105 hours.
Memory is relatively cheap, so why didn't they bump up the memory on these new TiVo's? How much memory could it really take? Non-TiVo STB's don't seem to have a problem with the grid guide.
I have fears that if only 1 supplier makes anything, they will have no incentive to innovate. These cable box PVR's aren't helping either. They are lowering the bar. If people are willing to use those POS, then DirecTV will see it as a cost savings and come out with there own POS.
Keith
Posted by: mchaney
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
I don't how the Tivo guide shows much less information. As for searching a quick block of channels, between the Tivo list and ffwd and rwd, there is most definitely a quick way...
like I said before, the only thing you lose on the Tivo guide is the icons (DD, CC, LBX, HD, etc) and the genre color designations. If this isn't true, I would like to hear what else.. but please be specific, not just "You lose a lot more". Because besides the logos and colors, I don't see what else you lose on the Tivo guide.
I can be as specific as you like. First of all, the D* guide lists 8 channels over three time slots (for example, 2:00pm, 2:30pm, and 3:00pm) giving up to 24 entries on the grid. The Tivo list gives you 16: 8 currently playing shows and 8 upcoming shows on the current channel. That's 16 entries versus 24. The D* guide also has the icons (of which the HD is the most useful) so that's even more information that is missing on the Tivo guide.
Now, I don't know how you could argue that there is more data on the Tivo list but let's just say you can. Even then, there are major drawbacks with the Tivo list guide. My two biggest complaints about the Tivo guide are:
(1) First, it is much easier to know what programs start and end at what times by looking at a visual timeline representation like that of the D* guide. It's simply faster to know what is coming on and going off at what times looking at it visually.
(2) Second, the D* guide allows you to see what is on in the next three 30 minute time slots at one time without scrolling to try to figure it out. It's all there on the screen. When you are looking at a listing of ABC, NBC, and CBS stations at 9:00pm, the only way you are going to know that 20/20 is on ABC at 10:00pm is to manually scroll down to the ABC station and then you'll see it. You'll catch it in a glance looking at the D* grid without having to (slowly I might add) scroll to each station to find out what is on after the current show.
The above are the reasons that I'll put up with a slow D* grid rather than use something where I have to scroll to every channel manually in order to see what is in the next time slot.
I almost always want to know what is coming on next (like in the next 30 minutes to an hour) in order to see if anything new is coming on that the Tivo might have missed. This is much easier to do in the D* guide. Look at it this way. The Tivo guide is heavily biased on showing you a single channel's information. The Tivo guide goes hours out into the future on a single channel but leaves the other displayed channels behind. You get seven channels showing only the currently playing show and too much on the eighth channel. The D* guide spreads the data out better so that rather than giving almost all the data to one channel, you can see more data over all 8 displayed channels. To me, that's much more useful than knowing what is coming on 7 hours from now on the current channel.
And... the Rew/FF buttons do help but only in a very minor way. You still can't visually see when programs start and end so if you are looking for shows that are starting soon to catch them from the beginning, there's no easy way to tell when you FF whether you are looking at shows that already started and are carried over from the previous time slot, are just starting, etc. You waste a lot of time trying to read numbers when all that can be done visually on the D* grid.
Mike
Posted by: borghe
ok, I won't get all surly anymore, I will just describe how I channel surf..
if I just want to watch something, I will page down and see if anything is on right now. if it is within 10 minutes of the next half hour I will go ahead to the next timeslot (if it isn't there in 10 minutes I don't want to catch the last 10 minutes of it). For me, knowing what is on beyond the next 40 minutes isn't channel surfing, now you are bordering on "planning" your TV.. and in planning what I am going to watch, I would rather flip to Now Showing than wait 1.5 hours for it to come on....
other channel surfing I do is with Wishlists.. I have category wishlists setup for most movie categories.. I go to the wishlist, select the genre (western, horror, comedy), and page down and see what's currently on (almost always something doing it this way) and seeing what is coming up.
I guess my main thing is you guys are screaming saying it's worse... Well, to be honest I don't remember using a directv grid guide regularly (you'll have to forgive me, it was in early '01), but what I do know is that I wouldn't trade my Tivo guide for the world.. I used a grid guide for occasional viewing on my E86 and at the in-law's for cable, and I just think to myself, uggghh... how slow and cumbersome (their guide is around as fast as my E86).
I am just asking you to take a little more of a look at the Tivo guide.. play around with it more. Play around with withlists (from the menu) or filters (while on the Tivo guide hit the Info button).
After having the Tivo guide for over 3 years now, I would never in a million years go back to the grid guide.. Everyone has their own preference to be sure, I just find it weird that something I love so much others think it is absolutely awful.
one thing I think has happened from what it is sounding like though is that my definition of channel surfing has changed from yours. I used to agree.. channel surfing was flipping through and seeing what is on or what's going to be on in the near future... now channel surfing to me is seeing what's going to be on in the WAAAY future.. My horror wishlist returned 229 results in the next 12 days... some were late night creature features on a local station (cheesy presenter and all), some were Mystery channel latenight Hammer flicks, etc.. now THAT'S channel surfing.. I always have new stuff sitting in my Now Playing list.. I can honestly say after just having my unit for 6 days, the recorded suggestions are already spot on 75% of the time, my actual passes and wishlists have the rest of my Now Playing loaded, and I have more shows recorded than I possibly have time to watch..
just give it time before decalring a stinker.. between learning to quickly use the Tivo guide as well as how you watch TV slowly changing (it will, trust me), I just think you are reacting really strongly to something that might not be so big..
as for speed compared to other tivos, well, all I have are series 1's (a hughes and a sony) and this thing is like lightning compared to those.. granted both have 120GB in them, but my wife actually chuckled at how fast the tivo guide and recordings were.. so unless the series 2 boxes were light years faster than the series 1 boxes, I have a hard time believing this thing is significantly slower than other series 2's (it is the exact same hardware after all with more memory and essentially the same software).
Posted by: Geof in CO
Well for one thing with the DirecTv grid you can get the next 1.5 to 2 hours of programming on each channel. That shows a lot more info that the next 1/2 on every channel except the one that is highlighted.
With the TiVo you only see whats on now or in the next half hour. Sometimes I like to pick programs that end before (or right at) my bedtime. Finding that with the TiVo guide is more work: Seeing what's on each channel for the next 1.5 hours is more work with the TiVo guide. If you want to see all programs that are on a particular station then the TiVo guide excels. But the only efficient way (that is if the guide were faster) to see the programming for the next 1.5 to 2 hours on every channel is to use the DirecTv guide. Sorry but I don't want to have to keep hitting the button to see what's on every channel for the 1.5 hours (and then pushing the buttons even more to get a program description).
BTW, even the TiVo guide is unacceptably slow.
FYI: With the E86 if you highlighted the channel logo (instead of a time slot) it would show the next six programs on that channel (similar to the Tivo List Guide). And the E86 guide draws to the screen in a second (or less).
I do not clearly recall off hand but I don't remember DD or LB or HD info showing up in the TiVo guide unless you have the program highlighted. With the D* guide the LB, DD, HD logos are plainly visible even if the program is not highlighted.
Speeding these guides up does NOT negatively affect anyone - but to those of us who do use the guides the slowness is a major PITA and big time mistake (IMO).
-----
btwyx,
Yes I see your point but the Now playing list only includes what you've set up to record (or TiVo suggestions). At one point you had to figure that out in advance. I don't want to sit down and scroll thru the guide looking at every program on every channel for every moment in time to decide what to record. Certainly there are some programs I always want it to record. But, for example, I did not set it to record Battle of the Bulge the other night and I found that only by wading thru the guide, so I watched that live while the other TiVo tuner was recording some commercial ridden program.
Posted by: Geof in CO
Right on target mchaney.
borghe,
No one is saying your way is wrong....but lets face it, we each have our preferences. Like I said earlier, I wish I had quick access to both guides. And I don't think anyone is saying the Tivo is a stinker. I do think we're saying it could use some significant improvement regarding Guide speed...personally if I thought this thing was a stinker it would be gone by now.
Posted by: midas
quote:
Originally posted by dropper
What has TiVo done the has been really innovative over there original product? If you are talking about HMO and folders and such, okay, but it seems like many people are DirecTiVo and have no access to such things. I would really like to know what the reason DirecTV keeps the folder thing on hold? They didn't have a problem with allowing it for UTV's.
First, you blame Tivo for not inovating. But then you mention inovations that Tivo has made but DirecTV has decided not to implement. But that doesn't take away the fact that they are indeed inovations.
And to further answer your question, I can give you at least 3 more very major innovations since the original product:
Season Pass Manager
Wishlists
Recording History
All of those were very major innovations not included in the original product. Some other minor innovations are padding and the ability to bypass the 28 day rule. And there's a ton more.
And oh yea, one more thing, the ability to record HD programs. That's kind of innovative :D
Posted by: borghe
ok mchaney, I get some of what you are saying...
the icons (and genre colors) I already conceded to... yes there is no HD icon... however in regards to HD icon, I have a wishlist setup for Audio & Video/HDTV. I go to Menu->Pick Programs->Wishlists->HDTV->View Upcoming and it shows me everything in the guide data (usually around two weeks) that has HDTV designated. To me that is much more useful (again, to me) for finding some HD to watch than scanning through hundreds of channels of which only a handful would actually have HD on... but that is preference, I am just offering up a way that you can basically see that same info.
As for the 16 channels vs 24, to me it's 6 of one, half a dozen of another. I have gotten very accustomed to seeing at least the next 4 hours on a given channel and up to the next 16 hours on a movie channel.. I HATED browsing through the movie channels on the grid guide as you only get to see usually the current movie or sometimes the current movie and the next movie. being able to see the next eight movies is a godsend.
as for just channel surfing over the next hour or so, learn the ffwd button.. it is your friend. you can still see the next 1.5 hours across all channels with just the flick of a button, and moving ahead in time on the Tivo guide is light years faster than the directv grid guide on my old E86.
Oh, I will concede to you though about the movie start and end times.. that was the only thing that I still actually miss on the tivo guide..
Most of what you are complaining about though can be solved with the ffwd button. and for me at least it is nicely packaged up.. if it is 6:50pm, just hit the ffwd button once and see what's on at 7. Don't like what's on at 7? Hit it again and check out 7:30...
You can accomplish the same on both guides, it is just in different ways..
Posted by: mchaney
I think a lot depends on what you watch and how you watch. There are a lot of things that I watch that would never be picked up on a season pass or wish list. I watch some of the shows like PrimeTime, 20/20, Dateline, etc. and most of the time, the description on those shows is "Investigative Journalism". Sometimes I'll watch the intro to see what stories they are playing and most of the time, I'm not interested, but sometimes they'll have something that interests me. Due to how rare it is that something on those interests me, I don't want to record them every time they are on just to decide whether I want to see it or not.
The same goes for things on other channels like the Science channel, TLC, Discovery, etc.. There's no way that I could anticipate that TLC will be running a special on the Mars Rovers unless I see it on the guide. If I put in Mars Rover on a Wish list, then it'll get all the useless NASA news announcements and other things I don't want to see. If I put in general insterests like "Technology" then it will record 225 shows a day and it'll take me longer to manage my "Now Playing" list, deleting 90% of what it records, that I won't have any time left to watch TV.
;)
Mike
Posted by: jack1313
Not looking to get flamed here, and not trying to do any subversive advertising, but I know there is a "cache card" available for series 1 DirecTivos that puts the Tivo DB in high-speed SDRAM...I've never seen it used in person, but I've heard it is quite effective. They sell it at 9th Tee for $99 (http://www.9thtee.com/tivocachecard.htm). I don't know if they have tested it with an HD-TiVo, and I know you shouldn't have to pay an additional $99 to get the performance of a $999 piece of electronics up to an acceptable level, but if enough people show interest, maybe they will test it with/develop one for an HD-Tivo. Just an FYI.
On a personal level, I have a DirecTivo at home, and I have tried using the Tivo guide, and I don't like it either...I think it's just a matter of personal preference. I'm a channel surfer too, and I think contending that people who watch live TV with a Tivo are using it as a "glorified VCR" is a bit harsh. The (lack of) speed and small number of channels displayed in the D* guide compared to any other STB has always bothered me, and I can't believe Tivo/D* wouldn't have created either a faster guide or a higher resolution guide with more channels listed (figuring most who buy an HD-Tivo have an HDTV). It seems to me that there has been a lack of innovation here - For a product that was delayed >1 year from its original projected launch date, I'd expect a bit more...Faster operation, additional recording options, anything...As it stands, it's the same as my DSR6000, except it records HDTV. That's it. Not too belittle the value of that feature, as I consistently watch SD version of HD shows on my HDTV, as I can't give up my Tivo, but I don't think adding HDTV recording capabilities and changing nothing else is really innovation, especially after the amount of time it took to get this product to market. Aside from the suggestions, which are the feature I use the least, it doesn't seem to me that building the code to power a Tivo would really be that difficult...Build a DB of all the shows in the guide, index it a number of ways, add a "record" flag for each show, and design a UI that can search the index and activate the record flag...Not easy, but not impossible either. Seems to me all Tivo did was take their existing code base and add some new codecs. I want one, but I don't want one $1000 more than what I already have...Just my $0.02.
Posted by: borghe
mchaney, your last comment there is interesting.. with the mars rover for example, I would think you would almost prefer the Tivo guide, considering you can go to TLC and scan over the next 3-4 days for Mars content much quicker than with the grid guide. As for wishlists, you would be surprised how detailed you can get them. Do Keyword Mars/Interests/Space Exploration (yes that is a real choice), and I can't imagine a whole would come up that you wouldn't be interested in... give a few of the shows a thumbs up or two and you would be surprised what starts getting autorecorded for you..
and I recognize everyone's right to an opinion... never once did I mean otherwise.. as for speed, well, the DirecTV grid guide has ALWAYS been slow, and for some reason on the Tivo it has always been even slower. I think part of the lack of attention on that (just my guess) is that the DirecTV grid guide is not very conducive to how the Tivo works. It is a channel surfing guide, and arguably the Tivo isn't a channel surfing box (both in function as well as technical limitations). In that respect the Tivo guide is much better at hunting out shows 1, 2, or 16 hours from now to record, what the primary purpose of the unit is. This would be my guess as to why it hasn't been looked at.. Most people after a few months of using their Tivo prefer the Tivo guide (such as myself and most others).
I can see what you guys who were used to the grid guide are saying. Like I said in a previous post, I'm just saying give the Tivo guide a try. Eventually you will find no matter what you will become less of a channel surfer.. There will just be too much good stuff sitting in your now playing list.
Posted by: avNeophyte
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
ok, I won't get all surly anymore, I will just describe how I channel surf..
...
I am just asking you to take a little more of a look at the Tivo guide.. play around with it more. Play around with withlists (from the menu) or filters (while on the Tivo guide hit the Info button).
I don't think you have been surly at all. We're just pointing out a shortcoming of the TiVo when used to channel surf in a certain way. You don't use the product in the same way so the product deficiency doesn't affect you and therefor isn't important to you. Nothing wrong with that at all. I have just been trying to point out and help you understand one relatively minor, but annoying, issue that I have with the TiVo that I wish they would remedy.
Regarding the TiVo guide. I do appreciate its value for certain activities and use it for those activities. I like it and would be upset to lose it. I just wish that TiVo would improve the performance of the TiVo guide and improve both the performance and layout of the D* guide.
Posted by: midas
Hey, if you guys want to see a slow guide, pick up a Panasonic TU-HDS20. That thing is slower than owl poop.
Posted by: Geof in CO
quote:
Originally posted by midas
Hey, if you guys want to see a slow guide, pick up a Panasonic TU-HDS20. That thing is slower than owl poop.
Owl poop is slow? Huh! :)
Seriously. one reason I never bothered to try that Panny unit was because of it's sloooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww guide.
Posted by: Nomarian
Can someone explain how the guide is processed. Is the slowness an issue with the hard drive speed and cache or the general processing power the unit itself?
I wonder if anyone has done a test with a faster hard drive with a larger cache to determine if the guide is any faster. I am migrating from an Ultimate TV and the guide on that is very fast. I can channel surf like a madman with it and I know I will have a conforming period with a slower guide.
Posted by: GreyGhost00
I believe (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that all activities from the User Interface are done from HD reads and not from memory. That places a high importance on disk I/O operations. I'm not sure what the RPM is of the stock HD in the HR10-250 - certainly *if* it's 5400 going to 7200 would improve things.
Posted by: bbodin
quote:
I wonder if anyone has done a test with a faster hard drive with a larger cache to determine if the guide is any faster. I am migrating from an Ultimate TV and the guide on that is very fast. I can channel surf like a madman with it and I know I will have a conforming period with a slower guide.
Well I have a HDVR2 with an updated drive with larger cache and 7200rpm (as opposed to the 5600 of the original) and it doesn't help the guide at all, so don't expect it to for the HD Tivo.
And it does take a conforming period...I was a channel surfer (and still am), but I'm slowly getting more used to using Tivo as it's supposed to be used, which means less channel surfing and more watching previously recorded shows.
When I get home in the evenings, first thing I do is scroll through shows to see if anything is on RIGHT NOW (which the tivo guide does just fine)...if not, I'm pulling up a previously recorded program.
Given this is how most people use the tivo, I doubt the focus has been on improving the other guide. Most tivo owners are wanting them to improve things like folders, sorting, etc...so improving a guide that few % of the users even use is very low on their priority list I'm sure.
Posted by: borghe
though the guide data is definitely held on the hard drive, the bottleneck is most likely located in the hardware itself. This is where the cachecard helped out in regards to database reads and caching. The problem is that in terms of the guide, at least the raw guide data (not the separate Tivo program data) even though all of the data is present on a fast hard drive, and DB programmer will tell you that having the data on a fast server is only half of the equation. The other half is how fast it can be accessed and transformed into what's needed. This I one would have to believe is an application operating in memory using CPU cycles. So the question here is, is that application well written and operating as fast as it possibly can?
Remember.. all of the non-Tivo DirecTV boxes run everything from EEPROMs and do nothing but process guide data and decode a single stream of audio and video. The Tivo is constantly running updating the Tivo DB, the DirecTV guide, and probably almost always decoding and/or recording two streams of data (with TivoWebPlus you can see even when the receiver is in standby the tuners are still locked onto channels and the guide data is still available on them).
In other words, the non-Tivo boxes are faster but also have a hell of a lot work to do on a 24 hour basis.
anyway, back to the question at hand, no, a faster drive and even more memory probably won't help in this case, and a cachecard only helps with DB operations.. no, in this case likely the only thing that will help is a faster CPU, but unless you can get ahold of a MIPS processor using the exact same instruction sets as the Tivo and are a pro with surface mounted ICs, you are pretty much out of luck.
Posted by: Griffon
That's funny that is just what my 4 year old replay has to do and it's guide data runs at a acceptable speed... sorry there is just no excuse for the D*TV guide situation, and I doubt there is even a reasonable explanation. If it's hardware issue that it fell through at design phase and that is ridiculous given that it was known issue on previous models. If it's a software issue they need to pony the heck up and fix it pronto. sure there are other ways do do things (I actually think the Tivo Guide is a bit slow on line moves and stacking page flips) but this is a feature of the box and is there to support different mind sets, it needs to perform correctly.
Posted by: Boddington's
Anyone out there using a Harmony 688' or equivalent's tiny remote guide as an alternative to surfing with D* or Tivo's guide. Like to know as I was planning on getting both.
Posted by: borghe
quote:
Originally posted by Griffon
That's funny that is just what my 4 year old replay has to do and it's guide data runs at a acceptable speed...
The replay isn't recording two things simultaneously.
The replay isn't receiving a proprietary and encrypted stream on even one, let alone both tuners that needs decrypting.
The replay isn't constantly processing new incoming guide data, only scheduled packaged downloads.
But most importantly, Replay was able to format all of their data exactly how they chose to.. The Tivo has to work with the same guide data format DirecTV has been sending down since 1994 and integrate that with their database information on each show.
If you think the ReplayTV and DirecTivo boxes are doing the exact same thing, then you really don't understand what a DirecTivo box does, let alone why it is different from an SA box or a ReplayTV box.
Posted by: Cheezmo
You would think that after spending two days indexing/formatting the data the way they want to it would be in a format they could display with reasonable speed. It is obviously not a high priority for them. The fact that one doesn't use it too much after you get all your season passes/etc. set up and watch mostly recorded programs is no excuse. It makes me feel like I'm using a slow out of date PC instead of a cutting edge new home theater component.
Posted by: Ed Campbell
You all DO realize that owls don't even have a poop chute?
Posted by: borghe
you fail to mention that new data is constantly being sent down. technically the data doesn't have tow days all to itself to be formatted. New guide data is continually being sent down by the satellite.
Posted by: Cheezmo
Just because the guide data is continually being sent down, doesn't mean it can't be processed efficiently. I'm sure they just collect it and then periodically do indexing to incorporate the new data. I don't see why that would necessary make display of the already indexed data slow.
Either way, what is the point of arguing about it? Unless you can talk to the developers and hear from them why it can't be faster, it is all conjecture. They either have a good technical reason or it hasn't been a priority.
It IS too slow. You can either complain about it (to DirecTV/TiVo if you want it to matter) or accept it.
Posted by: borghe
quote:
Originally posted by Cheezmo
It IS too slow. You can either complain about it (to DirecTV/TiVo if you want it to matter) or accept it.
Which is pretty much the point.. I didn't say that because I JUST posted that in a previous slow guide thread located on the front page. :P
If this bothers enough people and they complain, it will be resolved one way or another. If it is never resolved it seems that would be directly related to few people complaining. That seems to be the way things are tackled at DirecTV..
Posted by: Replevin
The guide is so slow. So much slower than my Sat-60. Perhaps some people got bad machines? Or is there some other explanation for the differing experiences other than - "I don't watch live tv."? I usually don't watch live tv either......but the guide on my machine is painfully slow.
Posted by: Geof in CO
And I urge everyone who is bothered by the guide speed to complain to DirecTv. As noted, that is the only way it will be addressed.
Posted by: borghe
quote:
Originally posted by Replevin
The guide is so slow. So much slower than my Sat-60. Perhaps some people got bad machines? Or is there some other explanation for the differing experiences other than - "I don't watch live tv."? I usually don't watch live tv either......but the guide on my machine is painfully slow.
this I entirely disagree with. the guide is faster than both my T60 and GXCEBOT... I can't speak compared to other Series 2 DirecTivos, but pretty much everything about the system is faster than my Series 1's, except of course when you change channels resulting in changing physical tuners (OTA to Sat for example).
Posted by: Replevin
quote:
Originally posted by borghe
this I entirely disagree with. the guide is faster than both my T60 and GXCEBOT... I can't speak compared to other Series 2 DirecTivos, but pretty much everything about the system is faster than my Series 1's, except of course when you change channels resulting in changing physical tuners (OTA to Sat for example).
Strange. Perhaps there are hardware issues after all. Pretty much everything about my hd-tivo is slower than or equal to (in speed) to my Sat-60.
Posted by: borghe
don't get me wrong.. the guide is definitely way slower than a non-Tivo DirecTV receiver... I was just referring to the Series 1 boxes I own, which themselves are much slower than a non-Tivo DirecTV receiver.
Posted by: Moby Ick
quote:
Originally posted by Boddington's
Anyone out there using a Harmony 688' or equivalent's tiny remote guide as an alternative to surfing with D* or Tivo's guide. Like to know as I was planning on getting both.
]
That's exactly what I do. The 688 has a few problems (small buttons and ergonomics) But it really does work very well. Check out my posts on the harmony thread, i explained exactly how to get the lists programmed. The problem with the harmony list is that you can only view 1/2 hour/3channels at a time, but it IS very fast.
I wish the HDTivo had the ability to have multiple favorite lists like my T160 had. It was so nice to have 4 favorite sets and be able to quickly get through the separate lists with a designated key.
Still love my HDTIVO though, faults and all.
Mike
Posted by: FikseGTS
I agree.. the guide is terribly slow.... my 4 year old DTC-100 is MUCH faster.... I can't believe they would implement this guide into something they are charging $1000 for.... maybe an update can fix this later on....
is there a form to use to complain to directv?
Posted by: vidiot
I've had my HD TiVo plugged in for about 12 hours now, it's downloaded about 12 days worth of guide data. IT'S STILL PAINFULLY SLOW. Will it ever get any faster?
I hate the TiVo List, so that is not an option.
Posted by: avNeophyte
No, the D* style guide won't get any better unless they fix it. You better get used to the TiVo guide or return the box.
Also, you might try clearing any thumb ratings you have entered. That supposedly affects the performance of the guide.
Posted by: vidiot
quote:
Originally posted by avNeophyte
No, the D* style guide won't get any better unless they fix it. You better get used to the TiVo guide or return the box.
Also, you might try clearing any thumb ratings you have entered. That supposedly affects the performance of the guide.
Well I've only had it for 12 hours, make that 15 now. I've recorded 2 shows, and pushed thumbs up twice. I hope that's not too much for it to handle.
I honestly can't believe anyone would manufacture a display that is so agonizingly slow. I'm not about to return it, HD is incredible, but I won't be singing it's praise without a disclaimer each time. :eek:
Posted by: vidiot
quote:
Originally posted by Geof in CO
And I urge everyone who is bothered by the guide speed to complain to DirecTv. As noted, that is the only way it will be addressed.
Please EVERYONE contact DirecTV, I have. This Guide issue is unacceptable!
Posted by: scottchez
THis is what my brother says to do (an ex programing with Hughes)
Reset set your Thumbs up and down DAILy.
This fixed is.
The problem is with the TIVO software, they (meaning TIVO) stores this data and upload s it an the sells thedata.
Tivo is refusing to dump the data cache.
Even if you dont use the thumbs you still are. Every time you record anything or rewind it is a data table entry.
Every time a page on the guide is drawn the table is read.
Direct wants Tivo to change and just clear the data every 24 hrs, but they wont.
This is why Direct is dumping Tivo by the end of the yeard for they SKY DVR, it does not have the slow guide issue.
Till then keep calling Direct TV and Opening Problem tickets, these get tracked on a bar graph that upper mgmt sees monthly.
One thousand dollars is a lot to pay for the slowest guide in the country.
Posted by: vidiot
Well this is ridiculous. I've only had my TiVo for 1.5 days, recorded maybe 10 programs. To reset the Thumbs database "will take about an hour."
What!?!?!? An hour? It's crazy to think that I'm going to do this daily, waste 1 out of 24 hours per day doing this.
It should be 5 minutes tops. Or better yet, I shouldn't have to do this at all.
Posted by: vidiot
I can honestly say, I think the guide actually got S L O W E R !!!
Posted by: scottchez
Yes resetting the Thumbs can take up to an Hour.
Proof of the Software design flaw that Tivo wont fix. Its not Direct TV.
Its Tivo in that they need to keep the data for the uploads. that then sell the data.
Posted by: NJChris
quote:
Originally posted by scottchez
This is why Direct is dumping Tivo by the end of the yeard for they SKY DVR, it does not have the slow guide issue.
Uh huh....ok
Posted by: bkdtv
quote:
Direct wants Tivo to change and just clear the data every 24 hrs, but they wont.
This is why Direct is dumping Tivo by the end of the yeard for they SKY DVR, it does not have the slow guide issue.
I don't know if this is true, but I would hope that DirecTV would make a more responsive guide as a key requirement of any new DirecTivo design. Other competing products have announced Tivo features like name-based recording and season passes, but don't suffer the same slow responsiveness.
Posted by: vidiot
Do standalone TiVos have this problem? And if so, did it get fixed in v4?
I'm hoping that this gets fixed in the next major software revision.
Posted by: bkdtv
vidiot,
Yes, SA Tivos have the same problem, and no, it hasn't improved in v4.
Posted by: vidiot
So I should be complaining to TiVo then.
Posted by: jcolec
Perhaps DirecTV is finally getting the word on the slow Guide....
Found this post by Dan Collins over as DBSForums:
"Interestingly, speeding up the DirecTV-style grid seems to be a priority for DirecTV. I've been invited to answer a couple of user surveys conducted both by TiVo and DirecTV and both had several questions regarding the speed of the grid guide. Hopefully, this will translate into different data queries being written that are better suited to building the grid."
Posted by: jcolec
He also posted the following information regarding how the Guide works:
"The guide problem is a software issue.
The TiVo-style guide displays the current program for 10 channels (which is stored in memory all the time), and the next 10 programs for one channel at a time (which is retrieved from disk on demand). Each time you scroll up or down a channel, a new query is executed against the database to collect the schedule for that channel.
When you use the DirecTV-style guide, the software STILL queries the database for the next 10 programs on the first channel displayed. It then discards most of the returned data, since it only needs 1.5 hours worth. This query is then executed for EACH channel in the guide - 8 distinct queries. This is repeated EVERY time the grid is refreshed.
An alternative indexing system and a rewrite of the queries used would greatly improve the performance of the DirecTV grid-style guide.
__________________
Dan Collins
DBSForums Administrator"
Good stuff
Posted by: vidiot
Thanks for the update! Now, if only I were to get that survey...
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