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Tivo RGB output

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Posted by: rscott4563

Does any one know what form of RGB output a Tivo uses, is it RGsB (sync on green) or is it RGBs (sync on composite)?

Thanks

Ryan



Posted by: Sneals2000

Tivo uses standard SCART RGB - which is syncless RGB, with the syncs derived from the composite video output on the SCART. This means there is no dedicated syncs signal (so RGBs kit that requires clean syncs needs the composite video signal to be fed through an external sync separator).

RGB / Composite switching is signalled on pin 16 (Fast Blanking)



Posted by: rscott4563

Thanks for your help, though I don't think that was what I was hoping for :( oh well.

Cheers

Ryan



Posted by: Heuer

Should not be a problem with the Panasonic monitor you are using - I have a TH-42 PWD5. In my case I run TiVo RGB into a RGB/Component convertor (60) and then you can go straight into the Panny's Component inputs or, more sensibly, to the Denon AVR. This means you can leave the Monitor set to Component and simply switch between sources on the AVR.

If you want to up the quality you can feed the TiVo through a Brite-View box (300) which converts TiVo to Progressive Scan. I did this and the quality is stunning. Further enhance your experience by switching TiVo to Mode 0, apply LJ's fix and you will not be able to tell the difference between Sky and DVD!

David



Posted by: rscott4563

Should just point out that my reason for asking was to see if I could feed the Tivo RGB signal directly to a Lumagen ProHDP video processor and I've found out I can, using a Scart to 4 BNC cable, using pins 7(B), 11(G), 15(R) and then 16 as the composite sync as the Lumagen will accept RGBHV, RGBs or even RGsB, so big thumbs up there.. :up: :D

I already have a first gen Lumagen Vision and currently use a RGB to S-Video convertor to connect the Tivo to the processor and then to the plasma via RGBHV in to the PC input at 768p and it looks great, but I'm hoping for even more improvements when I get the new Lumagen.

One thing I didn't understand was your comment about Mode 0 and LJ's fix, whats this, how can I make my Tivo even better?? :confused: Please do tell..

Cheers

Ryan



Posted by: Heuer

TiVo has several recording modes which you can change providing you have an Airnet or TiVonet connection.

Search the forum for details on VBR, mode 0, RGB etc and you will find all the information you require.

David



Posted by: xxxx

Originally posted by Heuer
If you want to up the quality you can feed the TiVo through a Brite-View box (300) which converts TiVo to Progressive Scan. I did this and the quality is stunning.

This can be had for 229, delivered. Is it really any good? Doesn't it introduce something nasty? IME these bolt-on things usually do.



Posted by: Heuer

The Zinwell is a superb bit of kit. beautifully made to pro-studio standards. Not only does it provide deinterlacing but it also gives you full brightness, contrast and colour control over the TiVo output. At 230 a bargain.

I have been using it for 8 months now with not a single hitch or compromise. Colours are perfect and resolution is much better. It will NOT work on CRT TV's of course - only plasma, LCD, DVD or projectors.

I also use Chord cables for all signals and an Isotek mains conditioner which have also helped.

I approached these upgrades step by step (only went to mode 0 last weekend) to make sure each enhancement delivered. They all have, but biggest improvements came with the Zinwell and Mode 0. Give it a try as it is a relatively cheap upgrade, certainly compared to the bill I got in upgrading my Krell FPB amp to the latest spec!



Posted by: Heuer

You can get the RGB to Component convertor here:

www.rgbtosvideo.com



Posted by: guydewdney

<homer>

hmmm krell....

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_2/images/krell-amp-rear-panel.jpg

</h>



Posted by: Heuer

No that is the baby Krell. Mine is the mothership!



Posted by: rscott4563

Update to my question, I've been doing some more reading into RGB scart output and I've found that the RGB output of most UK Scart devices would be either:

quote:
1 - Sync on green (RGsB) the sync signals are sent as a combined signal at about 0.3V along with the Green signal. In this case the green signal has a peak to peak voltage of 1V

2 - Separate composite sync (RGB s) In this case the sync signal is sent as a combined sync signal it is the norm here to use the composite video feed which has a 0.3V combined sync incorporated. You can get a small horizontal picture shift due to the sync being delayed as part of the composite video encoding. This is the most common method of sending RGB from a DVD or set top box. All 75R signals



The other options for an RGB output are:

quote:
3 Separate combined sync (RGB S) (RGB H/V) Here the sync is sent as a combined (mixed) signal at 5V (TTL) levels. This is often found on projectors or large monitors that have four BNC as the inputs. RGB is 75R signal, S is high impedance usually > 1K

4 Separate sync (RGB H+ V) used on SVGA connectors and large screens or projectors with 5 BNC or 5 Phono inputs. The sync here is sent as separate horizontal and vertical signals at 5V (TTL) levels. RGB is 75R signal, H and V are high impedance usually > 1K



But these are very rarely available from consumer equipment such as set top boxes or dvd players.

Now its the first two that I'm interested in as these are the most common and both of these are available as inputs on my Lumagen ProHDP scaler (using a scart to 3/4 bnc cable). In Sneals2000's post he mentioned that:
quote:
Sneals2000
Tivo uses standard SCART RGB - which is syncless RGB, with the syncs derived from the composite video output on the SCART. This means there is no dedicated syncs signal (so RGBs kit that requires clean syncs needs the composite video signal to be fed through an external sync separator).

RGB / Composite switching is signalled on pin 16 (Fast Blanking)



So I figure he was meaning RGBs (sync on composite) as there is no sync-less RGB (there always needs to be a sync of some kind), but if it is RGBs then surely the sync would be on pin 20 (composite sync)? Isn't pin 16 just a RGB mode select signal?

Sneals2000, could you please confirm for definite that the RGB output of Tivo is RGBs (sync on composite) and what pin the sync is on?

Or does anyone else know for certain what the RGB output is??

Please...:D

Cheers

Ryan :up:



Posted by: guydewdney

my nec plasma used the r G B and composite cables, thus defining that it must be RGBs - if the composite was disconnected it went mental....

QED make a nice one... 80 quid for a 5m one..



Posted by: rscott4563

quote:
Originally posted by guydewdney
my nec plasma used the r G B and composite cables, thus defining that it must be RGBs - if the composite was disconnected it went mental....

QED make a nice one... 80 quid for a 5m one..



I take it by this you mean that you had your Tivo connected to your nec plasma by a scart to 4 rca/bnc?

Is there anyway you could confirm the cable your using is connected to RGB and composite (pin 20) and hence RGBs, and not RGB and pin 16 as mentioned earlier??

Do you have the model no of the cable your using?

Cheers

Ryan :)



Posted by: Andy C

Hmm, the Zinwell looks ideal for giving the TiVo a boost on a Plasma screen. I'm guessing to use it you'd need also need the RGB -> Component converter and run them like so...

TiVo --> RGB to Component --> Zinwell --> Display/Amp

In my case I don't have an external AV amp as the plasma has 3 SCARTS and Component inputs so I'm not sure how I would go about this to carry the sound. Would the only way be to buy an amp also and have all input sources running through that using component out to the display?

Edit: Actually, I think I can co-use one of the SCARTS (AV4) to input sound for the component video - I must check the manual. I'm guessing the Zinwell wouldn't cause any video lag if the sound went from the RGB converter outputs direct to the display?


Andy.



Posted by: blindlemon

Just wondering if anybody has had the time to try this yet?

Might do away with the need for a RGB->Component converter...



Posted by: guydewdney

quote:
Originally posted by rscott4563
I take it by this you mean that you had your Tivo connected to your nec plasma by a scart to 4 rca/bnc?

yes...

Is there anyway you could confirm the cable your using is connected to RGB and composite (pin 20) and hence RGBs, and not RGB and pin 16 as mentioned earlier??

yes - is you use only the sync / composite on a comp input - you get a picture

Do you have the model no of the cable your using?

no - squart cable - cant be many of 'em

Cheers

Ryan :)





Posted by: Andy C

quote:
Do you have the model no of the cable your using?

no - squart cable - cant be many of 'em


Would that be one of these ?



Posted by: Andy C

Quick question... during the RGB -> Component or during any conversion process, do you loose the wide screen switching signals?



Posted by: guydewdney

yes.


and yes - wheres the scart pin for widescreen gone? unless the teletext line thing is still there (i dont have that ability on my steam powered NEC)



and the line change for getting tivo to directly output component has annoyed me - i brought that up years ago - i just got ignored (it can also output S-vid)



Posted by: blindlemon

quote:
Originally posted by guydewdney
the line change for getting tivo to directly output component has annoyed me - i brought that up years ago - i just got ignored (it can also output S-vid)
Have you tried it?



Posted by: guydewdney

no - i dont have the linux ability... have a card - but yet to install it.

anyone fancy a pint / barbie at mine in exchange for doing it for me? (really scared when i upgraded, let alone doing this...)



Posted by: Heuer

quote:
Originally posted by Andy C
Hmm, the Zinwell looks ideal for giving the TiVo a boost on a Plasma screen. I'm guessing to use it you'd need also need the RGB -> Component converter and run them like so...

TiVo --> RGB to Component --> Zinwell --> Display/Amp

In my case I don't have an external AV amp as the plasma has 3 SCARTS and Component inputs so I'm not sure how I would go about this to carry the sound. Would the only way be to buy an amp also and have all input sources running through that using component out to the display?

Edit: Actually, I think I can co-use one of the SCARTS (AV4) to input sound for the component video - I must check the manual. I'm guessing the Zinwell wouldn't cause any video lag if the sound went from the RGB converter outputs direct to the display?


Andy.



Correct about the need to convert from RGB to Component before going into the progressive scan box. You can take the audio straight out of the TiVo phonos to wherever you want to amplify the sound.

In theory any PS device may introduce lag between picture and sound as the first frame is stored, added to the second frame and then written progressively to the screen (all 576 lines, one after the other) so sound may get out of sync. The Arcam AV8 amp has independant control over sound lag to compensate for this on DVD and other sources. In practice I do not see/hear much lag and given that Sky frequently has sound out of sync as a standard feature it is not worth worrying about.

I have my AV8 set at -60ms sound lag to compensate for VBR/Mode 0 and PS but in practice the delay varies from channel to channel (Ch4 being worst around 13:00 for some reason).

David




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