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The Sopranos 5/23 - SPOILERS
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Posted by: farleyruskz

Wow. Something interesting finally happened this season.

Although I knew it was inevitable, they honestly had me wondering up until the last moment, when Silvio turned off into the woods. I'm sure she knew the truth the whole time.

It's just a shame that it took this long for things to pick up this season, and there's only one more episode left (and two weeks until it airs!).

Posted by: Turtleboy

They (the Family) are really stupid.

They didn't question her. They didn't find out who else is talking. They didn't find out what she told. They had an opportunity to get a wealth of information about what the FBI knows about them.

It's amazing that they worked that fast. They just instantly decided to kill her.

Posted by: gregpr

I agree, an amazingly quick decision.

I wonder what make Christopher decide? Was it seeing the couple seemingly on the run in the gas station?

Posted by: Turtleboy

quote:
Originally posted by gregpr
I agree, an amazingly quick decision.

I wonder what make Christopher decide? Was it seeing the couple seemingly on the run in the gas station?

If we went into the witness protection program, he would have had an ugly car, ugly clothes, buying food at a gas station, etc.

Posted by: Frank_M

Adrianna most likely couldn't have children, if you recall. So I think when Christopher was considering, however, briefly, turning fed... he then realized that if he stuck with Ad he couldn't even have kids... and that put him over the edge. That's how I saw that moment, anyway.

And other than Uncle Junior confusing himself and Bobby with Larry and Jeff from CYE, I thought Christopher quoting "Born to Run" as a traffic excuse was the laugh out loud funniest moment of the season.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I thought it was amusing watching Chrissie go from thinking life sucks to knowing what it's like when life REALLY sucks...

I also thought it was interesting that Chrissie was able to do the "right" thing (sacrifice somebody he loved for the greater good of the family), and Tony, in the exact same situation, wasn't (starting a war with New York, even though Tony B. was in the wrong and deserved what he was going to get).

Posted by: David Platt

quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
If we went into the witness protection program, he would have had an ugly car, ugly clothes, buying food at a gas station, etc.

And a mullet.

Posted by: daperlman

first of all, I know everyone always says this, but the next episode really looks good.

On Chris killing A, I thought that is what he was gonna do the second he put his hands around her throat. Then I knew it was coming when he insisted on leaving. I am guessing he assumed they'd both die otherwise.

On Tony deciding to tell John to stick it... remember he was prepared to sacrifice Tony B. had John simply made it quick and painless it would have been a done deal... it was only pride and perhaps Tony realizing he'd never get along with John, that lead to that decision.

Posted by: skanter

While things are certainly coming to a head for the final two weeks, it was MUCH too obvious that Adriana was gonna get whacked. No one at home believed the Chistopher suicide story, did they? And I don't think Adriana would have believed it either.

Posted by: barrettd

Good episode. Finally we got a resolution to one of the many storylines that's been flailing about.

BD

Posted by: marksman

quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
They (the Family) are really stupid.

They didn't question her. They didn't find out who else is talking. They didn't find out what she told. They had an opportunity to get a wealth of information about what the FBI knows about them.

It's amazing that they worked that fast. They just instantly decided to kill her.

Since the didn't show all of her conversation with Christopher, you are making some crazy assumptions. I would assume Christopher got the full scoop from her before he did anything.

She certainly wouldn't have been holding anything back at that point since she was trying to convince him to join her. It would have been pretty easy for him to have gotten the full extent of everything from her.

Posted by: dslunceford

Love how the threads start coming together and the story's finally pushed forward. Possibly one of the better episodes in the entire series run.

Posted by: jerobi

An episode like that almost makes me wish they had 5-episode seasons - slice out all the garbage and jam it into a few great hours of TV.

I'm enjoying all the different intereptations that everyone is having...they really left some things open to opinion in this one. The Adriana discussion seems well under way, but how about the way Tony left it with John? With Tony starting off the conversation asking if he could take of Tony B himself, it seems an open possibility that he could support OR eliminate Tony B at this point...

Posted by: zaknafein

Good episode, finally. Nothing more to add, but I'm thankful for some plot movement finally.

Posted by: iguru42

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
I also thought it was interesting that Chrissie was able to do the "right" thing (sacrifice somebody he loved for the greater good of the family), and Tony, in the exact same situation, wasn't (starting a war with New York, even though Tony B. was in the wrong and deserved what he was going to get).

Execpt that Tony was ready to sacrafice TB for the greater good, but he was unwilling to just lay down for Johnny. All he wanted was the consideration that TB be taken out quick, Johnny wouldn't comply so TS told him where to stick it.

[edit] Oops just read your comments Daplerman....

Posted by: FlugPoP

Great EP one of the best I think so far. Damn HBO making us wait 2 weeks

Posted by: mrpurple

quote:
Originally posted by FlugPoP
Great EP one of the best I think so far. Damn HBO making us wait 2 weeks

2 weeks? don't they know I'll be in Vegas in 2 weeks. I guess I'll have to leave the poker table long enough to watch this in my room. Don't want to wait to catch it on TiVo. That is if Paris hotel even has HBO.

Fantastic episode. I don't think Chris was going to kill her until he saw that family and thought "no f'in way."

Posted by: vickerto

Best line of the night:

Tony's mistress yelling at him in the burn ward.

"I'm going to kill myself!"

*phone rings *

"I gotta get this."

Posted by: Redleg

Fantastic episode. I like how they handled Ad's whacking, no BS'ing around. (To answer the question posed earlier, not only did the suicide story fool my wife, she though Christopher had helped her get away. Maybe she was dozing off. :) )

No discussion of Tony and Carm's reunion, which was also inevitable and handled pretty well. The first family dinner was very funny. Does anyone believe Tony's promise? Does Carm?

Can't wait for two weeks... this and Deadwood both are building up well.

Posted by: jeff125va

Also loved the scene between Tony & Valentina, and Christopher's Born to Run reference.

I don't buy that it was so "obvious" that Adrianna was going to get it when Christopher left. Christopher himself didn't even know that when he left. Maybe it was obvious the suicide story was fake, but Silvio's acting job was pretty good too, although the look on his face (when she was looking away) shortly before he turned off the road was priceless. In hindsight though, suicide didn't seem that plausible given that he had come within seconds of killing Adriana.

As far as Tony's promise, I thought his choice of words was very clever - something like his mid-life crisis activities wouldn't affect her. Can't remember the quote, but it wasn't "I'll never stray again." He may have said that in their hypothetical discussions, but his "official" promise at Vesuvio's was worded very carefully I thought. Given that what finally drove Carmela to kick him out was when his mistress called her, I sorta think that she doesn't expect him to be faithful, only that he won't let her find out.

Posted by: bdlucas

quote:
Originally posted by farleyruskz
I'm sure she knew the truth the whole time.

I don't know, I thought she looked pretty surprised when he stopped the car in the middle of the woods. I think she was really fooled.

Posted by: maineman

Great episode! I liked the way they handled Ad's whacking. It was sad and touching and brutal at the same time which is what this show does best. They left some doubt until the end but I knew when she call the agent and said Chris was going to flip that she was a goner.

The Tony and John thing has been going sour for a long time and now that John is boss and doesn't need Tony anymore he no longer sees their relationship as mutual beneficial. I thought that Tony might take out John last night too.

It has to be hard on Chris to see Tony risk so much to protect Tony B. when Tony was ready to whack him on a moments notice. And now with losing Ad this will set up a great story line for the last season.

Carm was downright giddy last night. Not sure if she believed Tony's promises but used the leverage to milk $600,000 out of him for that lot. I loved the dream episode (I'm in the minority) and thought that it was very interesting that upon hearing the news about Tony B. that when he picked up the phone at 5:30, we thought he was going to call Sil or Paulie to take care of the situation, but he calls Carm to talk about his dreams. I thought that it was interesting and touching that he turned to her at that moment.

I also loved the reaction on Tony's face during the first meeting with John upon hearing the "reign a **** storm upon your family" threat. He was cool as a cucumber and seemed to be searching for the best course of action instead of getting scared or angry. The acting on this show is just great.

Posted by: cpalma

Tony never promised fidelity to Carm. He said, "I promise that (it) won't ever come back to you" [or something to that affect.]

Any parents of teens here? Do you let your kids (at the dinner table, no less) swear like a truck driver? "This is ****ing weird."

I don't read spoilers, but there are things out there you can't help but hear. I really thought Adrianna (Drea) was gonna do both the Joey show and the Soprano's next year. (Who knows she still could.) Being as that was my thought, I did buy the Chris suicide attempt. Chris has been slipping (notice every time he was on camera in this ep. he had a drink in his hands?) back into addiction. Adrianna telling him this COULD have pushed him over the edge. Also Tony's convincing phone call and Silvio's chatter while driving. Of course, Adrianna knew what was what. She knew what was coming (as did my husband).

I think it was a good episode, leading up to a Mob War cliff hanger. I bet Tony S. is wishing he carried out that hit last year on Johnny!

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by maineman
Great episode! I liked the way they handled Ad's whacking. It was sad and touching and brutal at the same time which is what this show does best.

I agree. Out of the infinite camera angles they could have shown, they panned upward into the treetops. No blood, no gore, but vastly more emotional than the scene with the guy getting stabbed in Adriana's office.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by cpalma
Tony never promised fidelity to Carm. He said, "I promise that (it) won't ever come back to you" [or something to that affect.]

And it was pretty obvious to me that she was only pretending to be fooled.

She has decided that she just can't live without everything Tony gives her (wealth, status), and is willing to put up with everything else Tony gives her. And pretending to believe his Clintonesque non-promise allowed her to save face.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by cpalma
I really thought Adrianna (Drea) was gonna do both the Joey show and the Soprano's next year. (Who knows she still could.)

Two words: Dream Sequence. I'm sure Tony will dream plenty about Ade, since they sort-of had some kind of bond. And this will weigh on Christopher in the next season and affect his performance in the family.

Also, there's no way Ade knew what was coming until they pulled off the road. Otherwise, she wouldn't have gone with him - from her point of view, it was a totally believable story (the suicide), based on what Chris just learned.

Finally, at the last scene, when Tony and Carm are walking through the woods, when you just heard rustling of leaves (T&C walking around), did anyone else think that it just might have been Ade who was still alive crawling to find help? Now that would have been a great plot twist.

Perhaps she'll run into the Russian out there, and they'll join forces and off Christopher. ;)

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by henryhank
[B...]Also, there's no way Ade knew what was coming until they pulled off the road. Otherwise, she wouldn't have gone with him - from her point of view, it was a totally believable story (the suicide), based on what Chris just learned.

Finally, at the last scene, when Tony and Carm are walking through the woods, when you just heard rustling of leaves (T&C walking around), did anyone else think that it just might have been Ade who was still alive crawling to find help? Now that would have been a great plot twist.
...
[/B]

Right. I think she was scared when Christopher was going out to buy cigarettes, but given the options Christopher was facing, his unhappiness with his mafia "career" and his backsliding with substance abuse, the suicide attempt was pretty plausible from her point of view. Plus, the recent bonding between her and Tony gave her even more reason to believe him.

Yeah, that occurred to me for a second, but those guys know how to kill someone.

Posted by: pmyers

man....what a great episode!

I still wonder what Tony S is going to do with Tony B now.

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
man....what a great episode!

I still wonder what Tony S is going to do with Tony B now.

I'm not sure there's much he can do, Tony B. can't really come out of hiding. I do wonder though how Tony B. failed to kill both of the Leotardo brothers, it seemed like an easy shot in that flashback scene.

I hope they do one of those flashbacks next week (actually two weeks) to Christopher telling Tony about Adriana.

Posted by: dschwab

Regarding Tony's "promise" of fidelity to Carm, IIRC it was more of a promise to now screw around when they were speaking of the hypothetical situation, but when it came time to actually reunite, Tony did carefully choose his words. I think it was something along the lines of his mid-life crises wouldn't "impact" her.

Posted by: Figaro

Adrianna was as dumb as a bag of rocks but how could even she have believed that Christopher had enough time to drive upstate, attempt suicide, end up in the hospital, and contact Tony all in the short time that he had been gone?

As for Tony's promise? He merely said that it would no longer affect Carmen. To me that means he is swearing off of steady gumars and going to stick with ho's and hookers.

Posted by: Bradc314

So, who is the other FBI mole??? Did you catch the reference to CI 21 (or was it CI 12) confirming Chrissy's displeasure with Tony B?

Hmmmm.......

Posted by: Kylep

Great episode! I'll admit I didn't catch on until the first time they showed the trees as Adrianna was staring outside the window… I thought it was pretty well done, and I think Adrianna would believe them. You need to remember that a person will tend to believe what they want to believe, and nobody wants to believe the one they love would kill them, even with so much evidence.

What did everyone read into the last scene, where Tony sat down on the stump? I thought he was going to tell her he couldn't afford the land (gang war would cut into profits), but he might have just been upset about other things.

Posted by: dslunceford

quote:
Originally posted by Kylep
Great episode! I'll admit I didn't catch on until the first time they showed the trees as Adrianna was staring outside the window… I thought it was pretty well done, and I think Adrianna would believe them.

I'm pretty sure she knew and "played along" until the end. IIRC, there was part of the drive where it seemed she drifted off and imagined herself driving away with the suitcase in the back seat. You see a shot of her hands on the steering wheel (with funky nails) and then shot of red suitcase in the back seat/trunk and the music starts playing, then we cut back to "reality" and she's in the car with Syl.

Actually, I think it was the beginning of the scene, because at first I thought she had taken off on her own after the call from Tony because she knew what was up, then you see her "wake up" from that to be in the car with Syl.

Also, though Syl probably offed her outright, they didn't show it on screen, so theoretically he may have first incapacitated her (shot in legs, etc) and questioned her about what she gave the Feds prior to killing her. Though doubtful, it's a possibility.

Posted by: ChofuHS

quote:
Originally posted by cpalma
Any parents of teens here? Do you let your kids (at the dinner table, no less) swear like a truck driver? "This is ****ing weird."

I agree, in past episodes he would have been jumped. They were so stunned and the kid was just so right on, he got a pass and something to drink!

:up:

Posted by: ravonaf

quote:
Originally posted by Bradc314
So, who is the other FBI mole??? Did you catch the reference to CI 21 (or was it CI 12) confirming Chrissy's displeasure with Tony B?

Hmmmm.......

One of Tony's capos was flipped. I forget his name. He doesn't get much screen time.

When the body washed ashore my wife thought it was Big Pussy. That would have been ugly.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by dslunceford
I'm pretty sure she knew and "played along" until the end.

No way. She completely freaked out when she realized they weren't going to a hospital.

She's just a moron (surprise!).

Posted by: bigray327

So now the big question is: who's going to get whacked next? Somebody close to Tony, no doubt, as Johnny warned. I wonder if Phil will go after Chris or one of the other captains, or if he'll make it extra personal by killing Meadow, AJ, or <oooh, dare to dream> Carmella. Maybe they'll burn down Tony's house, a small message that they can get to his family, and completion of the tons of fire foreshadowing going on lately. Or they could kill the parking lot hummer guy, Finn, or Tony's ex-mistress; none of them is too important. Hopefully they won't get to Paulie or Sylvio; those guys rock. I still laugh when I think about that lawnmower scene with Paulie.

BTW, memo to HBO writers, if you could kill Carmella and have the bullet somehow go back in time and kill Jane on Deadwood, that would be super. Thanks.

Too bad Little Carmine caved. They did a good job portraying him as a pseudo-intellectual. "Stagmire?" Ha.

Posted by: Snappa77

quote:
Also, though Syl probably offed her outright, they didn't show it on screen, so theoretically he may have first incapacitated her (shot in legs, etc) and questioned her about what she gave the Feds prior to killing her. Though doubtful, it's a possibility.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but didn't Ad and Chris talk all night about the FBI? He probally got all the info from her then.

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by Snappa77
Someone correct me if I am wrong but didn't Ad and Chris talk all night about the FBI? He probally got all the info from her then.

that's what I assume as well. I'm sure he knows everything that she said.

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by dschwab
Regarding Tony's "promise" of fidelity to Carm, IIRC it was more of a promise to now screw around when they were speaking of the hypothetical situation, but when it came time to actually reunite, Tony did carefully choose his words. I think it was something along the lines of his mid-life crises wouldn't "impact" her.

Yeah, but it was also interesting how he referred to his "activities." The first time he brought it up, he said "I am what I am." Then he brought up her relationship with Furio as if she were equally to blame, then by the dinner he referred to it as a "mid-life crisis," as if adultery wasn't just a way of life for him.

I HIGHLY doubt Johnny or Phil would go after someone in Tony's personal family who wasn't also in his business family - hence the threat implied against Christopher, to even the score with the hit on Phil's brother (who was also in the mafia).

I just can't understand why anyone thinks Adriana knew they weren't going to the hospital. Why would she wait until they pulled into the woods before yelling "no no" and trying to get into the driver's seat to get away? If she really suspected Tony was lying to set her up, she would have known it right away when he called and she would have taken off. Once she believed him, she was too upset and worried about Christopher (and everything else) for it to even occur to her that it was a setup.

Posted by: Buzant

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bdlucas
[B]I don't know, I thought she looked pretty surprised when he stopped the car in the middle of the woods. I think she was really fooled.

I suspected something was up when Syl made no mention of or any questions about all the bruises on Ade's face and neck. It just seemd odd that there was no mention.

Posted by: FlugPoP

quote:
Originally posted by mrpurple
2 weeks? don't they know I'll be in Vegas in 2 weeks. I guess I'll have to leave the poker table long enough to watch this in my room. Don't want to wait to catch it on TiVo. That is if Paris hotel even has HBO.

Fantastic episode. I don't think Chris was going to kill her until he saw that family and thought "no f'in way."

I'm sure they will have HBO most Hotels do.

You better check to see which HBO feed it is East or West. You don't want to miss it because your waiting for it to come on at 9pm and it already came on at 6 :D

Posted by: daperlman

quote:
Originally posted by FlugPoP
I'm sure they will have HBO most Hotels do.

You better check to see which HBO feed it is East or West. You don't want to miss it because your waiting for it to come on at 9pm and it already came on at 6 :D

You know they make these machines called DVRs that you can program to tape your shows on a hard drive and replay them when ever you want, this way you don't have to worry about missing your favorite shows while you are away.

:)

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by Buzant
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bdlucas
[B]I don't know, I thought she looked pretty surprised when he stopped the car in the middle of the woods. I think she was really fooled.

I suspected something was up when Syl made no mention of or any questions about all the bruises on Ade's face and neck. It just seemd odd that there was no mention.

Really? Not that they're all wife-beaters, but the guys on this show never really struck me as the type to question how another guy "handles" his women. If Sil had no clue about her informing, my guess is he would have thought she looked at Christopher the wrong way, and figured that it was justification to strangle her within inches of her life.

Posted by: Highspeedhomer

I thought Christopher was ready to talk to the F.B.I and move away and then he went to the gas station and saw the couple with with the kids and every thing they owned in the station wagon and was like " Man that could be me and Ad". Then he made the call to Tony and well we know what happens then

Posted by: Bradc314

quote:
Originally posted by Highspeedhomer
I thought Christopher was ready to talk to the F.B.I and move away and then he went to the gas station and saw the couple with with the kids and every thing they owned in the station wagon and was like " Man that could be me and Ad". Then he made the call to Tony and well we know what happens then

The other part of that scene that I like was how Chris was admiring his H2, and then saw the family (with the Mt. Dew product placement) and compared the lifestyles. Chris was not able to give up the luxurious lifestyle being a 'soldier' affords him.

Posted by: Roswell

I can't see them hitting anyone in Tony's family. Usually family members are off limits unless they are active participants in the business.

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by Bradc314
The other part of that scene that I like was how Chris was admiring his H2, and then saw the family (with the Mt. Dew product placement) and compared the lifestyles. Chris was not able to give up the luxurious lifestyle being a 'soldier' affords him.

I noticed the same thing, but there was some ambiguity there with his income having been cut back with the casino given to Tony B. and the cigarette running being split with Paulie. He could certainly have demanded an extremely good deal from the FBI for the kind of information he could have provided, and screenwriting could have been somewhat lucrative (although that raises anonymity issues, and obviously it's all moot anyway).

Posted by: jeffden

I agree with what someone posted above, loved the line when the mistress was yelling at Tony and he sweetly says, I gotta take this. Hilarious. Also, the Born to Run reference was laugh out loud funny. I also enjoyed the Heart song, Barracuda that was on the car radio, just as Syl stops the car and Adriana realizes. Quick snippet, but really effective.

Jeff

Posted by: pmyers

Could somebody explain the "Born to Run" reference to me?

Posted by: ruexp67

As to how Tony missed shooting Philly. I got the sense that he was aiming for Billy as a way to inflict MORE pain on Philly than killing him could. He seemed pretty well focused. He probably just winged Philly to incapacitate him.

Posted by: barrettd

quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
Could somebody explain the "Born to Run" reference to me?

Christopher was late to the meeting before the sit down, and Tony asked him why he was late. He said:

"The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive."

which is why Tony made a comment about him being a smartass or something to that effect. That's a line from Born to Run.

That was the gist of the scene, if not exactly.

BD

Posted by: Turtleboy

quote:
Originally posted by barrettd
Christopher was late to the meeting before the sit down, and Tony asked him why he was late. He said:

"The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive."

which is why Tony made a comment about him being a smartass or something to that effect. That's a line from Born to Run.

That was the gist of the scene, if not exactly.

BD

What made it funny was the fact that Steve Van Zant was sitting there too.

Posted by: Tivortex

I'm so glad I read this thread every week. I miss half the oblique references you all seem to see.

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by Tivortex
I'm so glad I read this thread every week. I miss half the oblique references you all seem to see.

amen to that!

Posted by: DeDondeEs

Wasn't there a fantasy scene where Adriana imagined she was driving south towards Delaware? I think that was the point when she realized she should have gotten out of dodge. She started crying because she realized this was the end of the road for her. I agree that Chris was thinking of turning to the FBI, but then looked at his Hummer and saw the family and realized what type of life he could end up with, and that was more important than his love. That would have been an interesting scene to show Chris telling Tony that she had been talking to the FBI. That first scene where Chris had a beer was suprising, I said "What's he doing?" right before Tony said a similar thing. The line by Tony. "I won't let my mid-life activities impede on you anymore" was classic as well.

Posted by: NinerK

quote:
Originally posted by maineman

It has to be hard on Chris to see Tony risk so much to protect Tony B. when Tony was ready to whack him on a moments notice. And now with losing Ad this will set up a great story line for the last season.

I respectfully disagree. Tony almost killing Chris was no whim. Chris went into the Bing like a cowboy with loaded gun in hand, calling out Tony saying he was gonna kill him.

While Tony B. has put the whole NJ crew in jepordy, TB never went after TS in the fashion that Chris did. Just my two cents though.

About Tony and Carm's "Deal"- As I recall, Tony said "My other activities that brought us to this point will no longer INTERFERE with your life."

The writers are brilliant. They show us these two people with all these problems that desprately need each other. At the same time they won't fully commit to the marriage (wedding vows). Just amazing.

The last scene with Johnny was priceless. Talk about getting revved up about a show. I wanted to call Tony up ..."Hey T, I'm with you. Let's get em'" And he was cool about it to. "Forget your Johnny, and Philly, and all of you. He's my cousin." I guess that's that.

Posted by: ChofuHS

First, I agree, this is a great thread and I read so much here that I miss in the first showing.

IMHO, Adriana, had no clue she was getting whacked. Hell, if they didn't whack her I was going to do it with my 30 second skip in subsequent episodes! lol remember, Adriana, is pretty stupid. She was manipulated so easily by the FBI, even after asking for a lawyer. Technically, the FBI broke the law by speaking to her and asking ANY questions after she invoked the Fifth. Dang, I didn't even think she was good looking, but I find stupidity unacctractive....well, I'll take stupid, as stupid does, but only for a few minutes, lol.

Great episode!

Posted by: barrettd

quote:
Originally posted by ChofuHS
Technically, the FBI broke the law by speaking to her and asking ANY questions after she invoked the Fifth.

I don't think so. When she asked for a lawyer, it seems the questioning stopped. She even made a remark about it when the agent came to get her out of the bathroom. The agent asks when she's coming out, and Adrian asked when she was getting her lawyer, as if to say, as soon as my lawyer gets here, I'll come out and we can talk. She also mentioned she'd been there something like 8 hours already.

She didn't invoke the 5th amendment. I believe the 6th amendment has to do with a right to counsel, not that she would have known that.

BD

Posted by: HowardTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by FlugPoP
I'm sure they will have HBO most Hotels do.

You better check to see which HBO feed it is East or West. You don't want to miss it because your waiting for it to come on at 9pm and it already came on at 6 :D

Not in Las Vegas...they don't want you to stay too long in your room there...they want you in the casinos, clubs, shows, etc...!

Posted by: henryhank

I also believe that she couldn't have invoked the 5th. IANAL, but I thought once you started talking, you couldn't arbitrarily decide when to stop under the 5th - it's like all or nothing. (and remember, I said, "I believe" this to be the case and IANAL, so please spare your flamage, thanks).

Posted by: barrettd

quote:
Originally posted by henryhank
I also believe that she couldn't have invoked the 5th. IANAL, but I thought once you started talking, you couldn't arbitrarily decide when to stop under the 5th - it's like all or nothing. (and remember, I said, "I believe" this to be the case and IANAL, so please spare your flamage, thanks).

I didn't think the 5th amendment would even be applicable here, as she wasn't testifying. Besides, if you are testifying, you can invoke the 5th on certain questions, and answer others. I believe each question is taken one at a time.

BD

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by barrettd
I didn't think the 5th amendment would even be applicable here, as she wasn't testifying. Besides, if you are testifying, you can invoke the 5th on certain questions, and answer others. I believe each question is taken one at a time.

BD

If you're testifying before Congress, it's an all or nothing thing (that's how they got some of the HUAC people). But you're absolutely right in that this is not a 5th Amendment issue.

Once they say "I want a lawyer," regardless of what they've said up to that point, they have to stop the questioning until a lawyer gets there. Sometimes they'll try to play cute games (like they did with Adrianna), but if they do, they run the risk of sinking their entire case. Fortunately for them, Adrianna is a complete idiot.

Posted by: gregpr

Anybody notice that Chris packed up all of Aide's stuff in one suitcase?

Come on, this is a woman who I've never seen wearing the same outfit twice...

Posted by: bdlucas

quote:
Originally posted by gregpr
Anybody notice that Chris packed up all of Aide's stuff in one suitcase?

Come on, this is a woman who I've never seen wearing the same outfit twice...

True, but I think the idea was to make it look like she had run away - that's why he parked her car at the airport in Long Term Parking (the title of the episode). If she was running away she might have left in a hurry and only packed one suitcase.

Posted by: bdlucas

quote:
Originally posted by DeDondeEs
Wasn't there a fantasy scene where Adriana imagined she was driving south towards Delaware?

To be exact, she was on I95 just north of Baltimore, where I95 intersects the Balitmore beltway (I695).

Posted by: etexlady

Whose body was found on the beach by the group of kids? I meant to go back and watch that part again but forgot and deleted the show. Who do y'all think is the other "family" member talking to the FBI?

Posted by: Turtleboy

The body was the guy killed by the Pakistani in the club. He had a stamp from the club on his hand, which led them to her.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by gregpr
Anybody notice that Chris packed up all of Aide's stuff in one suitcase?
Come on, this is a woman who I've never seen wearing the same outfit twice...

I'm sure the "story" is that she was running from the FBI, so grabbed only what was needed/necessary until she got to her "safe house" location. Don't forget, Chris will be questioned by the FBI about her dissapearance, and he'll just say "I came home, her bag and some clothes and her car were gone. Haven't seen or heard from her since". They'll find her car at the airport shortly thereafter. They won't really know if she fled or she's dead. But this time, I don't think she'll return as a talking fish.

Posted by: ChofuHS

I think I stand corrected, dammit! lol

The fifth was the right not to self incriminate. I thought that was the article that was used to ask for a lawyer. A ggogle search shows it is the 6th.

I do agree with the above that once she asked for a lawyer, the FBI's playing of games would have created real issues in a court. The FBI agent continued to try to get her to talk and take the deal. Close call.

About the flashback with "A" driving? I didn't get that part at all. At one point, Adriana was driving the car listening to a song. In the next scene she was the passenger with the same song playing. "A" had the bruises on her face and all? What did I miss there?

Also, the Chris comment about fallen heroes on the freeway..... I don't get it. Please help out yet another ignorant observer. Thanks.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by ChofuHS
About the flashback with "A" driving? I didn't get that part at all. At one point, Adriana was driving the car listening to a song. In the next scene she was the passenger with the same song playing. "A" had the bruises on her face and all? What did I miss there?

That was just A daydreaming about where she could have been at that moment - escaping everything by herself. But when the daydream stopped, she's in the car with Syl headed for you know what.

The "fallen heroes" reference can be found a dozen or so posts up. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...492#post1979492

It's a line from "Born to Run" by Bruce Springsteen, whose guitar player is Steve Van Zandt, who plays Sylvio. It's also appropriate since any self-respecting Jerseyite (like myself, Chrissy, Ade, and the rest) would know and use Bruce lyrics like that. For the few people who don't know, North/Central Jersey was Bruce's old "stomping ground".

Posted by: rimler

Right to counsel is in the sixth amendment. Generally, once someone invokes it, you need to have a lawyer with the arrestee for it to hold up for them to revoke it. Certainly since Ad never left the building, and the FBI basically approached her later to 'continue' the conversation, she still should have been afforded counsel.

Somebody help me out here....what is Tony B's reasoning for reaking so much havoc? Simply because he thought that Tony S wasn't cutting him in fast enough? He's gonna bring down his cuz......(not really, but it could go like that IRL).

Also, I thought it was really stupid for Tony to call AD with the suicide story. Why wouldn't he think the Fibbies have tapped her phone? He concocts a story that's easy enough to disprove, if you're the feds, then the witness disappears? If they find her body and have him on tape lying to get her on the road, he's got problems.

Posted by: bdlucas

quote:
Originally posted by rimler what is Tony B's reasoning for reaking so much havoc? Simply because he thought that Tony S wasn't cutting him in fast enough? [/B]

The first murder was for money, and yes, probably partly to get Tony S's attention. The second was for revenge - they had whacked his former cellmate and best friend from prison, in retribution for Tony B's first murder.

Posted by: rimler

quote:
Originally posted by bdlucas
The first murder was for money, and yes, probably partly to get Tony S's attention. The second was for revenge - they had whacked his former cellmate and best friend from prison, in retribution for Tony B's first murder.

Ah yes, thank you BD.

Posted by: Martha

I knew she was going to die as soon as he said, "I could write my memoirs." Um, yeah, and the mob would never figure out who you were....I think she knew too - that was the reason she had the vision of driving south. She didn't panic until Syl actually pulled her out of the car (denial?), but she knew. As soon as Chris left, I told dh, "She's dead," and he agreed. What a great episode finally.

Posted by: henryhank

quote:
Originally posted by rimler
Somebody help me out here....what is Tony B's reasoning for reaking so much havoc?

Let's see if I get this right. His old cell-mate Angelo Garepe ( Joe Santos or Dennis Becker from The Rockford Files) who is now part of the NY crew wanted Tony B to off Joey Peeps as retaliation for the killing of that woman who wouldn't pay up to carmine (I think). Tony B does it as a "free agent", much to the chagrin of Tony S. Johnny Sack doesn't like that at all, since that was his cousin. He tries to get Tony S to give him up. No go. So Johnny Sack orders Philly Leotardo to off Angelo. That riles up Tony B. to go after the Leotardo Brothers.

Make sense?

edit: god damn you guys type fast.

Posted by: henryhank

I think I found where Chris tells Tony about Ade and the FBI. Here's a photo from the HBO website - it's one of six photos from the episode that apparently didn't make the final cut:

http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/img/episode/season05/ep64_tony_christopher.jpg

They are clearly in the basement of Tony and Carm's house, which only happened late in the episode, and I can't think of any other time a scene like this would have taken place. I'd love to see what was actually filmed.

Posted by: cwoody222

Wow. Wow. What a great episode. Although I'm really sad to see Ade dead and even moreso sad that I hate Christopher so much now :(

I'm not one of those "advance the plots, darnit!" folks... I enjoy every episode. But this one was spectacular.

And just like earlier this season, I really feel bad for Carm, being "trapped" and all. Anyone else notice the shots when Tony returned were supposed to be very similar to Carm by the door after he moved out and the house was so empty. Great work.

Posted by: cwoody222

quote:
Originally posted by bigray327

BTW, memo to HBO writers, if you could kill Carmella and have the bullet somehow go back in time and kill Jane on Deadwood, that would be super. Thanks.

Never! Blaphemy! I love Jane! :)

Posted by: zaknafein

Hopefully it will make it to the DVD.

I think the episode worked better no knowing though.

Posted by: tem

Sopranos Cast Top 10 on Letterman: Top 10 Things You've Never Heard on the Sopranos

10. Uncle Junior -- "You Don't have the money ? That's cool !"
9. Janice - "Screw this home cooking. I'm going to the Olive Garden"
8. Syl - "In addition to the disposing of bodies, you'll also need to know Powerpoint and Excel"
7. AJ - "Hey, wasn't that the guy from Springsteen's E. Street Band ?"
6. Meadow - "I just hooked up an illegal cable box and now I'm getting free HBO"
5. Pauly - "Tony, I'm gonna need to leave early -- for Rosh Hoshonna"
4. Ade - "I want a bigger part ... what are you gonna do ? Kill my character ?"
3. Chrissy - "Hey Pauly, whatta you say me and you drive to Massachusetts and get married ?"
2. Carm - "I can't go to prison. Martha Stewart will eat me alive"
1. Tony - "I just whacked myself !"

Good deliveries by Uncle Junior, Pauly, Chrissy and Tony. Syl wasn't really in character. Naturally, AJ was the worst.

Posted by: jonblaze

quote:
Originally posted by rimler
Right to counsel is in the sixth amendment. Generally, once someone invokes it, you need to have a lawyer with the arrestee for it to hold up for them to revoke it. Certainly since Ad never left the building, and the FBI basically approached her later to 'continue' the conversation, she still should have been afforded counsel.

As someone who just finished a course in criminal procedure, I'll try to clear this up. The Sixth Amendment right to counsel attaches only after formal criminal proceedings are initiated against a defendant. Since the FBI had not yet indicted Adrianna, she had no Sixth Amendment right to an attorney.

The Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination is protected by a prophylactic set of warnings that must be given whenever law enforcement attempts a custodial interrogation. Many of us know these warnings as the so-called "Miranda" rights. Every time a person is taken into custody, she must be read her Miranda rights, and she must waive those rights for the police to continue the questioning. Once Adrianna unambiguously invoked her right to an attorney, she revoked her previous waiver and the feds had to cease the interrogation. They could not ask her any more questions outside the presence of her lawyer unless Adrianna herself initiated further communication. What the female FBI agent engaged in during the bathroom scene is what I'll call clever tactical conversation. She never asked a direct question or made statements that were likely to elicit an incriminating response from Adrianna. Because of this, Adrianna's Fifth Amendment rights were not violated either.

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by henryhank
Let's see if I get this right. His old cell-mate Angelo Garepe ( Joe Santos or Dennis Becker from The Rockford Files) who is now part of the NY crew wanted Tony B to off Joey Peeps as retaliation for the killing of that woman who wouldn't pay up to carmine (I think). Tony B does it as a "free agent", much to the chagrin of Tony S. Johnny Sack doesn't like that at all, since that was his cousin. He tries to get Tony S to give him up. No go. So Johnny Sack orders Philly Leotardo to off Angelo. That riles up Tony B. to go after the Leotardo Brothers.

Make sense?

edit: god damn you guys type fast.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Additionally, if I'm not mistaken, Angelo was an ally of Little Carmine Lupertazzi, who was competing (unsuccessfullly) with Johnny Sack for control of the New York family after (big) Carmine died without naming a successor. The woman you're referring to - Lorraine Calluzzo - was kicking up to Little Carmine, but Johnny wanted him to kick up to her (as part of his effort to wrest control). So Johnny Sack had the Leotardos and Johnny Peeps whack Lorraine. Ironically, it was Angelo who counseled little Carmine to restrain from retaliating for that hit, while Carmine's other guys hired Tony B. to take out Johnny Peeps. Although I guess the real motive was to hurt Tony B. so his closeness with Angelo made him the better target.

Posted by: iguru42

quote:
Originally posted by jonblaze
As someone who just finished a course in criminal procedure, I'll try to clear this up. The Sixth Amendment right to counsel attaches only after formal criminal proceedings are initiated against a defendant. Since the FBI had not yet indicted Adrianna, she had no Sixth Amendment right to an attorney.

Since there was no indictment, she was not under arrest, and if she wasn't under arrest she was free to leave at any time, correct?

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by jonblaze
As someone who just finished a course in criminal procedure, I'll try to clear this up. The Sixth Amendment right to counsel attaches only after formal criminal proceedings are initiated against a defendant. Since the FBI had not yet indicted Adrianna, she had no Sixth Amendment right to an attorney....

As someone who has watched a lot of police and lawyer shows on TV, I respectfully disagree. I'm pretty certain that if the police are questioning someone (certainly a suspect as Adriana was), he or she has the right to ask for an attorney at any time, and the police can no longer ask questions without the attorney present.

I'd also say the Miranda warnings apply to rights protected by the fifth and sixth amendments ("you have the right to remain silent, you have the right to an attorney").

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by iguru42
Since there was no indictment, she was not under arrest, and if she wasn't under arrest she was free to leave at any time, correct?

They didn't need an indictment to arrest her. They hadn't yet arrested her only because they were trying to work out a deal with her. They let her leave so she could talk to Christopher.

Posted by: henryhank

I think they did arrest her for that drug charge way back, which is how they got her to flip in the first place. At any time they could have just indicted her for that charge, but they were working out a deal instead. So, technically, I THINK she was under arrest the entire time.

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by henryhank
I think they did arrest her for that drug charge way back, which is how they got her to flip in the first place. At any time they could have just indicted her for that charge, but they were working out a deal instead. So, technically, I THINK she was under arrest the entire time.

Not sure if she was technically or not (the episode guide says "picked up") but the important thing is they could have arrested her at any time, they certainly had enough evidence on her to do so. They always had the threat of arrest dangling over her if she didn't cooperate.

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by henryhank
I think they did arrest her for that drug charge way back, which is how they got her to flip in the first place. At any time they could have just indicted her for that charge, but they were working out a deal instead. So, technically, I THINK she was under arrest the entire time.

And I remember thinking when that arrest happaned that you would think that the wives/GFs would have been warned that at some point you will be pinched and the Feds will try this and that, and you are to not say a word an immediately call "X" lawyer.

Posted by: henryhank

I'm just going by the fact that this week she told Christopher that she was "arrested". Who knows if it was for real or just what she called it. I guess it doesn't really matter.

Posted by: Frank_M

The fun thing from here on in... is that the typical television "safety protocols" (to steal a Star Trek holodeck term) are now off.

After the first season, we've just gotten the "villian of the season" who you knew would eventually not be with us... but now, with just the season finale and the 10-episode run next year... anyone can be killed at any time.

I'd say that it's guaranteed that Tony will survive at least until the series finale... but no one else is safe. That's really going to ramp up the tension.

I mean, if this NY-NJ war happened last season? You'd pretty much know that Syl, Christopher, Paulie, even Carmela would be safe. But not now.

It's going to be fun! Just hope the wait for the final season isn't too long.

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by Frank_M
It's going to be fun! Just hope the wait for the final season isn't too long.

They start filming NEXT March, IIRC.

Posted by: DeDondeEs

quote:
Originally posted by HowardTiVo
Not in Las Vegas...they don't want you to stay too long in your room there...they want you in the casinos, clubs, shows, etc...!

The organizers of the TivoCon should see if they can arrange a Sopranos season finalee viewing at one of the clubs or bars. They had ton's of viewing parties all over the city for Friends, so logistically it's possible. Sunday night tends to be a slower night, and if you do it early enough you could probably get some club or bar space relativley easily if not free.

Posted by: jonblaze

quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
As someone who has watched a lot of police and lawyer shows on TV, I respectfully disagree. I'm pretty certain that if the police are questioning someone (certainly a suspect as Adriana was), he or she has the right to ask for an attorney at any time, and the police can no longer ask questions without the attorney present.

I'd also say the Miranda warnings apply to rights protected by the fifth and sixth amendments ("you have the right to remain silent, you have the right to an attorney").

I was a little unclear. Adrianna certainly had a Fifth Amendment right to an attorney because she was under a custodial interrogation. She did not have a right to an attorney under the Sixth Amendment because she had not yet been indicted.

Here's the practical difference: If Adrianna had been indicted and had invoked her right to an attorney, then the feds couldn't question her anywhere at anytime because the Sixth Amendment right to an attorney applies regardless of whether you are in custody or in your own home. But because she wasn't indicted, when the agents attempted to question her at the field office (i.e., in custody), she only had a Fifth Amendment right to an attorney which ceased once she was released from custody.

Posted by: Marco

Jonblaze, you get an A in Crim Pro. :up: Nicely summarized.
So the question here becomes, was Ade in custody? This has been a heavily litigated question. The courts have decided that it's a custody situation if a reasonable person would believe they were not free to leave.

My impression of the FBI office is that they would not have let Adriana just leave. At minimum, she had the threat of arrest hanging over her if she stopped cooperating.

Posted by: henryhank

Could they have LEGALLY said "You're free to go, but if you do, we'll arrest you for that drug charge and turn you over to the Long Branch PD for that murder evidence rap."

Posted by: rseligman

quote:
Originally posted by Martha
I knew she was going to die as soon as he said, "I could write my memoirs." Um, yeah, and the mob would never figure out who you were....

Henry Hill seems to have done well in that situation. He's the former wiseguy who flipped and later wrote the book that Goodfellas is based on. You can often hear him on talk shows, too.

Posted by: mmcmurr

quote:
Originally posted by Bradc314
So, who is the other FBI mole??? Did you catch the reference to CI 21 (or was it CI 12) confirming Chrissy's displeasure with Tony B?

Hmmmm.......

I believe you're all thinking about Pastie Parisi (sp?). If you'll remember, he's the guy that pissed in TS' pool when he was thinking about clipping Tony. Either just before, or just after he turned.

Posted by: TonyD79

quote:
Originally posted by tem
Sopranos Cast Top 10 on Letterman: Top 10 Things You've Never Heard on the Sopranos

Maybe the best Top Ten top to bottom in a long, long, long time.

I laughed the hardest at Paully's line.

Posted by: Mike20878

quote:
Originally posted by tem
Sopranos Cast Top 10 on Letterman: Top 10 Things You've Never Heard on the Sopranos

10. Uncle Junior -- "You Don't have the money ? That's cool !"
9. Janice - "Screw this home cooking. I'm going to the Olive Garden"
8. Syl - "In addition to the disposing of bodies, you'll also need to know Powerpoint and Excel"
7. AJ - "Hey, wasn't that the guy from Springsteen's E. Street Band ?"
6. Meadow - "I just hooked up an illegal cable box and now I'm getting free HBO"
5. Pauly - "Tony, I'm gonna need to leave early -- for Rosh Hoshonna"
4. Ade - "I want a bigger part ... what are you gonna do ? Kill my character ?"
3. Chrissy - "Hey Pauly, whatta you say me and you drive to Massachusetts and get married ?"
2. Carm - "I can't go to prison. Martha Stewart will eat me alive"
1. Tony - "I just whacked myself !"

Good deliveries by Uncle Junior, Pauly, Chrissy and Tony. Syl wasn't really in character. Naturally, AJ was the worst.

Damn, I forgot to record this!

Posted by: rseligman

quote:
Originally posted by Bradc314
So, who is the other FBI mole??? Did you catch the reference to CI 21 (or was it CI 12) confirming Chrissy's displeasure with Tony B?

Here's an article that mentions "the identity of the (rumored) second confidential informant (Tony B, Meadow's fiance)".

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gos...3p-169778c.html

Posted by: FlugPoP

Yah me too. If you missed it like me it on this page.

Real Player required.

Posted by: BryanRDC

quote:
Originally posted by FlugPoP
Yah me too. If you missed it like me it on this page.

Real Player required.

Thanks for the link. Jamie Lynn is lookin' HOT!

Posted by: barrettd

quote:
Originally posted by FlugPoP
Yah me too. If you missed it like me it on this page.

Real Player required.

Thank you for the link. Gandolfini was my favorite. Him and Tony (Paulie).

BD

Posted by: mykittykat88

quote:
Originally posted by Bradc314
The other part of that scene that I like was how Chris was admiring his H2, and then saw the family (with the Mt. Dew product placement) and compared the lifestyles. Chris was not able to give up the luxurious lifestyle being a 'soldier' affords him.

That was my thought exactly...he touched his vehicle lovingly, as he witnessed the life he might have if they had gone into the Witness Protection Program.

Also, Ade was simply sobbing at the beginning of the ride to the woods, but, I'm thinking she started to process the trip, and her crying became more intense...I think that's when she knew what her fate would be.

Also, was Ade's medical problem introduced so it would be logical that she would spend time in the ladies' room?

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by mykittykat88
That was my thought exactly...he touched his vehicle lovingly, as he witnessed the life he might have if they had gone into the Witness Protection Program.

Also, Ade was simply sobbing at the beginning of the ride to the woods, but, I'm thinking she started to process the trip, and her crying became more intense...I think that's when she knew what her fate would be.

Also, was Ade's medical problem introduced so it would be logical that she would spend time in the ladies' room?

Well, there was more to it than that. It added a lot to her struggle with being an informant. It made her want to end it even more, one way or the other - either find a way out of it, or find a way to talk Christopher into going into the program.

Posted by: pmyers

quote:
Originally posted by barrettd
Thank you for the link. Gandolfini was my favorite. Him and Tony (Paulie).

BD

Wow...Eddy (spelling?) really cut off all her hair!

Posted by: ced6

How did you guys open the link to the Sopranos Top 10? Everyone time I click on the video link, it tells me that I have to download a plug-in. When I go to check it out, it takes me to the Real Player page (I have the free version already) and says I have to give them my credit card in order to get a 14-day demo of the extra fancy Real Player. How did you guys get it to play? Any tricks?

Posted by: pmyers

it just came up normal for me. I clicked on the 3rd link down.

Posted by: FlugPoP

quote:
Originally posted by ced6
How did you guys open the link to the Sopranos Top 10? Everyone time I click on the video link, it tells me that I have to download a plug-in. When I go to check it out, it takes me to the Real Player page (I have the free version already) and says I have to give them my credit card in order to get a 14-day demo of the extra fancy Real Player. How did you guys get it to play? Any tricks?

Just get the "FREE Player"

Or download Real Plyer lite.

Posted by: Graymalkin

I absolutely refuse to install RealPlayer. Fortunately, I did record that Top 10 at home. Just haven't gotten around to it.

Posted by: Redleg

quote:
Originally posted by Graymalkin
I absolutely refuse to install RealPlayer. Fortunately, I did record that Top 10 at home. Just haven't gotten around to it.

RealPlayer sucks. Fortunately there is Real Alternative.

Posted by: FlugPoP

Yah totaly agree with both of you. Real Alternative is what I have... No flashing F'n Icon everytime you start your computer

Posted by: midas

I just rewatched the episode. I normally don't, but something about it bothered me and I just couldn't put my finger on it the first time. It just doesn't make sense.

I can understand the feds agreeing to offer Chris immunity. But there's just no way they'd let Ade out to talk to him about it for exactly the reason of what transpired.

If they were going to offer Chris a deal, they would just go out and pick him up. After they get him back to the station they spring her on him and break the news that she's been cooperating. At that point, even if he spurns the offer, she is protected. They've still got her on accessory to murder and drug charges. She still has enough info on Chris to probably get him put away. Even if he doesn't flip right there, he may flip after she's talked. Or maybe they get her to talk before they agree to bring him in so they have enough leverage.

No matter what, they don't send her out to approach Chris about it at home. I was actually shocked that he didn't kill her right then and there.

Anyway, great episode, but not very realistic.

Posted by: henryhank

She had the option of wearing a wire - she turned it down, and I think they said something not offering her protection or immunity unless she did. She didn't, so the let her go to try to get Chris to flip. But I do agree that was a strategic mistake - either in "real life" or by the writers.

Posted by: jeff125va

Exactly, they needed some leverage to get her wired, and she turned it down.

And they DIDN'T really have anything on Christopher, certainly nothing that would have been worth exposing their whole undercover operation. They wanted to get the big guys on big charges. Anything they could have put Christopher away for, he was prepared to do the time for as part of the life he chose, and the FBI would have had to start all over.

I do think they should have at least anticipated his reaction (either the strangling or the actual killing) and kept an eye on her. That way they really WOULD have had something on him.

Posted by: Graymalkin

Thanks for the tip on RealAlternative! Works like a charm.

What's with Edie Falco's butch cut?

Edited to add: All of a sudden my Firefox started flaking out. I had to uninstall RealAlternative to get it to work again. Bummer.

Posted by: midas

quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
And they DIDN'T really have anything on Christopher, certainly nothing that would have been worth exposing their whole undercover operation. They wanted to get the big guys on big charges. Anything they could have put Christopher away for, he was prepared to do the time for as part of the life he chose, and the FBI would have had to start all over.

But that's the point isnt it? If they get Chris to flip, they have enough to bring them all down. Whether he's actually flip or not is irrelevant. We, as viewers, know him better than the feds to.

Anyway, if they bring him in to propose the deal it doesn't expose their operation any more or any less than sending her home to try to get him to go along. It's still blown at this point.

If they had kept her in custody, she could have at least made a deal to tell what she did know and maybe something would have come out of it. But now they'll get no more information out of her. As it is, the FBI is still starting over. The odds of it going well for them were much better keeping her in custody and bringing Chris in.

Posted by: jeff125va

quote:
Originally posted by midas
But that's the point isnt it? If they get Chris to flip, they have enough to bring them all down. Whether he's actually flip or not is irrelevant. We, as viewers, know him better than the feds to.

Anyway, if they bring him in to propose the deal it doesn't expose their operation any more or any less than sending her home to try to get him to go along. It's still blown at this point.

If they had kept her in custody, she could have at least made a deal to tell what she did know and maybe something would have come out of it. But now they'll get no more information out of her. As it is, the FBI is still starting over. The odds of it going well for them were much better keeping her in custody and bringing Chris in.

But they didn't have enough on Chris to get him to flip, which is why they wanted Adrianna to wear a wire. And they needed some incentive for her to wear one, which was protection. She turned it down. The only way she was going to agree to accept protection from them was if Christopher went with her, and she thought she could convince him because of their future together as well as his disgruntlement with Tony et. al.

True that they were just as exposed, but they simply had nothing to bring him in on, and they would have had to offer Adrianna protection before doing so in case he turned them down and wanted to kill her later. Since she didn't agree to wear a wire for them, they had no obligation to protect her from the same result from her going to him herself.

Look, I'm not saying they didn't screw up, I'm just making sense of how it all happened.

Posted by: midas

quote:
Originally posted by jeff125va
Look, I'm not saying they didn't screw up, I'm just making sense of how it all happened.

Well let's not forget that what makes sense doesn't always make for get TV.

Posted by: ruexp67

I can't believe in 7 pages no one mentioned the implied terrorist threat from this ep.

When Aid is describing the drug dealer, she said that he sends most of his money back "home" (the middle east "Somewhere") where his brother runs a school for children. The Fibbies seem to roll their eyes at this and let it go (in front of Aid.) Seemed to me that they felt the "school" was a terorrist training camp.

Posted by: BryanRDC

quote:
Originally posted by ruexp67
I can't believe in 7 pages no one mentioned the implied terrorist threat from this ep.

When Aid is describing the drug dealer, she said that he sends most of his money back "home" (the middle east "Somewhere") where his brother runs a school for children. The Fibbies seem to roll their eyes at this and let it go (in front of Aid.) Seemed to me that they felt the "school" was a terorrist training camp.

Oh yeah -- I said to my wife as Ade said that line, "Madrasas." Definitely the sort of thing that might get an FBI agent to prick up his/her ears.

Posted by: midas

And they did use the terrorist thing at the end when the head FBI guy told the other guy to take the case from the Long Branch cops because of the terrorist thing.

Posted by: rseligman

I assumed the FBI didn't care what happened to Ade. All they wanted was Chris. So they send her home to try to flip him, and if he winds up killing her, so what? Putting her away for the stabbing is no big victory for them. I think it just came down to a strategic decision about how best to get Chris. Bring him in, or let Ade try on her own. They only cared about the end result. Ade was expendable.

Posted by: JoeTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by FlugPoP
Yah totaly agree with both of you. Real Alternative is what I have... No flashing F'n Icon everytime you start your computer

I don't like Real Player any more than the next guy, but what you mention can be eliminated in the preferences.

Posted by: dmdeane

quote:
Originally posted by ruexp67
I can't believe in 7 pages no one mentioned the implied terrorist threat from this ep.

When Aid is describing the drug dealer, she said that he sends most of his money back "home" (the middle east "Somewhere") where his brother runs a school for children. The Fibbies seem to roll their eyes at this and let it go (in front of Aid.) Seemed to me that they felt the "school" was a terorrist training camp.

I think that was to help emphasize how clueless she is. They were practically rubbing it in her face and she did not have a clue.

Ad's far too stupid to have known she was being set up for a whacking. They played her perfectly so she wouldn't realize until too late what was going down. Just because it was obvious to the audience does not make it obvious to her.

She was way, way out of depth. I did feel sorry for her, unlike most of the characters on The Sopranos who have been whacked in the past. She didn't have any business being involved in that stuff. Everyone was using her - the mafia, the feds, everyone.

NB: most of the ecstasy smuggling is out of Israel, not Pakistan. They probably made him into a Moslem just to put in the "terrorism" angle I assume.

Posted by: dmdeane

What was up with Toblerone reference between Tony and Christopher?

As to Tony's non-promise "promise" maybe he is thinking, after his breakup with his latest psycho girlfriend, and the hookup with the asian call girl in the hotel, that maybe there's something to be said for simple prostitution after all: he pays his money and that's that. No intrusive phone calls to his wife, no objects being thrown at him, or threats of suicide, etc.

Knowing Tony though, he's far too attacted to the psycho women to stay away from them for long.

Posted by: marksman

quote:
Originally posted by midas
[B]
I can understand the feds agreeing to offer Chris immunity. But there's just no way they'd let Ade out to talk to him about it for exactly the reason of what transpired.

Actually it does make sense. She said the only way she could get him to do it is if she could go out and talk to him. She knew he wouldn't come in if she had a wire, and he would know.

Arresting her was a hollow threat and a last resort. Their goal has ALWAYS been to get Tony. So she is fairly worthless. They had to get Christopher. Bringing Christopher in would have been worthless and they knew it. He would have NEVER turned under the circumstances they had. They needed her to try and bring him in. It was a gamble.

And they told her point blank they could offer her no protection if that is what she wanted to do. If they brought him in and sprung it on them two things would have happened. Christopher would have never said anything, and she would have eventually been killed. Since the goal was to get Tony, this would have just been a a waste of time.

What they did was a calculated risk, but was really the only chance they had given the circumstances.

Posted by: e30mpwrd

I'm very late to this thread having just watched the ep, but wanted to make a couple comments. I think Ade did know deep down she was done even if she didn't know she was about to be killed--after all she was violating her agreement with the Feds and would be arrested if she didn't get whacked. She had the fantasy of escaping on her own because she realized the end was near.

As they drove, the fact that there was no way out became clearer and clearer to her; her situation in her mind was impossible. The feds would get her if Tony's crew didn't. Did she know the Chris thing was a ruse? I guess not (as many of you have pointed out, she's not the brightest), but I still think at some level she was aware of the possibility. She'd known her situation was already impossible for a year, and just when she had a twinkle of hope, it became ever more impossible. She's never have been brave enough to run on her own, but obviously she was aware enough to at least have had the fantasy of doing so.

As for the Feds, I was under the impression that the final scene with the blond agent and her boss was essentially him rebuking her for getting Ade killed. She was still clinging to the possibility that Ade had run for it, but her boss knew that she was dead, and he seemed to me to be saying that they did in fact act improperly and thereby caused her untimely end.