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Alright, maybe I'll try Buffy....
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Posted by: Big_Daddy

So now that we're in the middle of the summer TV doldrums - I mean, Amazing Race is only on one night a week, right? - I'm toying with the idea of renting Buffy DVD's. I've never watched an episode, but based on others' fanaticism about the show it sounds like something I'd enjoy.

If I can get past my wife's mocking me for watching something with "Buffy" in the title, that is.

Anyway, I'd like some advice on which season to start with. I've read that season 1 - like most season 1's - was fairly uneven even if it did introduce the characters. For example, this was true with one of my favorites, Farscape - I came in on season 3 and loved it. When I caught up with season 1, the eps were not as good as season 3, but because I loved the show I enjoyed those episodes.

I TiVo'd the latest episode on FX ("Villains" - 2002 i think) and quickly realized it was NOT the best place to start. Probably spoiled a whole lot for myself, but what can you do...

Given this, where would be the best place to start?

Posted by: zaknafein

Start with 1. True, it isn't the strongest, but it establishes a lot of back story that is vital towards understanding the rest of the series.

Enjoy.

Posted by: bonscott87

And have your wife watch it too. My wife *loves* Buffy. We'll get the DVD's once all seasons are available.

And definately start with season 1, episode 1 and watch in order. While many Buffy episodes can be enjoyed on their own, you will enjoy them much better seeing them in order and see the various back stories and arc develop. It's also hysterical when the characters make reference to past funny stuff, even 2 seasons previous.

Posted by: porges

Also, Season 1, while a little patchy, makes up for it by being short (12 eps). Once you hit S2 it's pretty consistent.

Posted by: AJRitz

I'll pile on and agree that it's best to start with Season 1. I just started watching Buffy this year, and I've already watched the entire run of the series (and I've rewatched all of seasons 1 and 7 - why I picked those seasons is sort of a long story that's not really worth going into here). I'm currently re-working my way through Season 5, which is a favorite of mine.

What I love so much about this series is that there are always two arcs going on. One is the story arc for the current season. Each episode builds the narrative. The second arc is a larger series arc that ties the current season to past seasons and builds for future seasons. One of my favorite things about re-watching Buffy is picking up things from earlier seasons that just sort of blew past me, but mean much more having seen what's coming later (sometimes even several years later).

P.S. Despite my best efforts, I still can't get my wife to watch Buffy with me - and I've become a total Buffy junkie.

Posted by: SparkleMotion

Great show...not quite perfect, but you can SEE perfect from there! :) :up:

Posted by: rtype

Congrats on not being such a pu...pu... pushover that you can watch a show despite your old lady's disapproval. :)

Posted by: Skittles

Yet another vote for Season 1, only because there are indeed some great moments, and because several of the plot points established in Season 1 are used, re-used, and referenced later in the show. In fact, one of the characters seen only in the pilot becomes a semi-regular on Angel (if you decide to pick that up).

If you're planning to watch from Season 1's beginning via the reruns, then FX should be cycling back to Season 1 in the next two weeks IIRC. Just keep an eye out for the "Welcome to the Hellmouth" episode, which should start your viewing cycle.

Posted by: Big_Daddy

quote:
Originally posted by Skittles

If you're planning to watch from Season 1's beginning via the reruns, then FX should be cycling back to Season 1 in the next two weeks IIRC. Just keep an eye out for the "Welcome to the Hellmouth" episode, which should start your viewing cycle.

Excellent! Thanks for everyone's input. I was wondering if this is the case as the current FX cycle is the 2002/2003 season. I may be a tad cheap and take this approach until I see if it grabs me.

My wife enjoys genre shows - not as much as me, but does enjoy them. She's just not a fan of "teenage angst" shows, and so doesn't share my fascination with Smallville, for example. Not sure I can convince her to get into Buffy despite the fact my sister raved about it for years.

Posted by: AJRitz

quote:
Originally posted by rtype
Congrats on not being such a pu...pu... pushover that you can watch a show despite your old lady's disapproval. :)

Eh - it's not so much that she disapproves of the show, she's just not interested enough to get into another series. I watch a LOT more TV than she does. I did get her to watch a couple of Buffy episodes with me, but it didn't really grab her and after the last one I promised not to push her about it anymore. The only things she really watches anymore are NYPD Blue, West Wing, Alias, Crossing Jordan, and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. We even dumped our SP for Trading Spaces, which we used to watch religiously.

Posted by: rtype

quote:
Originally posted by AJRitz
Eh - it's not so much that she disapproves of the show, she's just not interested enough to get into another series. I watch a LOT more TV than she does. I did get her to watch a couple of Buffy episodes with me, but it didn't really grab her and after the last one I promised not to push her about it anymore. The only things she really watches anymore are NYPD Blue, West Wing, Alias, Crossing Jordan, and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. We even dumped our SP for Trading Spaces, which we used to watch religiously.

Um, my comment was toward the thread originator...

Posted by: Big_Daddy

quote:
Originally posted by rtype
Um, my comment was toward the thread originator...

And that makes it okay? :(

Posted by: rtype

quote:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy
And that makes it okay? :(

Hey, I said congrats--what do you want, a medal?

Posted by: mask2343

Don't do it!

Posted by: brahman71

Well, to go against everyone else, I usually recommend the middle of season 2 as the best place to start. There is very little backstory that you missed, you can be brought up to speed quickly, and the writing *really* starts taking off there.

While watching season 1 is fine, I have to be honest, If I started there I am not sure I would have continued with it. Its not bad, but it is really not indicative (imo) of just how good the show is going to get. Its a very average show until around the middle of season 2 (there are occasional hints at how good it can become, but there are a lot of "Why does everyone think this show is so great?" moments.)

If you are on the fence about sticking with the show, I would hate to see you miss out on a great show by using Season one as a sample.

In fact, now that I think about, I just can't allow you to start at season 1 unless you sign a two season contract. :)

Posted by: David Platt

quote:
Originally posted by Skittles
In fact, one of the characters seen only in the pilot becomes a semi-regular on Angel (if you decide to pick that up).

Okay, for the life of me, I'm having a hard time figuring out who youre referring to. Take away my Buffy Fan Club card now.

The only person I can think of is

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Darla

but she wasn't in more than just the pilot of Buffy?

Posted by: Skittles

quote:
Originally posted by David Platt
The only person I can think of is

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Darla

but she wasn't in more than just the pilot of Buffy?

You're right, on both counts.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I could have sworn Darla got staked in the 2 hour pilot episode, but after looking on IMDB, I was wrong. She gets staked later in Season 1, in "Angel"... and then has a flashback appearance in the first hour of the second season finale. Looks like it's my card that should be revoked. :)

Posted by: DreadPirateRob

quote:
Originally posted by David Platt
Okay, for the life of me, I'm having a hard time figuring out who youre referring to. Take away my Buffy Fan Club card now.

The only person I can think of is

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Darla

but she wasn't in more than just the pilot of Buffy?

Whew - I thought it was just me. I don't have to give up my card either. Yay!

As for where to start - the purist in me says start at S1 and go through it that way. It's the only way to experience the joy that is being a part of the Buffyverse. However, my stance on that may be altered somewhat by my experience with my best friend. We have remarkably similar interests and tastes - both geeky and otherwise - with one glaring exception: Buffy. I know it's a show he would absolutely dig if he ever got into it, and so I persuaded him to watch my S1 DVDs - after all, it's only 12 eps so it's not that big a commitment. But he is having the hardest time getting through them, and doesn't seem that excited about it. So, maybe S2 is a better starting point.

Or, maybe my friend just isn't as cool as I thought...

Posted by: jwjody

I'd start with season one. The writing does get better into S2, but S1 is still enjoyable to watch.

J

Posted by: gerbil42

I got sucked into it by a friend that said it was all about the writing.

He was right, the writing from all parties involved was completely top-notch.
I was watching the special features on the S6 final dvd last night, and it was more evident than ever that when it comes to writing a good metaphor for anything you can imagine, Joss Whedon is a master, as are most of his writing team for that show and Angel.

If you decide to skip Season 1 (I don't reccomend it), start with Season 2, Episode 3 "School Hard", the introduction of Spike to the Buffyverse. You won't be disappointed.

Posted by: rtype

I have only made it to Season 4 of Buffy and Season 1 of Angel, but so far I'm finding the dialog to be a lot better in Angel.

Posted by: John Kador

I have to disagree with most here in that I really LIKED season 1. There are some really good episodes in season 1, namely "Angel", "The Pack" and "Prophecy Girl". But then, I've been a fan since the first broadcast and watching the show THEN was a different experience than it is watching it now, knowing all that comes later. Believe it or not, before the episode "Angel", a lot of people had no idea about Angel's true nature.

Posted by: Turtleboy

Let's start at the very beginning
A very good place to start
When you read you begin with

A-B-C
When you sing you begin with do-re-mi

Posted by: AJRitz

quote:
Originally posted by Skittles
You're right, on both counts.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I could have sworn Darla got staked in the 2 hour pilot episode, but after looking on IMDB, I was wrong. She gets staked later in Season 1, in "Angel"... and then has a flashback appearance in the first hour of the second season finale. Looks like it's my card that should be revoked. :)

Skittles, I think your problem is that you're TOO MUCH of a fan.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
The original script DID have Darla getting killed in the pilot. But they liked Julie Benz too much to get rid of her that quickly. So instead, she just got burned pretty badly by some holy water and ran off.

Posted by: Maui

Start with season 1.

While Agree that the show really hit it's stride in the middle of season 2 I think that if you do get hooked you will regret having to watch season 1 out of sequence.

Posted by: jschuur

quote:
Originally posted by mask2343
Don't do it!

Unless of course you want the pain and the hurting and the curling up into a bawl and crying and not caring if the world sees you when it ends and there's no more episodes, then sure... have at it!

Posted by: MikeekiM

quote:
Originally posted by Skittles
If you're planning to watch from Season 1's beginning via the reruns, then FX should be cycling back to Season 1 in the next two weeks IIRC.

This is what I did... I have gotten through the first three seasons and have a backlog of episodes on my TiVo...

I always find myself regretting the purchase of entire seasons because as much as I THINK I will watch them over again...I don't typically go back to them...

The FX reruns have worked well for me... I have missed a few episodes for some reason (I think three all together...). So it is good that they are recycling back to the Hellmouth episode... Hopefully I can catch the ones I missed...

Posted by: Robin

I too must quote The Sound of Music. If it doesn't grab you you can always jump ahead to s2, but I bet it will.

And may I just say how jealous I am? There's nothing better than having all that jossy goodness stretched out in front of you!

Posted by: ThreeSoFar

Definitely start at season 1.

You will love it. It is the perfect show. Closest there's ever been, anyway. And The Musical is the best episode of any show ever done. And I/we watch a lot of TV, and none of this reality crapola that's been on lately (WUWT, anyway? God that crap sucks.)

Friend of ours doesn't watch much TV, and is buying these and watching them, finally, on our say so. He loves them so far. Just started season 2.

His letters to us are full of neat insight to the show (Willow is hot--they need to play that up more). It's great being able to live through the first time through with him.

Posted by: ccwf

quote:
Originally posted by ThreeSoFar
Willow is hot--they need to play that up more

Willow: Bored now. [�]
Cordelia: What's up with you two and the leather?

Posted by: gerbil42

Willow was/is my favorite character. Loved the cross-over episodes into Angel that I've seen. Haven't seen them all, yet, but I can't wait.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Hate Joss so much for killing Tara.

Posted by: AJRitz

quote:
Originally posted by gerbil42
Willow was/is my favorite character. Loved the cross-over episodes into Angel that I've seen. Haven't seen them all, yet, but I can't wait.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Hate Joss so much for killing Tara.

I just re-watched "The Body" last night.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I didn't remember at the time that Tara was killed just how much this episode foreshadow's Willow's extreme difficulty at dealing with death. And if Tara hadn't been killed, Willow would never have found her ability to "borrow" power from others - which was critical in the final battle when she borrowed the power of the Slayers' Scythe.

Posted by: cheesesteak

Start with season 1 although there are only three important episodes that year. The first one (actually, the first two), the last one and the "Angel" episode.

Buffy was my "closet" show. Only my closest friends knew I watched it.

Posted by: JimSpence

Just saw the Reprise episode of Angel with Willow

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
where she restores Angel's soul

and I think that if Allison is available, Joss should start a series about her. It could be interesting.

Posted by: gerbil42

Reprise? or Orpheus?

I think Orpheus was the episode that aired most recently (this weekend on WB) and had

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Willow coming to LA at the request of Fred to "shove a soul up Angelus's ass", I think were Faith's words.

I really think another spin-off with the Willow and Spike characters would be fun to watch.

Posted by: Jonathan_S

quote:
And The Musical is the best episode of any show ever done.

But to really appreciate it you need to watch it in order with the rest of the season. It really does tie in with the season arc. Which is one reason it is so good.

Posted by: ThreeSoFar

quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan_S
But to really appreciate it you need to watch it in order with the rest of the season. It really does tie in with the season arc. Which is one reason it is so good.

OK. Very true. Best episode, but must be taken en toto with the series to appreciate that.

Posted by: LoadStar

Actually, I watched the musical episode as my very first episode, and I found it to be a good episode to introduce new viewers to. From that episode, you got the idea of what Giles was, what was going on between Willow and Tara, who Dawn was, what the Magic Box was, etc., etc.

True, there wasn't a lot of background there, but I quickly got the idea of the whole series from that one, and as a result went back and watched the series from season 1 onward.

Posted by: Doh

I also liked S1 (not as much as S2, but definitely enough to make it worthwhile to start there).

The one suggestion I'd make is, if you have netflix, try renting through them because IIRC, they made some edits for syndication that, while they don't change anything critical, take away some of the really good throwaway lines. (And that goes double for the musical).

I thought the person you were talking about (who appeared in the pilot and then in Angel) was

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Doyle, but I guess he shows up later.

Posted by: AJRitz

quote:
Originally posted by Doh
I thought the person you were talking about (who appeared in the pilot and then in Angel) was
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Doyle, but I guess he shows up later.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Doyle never actually appeared on Buffy. There's a Doyle-like character named Whistler, who Joss wanted to be in Angel. But the actor who played Whistler wasn't available, so he created the Doyle character.

Posted by: dansee

quote:
Originally posted by AJRitz
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Doyle never actually appeared on Buffy. There's a Doyle-like character named Whistler, who Joss wanted to be in Angel. But the actor who played Whistler wasn't available, so he created the Doyle character.

Damn that Ted Danson!! He got Dax, too!

Posted by: Doh

Thanks for pointing that out AJ.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Do I lose fan points for getting them confused, or get them for recognizing their essential one-ness. ;)

Posted by: AJRitz

You're welcome.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Ever since I heard that Doyle was supposed to have been Whistler, I've been cursing Ted Danson and that Becker schlock. It would have been great to have the continuity that Whistler would have provided - and I would have liked to have seen that character developed more. Oh well. Maybe he could become a key character in a future Angel movie? (A guy can dream, can't he?)

Posted by: JimSpence

quote:
Originally posted by gerbil42
Reprise? or Orpheus?

I think Orpheus was the episode that aired most recently (this weekend on WB) and had

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Willow coming to LA at the request of Fred to "shove a soul up Angelus's ass", I think were Faith's words.

I really think another spin-off with the Willow and Spike characters would be fun to watch.

Yeah, I should have checked TVTome to make sure. But, I seem to remember Reprise as the title. I recorded the Sunday Noon showing on Fox (388) and it does say Reprise. But, it obviously wasn't.

Still want a Willow series. :)

Posted by: SparkleMotion

Ripper! Gimme the BBC Ripper series! :mad:

Posted by: AJRitz

I'm not sure how a Willow series would work. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Willow (in the sort of way that always made me wonder if my wife was going to start objecting to my watching my Buffy DVDs ;-). But I think her character works best as a sidekick. Now a series built around the new "Slayer Gang", with Willow, Dawn, and Giles as the newly reconstituted Watcher's Council - THAT would be awesome!

Posted by: SparkleMotion

Maybe Spike as the first vamp who's a watcher? Spoiler for "Tabula Rasa" 6x08

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I thought that might be where they were headed when Giles and "Randy" (Spike) seemed to sort of forge a father/son relationship while everyone had mystical amnesia.

Posted by: AJRitz

I don't think Spike has quite the temperment to be a Watcher - sort of the same reason I didn't include Xander in the Watcher crew. No patience or skill for research. Spike would probably be best continuing to do what Spike does best -

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
kicking ass and pining for Buffy. Maybe after a season or two, Dawn would be mature enough to rekindle her crush on Spike :-)

Posted by: SparkleMotion

Actually, it's his attitude that makes me think he'd breathe some new (after)life into the whole Watcher concept!

Kind of a punk Watcher who gets chastised by his charge(s) nearly as much as he advises and assists them in whaling on the baddies (his long life and contacts would make up for a lot of the research).

"This is not your daddy's Watcher" is kinda what I was going for. But it'll never happen anyway.

Posted by: DreadPirateRob

quote:
Originally posted by AJRitz
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Maybe after a season or two, Dawn would be mature enough to rekindle her crush on Spike :-)

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Have you seen Eurotrip? She's already mature enough, if you ask me.

Unless, of course, you were talking about emotional maturity.... :D

Posted by: AJRitz

Dread - I haven't seen Eurotrip, but I may have to now, on that recommendation :eek: :cool:

Posted by: jwjody

quote:
Originally posted by AJRitz
Dread - I haven't seen Eurotrip, but I may have to now, on that recommendation :eek: :cool:

I haven't seen Eurotrip but I've heard it would give me a whole new outlook on "Dawn"

J

Posted by: AJRitz

Hmmmmm - Eurotrip isn't on any of the movie channels yet (I just searched my TiVo), but it looks like it's a new release at Blockbuster - and there's a widescreen unrated version!:o :

Edited to add: I just checked Blockbuster on the web, and the unrated version includes on the DVD special features both a "Nude Scene Index" and an "Unrated Scene Index" - no word on whether or how often Dawnie appears in either of those extras though.

Posted by: balboa dave

quote:
Originally posted by dansee
Damn that Ted Danson!! He got Dax, too!

The character on Becker you're referring to played the bartender in the demon bar, not Whistler.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Whistler was a demon who was responsible for setting Angel on his path to redemption, and was played by Max Perlich, in "Becoming" on Buffy.

I didn't know Whistler was originally meant to be on Angel. I always felt this was one of the characters that deserved a bigger role, and I guess they tried. Doyle was OK, but Whistler would have been a lot better, IMHO.

Posted by: AJRitz

You are correct - I got those actors confused. I thought that WAS Max Perlich on Becker.

Posted by: dansee

quote:
Originally posted by AJRitz
You are correct - I got those actors confused. I thought that WAS Max Perlich on Becker.

Me too, AJ. So it goes...

I chalk it up to an unnatural dislike of Ted Danson. ;)

Posted by: JimSpence

Here you go.

Our little girl is growing up. Eurotrip (warning very long download)
Shorter download of Eurotrip

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