TiVo Community Forums Archives - WOW cable company hd DVR's

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

WOW cable company hd DVR's
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: mcwhlman

Along with DirecTV, I have wow internet and cable (formerly Americast) in Illinois. On their web site they're going to offer DVR's as well as HD-DVR's using scientific-Atlanta boxes. I was just wondering if anybody's ever hear on it. On their FAQs about it one question is: can I recorded HD content on my DVR. Answer YES! Unlike many cable companies, WOW! will carry HD-DVRs as well as standard DVRs. Many cable companies only offer standard DVRs and customers cannot record and playback high definition content with these DVRs. WOW! realizes that customers with HDTV should have the ability to record and playback programs delivered in HD so we will be offering two types of DVR – one for those customers with HD and one for customers with standard television. It also allows a picture-in-picture and up to 1 hour of paused live TV. It's available in Ohio and coming to Illinois and Michigan. Just curious if anybody's ever of it.

Posted by: flemingljr

I think Time Warner offers an HD DVR in selected areas.

Posted by: Alexander

I learned the hard way that just because it's a DVR, doesn't mean I'll use it like a TiVo. Quite surprising, really -- I mean, all I really want to do is record an play back HD, right? Well, you'd be amazed by just how braindead some of the interfaces are on these boxes, not to mention the convenience of the Season Pass.

Posted by: Chris Gerhard

The avsforums HDTV recorder section should have information about the Scientific Atlanta DVR. Get the model number and head over there. The forum can be accessed from the top of this screen under forums. From what I have read, don't expect the DVR to be very good but given time it could get better.

Chris

Posted by: bkdtv

Yes, I use it. I have used it for some time now.

The functionality is not even remotely comparable to a Tivo. As far as available DVRs are concerned, I would the functionality as follows:

Tivos
Moxi / ReplayTV
UltimateTV
Dish Network
Scientific Atlanta
Motorola

The dual-tuner Scientific Atlanta 8000HD (same model used by WOW) can record two HD programs at once. The typical configuration includes a 160Gb drive for 20 hours of HDTV recording. The box is available with DVI and Firewire outputs, but neither of those will be enabled before August/September, so users are limited to component output for now. Like the HD Tivo, it doesn't offer simultaneous HD and SD output.

The SA8000HD doesn't offer season passes, wishlists, search by title, or suggestions. It doesn't offer any sort of search functionality to find programs. It does have pause and instant replay for live TV and recordings, but doesn't have 30-second skip for commercials. It doesn't have the Tivo's auto-skipback (time compensation) feature on fast forward and rewind. It doesn't have a 60x fast forward speed -- the maximum is 32x -- and these DVR functions aren't as responsive as they are on the Tivo. It has a trickplay progress bar like the Tivo, which shows you where you are in the program or recording, but it doesn't have skip marks, nor does it let you skip ahead in increments.

Recording setup is similar to the Dish Network DVRs. You schedule recordings by selecting programs from the guide, which sets the DVR to record that timeslot either once or every week, depending on what you select. If you set it to record every week, it records that slot regardless of whether the program is actually showing that week. You can also manually schedule recordings for a specific date, or weekly recordings with day, daily, and Mon-Fri options; you can schedule a manual recording for a specific program up to two weeks in advance.

It does give you the option to only keep a certain number of recordings for a weekly timer (i.e. keep last two recordings for Sunday 9pm-10pm time slot), and you can choose to keep a manual recording for one-week, two-weeks, or until manual deletion. But it won't automatically delete older recordings when space is needed for new recordings. If you run out of space, the box ceases to function correctly. Nor does the SA8000HD indicate how much recording capacity is left.

The SA8000HD won't let you hide any channels from the guide, as you can on the Tivo, nor does it offer a favorites list you can display on the screen. It does offer seven days of guide information in most markets. You can list currently showing programs by name, but again, there is no search functionality of any kind.

The PIP window is only supported in the center 4:3 part of a 16:9 HD screen making it virtually worthless. Picture quality on HD channels is also substandard unless your cable company is using one of the latest versions of the SA software (SR1.1) with an improved ATI driver.

As with other cable HDTV DVRs, the best feature is cost. It typically costs only $9.99 to $15.00/mo to lease -- which includes the DVR fee -- depending on your cable company. You could lease it from Comcast for twelve years and you'd still spend less than cost of the HDTV DirecTivo ($1000 + $5/mo). Moreover, you can swap out this box for their next-generation HDTV DVR (when available) -- cable companies typically charge $0-$30 to upgrade to a newer box. This is key, because this product is really only an interim solution for the likes of Charter and Comcast until more Tivo-like HDTV DVRs (ex: Moxi) are widely deployed in 2005 and 2006.

Scientific Atlanta has also announced new software with true name-based episode recording for this HDTV DVR, including first-run episode support when used in conjunction with a first-run flag from Tribune. The new software also displays the amount of recording space left, and will delete older recordings to make space for new ones. It also allows one to skip ahead in 15 minute increments.

Only Time Warner South Carolina is currently known to have deployed this new software with full support for first-run only episode recording. Time Warner Austin and Time Warner New York (mid) are also known to have deployed this software on the 8000HD, but currently without the first-run episode support.

Posted by: midas

As long as you're happy with a typical VCR that happens to record to a hard drive instead of tape you'll be fine. It's not a Tivo, that's for sure. Also make sure you check all the options. Some of the earlier SA boxes had very small hard drives (80GB).

Posted by: PugFan

Comcast offers a Motorola HD DVR.....

Posted by: bkdtv

quote:
Comcast offers a Motorola HD DVR.....

The Motorola 6208 used by Comcast is the only HDTV DVR worse than the Scientific Atlanta model... :)

That said, Comcast has announced the plan to deploy the Tivo-like Moxi DVR in the next year. They've placed an initial order for 40,000 of 'em. You can read more on the Moxi right here.

Posted by: brahamt

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv

As with other cable HDTV DVRs, the best feature is cost. It typically costs only $9.99 to $15.00/mo to lease -- which includes the DVR fee -- depending on your cable company. You could lease it from Comcast for twelve years and you'd still spend less than cost of the HDTV DirecTivo ($1000 + $5/mo). Moreover, you can swap out this box for their next-generation HDTV DVR (when available) -- cable companies typically charge $0-$30 to upgrade to a newer box. This is key, because this product is really only an interim solution for the likes of Charter and Comcast until more Tivo-like HDTV DVRs (ex: Moxi) are widely deployed in 2005 and 2006.

I think you hit it on the head here. And upgrading makes it even more attractive. On the other side of the equation, some of us bought lifetime Tivo and don't have to spend the $5/month for Directv/Tivo combination. I believe that if you have the highest level of service on DTV, Tivo is free also.

All of that said, if something is limited, I don't want it. Sure the Tivo has some limitations, but no more so that I had with an SD Tivo. For me, and this is my opinion, cable has worse service, less selection, weaker hardware, and has issues that frankly are worse than the occasional rain fade. Every time cable tries to sell me something, I always tell them the match what I got at an equal price. That usually ends the conversation.

Of course, when Moxi becomes real (and by that I mean generally available), I might be singing a new song. I doubt it though.

Posted by: GoodSpike

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
The Motorola 6208 used by Comcast is the only HDTV DVR worse than the Scientific Atlanta model... :)

Do you have any specifics? I have both DirecTV and Comcast right now, but they don't offer the Moto DVR yet. The Moto HD box sucks in that you have to remember to turn off the box prior to switching inputs on your TV, otherwise it creates HDCP errors that require that you cycle the box on and off a few times (or reboot) to get the picture back. That was the result of a software "upgrade" they did about a week after I got the box.

Posted by: PugFan

I experience the same issues with my Comcast HD Motorola box.....it does stink.....There are a few people that have them in my area (not available to me yet) and I have heard no complaints, yet. Then again they are not used to TiVo either.....

Posted by: bkdtv

GoodSpike,

quote:
Do you have any specifics? I have both DirecTV and Comcast right now, but they don't offer the Moto DVR yet.

The current Motorola DCT6208 DVR has a single tuner to watch or record only one program at a time. It relies on timer-based base recording (no name-based recording, no season passes, no wishlists, no suggestions, etc), so it just records the time slot on the channel you set, regardless of whether the program is a first-run or a repeat, and regardless of whether the program is actually showing that day.

The 6208 has no progress bar to show where you are in a recording, 4x max fast forward and rewind speeds, no 30-sec skip for commercials, and no record/save from buffer. Did I mention that it only has 8-10 hours of HDTV recording capacity and 15 minutes of buffer time for rewind and instant replay? And that it has the same pathetic TVGuide interface that you have now on your Motorola STB?

You can take a look at the DCT6208 PVR users guide right here. The only real Tivo-like features it has are the ability to pause and instant replay on live programming. The only people who really like this box are those that have never used a Tivo, ReplayTV, or UltimateTV before. I suppose if you've been using a VCR for the past 10+ years, the box probably seems pretty nice -- after all, it works in basically the same way, but records HDTV and doesn't require any tape swapping. But there are so many misguided souls out there that think it's the best thing since sliced bread; having never used a DVR before, they don't realize what they are missing.

Quoting this 6208 user who's never had a Tivo or ReplayTV:

quote:
I am sorry but IMO, Tivo's UI is very overrated. What is important to me is the program content, not the UI. I view my UI less than .01% of the time.

quote:
But I think the main point is, who cares if the UI gets rave reviews, awards, Grammys, Oscars, Pulitizers, etc? It doesn't change the content that we want recorded, doesn't change how we view the show, doesn't change 99.9% of our viewing time.

quote:
If you feel the need to be entertained by little bells and whistles, you are a much simpler person than me.

Thankfully, for the rest of us who've actually used a Tivo, Comcast plans to deploy the next-generation dual-tuner Motorola 6412 platform this fall. In many markets, they are expected to use the Microsoft DVR software on this box -- comparable to the old UltimateTV software -- with name-based recording. This software won't do everything Tivo does, but at least it will offer name-based recording with season passes, a progress bar on screen, record/save from buffer, and much faster rewind and fast forward speeds. Being a dual-tuner DVR, it will also record two programs at once.

Posted by: GoodSpike

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
GoodSpike,

The current Motorola DCT6208 DVR has a single tuner to watch or record only one program at a time. It relies on timer-based base recording (no name-based recording, no season passes, no wishlists, no suggestions, etc), so it just records the time slot on the channel you set, regardless of whether the program is a first-run or a repeat, and regardless of whether the program is actually showing that day.

Thanks, not only have you convinced me, but you've made my MyHD card seem high-tech. ;)

Posted by: danielhart

quote:
The dual-tuner Scientific Atlanta 8000HD (same model used by WOW) can record two HD programs at once. The typical configuration includes a 160Gb drive for 20 hours of HDTV recording. The box is available with DVI and Firewire outputs, but neither of those will be enabled before August/September, so users are limited to component output for now.

a working firewire output would jump this box up several notches on the list, methinks....

daniel

Posted by: Runch Machine

See this thread for my experience with Time/Warner cable and the SA 8000HD. To make a long story short, we tried the cable option because there's was no HD-Tivo at the time I got my HDTV. We didn't like it despite the TW offer that made it free for 4 months. I canceled before the credit was even used up because of my increasing dissatisfaction with the cable hardware. I'm thrilled to have my HD-Tivo and be $900 poorer.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...704#post1746704

Posted by: Joe Q

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
Yes, I use it. I have used it for some time now.

The functionality is not even remotely comparable to a Tivo. As far as available DVRs are concerned, I would the functionality as follows:
Tivos

Moxi / ReplayTV

UltimateTV

Dish Network

Scientific Atlanta

Motorola

I was not aware that Replay or Ultimate were capable of recording High Def.

Having owned the DISH 921 for nearly 3 months,I would not include it in your list because it doesn;t work realiably at all.

The firewire enabled Moto and Sci ATL box are the winners. Just wish they were available for satellite.

Posted by: bkdtv

Joe Q,

Obviously ReplayTV and UltimateTV are not capable of high-definition. That list was in reference to DVR functionality.

That said, the UltimateTV efforts were folded into the Microsoft TV team, which produces STB and DVR software for various hardware platforms. This software does support HDTV, and will be used by some MSOs with the dual-tuner Motorola 6412 HDTV DVR platform. Comcast recently announced a licensing deal for this software.

quote:
The firewire enabled Moto and Sci ATL box are the winners. Just wish they were available for satellite.

If you didn't like the 921, I'm not sure you would like the SA8000HD. The software on my SA8000HD doesn't offer near the capabilities of the Dish 921 software. It has lower HD PQ and performs unreliably if you run low on disk space or schedule more than two recordings that conflict; it has no conflict management and does not delete old shows to make space for new ones. If you have three scheduled recordings that conflict for just one minute, it records none of them.

The various issues with the SA8000HD do vary depending on what version of the software your cable company uses, but neither Firewire nor DVI is enabled on any deployed SA8000HD.

Posted by: GoodSpike

I think he might have been referring to using Firewire to record to PC. I believe that's possible (and after what you reported regarding the Moto DVR I might look into that).

Posted by: bkdtv

The Firewire is active / functional on the Motorola DVR, and supports JVC HDTV D-VHS VCRs. You can also record local channel HDTV to your PC -- but not digital cable channels which are usually 5C flagged.

That's one of its few redeeming qualities.

Posted by: Joe Q

IN my post, I was referring to firewire for dumping the keeper high def recordings to a D-VHS.

A feature, BTW, that was promised to be activated on the 921 but in late April, it was leaked that DISH was never going to enable it.
It was confirmed by phone calls to the folks that report to Charlie.

The second batch of 921's were being shipped with tape over the firewire ports (I am dead serious) and DISH is rmanufacturing a new case so that the firewire ports on the board will be covered.
The advertizing PDF file for the features has been changd to remove firewire references. Many of us still have the original just so we can prove the "Big DISH lie"

Your comment about "if I did not like the 921 SW" gave me a chuckle.

1) I went through 3 921's in just a few months
2) They will randomly reboot leaving you with either a short recording or a split recording with a boot time gap
3) If you try to watch a movie that is being recorded, the recording is stopped
4) I bought it due to it's advertised firewire to be activated in April to coincide with OpenCable but obviously was lied to.
5) The OTA stations have no guide info. You need the newspaper's TV section and set up manual recordings.
6) Timers sometimes do not fire
7) The search function never worked
8) The manual highlights that you should put it in standby when not in use (it will wake for timers) to save wear on the disk drive but the SW for that is not ready and has not been downloaded. There are a lot of people who merrily put it in standby but all it does is turn the power light off

Need I go on as the list goes on and on? The 921 is so bad that DISH is already redesigning it in the form of the 942 (If I recall the model correctly) for release next year. This for a product that came out in late December

See http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73 for how many bug report there are.

This thing was such a POS that after being a happy DISH customer for 6 years, I switched to Directv in late April and bought an HD Directv TIVO.
I am VERY pleased now. I just miss being able to archive to D-VHS but that is being worked on.

DISH's motto of "Don't feed the pig" has a totally new meaning to me.

Joe

Posted by: Joe Q

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
The Firewire is active / functional on the Motorola DVR, and supports JVC HDTV D-VHS VCRs. You can also record local channel HDTV to your PC -- but not digital cable channels which are usually 5C flagged.

That's one of its few redeeming qualities.

As you know, The 5C flag supports copy once, copy never,etc.

Are you saying that your cable company has it set to copy never?

I have no problem with copy once as all I want is my own archive of the occasional gems that appear.

If it is set to copy never, then I find that worrysome since that may signal the direction they all are going.

Joe

Posted by: GoodSpike

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
The Firewire is active / functional on the Motorola DVR, and supports JVC HDTV D-VHS VCRs. You can also record local channel HDTV to your PC -- but not digital cable channels which are usually 5C flagged.

I only have limited basic (mainly broadcast channels and education channels), and don't really watch many "cable" channels on DirecTV, so not a problem.

Posted by: bkdtv

quote:
As you know, The 5C flag supports copy once, copy never,etc.

Are you saying that your cable company has it set to copy never?

No, most digital cable channels are flagged with 5C copy once -- but because PCs and Macs don't support 5C, they can't view or record this content. You can still record these channels with a JVC or Mits HDTV D-VHS VCR.

quote:
I only have limited basic (mainly broadcast channels and education channels), and don't really watch many "cable" channels on DirecTV, so not a problem.

In many markets, Comcast requires a subscription to digital cable before they will let you rent the DVR. You can still rent the non-DVR STB with Firewire for $5/mo with limited basic.

Posted by: Kamakzie

I was originally going to get a 921 when I was with DISH. I am so glad I switched to Directv and got the HD TiVo instead!!!!!!!

Posted by: GoodSpike

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
In many markets, Comcast requires a subscription to digital cable before they will let you rent the DVR. You can still rent the non-DVR STB with Firewire for $5/mo with limited basic.

That's what I'm doing now, except they brought one without active Firewire. I'll have to get them to change it if I look into recording via PC and it seems reasonably feasible.

Posted by: phaseshift

That's the very reason that I sold my Echostar stock. Its the reason I bought a DirectTV HD DVR (see, this thread is on topic!) Monday, which will be installed next week. Its the reason I will be quitting Dish Network after being a loyal customer for eight years.

Goodbye Charlie!

Posted by: tazzmission

I signed up for Dish to get a 921 on June 1st. Boy did I regret doing that now. That 921 is such a POS it is not even funny. Searching does not work, timers do not fire, OTA has no guide data. All around it is just not a TiVo. I was a DirecTV customer before I bought the 921 and went with Dish. I just canceled my account with Dish and am waiting to see if I will have to pay the $240 early cancelation fee. I am having DirecTV reinstalled Friday. I will have to wait about a week to get an HR10-250 from my dealer/installer, but that is fine with me. My dealer/installer is working with Dish to make sure I don't have to pay anything to cancel since I have had nothing but problems with the 921 from day one.

Posted by: mgoddard11

I had a 921 for 5 months and just sold it and switched to directv hdtivo. The reason I went with the 921 was because they were going to support dumping HD content through firewire to a d-vhs deck. Their decision to drop support of that feature really ticked me off and I made it very clear to them that was my main reason for leaving dish network. In my opinion that was a clear case of deceptive advertising.

Posted by: tazzmission

That is a concern for some. Not me. But it is still not right for them to flat out lie about the firewire thing. The 921 i have simple does not work how it is supposed to work. It is a buggy device, and Dish is going to replace it with the 942 next year.

Did they make you pay the $240 fee to cancel?