TiVo Community Forums Archives - Monk - "Mr. Monk Takes Manhattan" - Ep. 1 - 6/18/04

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Monk - "Mr. Monk Takes Manhattan" - Ep. 1 - 6/18/04 - *SPOILERS*
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Posted by: Inundated

Here's your thread for talk about tonight's season premiere of "Monk" on USA Network (10 PM/9 PM CT)...

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

I'm so excited. I mentioned this elsewhere, but having a premier of Joe Schmo and Monk in one week may, in fact, cause heart stoppage due to excitement for me.

(By the way, Inundated and others who are sort of new to the show, feel free to ask questions regarding Monk's wife following the show. I'm pretty sure this episode will be heavy on that story line, so it might leave you a bit confused.)

Posted by: Inundated

Well, I saw the episodes with Dale the Whale, and that explained at least some of it. But I am sure there will be a few more unanswered questions about Trudy after tonight!

And oddly enough, Ang... Monk and Joe Schmo 2 are going up against each other tonight! The newly added repeat of JS2's first show will air tonight at 10 PM ET...at the same time as the Monk season premiere. Thank goodness this is cable, and both shows repeat frequently!

Posted by: trainman

I captioned this episode, and there were a few things in the script that didn't make the actual episode, all from the portion of the show taking place in Times Square...

[*] You see Monk tentatively attempting to hail a cab during the montage; in the script, the same cab driver from the beginning and end of the episode actually stops, but then realizes it's Monk and drives off.

[*] Monk tells a Con Edison employee that one of the light bulbs in one of the advertising signs is burned out.

[*] In the 3-card monte sequence, Monk explains that he can tell which one is the queen because he can see the tiny crease in one corner. (I agree with that being cut, since it's more fun to imagine that Monk is able to follow the dealer's sleight-of-hand.)

By the way, although much of this episode was obviously filmed on location in New York, at least some of it was filmed in L.A., including the restaurant interiors...at one point, you can see an L.A. city bus going by through the window. (Two orangish-yellow stripes instead of the one blue stripe that's on New York city buses. Yes, I have certain similarities to Monk.)

Posted by: JadeWolf07

I love Monk, but next week's episode looks outta control....A monkey AND Carmen Electra... :eek:

Posted by: LooseWiring

Hello, my name is Adrian Monk.

You killed my Trudy.

Prepare to die.

Sorry, had to say it. The six fingered man made me do it.

Posted by: porges

quote:
Originally posted by trainman

[*] In the 3-card monte sequence, Monk explains that he can tell which one is the queen because he can see the tiny crease in one corner. (I agree with that being cut, since it's more fun to imagine that Monk is able to follow the dealer's sleight-of-hand.)

I've read that in some 3-card-monte setups the mark is supposed to notice a small crease on the card...but it's a trick, and following the crease will lose him the game. (Or he can't win, no matter what, but the crease makes him think he's got it beat so he'll bet.)

Posted by: ccouger

Did anybody else think the jackhammer sequence went on way too long? Even knowing they wanted to show that as a humorous irritant to Monk, after a few minutes I thought, why don't they just move farther down the street to talk? Annoying rather than funny. Same with the Rolex watch running gag, that's been so overdone in New York stories. I wish the writers had come up with something new and fresh instead.

I did like that they had all four of the main characters go to New York together. The characters play off each other so well. Surprised that they didn't insert at least a token mention of Sharona's son, as they usually do when he's not around in an episode. That's been one of the points I've liked in their consistancy, because most shows that feature a single mom tend to even forget and totally ignore the fact that she even has a kid after a while.

The six fingered man is a bit contrived, but, oh well. Lucky the guy had such an obvious identifying mark, or they'd really be out of luck!

Reading those bits that were cut, I would have liked that scene about the burned out bulb. They never explained who got what rooms? Or was this supposed to have happened all in one single day in New York?

Good to see Monk back, because even with some episode nit-picks, I think it's always a fun show to watch.

Posted by: Inundated

quote:
Originally posted by ccouger
Did anybody else think the jackhammer sequence went on way too long? Even knowing they wanted to show that as a humorous irritant to Monk, after a few minutes I thought, why don't they just move farther down the street to talk? Annoying rather than funny. Same with the Rolex watch running gag, that's been so overdone in New York stories. I wish the writers had come up with something new and fresh instead.

Agreed. I think they felt the need to show Disher as being this "easy mark", but they could have gone a different direction with that.

Disher's character confuses me. He doesn't seem to be terribly good at his job, frankly...he's almost a wide-eyed kid helping "Daddy" solve cases (and this isn't even a direct result of his interaction with Monk). They had the one episode last year where Disher basically ran the show from the police standpoint - the one where his mother was being hoodwinked by the guy after the gold...but it seemed a bit contrived, and Disher is kind of over-excitable for a cop. ;)

quote:
That's been one of the points I've liked in their consistancy, because most shows that feature a single mom tend to even forget and totally ignore the fact that she even has a kid after a while.

If I remember right, Sharona didn't even talk to him on the phone during the show. I'm guessing that's an oversight...maybe there was just too much else going on.

quote:
The six fingered man is a bit contrived, but, oh well. Lucky the guy had such an obvious identifying mark, or they'd really be out of luck!

Agreed...a bit contrived, but maybe a silent homage to the "one armed man" of "The Fugitive"! The problem with making our suspect a "six fingered man" is that Monk could probably spot a man with six fingers from a mile away, and of course, if he's caught and brought to justice, that radically changes both Monk and the show.

quote:
Good to see Monk back, because even with some episode nit-picks, I think it's always a fun show to watch.

Definitely. We're picking at minor nits here...and as I've said before, it doesn't really bother me. I'm not watching the show because I'm keeping track of continuity or believability.

Posted by: Jon J

It was good to see "Fearless" back as a cop again. :up:

Posted by: MitchO

quote:
Originally posted by LooseWiring
Hello, my name is Adrian Monk.

You killed my Trudy.

Prepare to die.

Sorry, had to say it. The six fingered man made me do it.

I knew someone would. Heck, if it wasn't said by now, i would have.

I have some nitpicks about the episode, as everyone, but also as everyone i'm just glad to have the show back so I'll just enjoy the fun that is Monk.

One thing i will nitpick tho ... if you were someone trying to keep their identity a secret, and met a person in the dark so they couldn't see you, and you had, i dunno, SIX FINGERS ON YOUR RIGHT HAND, wouldn't you go out of your way to make sure they DIDNT see that ridiculously damning detail? :rolleyes:

Posted by: hawkamer

quote:
Originally posted by ccouger
Did anybody else think the jackhammer sequence went on way too long? Even knowing they wanted to show that as a humorous irritant to Monk, after a few minutes I thought, why don't they just move farther down the street to talk? Annoying rather than funny.

Double agreed. That little gag went on waaaayyyy too long. I can't imagine that Tony Shalhoub and Ted Levine were pleased that an off sequence made it in to the final cut.

Posted by: boywaja

I think that if they'd done it any less the jackhammer would have been a stupid trite overused device. Instead the beat the joke into the ground and kept pounding on it until you it was so ludicious you couldn't help laughing. Sure, I couldn't help saying, 'god, that was dumb.' But it was damn funny also.

On the subject of Disher, ever since Dale the Whale called him Stoddlemeyer's cabana boy, I cant quite help but be amused by dishers inanity.

Posted by: mrcoaster

My girlfriend and I watched the ep this evening. Our big complaint of the episode was (yes) - the overlong segment with the jackhammer. Ok, we get it...he can't finish the sentence because of the jackhammer. Amusing at first, but we got annoyed with it by the end. It reminded me of the last ep from the last run when Monk couldn't finish the test because of the pencils. It just went on and on and on....we finally just FF past that part.

Love the show, but there are a few moments that do go on a bit too long.

We enjoyed most of the rest of the ep though. Always good to see Monk back in action.

Posted by: Graymalkin

I love the show, but they made Disher out to be a real maroon in this one. He's not that gullible. And the jackhammer scene went on for about three interruptions too many.

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

quote:
Did anybody else think the jackhammer sequence went on way too long? Even knowing they wanted to show that as a humorous irritant to Monk, after a few minutes I thought, why don't they just move farther down the street to talk? Annoying rather than funny.

I'm starting to sense a pattern here with these "gags" that go on a little too long, and I think there's a reason for them.

As we've all noticed, they tend to be just annoying and cumbersome as gags. But I don't think they're really gags at all, but rather an attempt to get viewers, who've never been in that position, to know how it feels to have something happen over and over and over again until it gets INCREDIBLY irritating.

That's what happens with an OCD brain. It gets stuck on something until you just literally want to shout and make it stop.

Just a theory.

Most season openers are kind of weak, so I didn't mind so much that this one was (and has been panned by several critics-who also love the show but didn't care for this episode.)

I was very glad to see him get to the point where he cried over Trudy. I was wondering what it'd take to push him over that edge, and it's quite consistent with people who try and control their environments to the nth degree after a death.

Also, more and more, I'm seeing this show parody other crime shows. I actually think that's pretty funny.

Posted by: Inundated

quote:
Originally posted by YCantAngieRead
That's what happens with an OCD brain. It gets stuck on something until you just literally want to shout and make it stop.

Just a theory.

And an interesting one nonetheless. Like everyone, I thought the jackhammer thing went on too long, but it wasn't QUITE as bad as the "pencil play" when Monk was trying to take his test to return to the force. THAT was painful to watch!

Posted by: jschuur

I thought the jackhammer scene was just right. Get over yourselves if you're complaining about this!

select-play-select-3-0-select!

Posted by: boywaja

quote:
Originally posted by jschuur
I thought the jackhammer scene was just right. Get over yourselves if you're complaining about this!

select-play-select-3-0-select!

yep, I was just going to mention, that Monk test in the Granny episode had me hitting 30 second skip like mad. First it made no sense that they would say, ok your handicap allows you back on the force, but only if you take this test that you cant pass due to your handicap. The Americans with Disabilities Act would likely require that test be given with the assistance of Sharona or that it be given in another form. Obviously they needed a way for him not to get this job back, but that wasn't a good way.

All in all, Monk goes to NY had some great laugh out loud moments.

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

quote:
And an interesting one nonetheless. Like everyone, I thought the jackhammer thing went on too long, but it wasn't QUITE as bad as the "pencil play" when Monk was trying to take his test to return to the force. THAT was painful to watch!

That's the one that got me noodling over the theory. I'm a diagnosed OCD sufferer, and that sequence was EXACTLY like what goes on in my head frequently.

And believe me, the frustration people felt at these scenes was NOTHING compared the frustration I feel, say, when I'm trying to go to sleep and a thirty second scene from my life keeps playing over and over and over again.

Posted by: appleye1

quote:
Originally posted by YCantAngieRead
That's what happens with an OCD brain. It gets stuck on something until you just literally want to shout and make it stop.

The thing that bugged me most about the jackhammer scene was not Monk's behavior, which I agree was typical for an OCD sufferer, but rather Stottlemeyer's response to it. After about 3 repetitions I would have finished Monk's sentence for him, or at least dragged him down the street so he could finish it. I think Stottlemeyer would have done the same.

We know the show is good, even though it's not always perfect, so we're going to watch it regardless. And it was a season opener, which often attracts new viewers, and as such did a pretty good job of introducing the new viewer to Monk. You got an overview of his behavior and his history, with a little bit of his detective brilliance thrown in. Maybe that's all the writers were aiming for.

Posted by: Colleen

Trudy has a son! Was she married before? I didnt know that.
I had not seen so many of last season shows- I hadn't seen the one with "the Whale" so I'm glad they had the marathon or the new season would have been a mystery to me.

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

When she said Trudy, she meant Sharona. Trudy and Monk never had any children.

quote:
After about 3 repetitions I would have finished Monk's sentence for him, or at least dragged him down the street so he could finish it. I think Stottlemeyer would have done the same.

Actually, this part of the scene I agree with you. Although I just kind of took it as a sign that Stottlemeyer has a boatload more patience with Monk than he did at the beginning of the series.

Posted by: murgatroyd

quote:
Originally posted by LooseWiring
Hello, my name is Adrian Monk.

You killed my Trudy.

Prepare to die.

Sorry, had to say it. The six fingered man made me do it.

Don't apologize. You weren't the only one thinking it, just the first to post.

Jan

Posted by: murgatroyd

This episode really points up one of the things that drive me nuts about the show. Don't get me wrong, I love the cast, but the writing doesn't do them justice.

I find it really hard to believe that Monk was ever a cop. I agree with the earlier complaints about Disher, too.

Sure, Monk has gone over the edge and can't function but we never get to see glimmers of the person that he was before Trudy was killed.

There's no way that any cop would not recognize the street hustle with the card dealer. I could see a cop faking that he was a yokel from the sticks and freaking out a dealer by being able always to spot the queen, but Tony S. often plays as if Monk has been mind-wiped and everything in the world is completely new to him.

The scene at the R. Plaza skating rink seemed more like real OCD would be, where he fixates on the girl with the missing glove (red gloves, really eye-catching, must be especially annoying).

It's clear that they've got their formula and that's what they're going to do, but I wish they would tone it down a little. Some of the cleanliness gags are played WAY over the top, like the busboy thing. They'd be funnier if they were ratcheted back a couple of notches, IMHO.

Jan

Posted by: kmccbf

Monk was supposed to be some what disoriented when he did the street hustle, which would be a good reason for him not catching on. I had problems with this scene because the hustle was done wrong.

The hustler would not have stopped after two or three rounds, in fact he would have counted on the mark getting these right so that he would invest the real money. Then he would have had a bet going for around $100 dollars. At this point he would have "dropped" the queen while doing the shuffle, or "palmed" the queen while setting up the shuffle so that there was no way that the person could pick it, because it wasn't on the table in the first place. If force to show the other cards after the choice was made, a bad hustler would have run as this one did. A good one would have turned one card over while replacing the queen back on the table so that when he turned the 3rd card over it would be the queen.

I would have like to see this scene show this way so that it alerted views to the scam.

Posted by: pmyers

My wife and I really enjoy Monk, but this episode just didn't do it for us....especially that hard to watch jackhammer scene.

Posted by: Frank_M

I didn't like the way that Stottlemyre basically worked for Monk in this episode. The dynamics between the two is really one of the best things about the show, but they messed it up this episode. I'm completely ready to say it was just because of the change of venue and move on... but it bears watching.

Also... they made Disher way too much of a moron. One of thing about Monk that works is that Disher and Stottlemyre are good detectives.. but nothing when compared to Monk. If you devalue them, you in some ways make what Monk does less impressive.

Posted by: Zevida

I actually had to stop watching the episode during the jackhammer sequence. I lost any and all interest in finishing the episode at that moment. If I get some time I may go back and finish, but that was painful. Much too long and didn't make sense. It was completely obvious what Monk was going to say, anyone with him would have finished the sentence or walked further down the street before having a conversation. That was terrible.

I was flipping through Entertainment Weekly in the airport over the weekend and it gave this episode of Monk something like a D+ which was suprisingly, but now I see why.

Posted by: Crrink

Finish the episode, it's worth it for the scene in the hopital at the end....

Frank_M, regarding Stottlemyre working for Monk - I assumed that the amount of deference was because Monk was trying to find answers to his wife's murder. Usually Monk is trying to help the police solve a case - this case was very personal to Monk, so Stottlemyre was doing anything/everything he could to help.

That was my take on it, anyway.

Posted by: Frank_M

Agreed, Crrink. Which is why I said that I'm happy to chalk it up to the change in venue and the particular case they were working on. That being said, I do not think this particular dynamic works well... and I hope it's just a one-time thing.

Posted by: murgatroyd

quote:
Originally posted by kmccbf
Monk was supposed to be some what disoriented when he did the street hustle, which would be a good reason for him not catching on. I had problems with this scene because the hustle was done wrong.

The hustler would not have stopped after two or three rounds, in fact he would have counted on the mark getting these right so that he would invest the real money. Then he would have had a bet going for around $100 dollars. At this point he would have "dropped" the queen while doing the shuffle, or "palmed" the queen while setting up the shuffle so that there was no way that the person could pick it, because it wasn't on the table in the first place. If force to show the other cards after the choice was made, a bad hustler would have run as this one did. A good one would have turned one card over while replacing the queen back on the table so that when he turned the 3rd card over it would be the queen.

I would have like to see this scene show this way so that it alerted views to the scam.

Exactly -- but since Monk would be able to tell all the cards apart because of minor differences in the way they were bent, he would have no trouble following the switcheroo. Plus since he is a detective he would know all the stuff you just posted.

Jan

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Well, this show has almost lost me (in fact, during the jackhammer scene I almost gave up for good, and I'm still not sure I'll be back next week). At the beginning, it was about a brilliant detective with mental health issues and several people around him trying to cope with the mental health issues, most of them because he's such a brilliant detective. They were all recognizably human. But over time, the show has gotten goofier and goofier, abandoning characterization for behavior. I can't remember the last time I cared how a case turned out, and I care less and less about Monk (who has gone from tragic character to mass of glitches).

The show also has a disturbing habit of making its characters behave like complete morons for alleged comedic effect, most notably in this episode (whose premise was that none of these people have ever heard of New York City, except Sharona) and the Hollywood episode (whose premise was that none of these people have ever heard of Hollywood, except Sharona).

Posted by: ElVee

quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
Finish the episode, it's worth it for the scene in the hopital at the end....

The end of hospital scene bothered me. If that was me, I would not have left that guys side until he died. I'd be peppering him with as many questions as I could think of. They go through all this trouble to talk to this guy and then walk away after hearing about the six fingered man?

Maybe ask "Was Trudy the target or was she just a victim of wrong place/wrong time?".

Posted by: Crrink

I'm pretty sure the guy said he was hired specifically to kill Trudy.

Posted by: MitchO

Dale said that Trudy was the target at the end of last season.

Posted by: PeteEMT

My problem with the end scene was uprely technical,nitpicky. Shutting Off the Morphine pump doesn't take effect that quickly. :)

Otherwise, I thought this was a bad episode, it was like they are trying too hard to incorporate the OCD thing. It's went from a quirk to taking the front stage in the show even before the crime.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

quote:
Originally posted by PeteEMT
My problem with the end scene was uprely technical,nitpicky. Shutting Off the Morphine pump doesn't take effect that quickly.

I couldn't tell if the pain was from the morphine being turned off, or from seeing Monk's pain. I think he sincerely regretted the consequences of his action...

Posted by: Inundated

I think the producers saw their "gold mine" in throwing Monk into a situation where the city itself is basically set up to drive him into overdrive.

I'm hoping that once Monk is back on his home turf in San Francisco, it'll tone down a bit...I'm assuming the show isn't "moving" to NYC, so he'll have that comfort level. If this NYC stuff held up week to week, it'd drive US insane even more than it'd get to Monk!

The scene with the busboy was funny, but way too over the top. Monk may have his issues with cleanliness and people urinating in the subway, and it was funny that he spotted the guy in the restaurant where it all came together. But heck, Monk is a former cop...you'd think that even with all his OCD issues, he'd be able to handle the priorities of nailing a quadruple murder suspect over someone who whizzed in the subway! :D

Posted by: Hunter Green

The thing about the last scene, which redeemed the whole episode, was the incident with the morphine. Yes, Monk's humanity, and the tragedy of his life, is sometimes forgotten in the comical hijinks; this scene really brought it all back in a very effective and emotionally dense few lines.

But I agree, the suspenders of disbelief are starting to get saggy at times.

quote:
Originally posted by PeteEMT
My problem with the end scene was uprely technical,nitpicky. Shutting Off the Morphine pump doesn't take effect that quickly. :)

I thought we were seeing the realization and fear and dread and helplessness in his eyes, not (yet) the physical pain.

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

quote:
The end of hospital scene bothered me. If that was me, I would not have left that guys side until he died.

I think the point was that Monk knew he couldn't get any more out of him, and that he really wanted to hurt the guy. And then at the end he wanted to leave the guy with the thought that he killed a woman whose personality was so giving she would have turned the morphine back on if she were still alive.

Just my take, though. I was really moved to see Monk finally cry over Trudy at the end.

Posted by: Inundated

I don't know much about hospitals, but I wonder if even the momentary shut off of the morphine drip could have gotten Monk in trouble if someone saw him do it...

Then again, didn't he unplug someone's life support machine to plug in a vacuum?

Posted by: YCantAngieRead

I think Monk is shaping up to be more of a throw-back to all those less-that-serious cop shows of the 50's and 60's, like Dragnet. Not always realistic, but always fun.