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Viewing Quality
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Posted by: Ben7H

I think I'll soon be purchasing a new tivo, I just have a few questions. What viewing qualities are acceptable? I've heard different opinions. Some people watch nearly everything on Basic, while others can tolerate only Best. Any thoughts? Also, if somebody's watching something non-tivo on the tivo tv can I easily unhook it and attach it to another one or does that take a lot of effort or erase memory?

Thanks,
Ben

Posted by: feldon23

Basic, Medium, High, and Best all depend on the size of your TV and the picture quality of the source material. If you are watching analog cable/rabbit ears than higher quality recording is required.

You will have to experiment. And if you find that you need to record everything at a higher quality, you can always upgrade the hard drive inside your TIVo or add a 2nd drive. The 20, 30, 60 hour sizes refer to Basic quality. Best quality should be indistinguishable from pre-TiVo TV.

Moving a TiVo around is no problem, except you must unstick and move the infrared (IR) blaster if you have a cable or satellite box and then attach it to the cable/satellite box on the other television. If you are making a dramatic change in how the TiVo is used, such as going from a TV with rabbit ears to a TV with cable, cable box, or satellite box, then you need to perform the guided setup again (a 3-8 hour process) to completely reprogram the TiVo to change channels on the new TV. You don't lose your shows or settings.

Posted by: zeppster

I record most stuff at high. Best if there is a lot of movement. I have to delete things kind of quickly, but it's worth it to me. I'm not willing to sacrifice picture quality for more storage.

Quality over quantity.

Posted by: Russ Arcuri

A couple comments to augment what feldon23 already said.

First, I don't think "best" is indistinguishable from live tv; I see a difference with DirecTV... since my DirecTV receiver has to decode an MPEG2 stream and feed it to the TiVo, which then re-encodes it and decodes it for display. So there's an MPEG2 generational loss there, which is readily apparent in dark scenes or those with fast action. Despite all this, "Best" quality is pretty close to live quality, just not quite there.

Second, different people seem to have wildly different tolerances for MPEG artifacts. Therefore, even if your TV screen is the same size and the source material is the same quality as someone else's, you may find the picture perfectly acceptable at "Medium" record quality, while the other person might have to record everything on "Best" not to be annoyed. As feldon23 said, you'll just have to try it for yourself and decide.

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Russ Arcuri
Sony v2.0.1

Posted by: Gigabit

quote:
Originally posted by Russ Arcuri:
...different people seem to have wildly different tolerances for MPEG artifacts.

Definitely true, I can spot MPEG artifacts occasional on analog cable, without the TiVo inline, usually on the commercial breaks. The reports on the news networks like Headline News are often heavily artifacted.

I usually record on "high" though, I can tolerate it easily enough, but that's not to say that I can't easily point out the artifacting on even "best".

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Sony SVR-2000 with single 100GB Maxtor HD

[This message has been edited by Gigabit (edited 08-21-2001).]

Posted by: jsmeeker

I use medium, and it is OK for me. I have standard, analog cable as the source. Its pretty clean, but not perfect. Any noise/fuzz/static in the picture gets maginfied a great deal by the TiVo.

AS fars as artifacts go, I see lots of it during WWF when there is lots of action or fast cuts/edits that involve lots of flashing or pulsating lights. (so I see it all the time watching WWF). I suppose I could recrod at High or Best, but I can live with it. It's only wrestling. Although there is something to be said about seeing Stacy Keibler in all her glory... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Jeff

Sony SVR-2000
"Let the Tivolution be televised"

Posted by: MighTiVo

I think High os equivilent to DirectTV or Dish quality, Medium is still much better than VCR. You need Best if you want to avoid generational loss from recording something that is already MPEG, if you have noise in the Antenna signal, or if you want the "best" picture you can get. Best really doesn't introduce much compression artifacts at all.

I only use Basic for News and such were the video isn't that important. Basic really doesn't work well at all for anything over the air that isn't crystal clear.

Posted by: bostonte

I use Basic for everything. Keep in mind that the sound quality DOES NOT degrade along with the picture. It's not that I can't see artifacting -- I just don't find it a problem.

Honestly -- I see just as much artifacting on my "live non-TiVo" TV using my standard analog cable. Most of the cable networks appear to be storing/editing video in MPEG form and I can pick out artifacting easily.

The only real answer is to try it yourself. As I said, I don't have any problems or complaints with EVERYTHING at Basic. I recently moved the TiVo to a family member's house (moving to Canada - no TiVo) and they can't stand Basic. My picky family wants it to be exactly like live, but to have unlimited space. They don't seem to understand that if they trade a little quality, they get much more space.

If I get around to it, I will put in another drive. Look into that if you have a problem with Basic. It's easy and cheap (the drive is your only expense -- the rest is downloaded free software).

Posted by: ToddHealy

It's all quality Vs. quantity and you'll have to judge for yourself what kind of trade off is best.

Before I upgraded my 14 hour TiVo to 109 hours everything was recorded in basic mode. Pixelation was quite profound but it was watchable and 14 hours was already a little tight so better quality modes weren't an option. Post upgrade, everything is recorded in best mode and there is still room for at least 30 hours of programming.

The best advise I could give would be to buy the cheapest TiVo you can find, either a 14 or 20 hour unit, and add an extra drive. Doing this really added extra life to mine.

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Philips 108 hour SA
Philips DirecTiVo (soon to be hooked up)

Posted by: DMHinCO

I, like BostonTE above, use Basic for almost everything. I have DirecTV and get a superclear signal into my SA TiVo. Yes, I notice the compression artifacts, but they don't really bother me much. I notice it most when there is static (e.g., when the Daily Show has a segment where the reporter is in some supposedly far-off location and they introduce static to make it seem that way), when confetti flies around, or when the camera pans rapidly across a big group of people.

I do use higher quality when I am recording football or anything I want to transfer to videotape later, but that is not much.

Before I decided to receive my local channels via satellite, the OTA signals required at least Medium.

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David
I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There's a knob called 'brightness,' but it doesn't work. - Gallagher

Posted by: SleepyBob

And, yes, it really does depend on your individual signal/setup. I record everything at Basic and am pretty satisfied with the picture. My next door neighbor got a TiVo, and the picture was noticeably inferior to mine at Basic, so they record at Medium.

Whether the difference was due to the cable signal, splitters, the TiVo itself, the TV: who knows? Like everyone else has said, you actually have to try it, and see which setting makes you the happiest.

Posted by: Sir_whinealot

I have 3 TiVos in my house (mine, wifes, and kids) and utilize basic for everything on each one. As has been previously mentioned, fast action scenes can show some pixelization...but it's really not bad - very watchable.

If I'm recording something to save to the VCR I'll use a higher setting though. Other than that, it's always "basic" for me.

Posted by: Breacagan

I use Best for most sporting events and High for almost everything else off an analog cable feed. I have a pretty low tolerance for signal degradation, but unless I am sitting two feet from the TV, High is hard to distinguish from most cable feeds. Flipping back and forth between the source and the live TiVo signal will give you a good idea of just how much perceptible degradation there is. The key factors in your decision to use a particular compression level will be how much degradation you perceive and how much the perception of degradation interferes with your enjoyment of your favorite programs.

Sometimes MPEG artifacts look very cool, though! I recorded some Olympic whitewater sports on Medium last year, and it was just an amazing effect.

Posted by: Gordon

I use basic for everything on two Tivo's. Normal cable, non-digital. Can't tell difference from live.

Gordon

Posted by: cwerdna

quote:
Originally posted by Gordon:
I use basic for everything on two Tivo's. Normal cable, non-digital. Can't tell difference from live.

Gordon

Have you tried watching anything with water being sprayed, lots of motion, rapid transitions or lots of flashing? The artifacting gets REALLY bad.

My default is set to high, and I record most stuff in that, except for stuff I know has a lot of the above, which I record at best. For talk shows w/o much movement where the quality doesn't matter and I know I'll never archive to tape, I record at basic and sometimes medium.

Best to me is virtually indistinguishable from live. I've got a pretty clean (on most channels) analog cable feed.

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Sony hacked SA w/123 hours, 2.0.1-002-010